Fred's YBR 250 ;-))

AT LAST !!

I have to pinch myself too, I finally got the bike 2 weeks ago at my place, after a 3 months wait.

I'll try to keep this thread about the bike, not about all the troubles I had and still have with the shop and the bike itself.
To summarize quickly those troubles (and then focus later on on the bike) :
- 2 months for the bike to arrive at the shop
- 1 more month without the bike, with the shop laoban terribly unorganized, leading to many many yellings, many threats, in order to do all the paperwork for the selling of the previous bike, ownership change, the plates transfer, etc. .
- damaged tank and plastic on the right side : tank changed now, still waiting for the new plastic cover...
- after 1st test of the bike in the street : crooked steering (handlebars not straight in order for the bike to go straight !). They change the handlebars, which helped some, but I still feel something is slightly wrong. I seem to see that the 2 tubes of the fork are not completely parallel, but I need a bit more time on the bike to be really sure. Clearly not what you expect from a new bike...

Needless to say that after all that I inspected very very very carefully all the bike. I cannot spot any other problem, the bike is for sure new for those who wonder. Did 180km with it, no complain at all except the steering thing, which I'm not really sure of yet.


Now to the bike and my review so far !

(I know, I know, this thread is useless without pics, but unfortunately I only took pics of it when I brought her home, in the dark, and there're quite useless... I'll shoot a few for you guys this week.)

I took a red one, because it's obvious that they're faster, period. :lol8:
What a change from the Honda-Sundiro "Shadow" 150cc ! The riding position, the power, the good feeling from the tires even in the rain, whoah it's a completely new world for me.
Positive review from my GF too, and she hates bikes... :icon10: Seems more comfortable for her, that's good.

When I was riding the 150cc, which is a "cruiser style" in terms of riding position, I always felt a little bit awkward when trying to lean, my body was fighting the lean at first and even after 5,000km on it, I was not sure of my body position when leaning the bike. I was starting to wonder if maybe it was not something "natural" for me.
Now with the YBR it all disappeared very quickly ! The position is much better to take corners, your body just flows with the bike, I feel I will be able to lean much more when I will be used to this bike.

The power is nice after the 150cc, even though I'm in the break-in period (not over 5,000rpm for 1,000km). In 5th gear at 5,000rpm I go as fast as the top speed of the Honda 150cc before...

The storage space under the seat (easily reachable with a lock under the seat) is a nice addtion compared to the 150cc, with enough space for the stock basic tools kit + a tubeless tire repair kit + a big heavy chain lock + a disk lock.

I don't know if it's a good thing yet, but the red YBR attracts a lot more attention than the black Honda 150cc which looked like a moto-taxi. Needless to say that 99,99% of the questions asked are about the price...

From what I felt (only 180km), the Sakura tires are much more confidence inspiring than the ones I used to have on the 150 (Cheng Shin). Of course they're fatter, but I think the rubber quality is better too.


For an urban bike I think it's a very good choice (power and featherweight), I don't need more than this, especially in China.
For a touring bike (as it will be for me), sure you can find bigger (JH600) but I think it'll be more than enough for me with the right bags. A big plus is the range with a quite impressive fuel tank (19 liters, bigger than a lot of much bigger bikes), coupled with a 250cc engine, which means close to 600km autonomy (in theory, I didn't test yet), pretty impressive.

There it is for the 1st review, I need to sort out this "problem" of the front fork and ride more to evaluate it better.
And of course, to snap pics for you guys ! :mwink:

Hi Fred,

Congratulations! And yes, red bikes are faster.
I'm sorry to hear about your steering wenti, I'm quite sure it's related to the drop that also damaged the tank. Shit happens, unfortunately.

Waiting for the pictures!

Congratulations Fred! Hopefully you can enjoy your bike a bit more before the real cold hits Shanghai.

Being quite tall myself I feel like everything smaller than a JH600 is like a kids bike for me now. I doubt they make any bikes my size :eek2:

Barry, that's a good point I forgot to make : I stand much taller now on the YBR 250 than on the "cruiser" style 150cc, and that's a very good thing to see the traffic ahead.
Even being 1m83 tall I don't feel like a frog (well, I'm French anyway... :lol8: ) on a pocket bike, which is nice too.

Dear Fred,

Thanks for the great review. The safety benefits of the upright riding position (vs laid-back cruiser position) cannot be overemphasized. In the standard position you are indeed up much higher and can see ahead, but if you want an even better view you can stand on the pegs. This is also useful when running on very bad pavement, or just to relieve cramping and the discomfort of sitting during long rides. I've said it before, and others will disagree, but given the dangers and risks here in China, I could never imagine accepting the semi-recumbent position of a cruiser or the semi-prostrate position of a sport bike on Chinese roads. Up high is good, and safest.

cheers!

Hey Fred, eagerly awaiting pics. How is the low speed turning on the bike? Do you notice any rattle or jitter coming from the front forks after coming to a hard stop?

Nuhaus, the low speed turning is fine I guess, to be honest I did not try it too much at very slow speed yet... :naughty:

About the rattle or jitter after a sudden halt, I don't really understand what you mean. Do you mean : when the forks are pushed down, do they come back up smoothly ?
Because I also want to "break-in" nicely the front disc, I tried not to do any heavy braking yet.

Pics for you, but I warned you, those are pics taken in the dark, so pretty bad quality...

Attachment 5689

Attachment 5690

Attachment 5691

Yeaaah....

Bike looks very clean in the photos. I don't see any damage at all. Sorry I wasn't more clear earlier, just thinking that if the shocks or triple tree were damaged you might feel something move slightly in the handlebars after a complete stop, when the forks come up after compressing.

Looking forward to some daytime photos!

Dear Fred,

Something is telling me that something more than a mere drop happened to this bike. If the tank was crushed and the front forks became misaligned, I'm wondering if something more violent occurred.

One thing that comes to mind, because I've actually seen this happen in the wild, is that the crate carrying the bike from the factory got dropped off a truck. When shipped, the front wheel is removed and the fork is bolted to the shipping frame, while the rear of the bike is strapped down with the wheel on. The front wheel, handlebar and other parts are generally zip-tied or lashed to the bike frame itself or to the shipping frame. (You can see this in Soberpete's writeup.) If the entire assembly falls or is dropped from some height, and especially if it lands hard on a corner of the crate/frame rather than landing flat, this puts all kinds of torsional stresses on the crate/frame, which very likely is transferred through to the bike. Since it's the fork that's attached to the shipping frame/crate, that logically would bear the brunt of those stresses.

I've watched a shipment of bikes being offloaded from a truck at a dealer in Kunming, and saw one crate dropped precisely in this manner. I did not stick around to see what condition the bike was in, but from the looks of the crate it could not have been a happy ending.

This could all be irrelevant to your case if the bike was already uncrated and on the showroom floor, unblemished, when you first saw it, and the damage showed up in a later viewing. But if you ordered your bike after seeing a pristine floor model, and your bike was already in the damaged state when you first set eyes on it, the possibility of such dealer-inflicted duress is not insubstantial. Either way, the bike they've given you was seriously damaged.

You've already put up with a lot, and are probably sick of bitching at the dealer, but if the front end is not true and you are feeling it in the ride, you should scream bloody murder until you get full redress.

Have you contacted the actual JV manufacturer, which I'm assuming is Jianshe Yamaha, or, better yet, Big Yamaha about this? That's where I'd go if you are getting any resistance or anything short of full cooperation from the dealer.

You paid full retail price for this bike, so you should not be tolerating or accepting damaged goods.

Just sayin'...

cheers

Hey Euphonius, thanks a lot for taking the time to write all this.

I understand what you mean, no way I'm giving up the fight, even though yes, it's really mafan after 3 months of yelling at the dealership...

This morning I'm going with 1 of the mechanic to the Traffic police bureau on Hami lu to get the final plates (I had temporary 1 month plates until now). It'll be a long paperwork process and it'll give me time to inspect the front of the bike much more, in daylight for once.
I'll check if the forks didn't turn on the T (to straighten the steering) or if there's another problem with the wheel alignment.

I'll update this thread when I know more. I'll be sure to ask for some technical info if needed too.
Thanks again.

Fred, I've been reading this thread for quite a while. Sounds like the dealer is an utter doosh. Anyhow it's impossible to see what's wrong with the bike for us on the internet.

Check all the bolts are tight on the front end first. You can do hard braking with a new brake system, it's the hard braking heat cycles that bed in the pads. Do some fairly hard stops on a smooth clean empty road to make sure the front end tracks straight. If you're feeling brave briefly remove your hands from the bar at speed to see if there is any wobble.

Sounds like the bike damage was known about by the dealer before he bought it and got a nice discount on the grounds he'd have to fix it.

As I go through everything which could cause the problem, can any ybr 250 owners tell me if they have a bolt at the bottom end of the left front fork, on the outside ? I don't but it maybe normal.

Perhaps a pic of where you think the missing bolt is would help us Fred.

If you're worried about the front end, put the bike on the centerstand, loosen all of the triple clamp bolts holding the forks, as well as the front axel. Put the front wheel between your legs and pull and push on the handlebars until things appear in alignment, then tighten everything back up. If the bike got dropped and the forks twisted, this should fix it. If they're still out of whack, you may have a bigger problem in the front end. One other thing to check is the front axel, it may be bent.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChinaV

Perhaps a pic of where you think the missing bolt is would help us Fred.

If you're worried about the front end, put the bike on the centerstand, loosen all of the triple clamp bolts holding the forks, as well as the front axel. Put the front wheel between your legs and pull and push on the handlebars until things appear in alignment, then tighten everything back up. If the bike got dropped and the forks twisted, this should fix it. If they're still out of whack, you may have a bigger problem in the front end. One other thing to check is the front axel, it may be bent.

Cheers!
ChinaV

---

Hehe, that's exactly what i wanted to do : the pic and the adjustment as you described, this is what I meant when I wrote that I'll check if the forks didn't turn in the T.
I took the pic with the mobile phone and intended to attach it when writing the post above, but I didn't succeed... So here it is now :
Attachment 5698
The quality is crap, and for some reason you have to click on it, it doesn't appear like the one below...
The question is for YBR 250 owners, do you have a bolt at the bottom end of the left fork (red circle), or just the end of the screw from the axle, without bolt ?

So, coming back from the Traffic Police bureau, I asked my mechanic to unscrew a bit the bolts (as ChinaV described basically) in order to straighten the steering, to see if it would solve the problem.
As soon as he took his tools and prepared to loosen the fist bolt, we saw at the same time one problem that we didn't spot before in the dark : the left fork tube was tighten a little bit higher than the right one.
I'll try to explain in a better way : the top part of each tube ends at the T, the metal part where the handlebars are attached too. Well, the top of the left tube was higher there than the right one. Not by a lot, maybe 2-3mm, but maybe enough to "disturb" the steering and my feeling through the handlebars.
He loosened everything, and put everything back at the exact same height, we both checked it. I tried the bike, then went home with it.

Now, the "steering" problem was very very slight to begin with, but I usually feel very tiny changes or problems like that. Now, after this "fix", I cannot tell yet. I seem to feel that it's ok now, but I need more time on the bike to be sure. Right now it's raining, people are driving as usual (like major asses), I have a headache, so I'll check this a little bit later.

Euphonius, this kind of problem with one fork slightly higher than the other at the T is consistent with what you describe : a fall on the fork when the bike was without a front wheel. But the thing is that the left fork was higher, which could mean an impact of the bottom of the left fork. But the dent in the tank and the broken plastic cover were on the right side, and consistent with an object impacting the bike while upstraight. Moreover, there're no others impacts or scratches on the right side...

Let me add a pic of the dent on the tank and the broken plastic that I took at the time.
Attachment 5700

The dent is vertical, maybe the bike fell on something with the same shape, but as I wrote, nothing else has scratches.

Right now I'm just relieved a bit : I finally have the plates on the bike and the problem seems to be ok. I hope it's just that...

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help guys, I'll update you ASAP, when I will test it longer.

Cheers,

Fred

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

The question is for YBR 250 owners, do you have a bolt at the bottom end of the left fork (red circle), or just the end of the screw from the axle, without bolt ?

---

I don't think there should be a bolt there. Most of the bikes I have seen have a threaded fork tube for the axel.

Attachment 5701

Cheers!
ChinaV

Yeah, I checked Soberpete thread too, and it seems that it's normal, there's no bolt there. Thanks anyway ChinaV.

ZMC888, i did some heavy braking today at the traffic police place, I was bored waiting for the plates...
I did around ten heavy braking with the front brake, to the point of sliding very slightly the front tire on the dry asphalt, and I'm pleased to report that everything is perfect and works as it should. No vibrations, no pulling to one side while braking, everything seem fine.
Then, while stopped, I applied the front brake and "pumped" the front forks down hard. Once again, no problem at all, no blocking points, nothing strange. The front suspension is coming back up smoothly.

I did some heavy braking with the rear too, also to the point of sliding it for around 5 meters. Everything is ok too.
Same for very tight figure 8 maneuvers, I don't spot any problem.


On a side note, while waiting at the Traffic Police thing, somebody brought over a BMW 1200 GS to be plated too. It's big and impressive and all, but I must admit I'm really not into that kind of bike in terms of look...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm pleased to report that everything is perfect and works as it should.

---

Good to hear. Glad it's working out for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

On a side note, while waiting at the Traffic Police thing, somebody brought over a BMW 1200 GS to be plated too.

---

Did you ask him the way to Starbucks? :naughty: :naughty:

Sent from my ipad via Starbucks wifi.

Haha, no didn't ask him the way to the Starbucks, so BTW where's this Starbucks which accept motorcycles ? ;-))
Jingan district ?

Hi Fred,

Glad to know you fixed all your wenti. Sorry I didn't help with that bolt info, but I'm traveling, so I couldn't see my bike for that particular.

You plan to do some mods or put some gadgets to the bike? I'm in full swing on taobao for mine :lol8:

Ok, so an update after 800km with the new toy ! :riding:

Likes :
- the storage place under the seat
- the general handling of the bike, so much easier than a "cruiser" style bike. The feeling is much better to take corners at speed.
- the tyres, very confidence inspiring in the dry or wet (except those bloody white markings on the roads, slippery as hell...)
- the power
- the fuel consumption :clap:
- the bike is quite narrow, perfect for splitting lanes.

Dislikes :
- false neutral at a red light. Doesn't happen often at all, but it happened only once in 5,000km with the Honda, and it's already been 3 times with the Yam...
- blinkers switch : it's a little bit softy for me, you don't feel clearly when you engaged or disengaged them. It's a minor problem anyway.
- the horn button is a little bit too far / down to reach it immediately and without doubt with the thumb. If you have to feel for it for 1-2 second, it's already too late in most of the cases.


In my opinion, having to look down at the rev counter during the break-in period is a bit dangerous, but that's unavoidable I guess. In China you cannot allow yourself not to be completely focused on the road ahead, as it takes only a second for something to scramble in front of your tires.
This morning was a suicidal girl, pulling behind her her younger brother just in front of my wheels, when I was looking down to see the counter....
Yes, I know, I could do it by sound, but I like to be very gentle with engines, so I'm looking precisely at the revs 90% of the time. :lol8:

As posted here I took the bike to the mountains yesterday, 500km in a day.

Quick report on the bike :
1. It was perfect. Everything ran smoothly, break-in is now finished so I can open it ! :riding:
2. Perfect set-up with the Bagster tank bag, got everything I needed and more, without having the need for saddlebags or backpack. The tank bag did not bother me at all, I don't feel it and completely forget about it when riding.
3. The fuel consumption is really low, at least according to the HTC app i use (Fuel Log) : 2,76l/100km, which means something like 85.22 miles/US gallon. Needless to say that with a tank capacity of 19 liters, I did the 500km without having to stop for fuel.

I loved the bike on the boring stretches of road, and loved it even more in the mountains. Very fun in the twisties, more than enough power, I'm hooked. :clap:

One more thought : being a monocylinder, the engine braking is quite strong, especially if you're getting off the clutch after downshifting, and still being quite high in the revs...

Yesterday I did a good slide with the rear tire while turning a bit because of that (I was not cautious enough this one time). I'm sure it looked spectacular from behind, people thinking I did it on purpose.
From the inside, I changed my underwear afterwards.... :lol8:


1 more question : does anyone know if we can buy (Taobao or others) hand guards for the YBR 250 ? I'm thinking that maybe the stock ones for the YBR 125G could fit, I'll go to the Yamaha store when I have some time.
It'll be mainly for wind/cold protection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

Yesterday I did a good slide with the rear tire while turning a bit because of that (I was not cautious enough this one time). I'm sure it looked spectacular from behind, people thinking I did it on purpose.

---

Downshifting in a turn is no drama in a car, but on a motorcycle, especially a thumper as you've noted, you have to be very cautious as it's an excellent way to lose traction. It's far better to remember your basics and do all your braking/slowing going into the turn, then accelerate out. If you are having to downshift in the turn, you've probably waited too long and now are in the wrong gear. Be super careful engaging the clutch; engaging too quickly is just like hitting the brakes, and you'll slide for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

1 more question : does anyone know if we can buy (Taobao or others) hand guards for the YBR 250 ? I'm thinking that maybe the stock ones for the YBR 125G could fit, I'll go to the Yamaha store when I have some time.

---

Check out the hand job thread for full details on hand guards. I'm enjoying very much the Acerbis knockoffs that ChinaV cited early in that thread. They are almost indestructible, look great on the bike and help keep your hands warm (well, less cold) in winter by blocking the wind. They also keep your levers from snapping off when you drop your bike.

cheers!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

I loved the bike on the boring stretches of road, and loved it even more in the mountains. Very fun in the twisties, more than enough power, I'm hooked. :clap:

---

Another happy customer of YBR250, it's indeed a fine bike! We should make the twins meet some day!

As for the hand guards keep me posted Fred, I'm interested to see how they fit, if you get some. I'm always looking for some new gadget for mine too.

A quick question for the YBR 250 owners out there : how would you describe the engine sound on your bike after 5,500-6,000 rpm, up to 7,500 ?
As obviously it's my first YBR, and I only had a 150cc before, the engine noise and also vibrations are different to what I knew of course. It sounds a little bit like something is "scraping" inside the engine after 5,500rpm, not as smooth as the Honda engine I knew before.
On the Honda, the engine sound when accelerating was more and more of course, but with a smoothly increasing sound. With the Yam, you have more of a metal scraping sound, with vibrations.

I checked the oil, everything is good there, no worries. Maybe it is the normal sound, it is a bigger engine after all. But after the rather unpleasant discoveries I had with the bike when I took it (damaged tank and side cover, bent steering, etc.), I'm a little bit paranoid now over every noise the bike is making...

I know it's difficult to say without hearing it, but for the YBR owners : if you had to describe the engine sound from 5,500 to 7,500rpm, how would you describe it ?

During normal operation (riding) I didn't notice any scraping sound at all, of course riding the sound could be covered by wind. I would describe it smooth from what I can hear.

I've never tried to rev it up in neutral, I'll try once I get back to homebase and report back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

With the Yam, you have more of a metal scraping sound, with vibrations.

---

Fred there absolutely shouldn't be any weird noises with a YBR250. I've ridden Pete's bike, I have to say it's about the quietest smoothest bike I've ever ridden, and I've taken it to the red line a fair few times. My previous Honda, wasn't as smooth. Carefully check your bike, I'd wager it's a bent front brake disk rubbing on a pad, but it could be a host of other things.

On a side note I found the throttle to be a little weird and choppy as I'm not used to EFI singles, the bars too narrow and high and the forks/shock to be a tad too soft for me. But I could get used to it, as the handling is phenomenally good!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

A quick question for the YBR 250 owners out there : how would you describe the engine sound on your bike after 5,500-6,000 rpm, up to 7,500 ?
As obviously it's my first YBR, and I only had a 150cc before, the engine noise and also vibrations are different to what I knew of course. It sounds a little bit like something is "scraping" inside the engine after 5,500rpm, not as smooth as the Honda engine I knew before.
On the Honda, the engine sound when accelerating was more and more of course, but with a smoothly increasing sound. With the Yam, you have more of a metal scraping sound, with vibrations.

I checked the oil, everything is good there, no worries. Maybe it is the normal sound, it is a bigger engine after all. But after the rather unpleasant discoveries I had with the bike when I took it (damaged tank and side cover, bent steering, etc.), I'm a little bit paranoid now over every noise the bike is making...

I know it's difficult to say without hearing it, but for the YBR owners : if you had to describe the engine sound from 5,500 to 7,500rpm, how would you describe it ?

---

Fred I have the same. It happens during driving only when you put it at a certain pressure on the throttle it sounds like something is not quite right. Take the throttle off and its gone. I cant figure it out either, I asked if it was the valve timing but nobody has the tools to check it or even dare open the head to check. Did you find any solution to it, or did it stop?
When the engine is cold the noise is not there, only after a 5 min warm up. Is it the same?

Strangely enough, I think I got used to it, it's just making the exact same noise it was making when I purchased it.
So to be honest, I cannot say at all if it is normal or not, I never tried any other YBR 250.

I will be in Chengdu in 4 days, so if there is any YBR250 owner over there, I'll be glad to hear it, or it will wait maybe Shandong with Pete...
What I have also is a faint but very regular clicking sound from the engine after 5,500-6,000RPM. I tried to change the fuel octane (93 and 97), but it made no difference.