Fake plate/No plate experience and advice

I just bought an R9 without a license in wudaokou where I will reside until July. Before this thread gets filled up by comments on how this is wrong and I'm gonna go to jail, I know the best situation is to legally apply for a license and I know the risks involved and regardless I've decided to take a chance. I know this isnt the most ethical thing to ask online however, I would really appreciate it if anyone could give me some advice regarding license plates.

As most of the readers here probably know, no license = no gas. The sales lady at the bike store told me to buy a fake Hebei plate on taobao which is approximately 300 RMB. From what I've read in online forums, there are also fake jing A and jing B plates and I was wondering what the differences are between these fake plates? Are there more benefits? Will they all work to get gas and are any of them going to get you to be more or less likely pulled over by the police?

From what I've read online as well, some people think having a fake license plate on is by far worse than having no plates because if the police catch you it's an additional offense and apparently you get in a lot more trouble? Others think that driving without a license plate at all is just waving a red flag in the polices face askin them to catch you which I agree with as well. However I live in wudaokou and out of maybe 50 r9s or other motorbikes I see, maybe 45 of them don't have plates. Can anyone shine a light on this? Or plainly speak out of logic or experience?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mister Toms
There are stupid things to do and then there are simply well... I don't even want to use that language on this site.. The law is now that if you have no license you are guilty of a crime.. This is a minimum sentence of six months.. If you injure or maim you will be paying compensation for the rest of your life.. If you kill you will (hopefully) get a bullet in the back of the head.
Mister toms.. It also shows you have absolutely no respect for the people of this country or it's laws..

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Originally Posted by Jonsims

Mister Toms
It also shows you have absolutely no respect for the people of this country or it's laws..

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personally i give the people and laws of this country all the respect they deserve

as for the original question
if you are going to have a fake plate. might as well get a jing a plate
"as well to be hung for a sheep as a lamb"

it depends, in large developed city the law enforcement may be stricter than others, while in small places if you were king in that monkey hill, you were good to go.

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Originally Posted by Jonsims

It also shows you have absolutely no respect for the people of this country or it's laws..

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What he's doing is more like following the herd. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but that's what it is. The people (majority) of this country don't even respect the traffic rules/regulations/laws, again I'm not saying that justifies us do the same!

heh heh ... what could possibly go wrong?

But, yeah, I've heard the stories about "fake plates" being worse than no plates. There are also a few examples of this in Beijing ... big, expensive bikes being seized because they had fake plates, whereas unplated bikes were left alone.

or show the plate only when in gas station?

The question is... would you consider riding an unlicensed/unregistered motorcycle in your home country. Or put another way, if a foreigner visiting your country did the same as you are contemplating, how would you feel about it, and what would you expect the authorities to do about it? While we are dealing in supposition, then migrate a step further and suppose hypothetically that, that same foreigner riding an unlicensed motorcycle was involved in a collision with a vehicle being driven by you or one of your family, now how would you feel about it? Being that the rider is riding an unlicensed vehicle means they are also going to be uninsured, as you would be here. No real plate = no insurance which is not a good situation to be in anytime.

As answered above, unlicensed motor vehicles used to come under the traffic regulations & laws, and breaking them while somewhat serious it meant that the penalties were not considered so severe. This changed back in March-April 2011 where applicable violation of the relevant laws fell under criminal law, with an increasing level of severity. This includes any type of tampering with license plates. A word of caution too, some of the CCTV cameras used on the roadways are for enforcement (aside from red light and speed cameras) and utilise number plate recognition technologies. Also, traffic police can and do use small hand held portable data links whereby they can type in or draw using a stylus imputing license plate details in real time, which can provide a screen full of data about the plate, vehicle & owner. These are being used more frequently around the area I live in. Just yesterday while at a controlled intersection (traffic lights) I observed 3 traffic police, with a police officer standing on each side of the intersection plus 1 standing by the police car, each officer was running checks on plates using the hand held devices as vehicles came to a stop at the traffic lights. That meant there were 3 date terminals being used to check plates at the time.

I watched what they did for some time through the different light phases, before I got a green light and then proceeded through the intersection. I noticed that as I rode past one officer and got to see the rear of my motorcycle, he input the details of my plate - no worries there everything 100% legal.

There have been compulsory stops as well, and in unusual places e.g. small side streets and other miscellaneous short cuts I'd never have expected to see police, that I've used hundred's of times, and never seen police at these locations before.

All this aside, recently a foreign woman riding an e-scooter allegedly on the wrong side of the road at an intersection, hit or was hit by 3 wheeled motorcycle taxi, and her injuries were fairly serious with significant trauma. Unfortunately, the motorcycle taxi was deemed to 100% at fault, why? because his taxi was illegal. Despite the police stating that the foreign woman was riding through the intersection on the wrong side of the roadway. The taxi operator, had to put up a CNY10000 bond at the hospital, where the woman was hospitalised for 10 days, and he lost his motorcycle, even though I still see hundreds of the same type of motorcycle taxi on a daily basis.

I guess the moral of the story is...

No plates+get caught = pile bull faeces+bike confiscation
No plates+no insurance = bigger pile bull faeces+bike confiscation
No plates+no insurance+accident = your fault no matter what+huge pile bull faeces+bike confiscation
Fake plates+get caught = pile bull faeces+bike confiscation
Fake plates+no insurance = bigger pile bull faeces+bike confiscation
Fake plates+no insurance+accident = your fault no matter what+huge pile bull faeces+bike confiscation

But worse than all of that is your actions also have ripple affects for all those riders (especially us foreigners) who follow on after you. Where perhaps an official may have helped, they may hinder. Where a police officer may have let a small transgression slide with a warning, not this one...
So my advice, please think before you decide, and decide carefully for all of us other riders before you act. Don't fall victim to being part of the herd, only to be the one singled out and made example of. Ignorance has no excuse.

Since you have been contacting Taobao motorcycle sellers, have you tried to see if any can help you out by getting a set of real plates & documents and not just fake plates for CNY300? I believe the going rate, is around CNY2500 for a set of plates and documents for a 250cc registration...

What bikerdoc says ... +1

MC riders/owners all share one common belief ... it will never happen to me.

I am also curious about all the people who tell me "I never see the traffic police, or get stopped, or whatever" ... damn, I must look like a clown with flashing neon lights yelling "pick me, pick me", because I see the police all the time, and have frequently been stopped. Of course, I live closer to the central part of Beijing. Mind you, back in the day, the police never bothered any riders ... but it seems they started working inside the 2nd ring road .... then moved out to the 3rd ... and are now moving enforcement out towards the 4th.

Of course you can ride with no plates or fake plates ... you can also ride with bald tires, no brakes, no mirrors, no helmet, and a t-shirt & flip flops ... just be aware of the consequences when "it" does happen to you.

I've noticed that the new term for the traffic police over on the Chinese boards is "tour agent" ... offering 14-day "tours" for those without a DL or fake plates.

Again, what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes1:

I'm a little worried that Mistertoms' engagement with MCM lasted exactly one post. Maybe he was disappointed with our friendly but straight talk.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

...Again, what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes1:

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I hope nothing went wrong.

Mistertoms, you still with us? How about an update?

cheers

Is a R9 a 90cc bike?
+

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Is a R9 a 90cc bike?
+

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It's this, isn't it?

http://1.pic.58control.cn/p1/big/n_14672004711951.jpg

How much does a tag cost, that it would make one chance such serious repercussions? Not being snarky , I really am curious about costs of things in China. Russ

Depends on where you live. Shanghai A plate is 54000 last time I asked. C plate is upwards of 8000. Other provinces and cities vary. Also, there is the problem of registering an imported bike, or even one older than 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Nuhaus

Also, there is the problem of registering an imported bike....

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G'Day,

No problems at all to get legal Shanghai registration / plate for a legit import bike and have the bike registered in the owners name (Chinese / Foreigner).

Welcome NC-redleg

Two things need to be considered:

1) The bike has to be on an "approved list" of motorcycles for registration. Not many bikes are. It is a complicated issue, but relates primarily to emissions, as well as manufacturing/import taxes being paid.

2) Assuming the bike is "on the list", is a genuinely legal bike (i.e., not an illegally imported one), and it can be legally registered in your city of residence (some cities just say no to bikes), the tag price varies dramatically. In little towns, it may be as low as a few hundred rmb (about $20). In large cities, it can be very expensive (e.g., Shanghai is >50K rmb ... about $7,500 US; in Beijing it is about 20K rmb ... about $3,000 US). The reason the price is so high is because there are a fixed number of tags available in these major cities, and only in the secondary market (no new ones are being issued).

Bike registration/insurance is a whole different kettle of fish in China. It is complicated & expensive and, largely for that reason, many people opt to ride illegally.

In the past, the police largely ignored this "issue", but that has changed. Now, it has potentially quite serious consequences.

Those R9s are like mosquitoes in certain areas of Beijing (e.g., WDK) - annoying.

Thanks for the welcome .I have started working on china scoots here in NC because no dealers will.Found this site and was grateful that I was actually learning some history about these various bikes from people who were dealing with them on their native soil.That is just unreal about the plates and insurance over there!So , what percentage of bikes on the road ,are actually registered and insured?

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Welcome NC-redleg

Two things need to be considered:

1) The bike has to be on an "approved list" of motorcycles for registration. Not many bikes are. It is a complicated issue, but relates primarily to emissions, as well as manufacturing/import taxes being paid.

2) Assuming the bike is "on the list", is a genuinely legal bike (i.e., not an illegally imported one), and it can be legally registered in your city of residence (some cities just say no to bikes), the tag price varies dramatically. In little towns, it may be as low as a few hundred rmb (about $20). In large cities, it can be very expensive (e.g., Shanghai is >50K rmb ... about $7,500 US; in Beijing it is about 20K rmb ... about $3,000 US). The reason the price is so high is because there are a fixed number of tags available in these major cities, and only in the secondary market (no new ones are being issued).

Bike registration/insurance is a whole different kettle of fish in China. It is complicated & expensive and, largely for that reason, many people opt to ride illegally.

In the past, the police largely ignored this "issue", but that has changed. Now, it has potentially quite serious consequences.

Those R9s are like mosquitoes in certain areas of Beijing (e.g., WDK) - annoying.

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Plates. No plates. Fake plates.
All depends on the city you're in.
You buy a bike from the shop and have papers with it, you're good to go.
You buy an illegal bike and it's just your skill + luck.
You ride with plates - be ready to go by traffic rules and pay the taxes and all that.
No plates - you'll be assumed guilty whatever happens.
You choose.
Then again, in some cities registtration isn't even 5000 yuan.
Here in Nanjing it's 9000 - 12000 yuan. Something to consider, eh?

Why you laowei come to my country you think you can driving illegal motorcycle around willy-nilly? You should buy black car for increase China economic. In fact, I should harmonize you with law, you American I think, you should drive Buick, why you waste money on motorcycle?

Right that does it im off to get myself a big black shining audi then im never giving way to any motorcycle .,must obey leader

Speaking of documents - I lent my wife a 150cc Suzuki EN-150 I legally bought from a legal dealer with a legal registration.
The cop stopped her, so she stopped. She had no driving license on her.
They took the bike to custody ASAP.
Monday morning gotta go to Police station argue my bike back.
Much shouting to be done.

Long as you also have legal plates and legal insurance it should be no problem. If the bike is registered in your name I believe the fine is around 500.

I got all that.
Should be no problem. The cops were proud they caught a female species of laowai in the wild.

Welcome to Nanjing! :taz:

Got the bike back: traffic police station - insurance agency - bike shop - insurance agency again - traffic police station - police custody parking lot.
Started at 8:30 am, finished at around 2:30 pm.

so the question should be asked, would you normally condone such behaviour in your own country (operatibng a vehicle without the required drivers license? I know my answer would be... no, as getting caught or in a crash can have serious consequences! So why then do people feel they have some form of entitlement to do so in mainland China. If one is a foreigner then it is highly likely as such they have an educated background, or life experience or logic to help them make somewhat rational decisions in life. The other issue is as foreigners we are guests here, and should show more respect for the laws, despite what we see the locals doing... the proverb goes "if you saw one jumping off a cliff - would you follow?"

Good points BikerDoc but I would remind all that if someone from China visits Texas with their Chinese drivers license, they are free to drive any Texas roads and present that Chinese drivers license and be good to go no more questions asked.

I have lived in Nanjing 8 years and my wife is from here. I love many things here but the constant push to make many things harder than they need to be gets old from time to time. It is also hard to know what the law is as it always seems to be a constant moving target depending on what city you are in or even what district of that city you are in.

Anyway, it is good to have another Nanjing rider here finally. I look forward to riding with Mr. Halt soon. For that matter, any of you that make it to Nanjing need to let me know in advance! I only know of jkp to have made it through this city one time and I missed him that time. I hope to get a second chance with someone.

Ride Safe.

^true I agree, but we as a collected group must clean up our act, so that we are less likely to be targeted. China is taking a much tougher stance on many things and us foreigners and everything about us is included we might have been privileged once but those days are a thing of the past. I share your view in terms of how open the rest of the world is or at least the majority of it when it comes to equality etc, but China is what it is, a developing country which means that many things are in a constant state of flux - something we all have to get used too. My point is, it's a increasingly dangerous proposition to be riding a motorcycle in China already without adding the deficit of not doing so legally. It’s also important to know that China is getting tougher with vehicle control, and there can be a lack of transparency so one can run the real risk of having a vehicle seized and not getting it back.

Yesterday talked to my friend and wondered:
Cheapest legal new Chinese bike (not a scooter): 7000 - 10000 yuan.
License plates for that bike: another 9000 - 10000 yuan (and you will want to register it, otherwise why buy a legal bike in the first place?)
Insurance: 250 yuan/year.
Fines: 0 (I obey the traffic rules)
Time & nerve: buying a bike is quick, getting plates for it isn't. It's quite difficult for Chinese traffic police system to process foreign IDs and foreign driving licenses. Why process them, let's just not give those to foreigners! Problem solved. It took me 2 days in a local 车管所 to get the legal plates for the legally bought bike with all the papers at hand. It took me a long-long time to prove it to the police that my driving license is genuine and my bike's compliance certificate （合格证）is genuine as well. It took me a long time to explain that bike insurance was indeed bought in my name, and the insurance company had to write my English name in Chinese just because their system wouldn't process foreign names.

At the same time there's a place here in Nanjing called 堂子街, where I can buy a 2000 yuan illegal scooter (or 5000 yuan illegal motorbike). No license/ID required, no documents given.

If I'm riding that thing for a month without being caught, I get my money back in taxi fees that I don't have to pay. 20000 yuan will buy me 10 of those. In that case I won't even worry about getting that thing back once the police catch/stop me. Just give them the keys, take my lock, go get another bike and be aware of that particular traffic crossing.

What I'm saying here is: if Police want t all legal (like I want it to be), why make "legal" so goddamn expensive and complicated? Why offend and refuse and mock one of the few laowai who actually went to the lengths of getting all the Chinese paperwork straight? It's kinda discouraging.

This is a debate that won't convince anyone to become legal, regardless of how patently obvious it should be.

Back home, it is also possible to buy an "inexpensive" bike (i.e., stolen) and put fake plates on it, without insurance, etc. Back home, however, you are in really big trouble if caught.

Bit by bit, at least in Beijing, the "big trouble" situation is forming. Riding without a driving license, on an illegal bike, fakes plates, etc., creates a very real risk of jail time and your visa being canceled. Personally, I welcome this. Yup, time to clean up our acts.

In my experience, lots of people rationalize riding illegal bikes, etc., with a wide variety of excuses. Inevitably, the bottom line is always "it is cheaper to get an illegal bike, fake plate, etc." My response is .... look, legal bikes are available, insurance is available, etc., etc., etc. Yes, they are expensive. It is simply the price of admission. And the consequences of having an accident with an "illegal status" are dramatic.

The same futile argument applies to smoking ... I know it is very bad for me, but I do it anyways. I rationalize it by saying "it is my only vice, as I don't drink alcohol, I don't swear (much), and all my bikes (well, 90% of them) are 100% legal!" I doubt anyone can convince me to act rationally, even though I know that the likely outcome is dramatic.

By the way, each time I renew my insurance, do a plate transfer, or whatever, I am confronted with the English Name/Passport Number issues. Frustrating, but I simply remember that back home, we do not permit Chinese characters, and our data entry fields certainly won't accommodate the very lengthy Chinese ID number. Eventually, the Chinese side always manages to work out a solution for me. I have a Chinese name, and my passport number (which changes every 5 years) appears on my official Chinese documents.

As a side note, one thing I have certainly noticed over the past year is that it is common to hear quite negative comments about foreign riders flaunting Chinese traffic laws (e.g., no helmets, no plates, R9 scooters on the ring roads, etc). That negativity is certainly becoming more pronounced.

I'm looking forward to the day when overseas DLs (or IDPs) are accepted in China. One day it will happen.

Enuff said ... smoke break.