Re: How long is a string..?
I have a few friends in business here and this is what it's like, daily dealing with this kind of BS. If you think the law will even help you I can't see any reason to keep waiting, there is no reason for you to not have your engine by now. Ship isn't the only available form of transport here. It could easily be put on any train that goes directly to Beijing,even if there are complications there is always a way around it here. Give him a reasonable deadline, have him sign to acknowledge and consult a lawyer. Thats my 5 jiao's worth
Re: How long is a string..?
Did you know that the a spinning propeller was the inspiration for the BMW emblem?
http://drivesteady.com/wp-content/up.../BMW-plane.jpg
Re: How long is a string..?
Re: How long is a string..?
I was asked by the above to delete his comments and my replay. I was not aware of this person using this board to further his business. This forum supposed to be place where wecan talk about bikes and been honest to each other, warning to others getting screwedby this guy helps and will enhance the integrity of this board. No one deserves to be consistently lied, especially if this guy actually frequents this forum.Dint wake up last night and dreamed it all, those are the facts, and if someone wants to know our legally registered business name, real manes and contact numbers,I am prepared to disclose it.
Thanks
Rotor
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MJH
Wow, I did not know that! Makes sense!
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MJH
Yes I knew it, manyyears ago, served my apprenticeship with BMW in Bayern, and at the time thefactory used to make the BMW LS had a 600cc bike engine in it, I had one of those cars but it was useless.
Thanks
Rotor
Re: How long is a string..?
Rotor, you are correct about the business standards in China, and you are correct about these business people not standing a chance back home. But it isn't just the BMW engine guy. Lots of cafes, hotels and shops that are owned by Americans & Europeans would never survive back home. They can operate in China because the standards are so much lower, and the American & European customers living in China have resigned themselves to accept second-rate service.
Waiting 2 years, and getting one phony story after another, means you have incredible patience. And yes, these forums should be a place to discuss our experiences. Here is ours.
My husband looked into buying one of those BMW sidecars from that guy in Beijing. But my husband discovered that the bikes he uses are actually scrap that can no longer be licensed in China. And the used BMW engines appear not to be legally imported into China. When my husband asked if he could get the sidecar inspected and licensed, he was told that "arrangements" could be done to put some kind of "other" plate on the sidecar. He was told not to worry with this plate, unless he drives into Beijing. We wondered if this was even a legal business in Beijing if the sidecars can't be legally driven in Beijing.
When my husband asked if we could import the sidecar into the USA, the BMW guy said that "paperwork can be arranged" to get it through USA customs. His words were "we supply whatever paperwork is needed for any country. If needed, we will show that the date it was built makes it qualify as an antique motorcycle". We were left with a similar feeling as you. This could never happen back home. We never bought the sidecar.
Good luck getting your money back, although I doubt you will see any.
Re: How long is a string..?
China is a different planet. You'll have a hard time living here if you want to keep looking down on Chinese business ways. Not defending anyone, but just saying it's a lesson to learn. Pickup any of the 100's of China books and you'll see such identical stories. I'm just saying that if you want to do business here, you'd better change your attitude and find ways to deal with problems. Learn the Chinese way, because trust me, China is not changing anytime soon for you. May I ask if a contract was signed? Or was everything just verbally agreed open?
motorama.. you're forced to bend the law in many ways. 'Legal' is a grey word in China. Welcome and enjoy your stay. Find a way to enjoy, find a way to bend your vision, because China is not changing anytime soon.
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slabo
China is a different planet. You'll have a hard time living here if you want to keep looking down on Chinese business ways. Not defending anyone, but just saying it's a lesson to learn. Pickup any of the 100's of China books and you'll see such identical stories. I'm just saying that if you want to do business here, you'd better change your attitude and find ways to deal with problems. Learn the Chinese way, because trust me, China is not changing anytime soon for you. May I ask if a contract was signed? Or was everything just verbally agreed open?
motorama.. you're forced to bend the law in many ways. 'Legal' is a grey word in China. Welcome and enjoy your stay. Find a way to enjoy, find a way to bend your vision, because China is not changing anytime soon.
You Sir, are a hypocrite, naming the guy in question andthen asking to delete your response and now berating me how to do business in China. I wasn’t doing business with a Chinese, the guy is a westerner and the lesson to learn beware of westerners in China, and like motorama eluded, this guy’s wound not survive back home with his corrupt business practices. One does contract with the Chines business man and usually to save face they honored it, dint think for a moment I would need a contact in China with a westerner, and yes,that is a lesson to learn. I don’t have to change my attitude to deal with the Chines, i never had to pay guanxi but I have used the connection with the authorities to get the paper work done legally. Ultimately, this is not about China, is about people like American guy taking money and not delivering and, people like you giving a bad example to the western community that is acceptable to be corrupt in China.
Thanks
Rotor
Re: How long is a string..?
you must've met some good chinese businessmen, from my (and others experience) face doesnt matter as much in business. They will shamelessly try to screw you every way you turn. I have a friend who exports lenses and another locks (random I know) but they have stopped even telling me about the people trying to screw them it happens so often.
I think the word is out now anyway about mr. beijing sidecar. People will hear about it if they ask anyone
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rotor
You Sir, are a hypocrite, naming the guy in question andthen asking to delete your response and now berating me how to do business in China. I wasn’t doing business with a Chinese, the guy is a westerner and the lesson to learn beware of westerners in China, and like motorama eluded, this guy’s wound not survive back home with his corrupt business practices. One does contract with the Chines business man and usually to save face they honored it, dint think for a moment I would need a contact in China with a westerner, and yes,that is a lesson to learn. I don’t have to change my attitude to deal with the Chines, i never had to pay guanxi but I have used the connection with the authorities to get the paper work done legally. Ultimately, this is not about China, is about people like American guy taking money and not delivering and, people like you giving a bad example to the western community that is acceptable to be corrupt in China.
Thanks
Rotor
You still don't get it do you?
Ok, I'll simplify it for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rotor
Should I inform the very important guys buying my aircraft engines of him?
Should Ipay him a visit with some mean looking guys?
You sound like you're an angry bull, and seems you're not looking for any solutions. Friendly advice, don't try any of that shit here... read a book or two if you don't have enough China experience to know I'm talking about. But really this is just stupid. Probably why no one bothered to reply to your post, only I was foolish enough to reply before reading your whole post.
- Personally, I don't know you or Mr. Beijing man .. All I've heard are pleasant stories about him fixing up foreigners with classic sidecars, and his customers seem happy. We all know the law isn't clear on sidecars and so people willing to go into that area have to bend the law somehow.
- Again, I don't know both of you. He could be a crook, and so could you. Or you could both be saints. I still don't know. And hence I don't have the right to come here and talk shit about people I don't know. What part of this don't you understand? Simple English eh? If you want, go ahead and name him yourself, you know him better than me. It's just not my place to talk shit about people I don't know. I don't like being part of the ignorant mob lynching a guy for some a reason I never knew in the first place. I'm not being an ostrich; not wanting to know. But I don't have enough concrete evidence to be sure.
- Stop calling me names.. Have the courtesy to use the same language I use to talk to you. You don't know me, so just stick to the regular formalities and people will show you the respect you deserve.
Re: How long is a string..?
Not angry at all, I am disappointed; seem you are getting extremely hot under the collar for someone that doesn’t want to get involved. I don’t need reed the kind of books your reading about Chines business practices,all I know is to conduct clear honest business with the Chinese, and for that Iam respected and my products are in high regard. I don’t need to name the American;he has named already himself with his illegal business practices. I won’t commenton your other points as they are irreverent to the facts as presented.
Thanks
Rotor
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
corporal_clegg
you must've met some good chinese businessmen, from my (and others experience) face doesnt matter as much in business. They will shamelessly try to screw you every way you turn. I have a friend who exports lenses and another locks (random I know) but they have stopped even telling me about the people trying to screw them it happens so often.
I think the word is out now anyway about mr. beijing sidecar. People will hear about it if they ask anyone
This not correct , despite huge shortcomings in China, onecan and must conduct legal and honest business, in the circles I am dealing with wouldn’t have it any other way. Maybe your friend is lacking somewhere at the business acumen with the Chinese. Moreover,the financial and business success in China somehow new if we comparing it withthe west, the Chinese government and the authorities are working hard to correct the problem of latent corruption, it will take time, and not all will be cleaned, but once it happen, China will be even greater. Still, I was dealing with a westerner, and not a Chinese.
Thanks
Rotor
Re: How long is a lynching..?
Wow, feels a bit like reading an argument about acupuncture or other fake sciences:
One man's anecdotal evidence vs. tons of proof saying the opposite.
You had a shitty experience and that's a real bummer. I don't know what happened and i sincerely hope it works out in your favor in the end.
Still though, your story is not in line with the experiences of others. [he-who-can't-be-named] has tons of happy customers both in china and abroad and is regarded as one of the, if not The, best builders of sidecars in this country. I do and will continue to recommend him when people ask me where to get the most reliable sidecar in china.
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MJH
Friends,
I hate to disappoint you here. You can research it on the web but in short, the BMW roundel had its origin of a logo from the previous company "Rapp Motorenwerke GmbH", whose business BMW continued. The Rapp Motor logo delivered the circular design. The colors are from the Bavarian flag, but they hat to be reversed because companies were not allowed to use state flags or items of the flag on their company logos. This all happened, before BMW was making its first significant aircraft engine. BMW was founded in 1917.
The idea of the resemblance of the logo to a propeller was first mentioned, in 1946 by a guy named Wilhelm Farrenkopf who published an article in an aircraft magazine. Many details are not clear but it seems that BMW like that idea with the propeller and was cultivating it to the current point, where the propeller story is reality now.
Sorry rotor - I don't think you wanted this to become a BMW logo thread. I had my stories with so called "Westerners" in China as well. I didn't accept it and I did the same thing as I would have done in my home country. The guy is German and I am sure he is still "unhappy" now. That's my advice to you.
Cheers,
AW.
PS: I do not know the (guy-who-should-not-be named) and his part of the story and therefor can only judge based on what I read here.
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pfaelzer
Friends,
I hate to disappoint you here. You can research it on the web but in short, the BMW roundel had its origin of a logo from the previous company "Rapp Motorenwerke GmbH", whose business BMW continued. The Rapp Motor logo delivered the circular design. The colors are from the Bavarian flag, but they hat to be reversed because companies were not allowed to use state flags or items of the flag on their company logos. This all happened, before BMW was making its first significant aircraft engine. BMW was founded in 1917.
The idea of the resemblance of the logo to a propeller was first mentioned, in 1946 by a guy named Wilhelm Farrenkopf who published an article in an aircraft magazine. Many details are not clear but it seems that BMW like that idea with the propeller and was cultivating it to the current point, where the propeller story is reality now.
Sorry rotor - I don't think you wanted this to become a BMW logo thread. I had my stories with so called "Westerners" in China as well. I didn't accept it and I did the same thing as I would have done in my home country. The guy is German and I am sure he is still "unhappy" now. That's my advice to you.
Cheers,
AW.
PS: I do not know the (guy-who-should-not-be named) and his part of the story and therefor can only judge based on what I read here.
Thank you very much of the information, Pfaelzer, much appreciated. I believe it is a legend then, and since I dislike spreading misinfromation I don't do it.
Rotor, sucks to hear what has happened to you. I can tell you my opinion is that cheaters deserve to get what they do deserve to get. I really don't have sympathy towards them. So some things might not be worth it in the end, but, hmm, some people just deserve to get something or least fix things in one way or another. I however wish you stay calm with the issue.
Re: How long is a lynching..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
felix
Wow, feels a bit like reading an argument about acupuncture or other fake sciences:
One man's anecdotal evidence vs. tons of proof saying the opposite.
:offtopic: Actually acupuncture is not a fake science but has in fact been proven by Science http://nccam.nih.gov/research/result...le=Acupuncture
Re: How long is a string..?
Just report facts and everyone keep cool.
There is every right to report a problem as long as it does not defame or otherwise, it is what this forum is for in part. We cannot know what is the truth until we hear and see both sides, then we can judge for ourselves.
The posts should be left 'as are' for now but members can add or delete their own as usual themselves, I will not do so as moderator beyond watching the thread, despite requests. If 'Jimbo' is indeed the mentioned member then he can stand up for himself, or ignore etc. Someone who knows him (and cares) can PM him so he knows. Thats about it. Keep it reasonable EVERYONE.
Re: How long is a string..?
Re: How long is a string..?
Hi Jape, I did read the thread last night. I wasn't going to respond because there was so little truth in what rotor had to say. I've never cheated anyone in my life and I didn't cheat rotor. As most everyone knows I deal in air cooled BMW powered CJs. Rotor contacted me and asked me to supply him with a BMW oilhead motor. I told him I could go to E-Bay and get one. He agreed. You never know when one will pop up there or how long it will take to bid and win the auction. Never once did I say he could have it in 30 days. I did find him a motor on E-Bay had it shipped to my warehouse and finally shipped it. When he said he was in a hurry for it (after the fact) I found him one in China. He didn't want it. So we're both waiting for the motors to arrive. I find it ironic in the extreme that a guy who bragged to me that he imports used Subaru motors and polishes them up so he can declare and sell them as new motors should be saying anything about business ethics. Anyway that's about all there is to say about this guy. As to Moilami, I don't believe her husband ever visited my shop. I know for sure I would never say the things that she reported were said to her husband regarding licensing. But I'm not the only guy building CJs in town so maybe she was mistaken. End of story.
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimbosidecar
Hi Jape, I did read the thread last night. I wasn't going to respond because there was so little truth in what rotor had to say. I've never cheated anyone in my life and I didn't cheat rotor. As most everyone knows I deal in air cooled BMW powered CJs. Rotor contacted me and asked me to supply him with a BMW oilhead motor. I told him I could go to E-Bay and get one. He agreed. You never know when one will pop up there or how long it will take to bid and win the auction. Never once did I say he could have it in 30 days. I did find him a motor on E-Bay had it shipped to my warehouse and finally shipped it. When he said he was in a hurry for it (after the fact) I found him one in China. He didn't want it. So we're both waiting for the motors to arrive. I find it ironic in the extreme that a guy who bragged to me that he imports used Subaru motors and polishes them up so he can declare and sell them as new motors should be saying anything about business ethics. Anyway that's about all there is to say about this guy. As to Moilami, I don't believe her husband ever visited my shop. I know for sure I would never say the things that she reported were said to her husband regarding licensing. But I'm not the only guy building CJs in town so maybe she was mistaken. End of story.
Jim ,for some reason you keep digging yourself in the cesspoolwith more lies and untruths, there is no honest bone in your body.There was never talk to get the engine from eBay, you clearly said to me you importing air cooled engines from the US, and your last shipment with my oil head engine has problems to be smuggled in to China since to many CCTV in HK, only 4 weeks ago you told me you had paid another of the many agents you mentioned ,and this time it will get done. The engine you referring (oil head) is apparent from one of your customers having an accident in Beijing and the bike was burned by the engine survived, I said to you ok, send me the engine but you wanted to get paid again, I told you then, you paid it and when the other engine arrives sell it or used it yourself, to that you told me, the oil head are useless for me, I only use air cooled engines as the fit in the Chinese bikes. Everyone knows, one can’t buy nothing on eBay from China, let alone if it is used..!
If you say now you got me an oil head can you prove it witha receipt from eBay? And do you have the shipping address you send it to..? And you deny too borrowing me a BMW bloc..? To refresh your memories this was send to you via email:
Jim Bryant, the unfortunate event since your negatives and a raft of untruth told by you for the last two (2) years and since my wife visited your premises on the 18and subsequently on the 21 of June 2011 and return to Qingdao with your negative either delivering the oil head BMW engine or the return of the moneys paid personally to you by my wife at the Beijing airport on the 7 April 2009 and at the same time my wife receiving from you on loan a damaged bloc from an air cooled BMW engine, unless the money are paid within 10 days from this missive, we have instructed our company lawyers in Beijing to take whatever action deems necessaries to recover the amount of 10,000 RMB paid to you in cash. Furthermore, our government legal representative in Beijing will be made aware of your illegal customs dealing and importing to China a prohibited item, namely used BMW engines from the USA and the possible taxations evasion perpetuated by your company, and eventually revising your residence status in China. I am very sorry Jim, I would be the last person to ruin your business, but you don’t give me any other alternative.
Addendum :
My laptop crashed last year, it took some time to fish outyour BS, keep telling untruths and will publish all your lies. Shame on you..!
Hi xxxxx,
I lost your phone number and couldn't find your e-mail address. Anyway my friend, Mr. Chen has 2 BMW motorcycles that were involved in a fire. He is willing to sell both motors, one an R1150GS and the other an R1200C. He's asking RMB 10,000 for the pair of motors. The motors appear to be undamaged, but of course all the electricals are gone. It's justthe motors only, no fuel injection, or electricals.
Regds,
Jim
www.bmwsidecar.com
______________________________
Hi xxxxxxx,
Yes, I've heard about that, but I've been using PayPal for 10 years buying hundreds of motors and parts and never had a problem yet.
If you can somehow get the cash to me (either RMB or US$) I can PayPal it myself to the seller. Then he will ship the motor to NH to my warehouse and in early April I will ship all my stuff to Hong Kong and bring it up to Beijing.
Regds,
Jim
<www.bmwsidecar.com>
xxxxxxx wrote:
Re: How long is a string..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
motorama
Rotor, you are correct about the business standards in China, and you are correct about these business people not standing a chance back home. But it isn't just the BMW engine guy. Lots of cafes, hotels and shops that are owned by Americans & Europeans would never survive back home. They can operate in China because the standards are so much lower, and the American & European customers living in China have resigned themselves to accept second-rate service.
Waiting 2 years, and getting one phony story after another, means you have incredible patience. And yes, these forums should be a place to discuss our experiences. Here is ours.
My husband looked into buying one of those BMW sidecars from that guy in Beijing. But my husband discovered that the bikes he uses are actually scrap that can no longer be licensed in China. And the used BMW engines appear not to be legally imported into China. When my husband asked if he could get the sidecar inspected and licensed, he was told that "arrangements" could be done to put some kind of "other" plate on the sidecar. He was told not to worry with this plate, unless he drives into Beijing. We wondered if this was even a legal business in Beijing if the sidecars can't be legally driven in Beijing.
When my husband asked if we could import the sidecar into the USA, the BMW guy said that "paperwork can be arranged" to get it through USA customs. His words were "we supply whatever paperwork is needed for any country. If needed, we will show that the date it was built makes it qualify as an antique motorcycle". We were left with a similar feeling as you. This could never happen back home. We never bought the sidecar.
Good luck getting your money back, although I doubt you will see any.
Motorama
Jimbo denies your husband been ever in his shop , well, I spoke today with the other guy building CJs andhe doesn’t import used BMW engines, he keeps it all Chinese. You are correct,your husband was at his shop. Chinese proverb: Paper can't wrap up a fire.
Thanks
Rotor
Re: How long is a string..?
OK well I am just going to lock the thread.
I think Jimbo summed up his position and nothing more useful could now be added in this forum.
Rotor, you had the right to state your case and you come over as believing what you say and as I cannot see any point in your being malicious about it, even if angry, I feel sure it is a misunderstanding driving your posts somwhere. It does not make you seem credible but I understand it. Please continue to post here and join in but no more on this matter.
I suggest if you have evidence you gather it, arrange a neutral meeting with a mature and trusted third party present on both sides and negotiate an understanding. If nothing else you will learn that other points of view and positions, even if wrong from your perspective, can still be valid.
This is just advice given personally as it is beyond the scope of such a forum as this but no-one likes to see bad blood between members. If any want to continue the issue, do it by PM and arrange for email exchange OFF forum.
