Plates in Beijing

First of all; thanks to My china Moto for a great initiativ.

I've been living in China for four years, but just arrived here in Beijing. I've been driving a 150 cc Honda Fighthawk in Haikou City kHainan Island for three years and I have the Chinese driving license for Motorbikes and Cars.

Now I'm here in Beijing, and I'm a bit lost how to proceed. I would really like to buy a 250 cc streetbike, but there seem to be an issue here with plates. Jing A, Jing B and so on.

I checked out a page called www.beijingriders.com, but found that the price range for the bikes were about 2000 over the prices that I'm used to, and the price for a Jing A plate was 21.000 RMB(I found the price to be around 12.000 RMB on another link).

I have some basic questions and I really hope that some of you experienced guy's can help me out with some clear answers:

1. What is the difference between Jing A and Jing B when it comes to were you can drive legally? (I read that Jing A could get you so far as to the second ring road with some restictions. Is this true, and are the restricted areas many?)

2. What is the price for Jing A?

3. Where can you buy Jing A?

4. Is there a special period the Jing A plates are valid, or is it infinit?

5. Can you sell the Jing A plates when you don't need them anymore?


6. Is there a place in Beijing where there are a lot of bikestores and many choices(like a motorcity)? Are there any honest dealers were you can buy motorbikes and plates to fair prices, and that does the registrationproceedure for you?

I really want to get a bike here, and will do so if there is a way not too complecated and that will let me drive through the main parts of the city. Hope you can help me-) Thanks a lot.

Esten

Gday and welcome to MCM.
Cant help you with you questions but I'm sure someone on here can.
Enjoy the forum...

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Originally Posted by Esten

I've been living in China for four years, but just arrived here in Beijing. I've been driving a 150 cc Honda Fighthawk in Haikou City kHainan Island for three years and I have the Chinese driving license for Motorbikes and Cars.

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Welcome to MCM and Beijing! I wouldn't mind chatting with you over coffee re Hainan. I've just purchased a motorcycle-related business on the island. And I'm sure everyone here would be quite interested in your experiences with the Honda Fighthawk. That is an interesting bike.

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Originally Posted by Esten

I checked out a page called www.beijingriders.com, but found that the price range for the bikes were about 2000 over the prices that I'm used to, and the price for a Jing A plate was 21.000 RMB(I found the price to be around 12.000 RMB on another link).

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I have very little firsthand knowledge about beijingriders, although I've heard several mixed reviews from people. Mostly tilting towards the unpleasant.

The price for 京A plates is currently around 22,000 rmb. Well, it was a few weeks ago. The price is rising weekly. Last October it was 8,000, in March it was 13,000. This is the price direct from one of the agents that deal in the plates. Many dealers will add a large "profit" to the end consumer, even though all the dealer does is telephone the exact same agent you or I can. One dealer is charging 30,000 rmb for a 京A plate.

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Originally Posted by Esten

1. What is the difference between Jing A and Jing B when it comes to were you can drive legally? (I read that Jing A could get you so far as to the second ring road with some restictions. Is this true, and are the restricted areas many?)

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京A plates can go anywhere in Beijing EXCEPT on the ring roads (2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th), although you can ride on the side roads alongside each of the ring roads. You also cannot ride on Chang An (from the Eastern end at the East 3rd ring road intersection to the Western end at the West 3rd ring road intersection) between the hours of 0700 and 2000 hrs.

京B plates cannot ride inside the 4th ring road at any time.

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Originally Posted by Esten

2. What is the price for Jing A?

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It is about 22,000 rmb from an agent. But some shops might get angry if you don't buy through them, as it cuts the cream (especially of you are a foreigner), and the shop actually may not want to sell you a bike (profit on a new 125 bike is only a few hundred rmb).

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Originally Posted by Esten

3. Where can you buy Jing A?

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Through a legal, licensed dealer; through an agent; or if you are adventurous (and willing to endure punishment), you can actually do it yourself by finding an old scrap bike with a legal plate and go through the scrapping process (not recommended) and have the plate available for your new bike.

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Originally Posted by Esten

4. Is there a special period the Jing A plates are valid, or is it infinit?

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This is a little confusing for people. 京A and 京B plates on an individual bike are valid for a total of 11 years, starting from the initial registration of the new bike. After that 11 year period, the bike MUST be scrapped, but the plate can then be transferred over to a new, legal bike (within 6 months after scrapping). So, in theory, the plate is good forever, as long as you keep changing the bike at least every 11 years, and making sure you transfer the plate within that 6 month period (otherwise, the plate becomes invalid).

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Originally Posted by Esten

5. Can you sell the Jing A plates when you don't need them anymore?

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You can sell the bike with the plate. The plate becomes part of the bike's registration and can't be separated for the first 3 years. However, if you've owned the bike for at least 3 years, you can separate them ... use the plate for a new bike (within 6 months), and sell the bike separately outside of Beijing (that bike cannot be re-registered inside Beijing). This is complicated, but can be done. And there are many twists in the rules (e.g., if your residence changes from inside the 4th ring road to outside, or vice versa). With little bikes worth a few thousand rmb, the plates almost always stay with the bike because the process of separation is convoluted and time-consuming and expensive. It is with the relatively recent phenomenon of expensive Harleys, BMWs, Ducattis coming onto the scene that plate / bike separation is becoming an issue.

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Originally Posted by Esten

6. Is there a place in Beijing where there are a lot of bikestores and many choices(like a motorcity)? Are there any honest dealers were you can buy motorbikes and plates to fair prices, and that does the registrationproceedure for you?

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No, unfortunately there is no grouping of motorcycle shops in Beijing. They are scattered all over the city and many are quite difficult to find. It is a royal PITA. Years ago, there used to be a grouping next to Tsinghua University (NW Beijing ... in WDK), but they have pretty much been shut down and scattered around.

An "honest dealer"? Well, TIC, so it is all relative. You are not going to find the same level of service or honesty that you would find back home. Personally, I have had good experiences with one or two dealers, although friends have had horrible experiences with those same dealers. And vice versa - dealers people say are great have ripped me off blind. I won't recommend anyone any more, although I will give frank appraisals, face to face, of my experiences.

Good luck!

[QUOTE=Lao Jia Hou;32812]Welcome to MCM and Beijing! I wouldn't mind chatting with you over coffee re Hainan. I've just purchased a motorcycle-related business on the island. And I'm sure everyone here would be quite interested in your experiences with the Honda Fighthawk. That is an interesting bike.

Hi,

When I wrote in yesterday I honestly didn't know what to expect, or if I would even get an answer. To my positive suprise I got an answer and it was far more thorough and helpful than I would ever imagine. I was actually served a quick handbook for how to buy bike in Beijing. Thank you Lao Jia Hou!

LJH, awesome FAQ that deserves to be a sticky, whatever that means.

Of particular importance, especially if the concept is universal, is your explanation about the lifespan of the plate. This is the first time I've heard it definitively asserted that the legal holder of a plate may retain ownership of the plate after mandatory scrapping of a bike (subject to applying it to a new bike, of course). This casts our pricey Shanghai plates in a lovely new light; assuming I keep riding for many more decades, I can amortize the price of the plate over much more than the 11-year legal lifespan of my JH600, and not worry that if, say, I sell the JH after five years that the plate will have lost a portion of its value because it's closer to its "use by" date.

In other words, under the scenario you've painted, the pricey plate can happily continue to appreciate even as the bike depreciates. A very happy thought!!

Now if we could just get the same assurances about the 70- or 90-year "land use rights" that underlie any real property that we purchase here in the Chinese-characteristics paradise! (Not that it will matter to me personally, given the current actuarial realities...)

Also, on the subject on universality of these plating rules, given that our plate "pricing" here in Shanghai seems to be fully market based, via monthly public plate auctions, I will assume that none of this nonsense about having to keep a plate registered to a particular bike for three years before transferring it to another bike applies to us down here. I've never heard of such a thing and, in fact, ryanjpyle successfully sold brother Colin's MKRide F800GS and its plate to separate buyers in separate transactions after less than one year of ownership. No one batted an eye at that, and both bike and plate commanded a healthy market price.

Seems our Chinese characteristics are more subtle in the endless city.

Thanks again!!

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Of particular importance, especially if the concept is universal, is your explanation about the lifespan of the plate. This is the first time I've heard it definitively asserted that the legal holder of a plate may retain ownership of the plate after mandatory scrapping of a bike (subject to applying it to a new bike, of course). This casts our pricey Shanghai plates in a lovely new light; assuming I keep riding for many more decades, I can amortize the price of the plate over much more than the 11-year legal lifespan of my JH600, and not worry that if, say, I sell the JH after five years that the plate will have lost a portion of its value because it's closer to its "use by" date.

In other words, under the scenario you've painted, the pricey plate can happily continue to appreciate even as the bike depreciates. A very happy thought!!

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I wonder what will happen to the expensive bikes. Under the current 11 year scrapping policy, a model year 2000 Harley FLHTCU would need to be scrapped as worthless this year, to retain ownership of the plate. I think the first year that big imported bikes came into Beijing (legally) was 2004 (BMW, I think, but may be wrong), so 2015 will be an interesting year.

As for the actuarial realities ... huh? We are bikers! We are immortal!

Perhaps there will be extensions? Or perhaps "directional scrapping," i.e., "scrap the bike to Jiangsu" where it gets licensed for another 11 years...

TIC.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

I've just purchased a motorcycle-related business on the island.

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tell us more please. Ride safe, Pal

Its good to be able to understand the difference between Jing A and B plates but in reality i so often see Jing B plated bikes around where I live near Chaoyangmen Bridge.

So i was wondering in reality what actually might happen if you have a B plated bike and get pulled over by police?

To be honest I see them more focused about cars than bikes

A fine?
Bike Taken away?
I know TIC and there will be no specific answer but I have seen so many bikes recently around here just on B plates think maybe the risk of a fine or Hassle may be a better option than paying such a high price for a A plate?

Any views?

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Originally Posted by Astroboy66

So i was wondering in reality what actually might happen if you have a B plated bike and get pulled over by police?

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If you have a legal B plated bike inside the 4th ring road, and the police want to fine you, I've heard that it is somewhere between 100 and 300 rmb. I've heard mixed stories about whether they can also put 3 points on your driving license. I have heard from someone who just got nabbed and was fined 103 rmb (yes, I know ... ridiculous) and told they have 3 hours to get back outside the 4th ring road.

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Originally Posted by Astroboy66

To be honest I see them more focused about cars than bikes

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Yes, that is what these "campaigns" have been focusing on.

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Originally Posted by Astroboy66

Bike Taken away?

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No, not if it is a legal B plate. They cannot seize it.

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Originally Posted by Astroboy66

paying such a high price for a A plate?

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Actually, it is an investment - you get your money back when you sell the bike. Probably much more than you paid for the plate.

Look at it this way - back home, we pay 7,000 to 20,000 rmb each year ($1,000 to $3,000) for a bike's insurance. At the end of the year, you don't get a refund ... and you have to pay again.

Here, insurance is a paltry 100 to 200 rmb. The plate costs 20,000 rmb but you get the money back ... and perhaps much more.

And you don't have any worries.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Actually, it is an investment - you get your money back when you sell the bike. Probably much more than you paid for the plate.

The plate costs 20,000 rmb but you get the money back ... and perhaps much more.

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I have tried to sell my BJ plated car in April 2011. The achievable price for the 2.0 TSI/DSG Magotan with all options, newly bought for 245k RMB in December 2009 was, due to the collapse of the used car market as a result of the silly luck draw system, down to 130-140k. I thought the plate could make up for the loss of value, but... As soon as a BJ plated car is sold, the registration (plates) is revoked and you have to queue for the lucky draw. Only if the old car / bike is scrapped or re-registered in another province, you can save your registration right.
A friend of mine in BJ owned a legal GS, bought a new legal GS and wasn't able to transfer the plate from the old to the new bike.

Today and to my very recent experience, the only ways to make profit from BJ plates are to sell the vehicle without registration change (but who would be so stupid) or to sell the plates and docs to the black market (I received offers).

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

I have tried to sell my BJ plated car in April 2011

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Yes, Andy ... a car plate has been a disaster for many foreigners in Beijing since the introduction of the lottery system. There are several stories of cars getting 10% - 20% of the pre-lottery value.

Through shere luck (no foresight), I had sold my Audi & my Jeep mid last year (prior to the lottery system for cars). I sold them because of the madhouse traffic & 1,000/month parking fees.

But car plates and bike plates are two entirely different things. My car plates were only a few hundred rmb, if that, on initial registration. (Audi was brand new; Jeep was a two-year old used).

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

Only if the old car / bike is scrapped or re-registered in another province, you can save your registration right.

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There are some rules in Beijing about that, also. For bikes, it is a 3 year ownership. For cars, I am not sure, although I've been told that it is somewhat similar. My Audi was a 2009 and I was told that I was damn lucky to have sold it mid 2010 because I would not have been able to now.

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

A friend of mine in BJ owned a legal GS, bought a new legal GS and wasn't able to transfer the plate from the old to the new bike.

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If he owned the "old" GS for less than 3 years, that is true (for an A plate). If he owned it for more than 3 years, he can transfer the plate and sell the "old" GS outside Beijing.

Perhaps he should contact the TMB for direction. You can now email the TMB, in English, and it will give you a quick response to any questions. A good agent will also be able to help.

Edit - why didn't he just sell his original GS with its A plate, and get the new GS with a new A plate? It's a wash, regardless of what the current market price is for an A plate. Except, of course, if he plates it through the BMW dealer (it adds a big profit to plates).

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

Today and to my very recent experience, the only ways to make profit from BJ plates are to sell the vehicle without registration change (but who would be so stupid) or to sell the plates and docs to the black market (I received offers).

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Sorry, I am not sure what you're getting at.

Last summer, I bought my sweety a 125 scooter ... paid 5,000 for the scooter and 8,000 for the A plate ... taxes, fees, etc made the total about 14,000 rmb. That same scooter, used, today, is selling for at least 22,000 in the market. The plate alone is 20K to 22K rmb, and that is the value.

Checking 58.com, you can see that used YBR250s are selling for >40K now (were 30K new, with plate last year).

Naturally, one would transfer ownership upon sale.

Unlike Shanghai, bikes & cars are two completely different plating scenarios.

If I'd had a crystal ball, I would've bought 100 "A" plates last summer, and had a 125% return on each within less than a year.

I guess we are all at the mercy of BJ Gov policy when i comes to value
I sold my car in SH plate purchased for 28k but when sold with car made up value even after 2 years ownership as plates were at that time around 45K crazy IMHO

Still i guess if we can all be sure bike plates stay as they are for now different to cars the investment is ok but I do worry what happens if law changes and my 20k plate suddenly changes to 20rmb :-0

I guess it the luck of the draw but I would rather be legal than not so think its a no brainer i need a A jing plate.

So on that I have another question can shop can help to buy for me eg if i got from Qili would they help?
also what do i need to buy one? Obviously Passport , Visa, DL but what is the process or things to pay attention to in getting best price and doing it legally.

Astro

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Originally Posted by Astroboy66

I guess we are all at the mercy of BJ Gov policy when i comes to value ... I do worry what happens if law changes and my 20k plate suddenly changes to 20rmb :-0

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Ain't that the truth!

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Originally Posted by Astroboy66

So on that I have another question can shop can help to buy for me eg if i got from Qili would they help?
also what do i need to buy one? Obviously Passport , Visa, DL but what is the process or things to pay attention to in getting best price and doing it legally.

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Yes, Qili will do everything for you. It is a high volume dealer of legal bikes, with small margins. You need to supply your passport, Temporary Residency Permit, a > 6 month visa, and some cash for the deposit. You will pay the balance when you pick up the plated bike. The whole process is very simple when you have Qili do it. Try to go mid-week as it gets very busy on weekends.

Best price? Qili works on volume and doesn't really give discounts. I've comparison priced identical bikes at various dealers and found Qili has always been lowest (for Beijing).

Good luck & feel free to call me if you need help.