Buying a bike New vs. used

First, thanks everybody for all the information (law,protection, bikes). I'm getting my licence now and will be getting a bike during the next two months.

I'm not a bike enthusiast (yet!) and I don't really care for big bikes or sporty looking ones. I want to lean back and enjoy the trip im planning. Me and the gf are going to travel to shaanxi, inner mongolia, maybe beijing and back this summer and I'm soon to be buying my first bike.

Inspection:
Theres a bike in the shop i've been eyeing, 125cc low-rider thingy, dont know what youd call it, i dont know the chinese for inspection but my chinese is not bad and i can make myself understood, the bike-shop-guy speaks ok english too but when I ask if the bikes got inspection papers the channels of communication run a bit dry. This makes me think he doesnt have them. Can someone tell me the chinese name for the inspection thing.

Type of bike:
For the roads here is a low-rider bike suitable or will we just feel like a tin of paint on one of those mixing machines? They have these weird looking new bikes, some kindof hybrid which seem to have good suspension, do you know what I'm talking about and are they any good, he wants about 6000 for them. I understand from the forums that this should come with one year insurance and will be registered in my name.

I'm a bit wary of buying a new bike as I don't really know anything about bikes yet and I like to be inconspicuous when I travel. I'd like to buy 2nd hand but it seems like they're a lot of trouble and I haven't found a shop that has a decent selection of them. Does anyone know a good bike shop here (in Shanghai)?

So to summarize my main questions:
What type of bike can I get away with riding for incursions inland ? I'm not getting a dirt-bike because it won't be comfortable to carry my gf and our stuff for a month.

What specific things should I ask him about to verify the bike is road worthy and legal apart from the fapiao? What are these things in Chinese (with charachters)?

Are there any trustworthy bike shops or places to get body armour that you guys know of?

Thanks in advance,

Andy

Thanks for the advice (not! lol) anyway I've just come from the regal-raptor shop and the DD250E-9B stole my heart. She's the one (I think it was around 16000 on the road, but have seen them online for 14500). I reckon me and the gf could do alrite on it. Still don't know about the roads tho. Does anyone know a reputable second hand shop (or is it much better off getting to new one?) and again, what are the certifications called in chinese?

Is it crazy to want to put a windshield on it? I read that they can be uncomfortable to ride for long stretches because of wind-resistance.

Dear Clegg,

Greetings from across town, or perhaps the same 'hood, and apologies for the tardy welcome. MCM has been a bit sleepy of late, and typically is more reliable for queries like yours. Hopefully this means members are all out riding and enjoying the springtime weather before the sultry hammer of summer falls.

As for your questions, please spend some time trolling through these threads, and using the search function. These topics have been covered quite a bit, and you'll also get a much greater sense for how motorcycling works here.

On what bike, I've posted recently about why I would not want either a cruiser or a sport bike in China, but we have plenty of members who favor one or the other, and have lived to tell the tale. Dewsnap has recently posted a lot about his Raptor purchase, so check out his posts.

Second hand purchases? That's also been covered a lot, mostly with warnings, since there are tons of bikes of dubious provenance (stolen outright, crafted from stolen parts, etc) and it's probably very challenging to find a used bike with reliably legal plates/registration, etc. Not saying don't buy used, but caveatbloodyfuckingemptor.

A final thought: If you are planning to ride two-up, you need to be making these buying decisions not just for yourself and your own safety, but in the interest of your pillion's safety as well. That's a huge responsibility. Looking cool on a low-slung cruiser might appeal to both of you, but it might not be the smartest, safest approach.

thanks for making the extra effort to reach out. MCM is a great resource, and a place for a lot of good camaraderie too.

cheers

Thanks for the reply. I have and will continue to trawl the threads, theres an immense amount of information, but I'm working through it. The reason I would be going for the cruiser is for safety. It looks safer than the 2n and I assumed that cruisers are better for long distances. I dont see a negative in your post about the negatives of a cruiser. I read that the turning sucks a bit on lower speeds but I would rather that and be able to sit back at high speed, maybe with a windshield. Maybe I'm wrong but the back seats on the sportier bikes don't look to be a safe/comfortable at higher speeds\long runs.

If I dont get a cruiser or sports bike what do I get? those dual-sports things dont look great for passengers

yea on the second hand thing im kindof getting that vibe from the site and my own experience, just thought there may be a reputable dealer somewhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corporal_clegg

Does anyone know a reputable second hand shop (or is it much better off getting to new one?) and again, what are the certifications called in chinese?

Is it crazy to want to put a windshield on it? I read that they can be uncomfortable to ride for long stretches because of wind-resistance.

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Windshield is a good idea, obtainable from either the Pubei Lu Regal shop or the Jaoji Lu motomart (prolly cheaper). Wrangler has one of these bikes and quite loves it. Not sure what you mean by certifications. These bikes are inspected and certified when they are plated, if the shop can get you plates for the bike you want then it *should* be all good. More information on this topic is available if you look up plates on this site. I highly recommend looking at Dewsnap's and Wrangler's posts (as Euphonius mentions) as they got their Regal Raptors in the last 6 months.

One thing against cruisers (from racking up 20K on a Honda Rebel in China), they can wreck your back on long rides. I modified the seat and shocks on my bike so that I get more of an upright sitting position (shoulders in front of hips). Going over bumps at speed got a bit uncomfortable otherwise. YMMV. My friend is 6'1" and loves his Raptor cruiser as is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuhaus

Windshield is a good idea, obtainable from either the Pubei Lu Regal shop or the Jaoji Lu motomart (prolly cheaper). Wrangler has one of these bikes and quite loves it. Not sure what you mean by certifications. These bikes are inspected and certified when they are plated, if the shop can get you plates for the bike you want then it *should* be all good. More information on this topic is available if you look up plates on this site. I highly recommend looking at Dewsnap's and Wrangler's posts (as Euphonius mentions) as they got their Regal Raptors in the last 6 months.

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The big girl who seemed to know whats what in the showroom looked at me like i was a fool when I asked about the windshield lol. I'm not sure if i will get a legit plate right off the bat, I think that insurance, licence and registration papers should be enough for now. Whats the point in getting an expensive sh plate to just drive off into the countryside. When I get back i will check out plates. Not decided yet tho. Its all just so bloody expensive. Looks like itll be 16 for the bike another 12/13 minimum for all the gear (for both of us)... modifications etc. plus plates, will have to see how much money I can gather.

The certifications I mean from a second hand dealer to ensure the bike is legal and road-worthy.

Thanks for the notice for the wrangler and dewsnap, one of those things... i couldnt find it until I new it was there, stupid. Still the cruisers sounds like it came with less faults. I'm worried about having to deal with all this when I get it as I have no experience I wont know how much is me or the bike. Two months and all will be revealed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corporal_clegg

...The reason I would be going for the cruiser is for safety. It looks safer than the 2n and I assumed that cruisers are better for long distances. I dont see a negative in your post about the negatives of a cruiser. I read that the turning sucks a bit on lower speeds but I would rather that and be able to sit back at high speed, maybe with a windshield.

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I'm a committed dual sport rider, with a JH600 here in China and a Kawi KLR650 in California. Apart from what Nuhaus has said about lower back pain and butt pain on longer rides, which does not happen with the bolt upright position of a dual sport, the DS also gives you the greatest possible visibility as you are high above all surrounding vehicles, and your posture allows for the widest range of head turning for head checks. if you are slightly reclined on a cruiser, or leaning forward on a sport bike, your range of head checking is definitely limited. Also not sure how comfortable a pillion would be on a cruiser on a long ride unless she (and it will be a she, right?) has a nice backrest. That has the effect of throwing the riders' collective weight further back on the bike, compounding an imbalance front to back that already exists if you are carrying luggage.

Check out Serpentza's recent thread on riding with beer girl in Guangdong, and you'll see a nicely balanced rider/pillion/luggage combo on a dual sport. For an even more impressive setup, read Pfaelzer's recent threads on riding his JH600 with pillion through Fujian in spring.

I can ride for 10-12 hours and never feel back or butt fatigue on my two DS bikes.

For overall comfort and safety in China, especially with pillion, an upright riding posture is best.

One rider's opinion!

cheers

alrite euphonius. I am already quite attached to my embriotic raptor but those setups look doable. Ima head around tomorrow and check out qingqi and maybe zongchen shops. A little heart broken although but would like to figure out what is best before deciding what to do.

Last thing I want to do is curb your enthusiasm! Whatever bike you get you'll be on cloud 9. But no need to rush. Take it slow and easy and get the bike you want. In coming months there may also be more choices, as more makers comply with the China3 emissions requirements.

There are quite a few of us here in Shanghai who would be happy to let you check out our various steeds, and share with you our various biases/preferences!

cheers!

I agree with Euphonius. Enduro style bikes are simply the best, though a well designed classical basic bikes are quite close to Enduros.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moilami

...Enduro style bikes are simply the best, though a well designed classical basic bikes are quite close to Enduros.

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Especially with a 24-year-old pillion! Any updates, Mikko? Will you get her astride Orange? :lol8::lol8::lol8:

do you have any brand suggestions? I need something 250cc i think (possibly 200) to take two of us. Ive found the qingqi liger and will go to check it out tomorrow but zongshen dont seem to have anything bigger than a 150, shineray dont have a dealership in shanghai. Also going to check out yamaha, suzuki/haojue shops but I have a feeling im not going to turn up much What other options are there? I am searching believe me but I think I'm missing something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuhaus

One thing against cruisers (from racking up 20K on a Honda Rebel in China), they can wreck your back on long rides. I modified the seat and shocks on my bike so that I get more of an upright sitting position (shoulders in front of hips). Going over bumps at speed got a bit uncomfortable otherwise. YMMV. My friend is 6'1" and loves his Raptor cruiser as is.

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How did you modify the seats? Do you just buy harder ones? When you say you modified the shocks do you mean you got/changed to higher back ones. Can you hang bags off the fuel tank to spread out the weight or does that interfere with airflow or something? The bags I saw more sit on top of the tank, a bit in your face. I'm not short (6'2") but it seems they may interfere with veiw of dials and suchlike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corporal_clegg

...the shocks do you mean you got/changed to higher back ones...

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Common shock mod
Stock: 27cm Mod = 31cm http://www.motorfans.com.cn/bbs/view...authorid=86773

I went to the Jaoji Lu moto mart and got them to reupholster the seat with way more foam than was necessary. I saw a local Shanghai police bike with an overstuffed seat and asked for something similar. The seat mod I highly recommend, you can even bring them some memory foam if you want to get fancy. I paid 30 RMB and the guy spent 45 minutes putting it all together for me. You should also be able to get panniers and a rear box on Jaoji Lu for a cheaper price than what you'll get on Pubei Lu. I'm not a fan of tank bags but I know others who love them.

The shocks are another story, and I wouldn't recommend you start swapping them out on a new bike. I should do a write up on my Frankenstein's monster bike. The only original parts are the frame and the front wheel.

Shop around and keep us posted on what you buy. I find myself living vicariously through the other members here as I try to get up the gumption to buy a new bike myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Especially with a 24-year-old pillion! Any updates, Mikko? Will you get her astride Orange? :lol8::lol8::lol8:

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Haha, I don't think so. I think she dislikes Orange since I don't really buy that "I am afraid to be a passenger in motorcycle" as a reason big enough :lol8:

Other than that we are friends and I have to keep looking with Orange a woman who accepts us as we are :lol8:

I learned of this one important lesson and that is photograph a lot and then photograph some more :lol8:

So I had another poke about the other day to see what else was available. Went to an empty parking lot and a hotel which were sopposed to be zongshen and qingqi dealerships respectively. I eventually found another qingqi dealership near the b address of google maps result for qingqi motuoche (ie. address was also incorrect). the shop was chock full of scooters and 125 standards. there was one cruiser and a liger (200gy) in the front corner. the liger looked class but he wanted 15800 for it. non- negotiable he said. Checked the eqingqi shop and after sometime with my dictionary I found I had ordered one for only 0 rmb plus delivery (200rmb) I called them and found out that the dont actualy have any of the bikes in stock. they told me the bike i saw in the shop dealership. Called a dealer in hangzhou, he said that he will have one next week for a bit over 7000. Dont know what the difference between them is. You have the qm200gy b(a)/b(sd)/b(asd)/2b/i and so on so forth. From the site i can only find superficial differences, the specs seem the same but the bikes look different.

In im drowning in a load of bs. Will try the dealership again with a chinese in my stead otherwise will have to train it to hangzhou to buy it, figure out how to ride it quicksnap and bring it home under cover of darkness (written test for driving licence on tuesday :)).

Any advice or offers of help in this respect would be greatly appreciated.

Dear Clegg,

I responded in your other post. I'm sure you can find Qingqis in the wild here in Shanghai. I've seen them.

cheers

Speaking of new bike vs used, I happened to look at Craigslist Shanghai today and saw this listing:

Quote:

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2001 HARLEY ROAD KING - CNY48000 (CHINA)
Beautiful/perfect 2001 Harley Road King. Sissy bar, back rest, luggage rack, Windvest. Power Commander and Thunder Header. FLAWLESS CONDITION; CHROME, IMPROVED SADDLE BAGS. ONLY 5K MILES. HAS BEEN INDOORS AND WELL TAKEN CARE OF ENTIRE TIME.

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http://images.craigslist.org/3m23pf3...dd1dd8164d.jpg

Jesus, are those ape hangers?

Not sure where this bike is. No mention of legal status.

Interesting.

Oh, and then there's this:

Quote:

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Custom factory Harley - CNY10 (shanghai)

Hope your doing well these Days Please take a look we selling

Harley Davidson 2002 FXSTS soft-tail standard well It started out as one and completely
Rebuilt from the Ground up using all Harley OEM part and only Top name Brand

we Paid $ 17,200.00 new in 2002 ONE OWNER ME very low miles under 6,000
this is a complete List of the part and service and care that went in to Building this one off
factory Harley Custom


1. paint work $ 1,000.00
2. power coat one the Tank Fenders and ETC $300.00
3. wheels 18x5.5 rear 21 3.5 front $1,000.00\
4. power coat wheels spokes $150.00
5. Custom Gell seat $350.00
6. Chrome rear swing Arm $450.00
7. Chrome forks legs $ 300.00
8. lower kit rear $100.00
9. front lower kit $ 100.00
10.Jessie James front fender $275.00
11. custom rear Fender $200.00
12. Custom rear lic plate Holder $175.00
13. Chrome Chain Guard $ 75.00
14. Chrome rear Pulley $350.00
15. Chrome hardware for Pulley $30.00
16. Rear Tire $150.00
17. Front Tire $125.00
18. Ness billet Chrome struts covers $200.00\
19. Custom tea drop air cleaner cover $175.00
20. K&N air cleaner with ARLEN NESS backing plate $150.00
21. Chrome Harley engine cover kit $ 800.00
22. Chrome Harley switch covers $40. 00
23, Chrome engine both cover kit $ 80.00
24. Chrome Harley trans cover $75.00
25. Chrome Harley CYC,cover $75,00
26. Chrome Harley Coil cover $55.00
27. Chrome Harley ING Cover $55,00
28. Chrome Harley Spoiler with side covers $300.00
29. Chrome Harley oil filter cover $55.00
30. Billet shifter Rod $120.00
31. Chrome Horn $30.00
32. Custom Handle Bars $500.00
33. paint work for handle bars $75.00
34. custom Head lights With hardware $ 350.00
35. Custom Harley Brake lines and Clutch and throttle $275.00
36.Chrome Harley Brake Cover with both kit front and rear $175.00
37.Vance&Hinds Exhaust $275.00
38. Custom Harley Brake rotors front and rear $270.00
39. Hi rev turning kit $175.00
40. Custom Arlen Ness dash Kit with flames $175.00
41. Chrome Fork Neck Cover $ 75.00
42. Custom Chrome kit for down tube and sear sides cover $ 150.00
43. Custom mirrors $40.00
44. Chrome brake leavers $45.00
45. Custom Foot pegs $75.00
46. Custom Arlen Ness Rear Axle covers $150.00
47. Chrome Harley axle covers $40.00
48.Custom Arlen Ness Flamed Handle Gips $70.00
49. Chrome Harley ditial dip stick $40.00
50. Chrome Harley master brake Cover $40.00

asking price is $ 15,000.00
please call me at 909-271-9646 / shanghai 15800728633 cell

Thanks
Duane Aguilera

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http://images.craigslist.org/3n43p53...34bc3219b5.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3kf3m33...b1d0911896.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Interesting.

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Heh heh ... I was VERY surprised to see your post ... are you considering coming over to the Dark Side?

IMHO, that Harley with the ape hangers won't be legal for 48,000 rmb. But a pretty good price - illegal Road Kings in Beijing run about 75K to 100K for up to the 2008 model year (add at least 25K if you are a foreign buyer!). A legal A-plated Road King (almost all are post 2006) in Beijing will start around 150K and head up to 300K, or more.

Well, not actually interested in the slightest, but thought that was the appropriate thread to note the existence of these steeds. the word "interesting" can have many meanings, including, "I'm not interested, but you might be."

And I'll never ever understand ape hangers.

cheers!

Second hand bike buyer's guide.. I'm not sure I mentioned this before, but here's the link again. http://www.clarity.net/adam/buying-bike.html

Good luck with the mechanics after you buy second hand. Here in Kunming, if the bike is not on fire, mei wenti mei wenti .. maintenance was out of the question, only fix stuff after they break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Oh, and then there's this:

Custom factory Harley - CNY10 (shanghai)

Hope your doing well these Days Please take a look we selling

Harley Davidson 2002 FXSTS soft-tail standard well It started out as one and completely
Rebuilt from the Ground up using all Harley OEM part and only Top name Brand

we Paid $ 17,200.00 new in 2002 ONE OWNER ME very low miles under 6,000
this is a complete List of the part and service and care that went in to Building this one off
factory Harley Custom


1. paint work $ 1,000.00
2. power coat one the Tank Fenders and ETC $300.00
3. wheels 18x5.5 rear 21 3.5 front $1,000.00\
4. power coat wheels spokes $150.00
5. Custom Gell seat $350.00
6. Chrome rear swing Arm $450.00
7. Chrome forks legs $ 300.00
8. lower kit rear $100.00
9. front lower kit $ 100.00
10.Jessie James front fender $275.00
11. custom rear Fender $200.00
12. Custom rear lic plate Holder $175.00
13. Chrome Chain Guard $ 75.00
14. Chrome rear Pulley $350.00
15. Chrome hardware for Pulley $30.00
16. Rear Tire $150.00
17. Front Tire $125.00
18. Ness billet Chrome struts covers $200.00\
19. Custom tea drop air cleaner cover $175.00
20. K&N air cleaner with ARLEN NESS backing plate $150.00
21. Chrome Harley engine cover kit $ 800.00
22. Chrome Harley switch covers $40. 00
23, Chrome engine both cover kit $ 80.00
24. Chrome Harley trans cover $75.00
25. Chrome Harley CYC,cover $75,00
26. Chrome Harley Coil cover $55.00
27. Chrome Harley ING Cover $55,00
28. Chrome Harley Spoiler with side covers $300.00
29. Chrome Harley oil filter cover $55.00
30. Billet shifter Rod $120.00
31. Chrome Horn $30.00
32. Custom Handle Bars $500.00
33. paint work for handle bars $75.00
34. custom Head lights With hardware $ 350.00
35. Custom Harley Brake lines and Clutch and throttle $275.00
36.Chrome Harley Brake Cover with both kit front and rear $175.00
37.Vance&Hinds Exhaust $275.00
38. Custom Harley Brake rotors front and rear $270.00
39. Hi rev turning kit $175.00
40. Custom Arlen Ness dash Kit with flames $175.00
41. Chrome Fork Neck Cover $ 75.00
42. Custom Chrome kit for down tube and sear sides cover $ 150.00
43. Exterior Custom Sport Mirrors $40.00
44. Chrome brake leavers $45.00
45. Custom Foot pegs $75.00
46. Custom Arlen Ness Rear Axle covers $150.00
47. Chrome Harley axle covers $40.00
48.Custom Arlen Ness Flamed Handle Gips $70.00
49. Chrome Harley ditial dip stick $40.00
50. Chrome Harley master brake Cover $40.00

asking price is $ 15,000.00
please call me at 909-271-9646 / shanghai 15800728633 cell

Thanks
Duane Aguilera



http://images.craigslist.org/3n43p53...34bc3219b5.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3kf3m33...b1d0911896.jpg

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i bought a new bike last year and when i need to change some parts i visit their shop and i've been bought a lot of parts for a cheaper price. specially i remember when i bought the custom mirrors, fenders, and lowering kits.

Hey guys, I just would like to be 100% sure of one thing before going further : if somebody buys completely legally a brand new bike (let's say in Shanghai for example), has all the documents (ownership, blablabla, etc.) : can you confirm that if he's selling the bike WITHOUT the plates (if he wants to use them on another bike), that the bike he's selling can then be legally plated easily by a buyer, because all the paperwork is in order ?
Right ?

to get a licence plate you have to have a certificate that says that the bike complies with the newest emissions standards. Thats all i know, maybe someone else can tell you more.

If all the paperwork is in order of course you can (i am about as sure as you (which is pretty damn sure) on this so my post is a bit useless). i have never done it but it has to be possible, why wouldn't it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fred

Hey guys, I just would like to be 100% sure of one thing before going further : if somebody buys completely legally a brand new bike (let's say in Shanghai for example), has all the documents (ownership, blablabla, etc.) : can you confirm that if he's selling the bike WITHOUT the plates (if he wants to use them on another bike), that the bike he's selling can then be legally plated easily by a buyer, because all the paperwork is in order ?
Right ?

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Hmmmmm ... I've seen (and experienced) some weird sh1t trying to plate "legal" bikes, even with all the paperwork "in order". These days, with the emissions rules & the ever-changing "list of approved MCs", I'd only hand over the money to the seller if my agent actually managed to get the bike registered, plated & insured. One never knows if a bike can be plated until it is actually plated. Sounds ridiculous, and it is, but it is the current state of affairs.

I keep advocating using an agent to handle transfers/plating/etc because the process is so bizarre and time-consuming. Agents do it every day, know the rules, know the people, know the paperwork, know the chops, etc., and only charge a few hundred rmb (they make money because they do several at the same time). Once, I followed my agent around to learn how the entire process is done. Yeah, once was enough, and now I happily pay the agent's fee.

My two fen.