New Regal Raptor DD250-2N in Shanghai

As mentioned in the post of Dewsnap some time ago, I bought a new Regal Raptor DD250-2N in Shanghai. The registration took 2 weeks and I had to go to Germany for a hometrip (and to see my old BMW J).

Attachment 5049

Attachment 5050

Attachment 5051

Now I am back to SH and have picked up the RR on last Saturday. The overall impression was good:

- the engine runs smoothly from idle to midrange revs, good torque characteristic, low vibrations. Stable idle, the engine does not die when shifting down, no gaps in revs and almost no backfiring
- the gearbox works just a bit too “tight”, especially when shifting from 1. to 2., but it’s new. No problems to find neutral.
- The clutch works smoothly, too
- The engine starts immediately after hitting the starter, both cold and warm
- The shocks work quite well. The rear shocks even better than in my old BMW
- I did not have the feeling that the engine overheats and did not smell (what I remember was claimed by Dewsnap). Also the cooling system has been tight so far.

The engine did not overheat although - and now come the bad news – there was not enough oil (below min. level) and coolant (only traces at the bottom of the reservoir)!!!

Moreover the brake fluid level of the front brake is too low, too. Nothing to see through the sight glass. I have the feeling the front brake has air in. I told them when being still in the shop that the travel of the brake lever is too far but they said, this was normal. I cannot fix it at the moment as one of the screws of the brake fluid reservoir is already damaged – the cross recess in the head. So, I want to drill it out. The bolts are very soft, nothing like bolts 8.8 or 10.9.

Also still being in the shop I claimed too large clearance of the accelerator grip (approx. 60°). They tried to fix it but in vain. At home I found out that the grip has too large axial movement and the fixing bolt in the bottom of the casing is missing. See pic. This should be a special bolt with reduced tip or perhaps some more parts. Dewsnap, could take a look at your RR from below to check if this bolt is there. Or do you have also just an open thread hole?

Attachment 5047

Attachment 5048


In general I must say that the guys at the shop have not done a good job at the assembly. Especially the low level of engine oil, coolant and brake fluid are not acceptable!

I want to fix it all by myself now because of some “lack of trust”. But I need the missing parts of the accelerator grip.

I will keep you posted!

The open hole in the throttle assembly is actually for a second "push" cable. In other words, the throttle assembly was designed to use two cables: a "pull" cable (which you obviously have) which is fastened with a teardrop shaped clip screwed into the housing, and a "push" cable which has a threaded collar that screws into the housing just below the "pull" cable.

It looks like you are missing a cable which is contributing to your throttle woes.

/Mike

Hey Mike. thanks! The size of this thread is really as such as to accommodate another cable. I was not aware of such an arrangement so far, a "push" cable? What is the purpose of it? I new pull cables only so far.

Most throttle assemblies provide positive force in both directions -- upward when you accelerate, and downward when you decelerate. The point of the latter is to enable the rider to reduce fuel to the engine actively and rapidly, rather than passively. Neither cable actually "pushes"; both actually pull. One pulls the fuel flow open, and one pulls it closed.

cheers

Euphonius, thanks for the addition to Mike's post. Obviously my knowledge in this field is pretty outdated (perhaps due to my old Gummikuh :icon10:), thus I'm happy to learn something new. This double acting assembly is for sure helpful for big displacements / outputs, I guess. Probably it does not depend on carb / EFI option? Anyway, the Raptor is my first bike with EFI, but I suppose the second cable has just not been forseen by Lifeng. I rather guess that the mess is caused by poor selection, quality and fit of the components. The core of the cable seems too long, thus you cannot adjust it using full range at both ends. The adjusting threaded bushes at both ends are also quite wishy-washy. In addition something crackles inside the assembly when turning and passing through one certain position.

But this is not the only adjustment issue in this game. I also have to adjust my claim and attitude since it is my first Chinese bike :riding:. As such I have to relax a little and see it more globally. So far, if that was it in regard to deficiencies, the value for money is still good, Chinese domestic market considered.

Ah, BTW, another adjustment was not done in the store but needed: there was no gap at the clutch lever, means the clutch was under permanent tension but just a little. It did not slip or burn so far. And this adjustment was easy, the lower cable end had still enough thread, so just one simple grip.

A confirmation about the second cable - Dewsnap or another DD250-2N owner please:clap: - still needed.

Hey Macieq, only just found your post, i'll be sure to check my bike and report back to you tomorrow.

I'm sorry to hear about the shoddy service you recieved on your new Raptor, especially after stating the mechanics were good. I have to agree, no oil, coolant or brake fluid is an absolute joke and a real liability. I'm really surprised (perhaps i shouldn't be) by that level of service. I do know that your bike had been stood on the showroom floor for a couple of weeks while you were in Germany, and the optimist in me likes to think that they could have left the final stages of assembly until you came back and then somehow forgot to do it before handing you the keys?

But i'm glad your happy with the bikes performance so far. It seems like you're having none of the problems that i had on my bike. I must have bought a lemon!
What mileage are you at now? Are you going for the hard or soft break in?

You might be pleased to know that i'm still very happy with the DD250G-2N's performance after 5000kms. She's fully broken in now and running better than ever. After all the initial problems the bike keeps improving, so that's a big up for your new bike.

Hey Dan! Good to hear your RR performs well. Yes, i am generally happy. Especially the main featuers are fine. Of course I ride carefully at the moment, only up to midrange revs. The highest speed was 80 km/h so far. But the milage is almost nothing yet, 90 km. I just bought the oil and the coolant and some other stuff. I did not want to ride without those 2 important liquids and have been quite busy, so did not ride since Sunday. But I rode only with 2 persons so far (my wife). Therefore, I have to admit that this little beast develops pretty good torque at lower revs, if you consider it is 250 cc only. And it runs smoothly, without excessive vibrations, what I like. Regarding the store, I do not know. Perhaps they trusted too much in the factory and did not check those items (I guess the oil and coolant where already filled up). As far as the brake fluid is considered I am not quite sure yet. Maybe the reservoir is as much full as you cannot see anything in the sight glass because it is high. First I have to loose the small troublesome bolt. I do not have enough good tool yet. I do not know where I can buy high quality bits for the screw driver for example. In B&Q they have only this crappy stuff. Even that one called Bosch is shit, you can see it at first glance. It is cheap but useless.

One more finding and question for you. My rev meter displays much too low revs. For example at 80 km/h in 5. gear it was only 5000 rpm which is impossible. In addition it seems to me my speedometer shows too low speed, which is absolutely untypical!!! I think I have a quite good feeling for speed. So, I would say at 80 km/h on the display it was 85-90 in real. If so, the rev meter is even worse because it should be something in the range of 7000 rpm. What about yours? Have you GPS your speedo?

The rev counter is absolutely useless. Mine jumps up and down from 0-8000 rpm on any kind of incline.

Hey Macieq. I looked at my bike today and i have an open screw hole under the throttle the same as yours. I never even noticed it before.

I don't have a gps so i haven't seen how accurate the speedo is but i don't have much faith in it at all if it's anything like the rev counter. Completely unreliable.

It perfectly OK to run a "push-pull" throttle assembly with a single "pull" cable. You might want to plug the open hole with a plastic cap to keep dirt out of the throttle sleeve.

Your tachometer sounds as useless as the POS Triumph puts on their America & Speedmaster models. Fortunately, adding a new aftermarket tach is simple and cheap. Koso and Acewell are brands I've used before and found to be of high quality.

/Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dewsnap

Hey Macieq. I looked at my bike today and i have an open screw hole under the throttle the same as yours. I never even noticed it before.

I don't have a gps so i haven't seen how accurate the speedo is but i don't have much faith in it at all if it's anything like the rev counter. Completely unreliable.

---

I think the speedo might be more reliable and accurate as it is mechanical whereas the tacho is electronic. Have you seen the flexible shaft running from the front wheel to the clocks?

BTW: I filled up the engine oil yesterday. I got 0.5 L in and the level was just in the mid between max and min. So, 1/3 of the total volume (1.6 L) was missing. The coolant was approx. 200 ml too low. I also got the brake fluid reservoir unscrewed. The brake fluid was fine, just a bit overfilled, therefore not visible in the sight glass.

Hey Mike, a plastic cap is a good idea, I thought about it already. BTW: The store confirmed that the second hole is optional for another model, not for the DD250-2N.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by macieq

Hey Mike, a plastic cap is a good idea, I thought about it already. BTW: The store confirmed that the second hole is optional for another model, not for the DD250-2N.

---

I'd get one put on if I were you. Made a whole world of difference when I got the second cable installed on my Honda Rebel. Should be a fairly cheap mod up on Jaoji Lu if they can't do it at the Regal Raptor shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nuhaus

I'd get one put on if I were you. Made a whole world of difference when I got the second cable installed on my Honda Rebel. Should be a fairly cheap mod up on Jaoji Lu if they can't do it at the Regal Raptor shop.

---

Thanks Nuhaus! Could you describe the improvement with some details? Is the output control more sensitive, or anything else?

Here's the push-pull cable set-up on a modern Hinckley Triumph Bonneville. Note the top cable uses the same teardrop shaped retention clip and the bottom cable uses a theaded ferrule.

Attachment 5074

Keep in mind that your carburetor or EFI throttle body -must- be already set-up to accept the second cable. Typically there is a circular plate on the throttle shaft on which both cables wrap around it, in opposing directions of course. My DF250RTB bobber with its Walbro carb for example, has two cables attached to the carb. However in the DF's case, the second cable on the side actuates an accelerator pump, whereas the cable on the top of the carb operates the slide (air valve) and needle. The two cables merge together under the fuel tank with a cable spliter.

/Mike

Surely the most noticeable thing about push-pull cabling is that deceleration is far more positive than passive, which gives better engine braking if you've properly downshifted.

Bottom line: better engine control.

Cheers

OK Mike, thanks, the picture is quite clear. Normally, if there is only one cable, the job is done by a "pull back" spring. In case of the double cable configuration, do you have a pull back spring at the throttle, too? If not, the force needed to turn the grip would be reduced, but does the throttle close sufficiently without the spring?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BellaCorse

Keep in mind that your carburetor or EFI throttle body -must- be already set-up to accept the second cable. Typically there is a circular plate on the throttle shaft on which both cables wrap around it, in opposing directions of course. My DF250RTB bobber with its Walbro carb for example, has two cables attached to the carb. However in the DF's case, the second cable on the side actuates an accelerator pump, whereas the cable on the top of the carb operates the slide (air valve) and needle. The two cables merge together under the fuel tank with a cable spliter.[/SIZE]

/Mike

---

Yes, this is clear to me. therefore I have checked the situation on the Raptor already. There is only a single disc (accomodation for the cable) on the throttle shaft. So, a mod of the shaft would be needed, too, not only in the grip.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

Surely the most noticeable thing about push-pull cabling is that deceleration is far more positive than passive, which gives better engine braking if you've properly downshifted.

Bottom line: better engine control.

Cheers

---

Hey Euphonius, this is what I think, too. Anyway, the engine braking behavior of the Raptor is quite good already. It is difficult to foresee, how the change would be. Therefore I aksed Nuhaus for some more info as he has the experience on the Rebel before and after.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by macieq

Thanks Nuhaus! Could you describe the improvement with some details? Is the output control more sensitive, or anything else?

---

Yes I found throttle control to be much more responsive, especially when decelerating. My mechanic was entirely surprised when he first saw that my bike did not have it installed in the first place. He said it wasn't safe and that the throttle could get stuck. I hadn't noticed it before he pointed it out but after it was installed I definitely noticed a difference.

However, I Just remembered that your bike is Efi, not carb like mine. Therefore the behavior could be entirely different (although it has a similar parallel twin motor). Sorry for the confusion. Have you checked out any other RR Efi bikes? It may be more trouble than it's worth to mod such a bike with a second cable, especially when your bike is still under warranty.

Hey Nuhaus,

Yes we have compared with Dan's RR (also EFI) and there is no second cable. I also saw and older RR with carbs at the said store on Sunday and that one had 2 cables. I explicitly poinetd it to the mechanics and understood from his geistures that it is intentional.

For what it's worth, our 600cc Jialings with EFI also have single throttle cables, not a dual push-pull system. I can only speculate as to why EFI systems might be more tolerant of the single cable system. Though I've never opened the throttle valve (节气阀 jieqifa), the exploded diagram shows that the throttle cable does nothing more than throw open a butterfly valve, thus allowing air into the chamber for mixing with injected fuel. The mixture then is sucked into the cylinder when the intake valve opens and the piston recedes, creating vacuum. This is basically the same as what happens in a carburetor, though a carb has more mechanical things going on inside with a float chamber and floats, etc. So perhaps there are more places that can get gummed up, thus creating friction that could cause the butterfly valve to close less responsively under spring force.

As of now, I get very good engine braking just by downshifting and then rolling off the throttle. Not sure the second cable would make a huge difference, but it might.

Anyone have any ideas why EFI might be less demanding of a second cable to positively pull the throttle valve shut? MJH?

cheers

Dear all,

my name is ario, form Indonesia, i am also use Regal Raptor NAC 25, i would like to modified my carburetor, did anyone know what is applicable carb for RR NAC 25, thanks

A