Fake plates as replacements

Hi,

I recently borrowed a CJ750 sidecar from a friend and parked it underground at my place overnight. It is registered in Shanghai with the atrociously expensive 沪A plates, which were gone when i came down in the morning. I don't know if they fell off the previous day while i was riding or if they got stolen during the night, but that's not really the point.

The point is that it's probably hopeless to try and get the legal plate replacements as these sidecar registrations are always a bit shady... so i bought a fake plate to replace the lost one. I picked it up last night and it looks perfect, i can't tell the difference and don't think anyone could from a normal distance.

I'm posting this to see what people think. I can't really see the harm in doing this, apart that some illegal scooter is now riding with the same number. The bike is still legal and registered with blue book and all, the plate is just a piece of metal right?

Really sorry to hear this. My guess is they were stolen, unfortunately. With plates in such high demand and at the price they're at, the theft is a rather common occurence and it's also a deterrent I would have to getting such A plates.

Along with that, you're correct in that it's a difficult process to try and replace the legal plates, and it may not be worth the hassle to bother, what with this being China and all. But the authentic registration book is the most important document, along with the license and fapiao. If the police stop you, they may be concerned why the license plate in the book doesn't match the plate, and they would suspect that either one is a fake. It's a lot harder to fake the blue book, and if they can prove it's genuine, they'd know that the plates are fake and then you could explain they were stolen. Who knows, the police might even help you get the originals back.

Both plates were lost? That would definite be on someone else's scooter. Have you tried apply a new replacement at authority? These things happen to 粤B, car owner too. They park outside, wake up the next morning, plates are gone, except a note with cell phone no. is left under windscreen wiper. Sorry your plates are kidnaped. :lol8: Cunning son of bxxch knew a new replacment plates cost money and hassles like long line of queue.

I think part of what Felix is saying here is that it's quite easy to obtain an exact duplicate of the plate that has been stolen or lost via "some dude", so why bother dealing with government bureaucracy when a small fee will get you set of shiny new plates that match your blue book. I would be interested to know why that's not a good solution?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Not intened to sound like a douchebag. Legit plates equal zero risk and worry. I read the OP post again, that was no the point for him.
There is scenoary that 2 cars, same model, same colour, 1 owner... I think you already know I'm trying to say... If it could fool the p...., it would fool the friend.:lol8:

Interesting topic. I'm surprised no one has raised it before, directly.

Four types of "fake" plates:

1) a fake plate on an unregistered bike;
2) a fake plate on a registered bike that doesn't match the green/blue books;
3) a "remanufactured" plate that matches the green/blue books of a registered bike; and,
4) duplicated plates & books on an otherwise unregistered bike.

I've wondered what would happen if someone swiped my legal A plates off one of my bikes. I asked the Traffic Management Bureau and was told that they can be replaced without too much difficulty (speaking in relative terms). But I agree with Felix that a sidecar's "legal" plate can be dodgy or, worse, you can end up with a counter-guy who thinks it is time to de-register the sidecar.

Re the 1st type - no comment.

Re the 2nd type - I'd be pretty nervous explaining to a cop why my plate doesn't match my legal blue book. I think I'd prefer to ride without a plate until I had it replaced, and more easily explain that my plate was stolen and I am awaiting replacement.

Re the 3rd type - A remanufactured plate from "some dude" seems the best option, IMHO, as they are cheap and a hell of a lot easier than dealing with the bureaucracy. Just yesterday, though, we received the new plates for our little Yamaha 125 and we noticed that the new A plates have a little security tag on them. Give it a few weeks, however, and these tags will likely also be replicated.

Re the 4th type - The one thing that scares me, living in the land of traffic cameras every few hundred meters, is someone duplicating my plate number and using it on the same type/color of bike. I'm hit up for all of the traffic violations - and I can't really think of how one would argue out of it. Duplicate plates/regs are amazingly common, because the police rarely check the VIN/Engine numbers too closely during a regular traffic stop/roadblock.

Not that I'd ever advocate breaking any laws, but if my plates were stolen, I'd seriously consider contacting "some dude" to help me out - I've heard that the charge is about 100 rmb for a plate made-to-order. But that's just gossip, as I've never actually done it. Yeah, that's my story & I'm stickin to it!

On my first bike the rear plate fell off and I was riding around on an otherwise registered bike, I went to the Local Gong An traffic department, took a few weeks but my new plates showed up and they helped my fix them to the bike too. Modern plates have anti-piracy holographic swipes that can show up at night and specific bolts and a certain shade of yellow which is easy to get wrong. A few hundred yuan to reduce the chance of being stopped especially at night seems worth it if you live in a bigger city, although fakes might be a good idea as a temporary replacement in the interim.

I know that 'this is China' but why not just report the theft to cops (which would help with other issues like crime done using that plate) and get a copy of their report to show other cops if required while you wait for replacements?

Had rego plates ("A" Shanghai) stolen last year from one of my import big bore bikes and had the traffic police / vehicle managment bureau reissue new blue book, documents, plates within three days (they handed over totally new rego docs and a different number). Ride safe! Pal

ps: having reliable contacts helps a ton in PRC......

Felix,

Assuming that you fall into Lao Jia Huo's No.3 category -- a "remanufactured" plate that matches the green/blue books of a registered bike -- I think you and the bike's owner should be fine. If that's indeed what you've done, how on earth did you find someone who could make a plate to order? Oh, and what, pray tell, did this cost?

Anyway, make sure it's attached securely with the special "tamperproof" bolts, and then make sure you stress it up a bit so it no longer looks brand new.

(Jape, the reason I'd not recommend Felix go to the cops is the one that LJH mentioned: Since these vintage CJ750s do not meet China3 emissions standards and are no longer being plated here in Shanghai, there's a substantial risk that some desk jockey in the vehicle management bureau will decide it's time not to replace your plate to to deregister your bike, leaving you SOL.)

Now get that bike back to its owner and wash your hands of the problem!

Thanks for all the replies guys! To clear a few things up things:

- The front plate was still on the bike, that's why i'm not sure if i lost it or it was stolen. No bolt stays tight on a chinese bike very long...

- The fake plate is and exact copy with the same numbers as before, i got it from "some dude". It cost 350 and came with front and rear plates and even those special tamper-proof bolt covers with the 沪 symbol on them.

Getting the legal replacements would require getting a report of the theft from the police. I haven't done that because i don't want to draw attention to the bike or owner, especially as it's registered under someone's company. My friend says it's fully legal, but i don't know how legal is legal. I'm sure some numbers got changed on the frame at some point... As LJH said, going to the police out it might end up in someone saying this bike shouldn't be registered in the first place.

Two years ago the rear plate fell off my XTR250 and i went through the legal replacement process. It took two and a half months and required me to make two trips to nanjing (where it was registered) which is not even a fun ride.

Congrats, Felix. You've really dodged a bullet here, and the cost was reasonable. Can't see any reason why the bike's owner should not be fully satisfied with this outcome.

I concur - good strategy Felix.

Two more fen, although not directly related to your case ... Hebei plates are the common "fake plate" in Beijing. Those little bolt caps for the genuine Hebei plates are now issued with the first letter of the plate number, making it easy for the police to quickly check if a Hebei plate is fake. And the genuine caps are now made of a fragile tin, so trying to R&R them is difficult.

Jing plate bolt caps still only have the 京 character, as there are only "A" or "B" plates.

I've got transitional fake 沪C plates on my bike, and they will remain there until I'm fully legal and registered with genuine C plates by the end of this year when I sell the bike and purchase a new bike -- or sooner if all goes well with the licensing. The plates cost 300 RMB and they have the tamper-proof screws with the 沪 symbol on them also. I arranged for two packs of replacement screws from "some dude" just in case the original screws dislodged from the plate, as they did today on a rough ride.

As much as I can't stand doing this, the Shanghai plates are essential for getting fuel from the gas stations. Suspicions have proven correct now that even in the suburbs, they are refusing fuel for unplated bikes or those from out-of-province. Twice now, they have done a cursory check in the suburbs, seen a 沪C plate on my bike, and then proceeded to put fuel in. One night I even got saluted by two police officers at the gas station and then told I was a 'zhong guo tong', which is a compliment.

It might also be possible for "some dude" to have fake plates and registration booklet done up from some obscure province that is not adjacent to your current province. For example, they could do Hubei plates (咢A = Wuhan where I used to live).

One one hand, it's questionable as to how much use those plates would actually have, as even genuine out-of-province plates are useless once crossing the border out. They certainly wouldn't help for getting fuel. On the other hand, the cops wouldn't be able to tell if the out-of-province plate was fake or not, if it "originated" from several provinces over. Suppose you could always make up some BS about riding the bike over from Wuhan, which, in my case was actually a true story.

Actually when I was living in Wuhan, a local contact was able to procur a genuine registration booklet and genuine Hebei plates. He mixed it in with a genuine drivers license from Beijing. I have no idea how this all worked, but my colleague drove around a sidecar and actually showed me the documents and showed all the they had all the security features, etc. It cost a fortune, and the police in Wuhan always let him go because they had no idea how to handle something like this with documents from several provinces mixed together.

Here's a wee update:

I got pulled over by a cop yesterday around 10am on Xizang lu (big road), riding this same sidecar that now has the fake plates. He walked around to the back, had a look, walked back to the front and said OK, off you go.

Ace.

He shoots, he scores!

In some ways this is good news, because two former colleagues from Dalian have just accepted new teaching jobs here in Shanghers. And with the transfer, they are shipping their beloved motorcycle and sidecars to the local area. They have the Dalian license plates, that is 辽B which are about as good as junkyard metal around here. Still, they are in love with their Changjiang 750 piece of history and are shipping it down here no matter what, so it's pretty much useless trying to talk them out of it. What would you suggest people? Fake pates?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve_R

two former colleagues from Dalian have just accepted new teaching jobs here in Shanghers.

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Please give them my condolences. :icon10: If their bike is plated and legal in Dalian, can't they just ride around SH and take their chances? Worst case, they could keep it outside of town and enjoy it on the weekends.

After giving it some thought, if I lived in Shanghai and spent the big money for a legit plate, I would probably purchase the "some dude" plate and keep the real ones somewhere safe. If a cop was ever smart enough to tell the "some dude" plates were fake, I would pull out the real one and explain.

I have plates for my TGR, but never put them on because I only use it for enduro...they have some seals on them that kind of look like anti-counterfit markings, my car plate has them as well.

Cheers!
ChinaV

I just plated a bike with legal out-of-province plates (long story) ... and I am not making this up ... the plate number issued is VD-838. My Chinese buddy was thrilled that he acquired such a good number for me (the 838 part).

I feel kinda stupid riding around with "VD". Fake plates as replacements might be in the cards (e.g., FU-838), with the real ones hidden in the saddlebags.

Sigh - so much for looking cool on a tough cruiser.

Hi Steve,

What you're talking about is pretty different from what i've done. The bike i was riding already had a real shanghai registration, meaning even though the plate is fake, the numbers are still correct and match the real registration. If the police look up that registration they will find that it's real and it's in their system.

If your buddies buy fake shanghai plates to put on their bikes they might be able to ride around shanghai, but if a cop notices the plate is fake, or worst yet if they get into an accident, they may end up in very big trouble. I personally don't think it's worth the risk (that's why my CJ is rotting in my garage) but some people do it. Let's just say it's great until you get caught.

Virtually all of the CJ750s you see tooling around Shanghai these days are using Hubei plates (鄂), as Hubei is about the only province that still will plate them. (Is Hubei where the CJ was originally manufactured? Is this "grandfather treatment"?)

I just heard today that Shanghai has not yet ruled on whether the Jialing JH600B, the sidecar version of the JH600, can be legally plated here. So the seven or eight JH600Bs that have been purchased by Shanghai residents in the past year or so have all gone for plates from nearby cities in Zhejiang or Jiangsu. I'm not sure if MCM member Nostalgie is among these, or if he has Shanghai plates. What's interesting is that Shanghai has simply yet to issue a decision about the Jialing sidecar; it's not yet prohibited, yet neither is it approved, so it's in limbo -- but this means it's at least temporarily unplatable.

Steve, for what your Liaoning buddies are considering, it's probably best that they just keep their Liaoning 辽B plates, which, if legal, would be far, far preferable to any kind of fake plate, for the reasons Felix stated. If legal 鄂-plated CJs can tool around Shanghai without too much much hassle, it stands to reason that legal 辽-plated bikes will be tolerated too, especially if the riders are, ahem, ignorant foreigners. I'd suggest they not even consider garaging them in Shanghai's downtown.

cheers

Alright well I've suggested they keep their Dalian plates on the bikes when they arrive, but they are still adamant on tooling around downtown in the sidecars. I suppose we'll see what happens after a week or two of the school year underway but chances are the sidecars will make a home in the garage, or else they'll be taken out on weekends. My guess is the latter, despite one guy being adamant that he wnats to use it as a commuting tool.

I'm still trying to come to grips on why these sidecars are so popular with foreigners, especially when they get stuck in traffic and there are all the maintenance issues. But it's driving around a piece of history, and they love their sidecars, so if they want to drive in Shanghai, they'll figure out how things work soon enough

Re the JH600B - the same in Beijing (in limbo). Mine is legally plated in Hebei. I've heard a rumor (TIC - the land of rumors) that the reason is because of the messy situation with the 3-wheeled vehicles, intended as handicapped transportation, operating as illegal taxis. Something about the JH600B setting precedence for 3-wheeled vehicles getting plate approval. The only difference between the JH600 and the JH600B is the transmission gearing (the JH600B has 4 forward gears and 1 reverse) - everything else about the power train is the same, so it can't be an emissions thing (the JH600 is approved for plating). Or maybe 3-wheels have a higher emissions standard? I've heard that 4 wheels (cars) have to meet higher standards than motorcycles.

@ Steve re CJ popularity - there is a definite "cool" factor with the Indiana Jones CJs. But you are correct re "stuck in traffic" & "reliability". Outside the city, they are great fun (if you take spare parts and travel in packs). The rumor re plates on the CJs in Beijing is that it is better to use the genuine, expired plate (with books), than a fake plate.

I reckon your buddies will soon find out that a CJ is not an ideal commuting tool in a city like shanghai. I used to ride mine to work everyday in suzhou, it was a 10km ride with very little traffic. Here i wouldn't dream of it, even if i had plates. I did ride it to work once just to see, it took me 25mins whereas it only takes less than 10 on the ebike. Then again it depends where in shanghai they'll be and what their commute will be...

We're all working right downtown and they had planned on commuting with their CJs in the downtown area ... not the best idea I would think. Nonetheless, the idea of weekend rides to go tootling in the countryside sounds mighty appealing!

I was out for a weekend ride just recently, and found a seriers of CJ riders out for a spin on the backroad that parallels a long river out towards Zhejiang province. Given how small a world it is around here, it may have even been a MCM member!