China ride

Hello

I've been lurking for a few weeks taking in the conversations that may or may not help me accomplish a China ride.
I want to ride my 1914 Harley Davidson 10E single speed from Shanghai to Guilin and back to Shanghai in September of 2012.
I'v chatted with Jack at HD Beijing and he as been very warm and helpful to this point.

Whilst the posted scenery and back roads look like everything I would expect, and more, the trials of getting all the correct paperwork appear to be almost impossible.
My hope is to invite and have a english speaking chinese motorcyclist ride with me for the approximately two week ride.
I would appreciate any ideas from you riders out there.
I'm working with a shipping agent to get the bike in and out of the country, even that is beginning to look like a major challenge.
Last year I rode the bike, alone from Manhattan New York to San Francisco, approx. 3800 miles so I'm not exactly a beginner.
Looking forward to your replies.
Thanks in advance

10E

hey 10e welcome and enjoy your trip
even if you cant speak chinese its no problem to travel here

if you have a basic phrase book or even a dictionary on your phone
you will be able to get gas , food , a place to sleep and whatever else you may need

so just come and enjoy
good luck with the import process

Hi 10e,

Good luck on your ride prep. Dream rides keep us up at night (the excitement/anticipation), and with China the "mafan" (trouble) can keep you up at night when trying to sort out the details!

Your post was looking for "ideas". Can you be specific for what you're looking for? Maybe you can bullet point the things that you're struggling with most (but of course please first take the time to use MCM's exiting threads to help you out - as you mentioned already).

One bullet point would be the Driver's License (again, lots of info already here on that issue so please check). Do you already have a Chinese Driver's License/plan to get one, or ride illegally? I would caution against riding without a license in China....see the many EXISTING threads on this.

Hello
Thanks for the friendly responses, it really helps.
MotKal, you hit the nail on the head. A lot of the fun, and frustration, is in planning the trip. I spent a year both working over and riding the bike, sometimes going out for three day rides and planning the journey across the country. I blew an engine before I even got started, good thing in the end.
I have been reading all the posts on drivers licenses, insurance, driving conditions in towns(the plan is to stay clear of large cities and large towns if at all possible) police encounters etc.
I'm at a time in life when I'm passed the "I want to be in the revolution" and stupid fun stage. I want to ride and enjoy the people and scenery hence going
with all the right papers is the only way to go for me. I'm not against taken some calculated risks but not something that would end the trip. Maybe its an advantage? :-) but I'll be 70 years old if I make the trip.
The bullets.

Getting the bike in and out of Shanghai. I'm working with shipping agents who are somewhat familiar with this situation. Hopefully this will workout.

Visa-- Don't think that will be a problem.

Drivers License. Totally confused about this. From "I've ridden in China without a license with no problems" to " They put me in jail and impounded my bike"
I am on a tight schedule due to other commitments.
Can I drive on my California license or if I have to have chinese license, to prevent problems, can I get it quickly, including working on the 1500 questions whilst in California.

Insurance. Very important. How would I get this in Shanghai when i arrived there and how much would it cost.
Will check if I can get coverage from here.
Travel Companion. I mentioned this because I feel I would get a lot more out of the ride traveling with someone who speaks the native language and also because we will be traveling on minor roads (national) taking wrong turns sometimes leads to wonderful experiences but can wreck schedules. Unfortunately I don't have have an open ended time schedule. Bad.
I hope there is someone out there who would like to come on a two week run --Shanghai Guilin and back.

The route No idea at this point. Just want to be away from cities and large towns.
Travel a different route going to Guilin than coming back.
The bike is a single speed but as climbed the 8,400 ft Kit Carson Pass ok Hills and mountains need to be taken into account with this bike.
What is the highest pass between Shanghai and Guilin.


I'll leave it there for now and hope you can all help.

Thanks again

10e

Welcome 10E ... super cool and quite ambitious!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10e

Drivers License. Totally confused about this. From "I've ridden in China without a license with no problems" to " They put me in jail and impounded my bike"
I am on a tight schedule due to other commitments.
Can I drive on my California license or if I have to have chinese license, to prevent problems, can I get it quickly, including working on the 1500 questions whilst in California.

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Messy can of worms here.

The "rules" ...
1) You need a visa valid for > 90 days to qualify for a Chinese DL (this is doable), BUT, the process of getting a Chinese DL (translation of CA license/medical/scheduling exam/writing exam/getting actual license) will often consume 3 or 4 weeks of your initial time in China.
2) There is a "temporary DL" available (for those on a 90 days or less visa) ... but don't let anyone try to tell you it is ok for motorcycles. It is a highly restrictive DL that is only valid for rental cars from approved rental agencies, and only within a narrow geographical location. Some argue that this temp license is better than no license - maybe it is, maybe it isn't. You're at the mercy of the "investigating officer."
3) A special "motorcycle tour" license is available in a few areas of China ... but that won't apply in your case (you need accompanying Chinese guides who are licensed to guide foreign tourists, pre-approval of route, etc, etc, etc).
4) Your CA license would not be valid, nor would an International Driving Permit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10e

Insurance. Very important. How would I get this in Shanghai when i arrived there and how much would it cost.
Will check if I can get coverage from here.

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Vehicle insurance is amazingly easy and inexpensive - probably only a few hundred rmb for your bike. Available at almost any of the big insurance offices.

Health insurance is definitely required and it is prohibitively expensive for foreigners in China - get good international coverage back home, or online.

Finally, bringing the bike into China (if that can actually be done by the shipping agent) raises the issue of getting a plate on the bike after it arrives. I am not sure if the agent would have that ability.

PS: I am gaining a little experience with getting "special permission" to bring bikes & people into China (from Hong Kong) for a "special ride", but that is very restricted and convoluted, and it is only for one province (Hainan). You would need "special permission" for multiple provinces (each is their own little kingdom) in your tour - a very tough thing to accomplish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

You would need "special permission" for multiple provinces (each is their own little kingdom) in your tour - a very tough thing to accomplish.

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And correct me if I'm wrong...but I recall reading here or off MCM that the only way to accomplish this is with being accompanied by an "official" Chinese guide - this would be your companion, and all expenses and fees need will be paid by the rider. (Sound familiar to anyone here?)

Lao Jia hou
Thanks a lot for the information. Having read much of the threads on the forum, it's a little mind numbing, I must say what you have said seems to make a whole lot of common sense.

Ironically, when I crossed the U.S. on the bike I only talked to one policeman in two weeks of riding. I was transferring gas from the rear tank to the front tank on the side of the road, he stopped, on the road, didn't even pull in behind me, rolled down his window said "are you ok" I said yes and he took off. Comical. Somehow I felt abandoned.
The plan seems pretty insurmountable at the moment but I will keep going a little while longer.
You might find this interesting. Google victor boocock It might make you smile.
Please keep it coming

10e

Some good advice and info from LJH, but as always, it really boils down to two solutions:

#1 Contact an official overland tour agency and spend a heap of cash having them handle the import arrangements, drivers license, registration, insurance & guide service.

#2 Take your bike apart, send it in boxes to Hong Kong, bring it across the border via a courier. Reassemble the bike and do your trip without license, reg, guide, or insurance.

The subject of non-resident foreigners riding here has been beaten to death, and the outcome is always the same. China doesn't want you, or your motorcycle, here, so they've made an outrageously expensive and structured solution for those wishing to undertake a legitimate overland China tour. This is why so many people have opted to go the illegal route (not recommended).

Just curious, why Shanghai to Guilin?

Cheers!
ChinaV

The only way I can see is that this bike being from 1914 and a single speed may be if you imported it as a motorized bicycle and claimed that it produced less power than a motorcycle, so could be driven legally without plates or a license, then get travel insurance from back home.

Otherwise it's China V +1.

An ambitious move may be to work out a "Heritage Ride" for Harley Davidson:
American guy on a Classic 1914 Harley Davidson 10E single speed will ride from Shanghai to Guilin

http://www.warrs.com/harley-davidson...SilentGray.JPG

* I see that link, I'm In!
:popcorn:

If you can get them to sort out the legal issues for you, and help arrange for the Official Chinese Guide (this should be a guy riding a 2011 Harley along with you), the PR value you provide HD in return from news articles, blogs, posts, and media exposure during your Start/Finish, would prove very valuable for their marketing efforts in China. Did you spin it this way to your contact in Beijing HD? What about the SH guys?

Here are some "Classic Car" links that you can use as reference to support for your Classic Harley pitch:
China Holds First Classic Car Rally
Peking to Paris 2013

I very much agree with Motokai that your best bet for pulling this off would be to organize it through Harley-Davidson, let them sponsor the temporary import and possibly even some of your travel. The PR value to their campaign of building respect for the brand and for recreational (vis a vis agricultural) motorcycling would be enormous, as this ride could attract huge media coverage.

I'll PM you a name to contact, and if you'd like I can make an introduction.

I enjoyed the videos of your transcontinental ride! You aren't one of those legendary British "eccentrics" are you?

Good Luck!

Yes, what Motokai & Euphonius suggest is probably the ticket.

I have heard this from several official sources, and also have a little personal experience with it - organize some unique tour that is a win-win situation, and doors will slowly start opening. Especially if there is positive media coverage.

A classic bike tour might be the way in. Include some Chinese classics, maybe a BMW classic, perhaps a Ducati classic (i.e., bikes with a presence in China), and it can probably be put together. I'm chasing a very specific classic XingFu 250 and, if I can convince the stubborn/crotchety owner to sell, I'd be thrilled to join you.

Under these circumstances, all the "special permissions" can fall into place through the central Beijing authorities. In China, Beijing is considered the center of the universe, so the various provinces wouldn't give anyone any hassles, if you have the infamous Beijing "red chop". One strange requirement (as I have just learned from one project) is that you'd probably have to fly a "friendship flag" from the bike.

The Harley distributor for China might be a good initial point of contact. Or, if you are a member of H.O.G., it can certainly help you out (HOG China). I just read an article in HOG Tales about a couple of Harley Ultras riding to Tibet (Everest Base Camp). They like that stuff here.

But, doing it independently, as ChinaV notes, is going to be extremely difficult (I'd guess practically impossible) ... or illegal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

China doesn't want you, or your motorcycle, here, so they've made an outrageously expensive and structured solution for those wishing to undertake a legitimate overland China tour. This is why so many people have opted to go the illegal route (not recommended).


Cheers!
ChinaV

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Or they just opt not to come here at all and bypass China completely.

China the next superpower nation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

I'm chasing a very specific classic XingFu 250 and, if I can convince the stubborn/crotchety owner to sell, I'd be thrilled to join you.

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Putting down the :popcorn: and joining this heritage ride!

I'm on a 1963 Moto Guzzi Falcone Sport w/ 499cc OHV single (yet to be sourced of course).
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/up...zzi-Falcon.jpg
euphonius, ChinaV, Felix what are you riding?

My apologies to 10e for usurping this thread (and his ride), but WOW = great idea!

OK, creative juices flowing now, and threads merging. Wonder what was Jialing's earliest bike? Probably a sidecar and probably military. Hopefully from the 1950s. Can any of you oft-stalling JH600 owners spell I-N-G-R-A-T-I-A-T-E?

:riding:

Hi again 10e

Here is a somewhat dated (2009) example of a "classic bike tour" in Xinjiang Province (NW China)

http://news.163.com/09/0609/18/5BCT494P00011229.html

The report is in Chinese, but Google can perform a basic translation for you. The report quotes a senior Xinjiang official as commenting about "support for activities that promote healthy tourism." That is very true - the most recent China 5 year plan articulates strong support for inbound tourism. You can also see the "friendship flags."

Staying inside one province is easier than crossing provincial borders, because then you just have to deal with one province's authorities. There is, however, a Beijing tourism authority whose job it is to facilitate/coordinate such crossings. This authority can also facilitate special importations, permits and driving licenses. One needs a comprehensive travel plan, however, before approaching the Beijing authorities. As noted earlier, I've just gone through the process for a MC activity in southern China for "foreigners" from Hong Kong, Europe and the Americas.

It helps to have the support / endorsement of recognized groups in China. My guess is that H.O.G. (China) would be your best bet, and although I cannot speak directly for it, I am sure it would be receptive. But to get the assistance of Beijing authorities (supported by recognized groups), you'd probably need some spin - e.g., classic bike tour - and probably with at least 6 riders on obvious classics. "Old foreigners on old bikes" would probably strike the right chord with the right people.

Here is the HOG website:

http://www.hogchina.cn/

I'm a member, if you need help/intros.

It can be done, but most probably not independently. Independent riding is currently reserved for native Chinese (like this cool old guy):

http://news.163.com/11/1025/10/7H71L9M600011229.html

or long-term foreign residents (reference Ride Reports on this site).

PS: Euphonius - I saw one of Jailing's earliest efforts at a museum in Beijing - a 12 cc motorized bicycle (without EFI). Very cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

OK, creative juices flowing now, and threads merging. Wonder what was Jialing's earliest bike? Probably a sidecar and probably military. Hopefully from the 1950s. Can any of you oft-stalling JH600 owners spell I-N-G-R-A-T-I-A-T-E?

:riding:

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Euphonius
Can you PM me. I am having trouble getting on the site.
Hope this makes it.

10e

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphonius

OK, creative juices flowing now, and threads merging. Wonder what was Jialing's earliest bike? Probably a sidecar and probably military. Hopefully from the 1950s.

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First civilian Jialing was produced in 1979:
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...5903#post35903

Let me know if you find an earlier military bike, please let us know!

Hello
Thank you Lao for the detailed information. It is all very helpful and very educational.
I have been talking to euphonius. He as been very helpful and a couple of ideas are being tried which may take a little time to resolve one way or another. I'm still trying to make this work even though it is not easy.

I wrote a slightly detailed e-mail that didn't make onto the site discussing the pre-16 rides we do here in California.

They are typically 3day events out in the boonies. We truck the bikes to the start point and then ride different routes each day.
A friend a I have organized such an event out of King City CA. I can tell you from experience that keeping these old bikes running for 3 days let alone 2 weeks is no mean feat.
So get those old bikes in good shape for the chinese heritage ride.

I road my bike almost 4000 miles around Northern California debugging it before I attempted the cross US ride. The preparation paid off.
Keep up the posts

Thanks again
10e

Dear 10e,

Please feel free to email to me the information you'd like to post, and I'll post it up. Pictures most welcome.

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

I'm chasing a very specific classic XingFu 250 and, if I can convince the stubborn/crotchety owner to sell, I'd be thrilled to join you.

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Are you talking about these: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9178266795 ? Love the looks of them. Would be interesting to see how it is to ride them...