Hard vs soft luggages for long trips

A call to the vastly experienced riders here !

For a long trip in China (2 months), and in general what are your thoughts about the best type of saddlebags, irrelevant of the volume ?
For the YBR 250, some examples :
Hard luggages with racks : http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=2044956300
Or soft luggages without racks to support them (GDW types) : http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=7576252868

Being a complete noob about this (I only tested soft saddlebags, YDC company), what should I be careful about, what should I look for ?
I'd go for the hard ones, because well, they seems solid and the racks help in case of a fall, but it's an uneducated guess for now, please help to make it an educated one ! :lol8:

I covered some of the pros and cons of luggage in this post of my Galaxy thread.

I have seen both of the bag set ups you linked to on Taobao. Here is some food for thought.

The hard ones are made of brittle plastic and are really very small. You will see the same bags being used on lots of police bikes around China. They're pretty poorly made and mounted very high and wide. The price is good and might get you through a trip if you have a tight budget.

The soft luggage is pretty average quality, I wouldn't count on it to keep your stuff dry, but you could easily pack your stuff in some plastic bags. You can cary a lot more than the hard bags and they are balanced a lot better.

Are you going to ride 2 up or alone?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Thanks ChinaV !
I'm going to ride 2-up, so the "middle part" of the GDW soft bags between the 2 bags could be a problem for the pillion (not really comfortable for a long trip), I already sent a PM to Milton to ask his detailed thoughts about those bags, as he used them for his last trip.

Hey Fred,

For me SECURITY is a big factor in going with hard. I started with a Wandefu (Chinese version of the Pelican boxes) setup which you can see here. I briefly experimented with soft, but then quickly moved back to hard with the Tourfellas (expensive, but high quality).

IMO - when you're out riding and you get off for stops (e.g. eating, sightseeing, etc.) there is a huge comfort factor that hard boxes offer. Your gear is locked and much more secure than soft (ask Milton who lost his bags WHILE RIDING - an amazing story!!). Especially if you'll be out for such a long trip, having the flexibility to leave gear locked on your bike when you're out and about doing stuff on 2 legs is very convenient.

* Of course never leave anything too valuable in your locked boxes. I always keep the passport and camera with me when I leave the bike unattended.

Hi Fred, I used these ones for riding two-up and they performed fine and were not uncomfortable to sit on at all: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10678959472

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fahni

Hi Fred, I used these ones for riding two-up and they performed fine and were not uncomfortable to sit on at all: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10678959472

---

Fahni, I'm very interested by those, could you please tell me more ?
Are they 100% waterproof ? Do they need some support, do they keep their shape even if heavily loaded ?
What about the volume for each bag, normal and extended ? It seems that they have 2 sizes (17 and 24L or 34 and 48L), which ones do you have ?

Could you please give me your thoughts about their durability over time ? Thanks in advance.

Ups, maybe I should have kept my mouth shut...

I don't really know about the size I just found a link on another thread on MCM and they seemed a good choice so I ordered without being asked by the vendor about any specific size choices. I think, if extended, the combined capacity is 57 l which is a lot. We were riding for 4 days and did not even extend the bags. I think they are not 100% water proof but come with rain protection that can be put over them.

They have some flexible plastic sheets that come with it and are fixed to the bottom interior which keeps them in really good shape.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fahni

Ups, maybe I should have kept my mouth shut...

---

Hehe, not at all ! :icon10:

I'm really interested about this option. I'm taking all pieces and bits of advice from everyone.
I'm thinking that I'll go for soft luggages, as anyway I'd like to take them with me when I'll finally leave China, and use them on different bikes easily, which is maybe not the case with solid ones.

Could I insist on asking your review about those Menat bags : do you think they could handle a long trip, are they convenient to use ? Did you just put them on the bike, or with support racks ?

And finally, would it be possible for you to shoot some pictures of them, inside and outside with some kind of objects (pens, ruler, etc.) to be able to see how big they are and how they're built ?

Thanks a lot if you could do that ! :icon10:

Cheers,

HaHa,

ok, here we go:
No Racks needed. Just put them on the saddle (width adjustable)
Very easy to take off
I think, they should hold up fine on a really long trip but I will not be able to put this thesis to the test until next year summer.

I will snap some pics and post 'em tomorrow

My impression is that for this price, they are a steal!

i have used those menat bags for 4000km and the top seam has split on one side where the crossover strap joins to the bag
also one of the zips is starting to fail
i think the gdw bags are the best available
they are very popular with the locals also jeremy and lulu used them for 18000km with no trouble
agree that they may not be ideal for a pillion but you could put a cushion over the strap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

...
I'm going to ride 2-up, so the "middle part" of the GDW soft bags between the 2 bags could be a problem for the pillion (not really comfortable for a long trip), I already sent a PM to Milton to ask his detailed thoughts about those bags, as he used them for his last trip.

---

Hi Fred,

Apologize for this late reply to your PM. I actually had answered part of your question at this thread:
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ll=1#post34096

I might add a few things:
1. I have never taken any trip with a pillion. However, the GDW saddlebags sit quite flat on the backseat and look ok to sit on.
2. They are close to 100% waterproof if you keep all the covers on tight.
3. They are quite durable. Some grueling part of my trip and a getoff did not damage them a bit.
4. I still haven't figured out how to attach them firmly to my bike yet. I just threw them on and rely on their weight to keep them in place. If you remember the last part of my RR, they did come off and took me a while to recover them. However, this can be remedied by installing a top box on the back.
5. Although it's easy to take them on and off the bike, you do need to keep them in sight to avoid petty theft, which may not always be possible.

They are good saddlebags and can go the distance.

Thanks a lot Milton and others for your replies and comments.

I'd wish we could keep this thread alive with some reviews and comments from others.
I'm more convinced for the soft bags now. I could buy some good quality stuff in Europe when I go back for Christmas, but I don't wish to go "overkill" on the preparation of the trip. I'd like to take only what is necessary in terms of reliability, nothing more, and no go the "Ewan & Charley" way with support crews and jeeps. :icon10:

So if anyone has another opinion and/or tested others saddlebags, please share your comments !

Dear Fred,

Most important consideration BY FAR when choosing these soft bags is how they sit with respect to your muffler, and what they are made of. If your muffler rides up high, as on our Jialings, and the bags are made of any kind of synthetic fabric, there's a huge chance they'll melt or burn unless you can devise a reliable means of keeping distance between them. This will be complicated by your pillion due to seat compression and other forces that could push the fabric close to the hot pipe. Even a fabric bag (those GDWs look like oil-impregnated canvas) will be damaged by heat, and can burn. The waterproof coating will quickly fail. If the bags have stiffeners inside, these are usually made with nylon, which of course can melt, this defeating their function and putting your stuff at risk of cooking.

So the question is not only "which panniers are good?" but "which work best with my bike?"

Can you find them in the wild here in Shanghai, and see how they sit on your steed?

(Disclosure: I use hard panniers -- the pricy Tourfellas made by Du Rui in Yongkang, Zhejiang.)

cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphonius

...
Most important consideration BY FAR when choosing these soft bags is how they sit with respect to your muffler, and what they are made of. ...

---

Quite. The heat problem to the saddlebags relative to their position to the muffler was one my concerns as well. However, after 10 days and about 1800km on the road, they seem to have worked ok without visible heat damages. The metal cooling cover over the muffler on our JH600 might have done an adequate job. However, I do plan to get a set of metal luggage racks without the boxes so I can put the saddlebags over them to eliminate this possibility.

I personally prefer hard luggage - aluminum cases to be precise - for several reasons

- all stuff inside is better mechanically protected
- boxes can be locked and provide better protection against theft
- boxes can be used for other purposes - tables, steps, chairs, water basin and much more
- if the bike goes down, it doesn't go down all the way and the boxes provide protection :naughty:

However, I also carry a water and dust proof soft bag for my tent, sleeping bag, mat, tarp, clothes, blanket, towels, ...

http://www.china-biker.de/pictures/m...ing-a00573.jpg
Bike in full tour mode


http://photos.imageevent.com/chinabi...0518133202.jpg
Bike protection :lol8:

I guess it very much depends on the bike and the type of riding.. but soft luggage can also serve as bike protection. Check out these Wolfman saddlebags:

http://www.bigdogadventures.com/imag.../WR%20Rear.JPG

http://www.bigdogadventures.com/imag...e/IMG_0084.JPG

For me this is the perfect solution. Easy on, easy off, and easy to carry off the bike anywhere. With this setup you hae to put anything sensitive in your top box. Pics off this adv thread >> http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656302

It depends on the bike and purpose... as others have chimed in already. I have used a combination of both hard and soft luggage over the years on a variety of bikes, but I swear by using a top box having become a convert in China, whereas overseas I used to use a soft backpack on pack-racks. Currently I have 100% leather saddlebags imported from the USA on my 2007 Dragstar Classic 1100 and even though the right hand bag sits very close if not on the rear muffler assembly, nothing has melted, nor does it suffer from any radiant heat issues. One of my mates (an inmate on MCM) prefers to use soft bags, made of synthetic and he's now on his second set. Okay admittedly those are some 200 kuai bags that look all nice and sporty on his Dragstar Custom 1100 but they are not that dust proof nor water proof. My bags are. Also I have a set of genuine Yammie cases on my new XT1200Z, which I will report on later, which for all intensive purposes are just like what Chinabiker posted about above post #15.

I luv topboxes and am sold on the concept in China. I have one mounted on all my bikes with the exception of the XT1200Z which will get one when it arrives in China. I use my ADLO topboxes as day to day storage and shopping carry-alls, and then when touring as my suitcase, since my ADLO's are quick release and can be dis/mounted using the locking key. Upon arrival at hotels/motels I simply use the key, remove the topbox and carry it into the room and presto, there's my suitcase. Bonus is it's lockable, as are hard cases. On the last ride I did October holidays, I used my topbox as described while another rider used his BMW R1150GS side cases in the same way. My leather saddle bags are attached more permanently even though they are a "throw-over-the-pillion-seat" design, I placed the saddle bag crossover under the seat making them more a permanent fixture.

ADLO are a better than average Chinese topbox brand and the model I have use a special high quality plastic with robust construction and are virtually indestructible.

Hi Fred,

on my Shineray I used that bag:

http://shop.sw-motech.com/cosmoshop/...50411319940508

http://shop.sw-motech.com/cosmoshop/...0509-23607.jpg

http://shop.sw-motech.com/cgi-bin/co...typid=49465533

It is big enough for me on a trip and you can fix other stuff outside. It sits rather high and was no issue with the high muffler.
Easy to put on or take off, it is fixed with 4 straps, commes off in two minutes.
I didnt try it with pillion.

I bought it in Beijing, at the shop in the 798 art district near Lido (recommended by chinabiker). Price was reasonable. Europe would still be chaeper.

Hi Fred,

I too dream about long trip in China and have a YBR250, so far I've bought these:
- support
- trunk quite big, easy to detach, very practical to store the helmet in everyday use.

I haven't quite figured out what to put on the sides, but I'm thinking aluminum panniers. The problem of our bike is the big exhaust, I need to consider carefully what I can put on the sides.

Ah, not related to luggage I also bought this as I think a little wind protection is good in long trips, and this for extra visibility at night (not to mention the cool angel eye effect).

Awesome replies by all, thanks a lot !

Marco, because you too have a YBR 250, your reply has extra value for me ! Thanks for all the link, but now you've opened yourself for more questions ! :lol8: Would you be kind enough to take the time to reply ?
1. the support : as far as I can see on the pictures in the Taobao link, there are only 4 bolts (2 on each side) to support the whole thing.
- Is it enough for heavy saddlebags (they don't rest completely on the support but are still pushing against it) and a heavy top case/trunk ?
- I didn't check yet : under the saddle, are there already the 2 holes and "support plate" for this part, or do you need to make some modifications to the YBR ?
- can you easily attach the trunk to this support or do you need something else "in between" ?

2. Trunk :
- what about the quality ? Do you think it could withstand a round-China trip ?
- what about the maximum weight you could safely put inside ?
- is there some rubber thingy to rest your back against it for the pillion ?

3. "Givi" windshield :
- is it easy to install on your own ?
- at speed (80 to 120 km/h), is the wind deflected to your chest, or helmet, or above ? I read that for some people it was worse than nothing due to the air turbulence hitting just your helmet, any comments on that ?
- How tall are you ?

Thanks a lot in advance for your replies !

Cheers,

Fred

Whatever trunk you get, it is far better to permanently mount it to the rack rather than use the quick release mounting kit it comes with. If your partner is leaning against it, and your bouncing stuff around on the bumpy roads of China, it will break, guaranteed.

Cheers!
ChinaV

I also use the Adlo 929 on each of a YBR125 and a YBR250 and I am happy with it. It is very large, reasonably decent quality (for the price), and has a nice touch of an integrated brake light. Many people use this box for extended touring in China, but I don't think it would withstand a direct impact (e.g., the bike's weight being supported by it on a fall). Yes, it has a back rest, of sorts, although it doesn't look/feel very fancy/comfortable.

I also use a very similar rack (might have even been the same taobao vendor), but it is only a rear rack, no side supports. Those side supports look useful for soft luggage (I opted for hard luggage on the 250, with a different mounting scheme).

The rack attached via 4 bolts, into holes that are already tapped under the YBR seat (easy & very secure).

EDIT: Forget to add re ChinaV's recommendation - so true. The quick release mounting that Adlo uses on most of its trunks are susceptible to coming apart under heavy use (happened on an Adlo box I have on my JH600).

Thanks again for the new info about luggages.

ChinaV or Lao Jia Hou, if you advise not to use the "quick release system" but to mount the trunk permanently on the support, would you care to detail how do you do that ? My meaning is : do you need to drill some holes by yourselves, or weld, or does the trunk include some "built-in" possibilities to attach it directly to the support without the quick-release system ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fred

Thanks again for the new info about luggages.

ChinaV or Lao Jia Hou, if you advise not to use the "quick release system" but to mount the trunk permanently on the support, would you care to detail how do you do that ? My meaning is : do you need to drill some holes by yourselves, or weld, or does the trunk include some "built-in" possibilities to attach it directly to the support without the quick-release system ?

---

I just drill 4 holes in the bottom of the box and use some long screws and large washers to attach it to the rack.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Hi Fred,

I will happily answer all your questions, but I return only yesterday to my bike. All those goodies I mentioned where waiting for me (I've ordered during my work trip via my assistant) and so far I've had time only to install the rack and the ADLO box (15 minutes approximate assembly time).

So, here we go!

1) Rack, there are indeed only four bolts to connect it, you will need to remove your seat, unscrew the black metal piece that is on the back, and use the same four bolts to mount the new rack. No adjustments needed.
It fits perfectly and is very solid, as it screws on a main chassis part.
I know, 4 bolts seems a bit less to me too, but it seems very solid, the welding of the bolted plate seems solid, and I doubt it will brake apart even under substantial loads.

2) The trunk it's very fair quality, as other mentioned I doubt it will survive a direct impact but it is certainly a very good value for the money. From my research it was the best Made in China (for China) product available on the market.

So far I installed it using the plate they give, which allows fast release. I like the possibility to take it away, although I'll probably either take ChinaV suggestion or study the possibility to create my own custom made "counter plate" to attach to the trunk. I will take some pictures tomorrow which explains why this trunk release mechanism doesn't seem shock-proof under heavy stress.

About the maximum weight I wouldn't know, as so far I'm planning to use only to store my helmet and jacket when I park the bike. From the look of it the problem is not really the trunk itself but the rack (go back to point one) on which it rests. I would say 50 Kg is the maximum I would put on the whole rack, with a 15-20 Kg max in the trunk.

There isn't a rubber thingy (which no doubt your miss would appreciate) but there is something as you can see in this other seller page. However it's stiff.




I will come back to you tomorrow with some pics and (hopefully) more answers about the (most probably fake) GIVI windshield. All I can say it's that's is real easy to install on your own, but I've not started yet, as I'm fixing the HID light before, and man... THAT is a real pain the ass as you need to disconnect all the plugs and cables that pass trough the light assembly in order to put the HID one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

I also use a very similar rack (might have even been the same taobao vendor), but it is only a rear rack, no side supports. Those side supports look useful for soft luggage (I opted for hard luggage on the 250, with a different mounting scheme).

---

Hi Lao,
very possible, the same vendor has also have these
Didn't know you had a YBR250 too, how did you fix your hard luggage to the bike? Care to share some pictures of your configuration?

I have several ADLO topboxes, all are model 981's with the quick release mechanism. I have 3 simply because I have 3 motorcycles, and rather than just buying one, I got three so I needn't worry about swapping the box between bikes. I have used ADLO for 5 years, and have been way more than happy, and have commented about the quality and robust construction of the boxes used. On my first JinJian Startrek scooter, there was a standard plastic topbox that cracked several times, on the rides I used to do frequently between Ningbo-SH-Ningbo. Keep in mind that these rides would take me around 7-8hrs one way and I often would do the return in the same 24hr period. If the standard topbox wasn't much cop, and after these type of long rides, I experienced trouble with the standard topbox that were supplied by the manufacturer. I had the topbox replaced a couple of times, under warranty and a later I bought the last one from the dealer, while I tried to find something more robust.

Fortunately I found my first ADLO 981 up in SH at a scooter shop that did lots of upgrades with after market gear imported from outside the mainland. I showed them the problem I was having with the standard box which was being shaken apart, and they sold me on the ADLO, with its better plastic and quick release mounting system. It helped that it was well under a couple hundred kuai.

That box lasted me a good 3 years. I installed that box onto the scooter and then later bought a second base plate which I fitted to my Dragstar Classic 1100 here in China and then swapped the same topbox over to it. The box did fall off one time, but that was nothing to do with the topbox, the base plate nor the locking mechanism. It was because I'd installed the baseplate onto the rear rack on my Dragstar 1100 with a wooden base I'd sandwiched in between the chrome rack and the steel plate. After some rough riding the wood split and the topbox still attached to the base plate came off one night and bounced down a local road. I turned round & went back to find a local and his female companion trying to bungy the box to their bike. I stopped and said I will have that back thank you very much -it's mine. No protest. When I got home to see why it had come off, I found it was my fault. But more importantly, amazingly the box was in one piece, just a little road rash but only just. I simply reinstalled it back to my Dragstar minus the wood base insert and rode 2 more years, until it came off on a week long ride me and some mates did round Zhejiang & Fujian. I was riding a crap goat track when to topbox came off. I stopped and found that the locking mechanism had finally decided that it'd had enough of all the crap road surfaces I'd ridden for the past several years.

The lock doubles as both the box lock and the lock for the release mechanism. I usually used a bungy or two over the box stretched front to back, just to quieten the vibration noise that the box would make on the rough roads/tracks, since the 4 rubber stoppers designed for just such a purpose never could do the job, that day I'd opted not to attach the bungy's. If I'd had those bungys on that day, the box would have stayed on.
It didn't turn me off the ADLO's at all, I went and bought 3 new sets of the 981's which hold a fair amount e.g. a full face hemet. The boxes are light enough, and I've carried up to 20kg in them on trips. They are meant to hold about 10-15kg max from what I recall. I always use bungy's on all of them, but since replacing my first one, the locking mechanism has been redesigned, as has the base plate. My original base plate didn't fit with new boxes.

Oh, and I get them from a Hangzhou motorcycle market seller, and they were cny160 delivered to my door direct from ADLO in Guangdong. Beats buying a GIVI for 5-10 x the price IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marcomagica

Hi Lao,
very possible, the same vendor has also have these
Didn't know you had a YBR250 too, how did you fix your hard luggage to the bike? Care to share some pictures of your configuration?

---

Hi Marco - yes, I think that 185 rmb is the one I purchased for the 250. I was a bit skeptical, at first, but when it arrived I was pleasantly surprised by the quality. Strong and fit perfectly. Not sure how the finish will last, but powder coating in China is inexpensive, should I ever need it.

I haven't yet fit the luggage, as I am still waffling on which option will work best on the 250. I am kinda tilting towards the pelican-style knockoffs, but also really like the slim Tourfellas that Motokai now has on his JH600. Either way, I will have the mounting rack custom built (a disadvantage of hard luggage, each with its own unique mounting scheme).

I picked up a 250 because I really like the 125 (certainly a contender in my top 10 favorite bikes, of all time), and the 250 seems better fitted to the stream of overseas friends (of larger body types) who visit for rides.

Hi Fred,

I'm back with some pictures as promised. Here is "she" before finishing to install the HID light (you may notice the plastic bag containing the front light as yesterday I left the work half done)

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/...i/IMAG0176.jpg

And here at work completion

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/...i/IMAG0180.jpg

I can't report yet on the windshield air deflection, hopefully I'll have a sunny day tomorrow for some riding. All I can say is that I mounted very "vertical" hoping it will not deflect air on my helmet. It's very small though, so I don't know how much it can do.

Next step is to find some "tourfella style" hard bags for the sides, which I plan to fix to the lateral rack with some bolts. The only problem is the huge exhaust, which leaves little margin for bags on the right side as you can see here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marcomagica

Next step is to find some "tourfella style" hard bags for the sides, which I plan to fix to the lateral rack with some bolts.

---

Marco, you might want to re-think the idea of adding hard cases to those racks. They are designed to keep soft luggage from getting caught up in the wheel, not for attaching cases. If you do attach cases and add a little weight to them, they will sway from side to side as there is no support other than the 2 welds at the top. Hitting a few bumps at speed could be a real disaster.

Have a look a the racks on my V-Strom, this is a very common 4 point design that many bag manufacturers use.

http://www.contactdi.com/2009/strom/wee010.jpg

Not trying to tell you what to do, but please be cautious.

Cheers!
ChinaV