Help my choose a China-bike in Australia!

Hey everyone,

I thought I would sign up here for some advice on buying a Chinese motorcycle in Aus as many of the dealers are a bit slow to respond or don't seem to give the the answers I am after. I am looking to buy a cheap bike to commute to work (usually sitting on 100km/h, 40km of highway, but its a parking lot during peak hour, I travel at odd hours, ie 3:30am or 11:30pm).

I will be using my tax return to buy a bike, and don't want to stretch too much into my own cash, budgeting maximum Au $5000 on the road, COULD stretch to $6000 if it was spectacular.
My needs;
* Able to sit on 100km/h without lots of aftermarket changes, just stock or BASIC mods that I could get done by the dealer.
* Reliable, enough to last me 2 years use possibly. I am an ex-cycle courier and have always done my own work, except scheduled servicing. Managed to get my old Hyosung 650 to last almost 350 000km before the camchain snapped!
* 'Spirited' riding up to 50km/h or so.

Currently looking at the following but need some help with information!
*Torino Terra 250 (Lifan LF250GY-7 watercooled SM). I asked Torino about Lifans quoted top speed of 100km/h and max power of 13kW. They replied that their version is slightly more powerful? and that the free dirt tyres would gear it higher, can you gear them with easily obtained sprockets enough to sit comfortably on 100?
$3995 on the road (with something about a 5 year warranty???)
http://liveimages.bikesales.com.au/b...7047941563.jpg

*Torino Terra 400 (Xing Yue XY400)
Currently $4999 ride away
Got great reviews from cycle torque.
http://www.cycletorque.com.au/images...400-2010-2.jpg

*Laro SPT350 (Unknown manufacturer, please tell me!)
MASSIVE 28L petrol tank, close to 20kW of power, looks hot, 2YR unlimited KM warranty.
Currently $5999 expensive! I could get a hyosung GT250 with 21kW for that price.
http://www.twowheelgarage.com.au/upl...aro_SPT350.jpg

*Sachs x-road 250
$4999
http://www.sachsbikes.com.au/images/xroad_main.jpg


*Megelli 250 s/r
new liquid cooled model $4999 for naked, $5499 for full body.
http://www.lotkon.com/images/7574/ba...cc-black_4.jpg
http://www.motorsportimporters.com.a..._inner_img.jpg

YES! liquid cooled 24.5 HP engine in the S AND R despite the importer only offering the aircooled naked version... I am wondering if the bike shop just put them in there? I saw pictures, definitely a watercooled engine in one of the nakeds.
Edit: some websites advertise the engine is 27hp??



If prices tip near $6000, I am tempted to just save my money and go back to Hyosung and buy another GT650, they come in white now! 59kW of v-twin rumble.

I would never pay those prices for any of the current Chinese motorcycles in production. Buy a nice second hand Japanese or Korean bike and enjoy it.

Just and example, the SPT350 should cost between $2500-$3500 AUD, you could buy one here in China from Regal Raptor for about $2200 AUD. If I was in Australia and could pick one up new for $2500, maybe worth it, but $5999 :eekers::eekers::eekers: Crikey!

Cheers!
ChinaV

WOW! for those kind of prices I'd be looking at some decent used Japanese bikes, and forget the Chinese bikes which aren't worth that kind of money. At this stage in their development cycle, the majority of Chinese branded motorcycles are still some considerable way from being anywhere near being equivalent to Japanese quality, aftersales & reliability.
I'd say that people buy Chinese branded bikes for their affordability over and above any other reason.

The only time I'd say "I'm stuck in China" is when I remember I can't get a proper bike. Anywhere else, a second hand beatup Japanese bike would beat most China bikes..

I would only consider the Torino Terra 250 at a price of $3k on the road (USD since I live in the US and that is about the max price I would pay for a new Chinese bike), so I would agree with the others about a Japanese used bike, or the 650 Hyosung since you said yours reached 350, 000 km (or was it 35, 000 km which is still fantastic?). The one bike you did not mention, and would be one to consider if it is available in Australia, is the Qingqi GY200 which is available around the world under different brand names. This bike is relatively low cost and is as reliable as the Suzuki DR200 because Qingqi is the OEM for Suzuki's under 250cc engines. If you can find one at a price less than the Lifan 250 mentioned, I would consider it.

http://arqinmotorcycles.150m.com/content/QM200GYBA.html

http://arqinmotorcycles.150m.com/content/QM200GYB.html

http://arqinmotorcycles.150m.com/content/QM200GY90.html

I am not sure if they are still in business, though...

These above are folk that enjoy and appreciate china-bikes telling you this too mate.

The Aus dollar is high and these bikes should be much cheaper but as always the dealers and importers have excuses why prices are so high - yet they rarely respond to emails about anything. I have asked a dozen of them all sorts of questions in last two years in searching for a decent 100 kph bike to replace my Kinlon. Only one response and that didn't answer my question! If any of those dealers has a good parts and spares and options base then all of the bikes will do what you want but not worth the money despite the superficial good looks of some.

I know that some dealers of the jap bikes are also crap for service but at least you can get a lot of parts, information and assistance for them elsewhere if your local blokes are shit. The 200ccchina-bikes for $2000 are worth the dosh simply because they are so cheap, thats the only reason! They work ok and are fixable and improvable to some extent but to get what you want, that extra bit of power and reliability, will never come from a 200 - so you have to go up to the market area you have already looked into above. You are caught in the fashion and learner end of the market there. Save up a bit more, I agree, get a jap bike.

Yes, my new China bike top money is about $2k USD delivered. Anything above that and you might as well buy used Japanese.

http://liveimages.bikesales.com.au/b...7047941563.jpg

I could pay 2500€ of this or the Sachs. I am cheap ass.

Wow, that prices no wonder they prefer offshore market than domestic.
By the way, isn't Sachs European?

http://www.motorcycles-manufacturers...torcycles.html
I read Sachs had engineers present for Madass design but that is about it.
The prices will come down probably when they dump all the leftovers in a year or two, as they did with the Kinlon for $1500!

1 USD = 6.49 CYN
1 AUD = 6.92 CYN

2,500 Australian dollars = 17,300.00 CYN
2,500 American dollars = 16,225.00 CYN

That should mean that an Australian dollar buys more from china not less. As dollars rise they increase imports as dollars fall import decrease if domestic options exist.

Imports into the USA are taxed less then 3% what are they taxed in Australia?

Also if the domestic market in china has been limited by changes in regulations, as the emissions controls have become stricter they then have only export of non-compliant models as a market, so the value of those models falls as the domestic market shrinks for them.

The Chinese make the most motorcycles and sell most of them domestically. However most of these look like export models and some were never offered for domestic sales.

I am wondering if Australia is in stagflation, no growth only inflation in prices, are the prices climbing on everything there? It’s big fear here in the US as less buy the suppliers raise prices to cover costs, it is called stagflation.

High prices on an import from a country that has lower costs….is not good. Higher prices should be only justified if domestically produced as it adds value to the domestic economy.

The Japanese manufacture here, they know that the economy of export markets is important as the sales into them.

TDf-REf Sachs was european being German but that was such a long time ago once they started to cull the 2 stroke engines in there bikes it was time that they were sold from what iv been told

Hey, I bought a Kinlon KBR200RT a few years back and have ridden it every day as a commuter.. 12,000klms on it, haven't had to touch it except for the front brake microswitch and a blown instrument globe. It starts every day, rides ok, is cheap as chips to run and if you can live with the limited off-road capability and top comfortable speed of 80kph, I'd recommend having a look at one of these. Depends how much you want to use it off-road tho.. they're not the best off the blacktop.

Dear EarSpear,

Greetings from China and welcome to the forum. Nice little bike there. There are a couple of members probably not too far from you with the same bike, and who have a ton of experience keeping it safe and on the road and modded/upgraded as necessary. Jape is legendary in this regard; the other member's name escapes me but Jape will know.

Good luck and please don't hesitate to post pix of the bike as well as the specific problems, as this always helps to jog members thoughts about possible fixes, etc.

cheers!

Thanks for the welcome, Euphonius.. Shanghai, hey? That'd be a long ride.. it's really good to get onboard with people from all parts of the world with a common interest, it does seem as though there are a few members who aren't too far away, maybe a little Oz adventure ride on the Chinese bangers is in order.. one day. Oh, I've already read a lot of Jape's posts.. and I'm sure I'll be picking the poor guys brains all the time for info and inspiration. Cheers!

Hi, bought a new XING YUE 400y (sold here as a TORINO) enduro ?, cost was $4500 with 12 months rego new, It does 100+Ks easily but could use a smaller rear sprocket for mostly hyway use. Although im happy with the performance (4 valve head,6 speed box,elec start alloy everything etc ) im far from happy with the assembly after arival in australia. It seems that they arive here as a CKD ,ie front end not fitted ,rear wheel not fitted,handle bars, controls, brakes,pillion pegs etc not fitted, then a couple of school drop outs do their best to nail them together, So far i have found ,No speedo cable HHMMM, miss matched bolts on fork clamps,miss matched screws holding on plastic tank covers, cracked speedo pod where bolts hold down unit, cross threded bolts in rear pillion handle grips, grease impregrated front and rear mud gards (white plastics) have tryed everything and will not clean off. took 6 weeks to get speedo cable from SYDNEY dealer and they still cant supply an owners manual of any type.
So the manufacturing seems OK but the final assembly in Sydney is rubbish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

1 USD = 6.49 CYN
1 AUD = 6.92 CYN

2,500 Australian dollars = 17,300.00 CYN
2,500 American dollars = 16,225.00 CYN

That should mean that an Australian dollar buys more from china not less. As dollars rise they increase imports as dollars fall import decrease if domestic options exist.

Imports into the USA are taxed less then 3% what are they taxed in Australia?

Also if the domestic market in china has been limited by changes in regulations, as the emissions controls have become stricter they then have only export of non-compliant models as a market, so the value of those models falls as the domestic market shrinks for them.

The Chinese make the most motorcycles and sell most of them domestically. However most of these look like export models and some were never offered for domestic sales.

I am wondering if Australia is in stagflation, no growth only inflation in prices, are the prices climbing on everything there? It’s big fear here in the US as less buy the suppliers raise prices to cover costs, it is called stagflation.

High prices on an import from a country that has lower costs….is not good. Higher prices should be only justified if domestically produced as it adds value to the domestic economy.

The Japanese manufacture here, they know that the economy of export markets is important as the sales into them.

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The Australian economy is going along just fine http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...418-1x6ac.html

The problem we have is a small population base.With only 22 million people our purchasing power is small we just can't buy the quantities the USA or Europe do.But I will take buying things more expensive ( I purchase most of my stuff on the net from overseas anyway) as opposed to being crammed in with to many people.

People complain about the huge disparity on prices compared to the States and it looks like middle men are/where getting good mark ups.

I don't know what the import tax is but I'm sure it far higher than 3% motorcycle retailers are complaining they make very little money on the sale of a motorcycle they make the money on spares and repairs.

Retailing Chinese motorcycles in Australia is fraught with danger for many reasons to many have come and gone another reason why I wouldn't buy a Chinese motorcycle the main reason they are crap.

Fried rice it probably wasn't the dealer who assembled the bike incorrectly more likely the Chinese.

ive seen the kinlon 200 that my mate is 100kg i think and it goes well it would climb a bike wall it geared for hills i think and 2000 bucks its got you 12months warrenty but it all comes down for whan do you want to do with it

As this is my first reply/posting I thought I'd introduce myself to hopefuly give my opinions some value, and serve as a warning to prospective buyers.
I am a Qualified Motorcycle Technician with almost 20 years experience working on all makes and models of Japanese and European motorcycles, I have worked extensively in Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki dealerships, and am greatly anoyed, angered and frankly scared for the safety of Australian riders due to the Chinese invasion.
Come on people don't be so bloody ignorant, these Chinese bikes are cheap for many bad reasons: poor design, poor reliability, poor performance, poor durability, poor build guality, poor fit & finish, poor quality materials, poor manufacturing and machining processes, etc etc etc! They are light years away from the pinacle of Japanese design and engineering!!!! Yes they are cheap, but you must ask "why" not just buy blind. I'd sooner buy a 30 year old used Japanese Motorcycle than a brand new Chinese built model. These bikes come standared with more faults than a fleet of Jap bikes will see in a lifetime of neglect and abuse, and it is down right wrong that our government regulators which are so tough on the major manufactures, making them recal a bike for the most miniscule slight imperfection, continue to allow this new garbage on our public roads. I am certain lives will be lost along with the many millions of dollars wasted by unsuspecting buyers in the first place. A comparable Chinese model (by basic specification only!) at $2000 represents far less value than a Japanese motorcycle at 10 times that cost. They are not nearly cheap enough for what you actualy get! The dealers who sell these brands and the importers are just looking to make a quick buck from the good retail margin these bikes have, I know first hand how many times this margin is later donated back to the Chinese bike Gods thru un-warrantied repairs and re-engineering at the dealer just to make these bikes work sufficiently to be handed over to their new owners.
You will hear comments saying that the Japanese bikes were the same when they were first built 60 odd years ago, however the Japanese had a goal to built their bikes to the best of their ability at that time, and many examples of those bikes are still running well, where as the Chinese in my opinion are purely building bikes to a price, at the expense of quality.
You won't see a 10mm hole for an 8mm bolt, or a gear lever with 2" of slop from brand new on a Jap bike!
For it to be "Good Value" it must also be a "Good Product" otherwise you are just trading price for quality (reliability, performance, safety etc) and they are not nearly cheap enought to represent anything like "good value"!
Many Motorcycle shops won't consider used Chinese bikes as trade-ins nor will their workshops touch them "more trouble than they are worth" is the usual response, "probably can't get parts" is another. In my experience correct parts are only available while that model bike is being produced, once the model is changed, or reolacced the spare parts also vanish!
They have little-to-no after sales support eg; Spare parts manuals or parts supply, Service manuals or even and accurate wiring diagram, there is no national technical service department to call upon for help, or extensive experienced dealer network. Please consider all the many reasons why the established manufacturers ask more for their product and know this; the dealer will almost always make less proffit selling a quality brand over the Chinese bike, so don't accuse them of being greedy for asking a highrer price!
If you still choose to buy a Chinese Motorcycle hopefuly it is now an informed decision, and with realistic expectations.
Please appreciate the time I have taken to share my views, I have nothing to gain from this other than the comfort brought by being able to educate the public somewhat on the too often un-told story of Chinese motorcycles.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

that is the most long winded rant iv ever reade but the simple fact is you pay little cash you get little back its how things are in life you want quality you have to fork out for it i would of gotten a Sinnis apache supermoto if i hadnt got my spanish bike for a very good deal, most people only buy chinese built bikes for a year then have there full license done so there is the markety for cheap bikes, you want rubbish you pay under £1000 you want something that will last 2 years + you have to pay more for it

Dear Japonly,

Thanks for taking the time to express your views in MCM.

I think if you spend much time in these threads you'd find that the vast majority of us who own, ride and wrench China bikes are pretty much in full agreement with you. Those of us who live in China have little choice in the matter because import duties and other restrictions make imported bikes almost impossibly expensive to own; we own China bikes because they are what are available. Those of us who live outside China and still buy these bikes do so for various reasons, but price is a big factor, along with perhaps a sense of pioneering or adventure. Those who bought Chinese thinking they were getting a "great deal" are actually few and far between, or have long since thrown in the towel.

Anyone who has done their homework by reading about any particular China bike here in MCM will have heard many honest and sometimes brutal assessments of the bikes' shortcomings, as well as, in some cases, their improvements over time.

Some of us dedicate a lot of effort to working with China's manufacturers to improve quality and service, but it's a long and thankless task that we do more out of necessity than choice. I'd rather ride my Jialing than not ride at all. It would not be my first choice of bike if I were living outside of China.

Bottom line: China bikes are a fact of life in most of the world now, including Australia. The same could be said for China's role in the Australian economy, for better or worse. You clearly are finding a way to deal with these facts, and your expert comments are appreciated.

Best thanks, and warmest regards!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kennon

that is the most long winded rant iv ever reade but the simple fact is you pay little cash you get little back its how things are in life you want quality you have to fork out for it i would of gotten a Sinnis apache supermoto if i hadnt got my spanish bike for a very good deal, most people only buy chinese built bikes for a year then have there full license done so there is the markety for cheap bikes, you want rubbish you pay under £1000 you want something that will last 2 years + you have to pay more for it

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Rant really? Like so many Chinese bike buyers you seem to have only commented on the price factor (only one of the important points I raised) Surely Safety should be the major concern when hitting our roads? I thought I made myself quite clear that my intention was purely an attempt to open peoples eyes to the reality of buying cheap Chinese motorcycles, and to make them a little more aware of the regular oversights of naive buyers. I could have taken your approach and just said "cheap=crap" and you have to pay for real quality, however I thought most intelligent readers would appreciate a little "real world" information from industry experience to back-up the claim. Remember my sharing of information was in reply to the threads request, of course buyers make their own choice when spending their hard-earned money, but surely being armed with more info first is a good thing? If you think my post is long you should see our list of disappointed customers who wish they had known what they were really buying before finding out the hard way! I stopped short of saying don't buy one, and merely said do it with your eyes open and with realistic expectations!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Dear Japonly,

Thanks for taking the time to express your views in MCM.

I think if you spend much time in these threads you'd find that the vast majority of us who own, ride and wrench China bikes are pretty much in full agreement with you. Those of us who live in China have little choice in the matter because import duties and other restrictions make imported bikes almost impossibly expensive to own; we own China bikes because they are what are available. Those of us who live outside China and still buy these bikes do so for various reasons, but price is a big factor, along with perhaps a sense of pioneering or adventure. Those who bought Chinese thinking they were getting a "great deal" are actually few and far between, or have long since thrown in the towel.

Anyone who has done their homework by reading about any particular China bike here in MCM will have heard many honest and sometimes brutal assessments of the bikes' shortcomings, as well as, in some cases, their improvements over time.

Some of us dedicate a lot of effort to working with China's manufacturers to improve quality and service, but it's a long and thankless task that we do more out of necessity than choice. I'd rather ride my Jialing than not ride at all. It would not be my first choice of bike if I were living outside of China.

Bottom line: China bikes are a fact of life in most of the world now, including Australia. The same could be said for China's role in the Australian economy, for better or worse. You clearly are finding a way to deal with these facts, and your expert comments are appreciated.

Best thanks, and warmest regards!

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Thank you for understanding both sides of this debate, of course I accept that Chinese bikes are here to stay and they are improving even if at what seems a snails pace. I have tried to work with our local distributor for a brand we did sell for a while however trying to get those guys to appreciate and understand our concerns is near impossible, as they have a totaly different motivation and grasp of what should be before it's put on sale in our market. They want their retailers to correct the factories shortcomings as they have no technical understanding or appreciation themselves. A Chinese brand along side a Japanese brand is a major gamble of your dealerships reputation and the daily issues encountered cause no end of stress for the staff and technicians also who can't help but ask why are we envolved with these lesser bikes. For me the real worry is the safety concers I have for the rider, as I see shocking assembly and poor materials which would not be allowed or accepted if the bikes were built anywhere else.

im not a chinese bike buyer though, im on this forum because i have dual nationality for the UK and hong kong, i have a spanish built bike Rieju marathon Pro supermoto with a yamaha engine in the cheaper version they use a chinese built zongshen 125 engine which they deem good enough to put into a european product, i dont know what its like in australia but dealer support even on chinese bikes is very good even better than a aprilia dealership down the road most even come with 2 years warranty for piece of mind now.

some people say having a cheap aka crap bike means you have more fun theres a sense of character and learn how to do things yourself which does also sound like having a 2 stroke bike that requires allot of attention iv owned 2 stroke enduro's so iv been there rebuilding it and seen the bad buildman ship even from new from a japanese bike built in japan there ment to deal with jumps and abuse but still a distinct lack of lock tight on the bolts,

To me motorcycling is about having fun,,,Riding some brand new SuzKawaYamHon costing tonnes of wogger is no fun,neither is spannering an old wreck!!! But buying a Chinese bike (Faults and all) was great fun for ME,,,My bike cost £1299 for a 233cc dirt (Bashan 250 ) just like thousands of others.I thrashed it for 7000 miles over hill and dale and had some great times,sure the cycle part are crap,but it felt safe ,stopped ok,and the engine was a peach!!!!! I really enjoyed the bike and it was value for money...It was so good it was stolen,Dam Scroates!!!!!! As has been said time and time again "you pay for what you get" it worked for me!!!!!just recently I looked at a CF moto jet max,,with a view to buying ,,but at a cost of £2799,,,it did not look value for money so I passed by...Now the CF moto 650 is selling for £4000.I going to take a peek and try to wrangle a test ride,,who knows maybe I will ,maybe I wont,,,,,all the best

Quote:

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Originally Posted by japonly!

Thank you for understanding both sides of this debate, of course I accept that Chinese bikes are here to stay and they are improving even if at what seems a snails pace. I have tried to work with our local distributor for a brand we did sell for a while however trying to get those guys to appreciate and understand our concerns is near impossible, as they have a totaly different motivation and grasp of what should be before it's put on sale in our market. They want their retailers to correct the factories shortcomings as they have no technical understanding or appreciation themselves. A Chinese brand along side a Japanese brand is a major gamble of your dealerships reputation and the daily issues encountered cause no end of stress for the staff and technicians also who can't help but ask why are we envolved with these lesser bikes. For me the real worry is the safety concers I have for the rider, as I see shocking assembly and poor materials which would not be allowed or accepted if the bikes were built anywhere else.

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I thought the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers would never allow a Chinese brand motorcycle to be sold in the same dealership.I've seen Honda pull their brand from my friends shop because he was selling Yamaha as well.They gave him the choice though one or the other.

A reputable motorcycle dealer who is selling Japanese or European motorcycle's must have rocks in their head to take on a Chinese motorcycle brand as well.

Interesting to note how the Australian public is coming to terms with Chinese car manufactures establishing their market in Australia.

I just read this track test on the CF moto 650 by Alan Cartright. He pretty well the top racing bike tester in the UK and has been since Genesis chapter 1..take time to read,,,,all the best http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cycle...000&pg=83#pg83

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lipsee

I just read this track test on the CF moto 650 by Alan Cartright. He pretty well the top racing bike tester in the UK and has been since Genesis chapter 1..take time to read,,,,all the best http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cycle...000&pg=83#pg83

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Dear Lipsee,

Amazing post, and an amazing, compelling review. I've repeated this review in the CFMoto 650NK thread.

cheers!

Changzhou Kawasaki and Kwang Yang engine co., ltd, that is were Kawasaki in china is located?
Hangzhou and Changzhou are both in the same region.

http://www.khi.co.jp/english/company/pdf/group.pdf

There is obviously some technology sharing going on in Jiangsu province, the above Kawasaki facility manufactures engines and was established in 2009.

I would not be surprised, Kawasaki partnered with KYMCO in that facility and likely struck a deal with CFMOTO…formally I would hope.

I think Japonly has risen two other issues, false promises and irresponsible to owners.