Selecting a bike for triping

Hi guys,

First of all thanks for all the useful tips you ve given me till the moment. Thanks to them I have been able to get my chinese driving license. Now I am looking for a bike in Beijing. However I dont want it for riding it in the city (which I will of course, but its not the main reason Im buying this bike). I want it for triping round China. So the number of bikes I think can fulfill my requirements has been drastically reduced. I would like some recomendations on the subject. My options at the moment

- New CF Moto 650
- New ChangJiang 750
- Second hand BMW 650 cs

I also was looking for the CFMOTO 650 TR but it will take too mcuh time to buy it (you have to wait 3 months) and i will be gone in 8 months

Taking into account that my mechanical abilities are limited at its best, and I have only been driving 150 cc bikes till now, I think that the CJ 750 must wait for more experience on the road.

Thanks ahead!

You did get you driving license, so you want a road legal bike?
Does it have to be something of over 600CC?

You are gone in 8 months, as in not coming back anytime soon after that? Then why spend RMB 30k or more! You don't know in advance how fast you can sell it again later.

Got scared of the JH600 after reading about the stalling issues that some fellow-MCM members have?

If you want a bike for touring China, get one that can be repaired anywhere, a basic 125/150cc will do the job. May be a fancy local trail 200/250cc but there is no need for more.

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Originally Posted by gambitox

Hi guys,

First of all thanks for all the useful tips you ve given me till the moment. Thanks to them I have been able to get my chinese driving license. Now I am looking for a bike in Beijing. However I dont want it for riding it in the city (which I will of course, but its not the main reason Im buying this bike). I want it for triping round China. So the number of bikes I think can fulfill my requirements has been drastically reduced. I would like some recomendations on the subject. My options at the moment

- New CF Moto 650
- New ChangJiang 750
- Second hand BMW 650 cs

I also was looking for the CFMOTO 650 TR but it will take too mcuh time to buy it (you have to wait 3 months) and i will be gone in 8 months

Taking into account that my mechanical abilities are limited at its best, and I have only been driving 150 cc bikes till now, I think that the CJ 750 must wait for more experience on the road.

Thanks ahead!

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A 2nd hand BMW 650GS is the best choice if the budget is not a problem, otherwise, any Chinese-made 125cc or 150cc, even a 250cc from the well-known manufacturer are all good for your trip. If Tibet and Qinghai Plateau is on your map, a 250cc is recommended. I'm a Chinese from Yunnan, now in Africa, welcome, Buddy.

Thanks for the advice!

Actually the problem is one of time. Even though I am staying for 8 months in Beijing, I am working here, and my holidays are not so long so I thought it would be better to buy something around 600 cc. I have also been told that some displacements are not allowed to drive in the Gaosu (highways) but there was nothing about this in the driving test

Yeah Barry, I saw some of the problems of the Jh600 and as I will be very little time here (though I will probably come back in a couple of years) I thought it would be better to buy a more reliable machine

Could you then please recommend me any chinese 250cc manufacturer bike that I can actually buy in Beijing, without having to order it to the factory?

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Originally Posted by gambitox

Yeah Barry, I saw some of the problems of the Jh600 and as I will be very little time here (though I will probably come back in a couple of years) I thought it would be better to buy a more reliable machine

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Dear Gambitox,

This is perhaps going to sound strange, but I'll nominate the Jialing JH600 as absolutely, hands down, the best bike for touring in China at that displacement, unless you can afford an import. I've toured extensively on my JH600, tackling expressways, rural highways and twisties, rural lanes, dirt roads, mud roads, gravel roads and even some single-track, and it's been not only super reliable, but also a huge pleasure to ride, day in and day out. With 41liter Tourfella aluminum panniers and room for as big a duffel bag as I want, its carrying capacity is wonderful, and there's still room -- and enough oomph in the rear suspension -- for a pillion if I so choose. And I'm a relatively hefty 90kg/180cm rider.

The reliability concerns come down to only a couple of things, according to more than 100,000 km of accumulated experience by a handful of us JH600 riders in China.

First is the stalling issue. This is a huge issue if your bike stalls, and most of the pre-2011 bikes do; mine does not, at least not often. And, though Jialing itself has fumbled and bungled its management of the stalling issue, they do seem to be addressing it. The latest production version, the JH600A, has an upgraded fuel injection system that seems to have eliminated the problem (though we do worry it may crop up as these bikes rack up the miles). And, more recently, Jialing is working with owners of earlier versions to swap out the old V2.0 fuel injection with the V3.0 found on the JH600A. Milton is the trailblazer on this, and his upgraded bike is not stalling.

Another issue posing actual danger to the rider is the poor design of the rubber chain guard that isolates the chain from the left swingarm. These are not attached well, and have been known to come loose and get sucked in between the chain and the front sprocket, risking a potentially catastrophic drive-train seizure that could lock up the rear wheel and send bike and rider flying. Not good. But this too can be remedied, though I've not yet seen whether Jialing has addressed this faulty design in the JH600A.

Some owners have had a problem with a decompression valve that's driven from the camshaft. These have been replaced. Again, I'm not sure whether Jialing has upgraded the design on the newer bike to eliminate this fault, but it's not been a serious issue.

Finally, at least one owner (Motokai) has had problems with the power generation system in the form of failure of the stator, which seems to have suffered from excessive heat and finally stopped delivering current. It's not known whether this problem is more widespread, what caused it, whether it is related to poor design or bad manufacturing or even something about the owner's riding technique. But since replacement the problem has not recurred.

So, unless I'm forgetting something, apart from the stalling and the swingarm guard, this does not look like an onerous list of flaws. In my view, the JH600 is a bike that handles well the merciless abuse that China's roads offer so generously. It seems to hold up well over time (quite a few of us are at the 10k km mark and some are hitting 20k), and, though parts are not available at every streetcorner as they might be for smaller bikes, Jialing is actually quite good about stocking parts and getting them out by same-day shipping to wherever you are. Parts are inexpensive, and most repairs can be undertaken by any reasonably competent mechanic (which of course is s can of worms). They've produced a good shop manual and parts list with exploded diagrams, and these are available in Chinese and English -- not that 99.9% of shops in China would have these documents.

So it's not a perfect world, or a perfect bike.

But compared to the other domestic bikes in that class -- the CFMoto 650NK and QJiang G600GS, both of which are smaller bikes with more of a lean-forward sport-bike posture -- the Jialing is, in my opinion, far, far better suited for long-distance touring, especially with gear and pillion. A wild card is the CFMoto CF650TR, which is expected to be released in the next month or two and could be a game-changer in the dual sport/sport touring space. That's certainly one to watch.

Lots of threads in this forum on the JH600 as well as the CFMoto/Chunfeng and QJiang/Qianjiang 6XXs.

cheers!

I'd echo what Euphonius posted about JH600. Apart from the ECU/stalling issue, I have had absolutely no other problems with it after clocking over 20K km on it. Just recently I've upgraded my 2.0 ECU (for those bikes shipped prior to 2011) to the latest 3.0 ECU, which is standard on newer models (JH600A). The new fuel injection system seems to have fixed the stalling problem. The thread "JH600 stalling", which I started, is one of the longest in this forum and our gripe towards Jialing's customer care is long and ongoing. However, to be fair, the latest JH600A is a fairly reliable and versatile bike, well suited for touring around in China.

There is another thread recording one of my bike trips taken with 2 other fellow JH600A riders. We did together for about 2800km in that trip, and my two other companions went on to Tibet and Xingjiang for additional 2000 to 3000 km. Our bikes took quite a bit of abuses during that trip and survived it in flying colors. Jialing as a factory may be clueless in caring for its customers or building long term customer loyalty, it appears to have finally come up with a reliable and totally enjoyable machine.

Cheers!

Thanks again for the comments, you are starting to dangerously convince me on the matter of the JH600, and I may definitely buy it if I can find some trustworthy dealer in Beijing who could also provide me with any of the two plates (JingA or B). Do you guys know anyone ? By the way which price are we talking about more or less with the JH600A?

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Originally Posted by gambitox

Thanks again for the comments, you are starting to dangerously convince me on the matter of the JH600, and I may definitely buy it if I can find some trustworthy dealer in Beijing who could also provide me with any of the two plates (JingA or B). Do you guys know anyone ? By the way which price are we talking about more or less with the JH600A?

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I'm not sure about the exact price of the JH600A currently, but my guess for a new one with jing-B plates it's around 40k RMB and with jing-A plates around 60k RMB.

I can take you to the Jialing service center in BJ, next weekend if you have time.

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Originally Posted by gambitox

Actually the problem is one of time. Even though I am staying for 8 months in Beijing, I am working here, and my holidays are not so long.

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How big are you?
Will you ride alone or with a passenger?
How many consecutive days will you ride?
How far do you plan to go?
Do you prefer twisty asphalt or roughing it in the dirt?
Do you camp or stay in hotels?
Have a budget?

Big guy, two up, long rides, asphalt, hotels, ¥50K = JH600 or maybe the CF Moto.

A little more info about your intentions would help. There's nothing particularly bad about the JH600, but most people buy it because they have to, not because they want to.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Big guy, two up, long rides, asphalt, hotels, ¥50K = JH600 or maybe the CF Moto.


ChinaV

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To be precise, JH600A costs ¥31800 plus shipping and license plate.

Cheers!

Hi ChinaV, answering to your questions

How big are you? 80 kg
Will you ride alone or with a passenger?
usually with a passenger
How many consecutive days will you ride?
I plan to ride at the most for 2 weeks but making only maximum 400 km per day (my girl would complain) and maybe resting some days without making long distances
How far do you plan to go?
Maximum 2000 km and back home
Do you prefer twisty asphalt or roughing it in the dirt?
I plan to visit small towns too as well as driving in the highways (which I think is permited for motos of this displacement)
Do you camp or stay in hotels?
mainly in Hotels/houses but I would love to camp too ( I am not too aware of chinese regulation in camping, and enforcement)
Have a budget?
My budget is 50K rmb at the top.

The biggest limitation is I have to be back at work by the end of the trip, so I can not afford to have some kind of technical problems with the bike.

What would you say are the differences in reliability between the CF 650 NK and the JH 600 A. Is the difference in price (around 10 K I think) worth it?

Let me get it right, you want two weeks adventure for two people, budget is 50k (max).
You want to see countryside, and do it by bike...

Why to buy a cow, if you only want to drink milk?

Ever though about joining a small group? Their are many organised Groups (usually max 5-10bikes), but the operators mainly use CJ750 sidecars.
They head out into the nowhere and you dont need to worry about fixing the bike, ordering food and get into the a foreigner accepting Guesthouse.

50k RMB is plenty enough for such kind of trip, 20-30k should do for two, usually they are organised around 10-12 days.

I only took such a trip with Yangtsepete, www.yangtsepete.com - just check with him, if something available to suit your schedule.
Otherwise he maybe can refer you to somebody else or somebody knows other operators. I definetly can recommend his product!

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Originally Posted by andre555

Let me get it right, you want two weeks adventure for two people, budget is 50k (max).
You want to see countryside, and do it by bike...

Why to buy a cow, if you only want to drink milk?

Ever though about joining a small group? Their are many organised Groups (usually max 5-10bikes), but the operators mainly use CJ750 sidecars.
They head out into the nowhere and you dont need to worry about fixing the bike, ordering food and get into the a foreigner accepting Guesthouse.

50k RMB is plenty enough for such kind of trip, 20-30k should do for two, usually they are organised around 10-12 days.

I only took such a trip with Yangtsepete, www.yangtsepete.com - just check with him, if something available to suit your schedule.
Otherwise he maybe can refer you to somebody else or somebody knows other operators. I definetly can recommend his product!

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I think he wants to buy a bike that he also wants to use for one longer trip of 2 weeks. Right gambitox?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gambitox

Hi ChinaV, answering to your questions

How big are you? 80 kg
Will you ride alone or with a passenger?
usually with a passenger
How many consecutive days will you ride?
I plan to ride at the most for 2 weeks but making only maximum 400 km per day (my girl would complain) and maybe resting some days without making long distances
How far do you plan to go?
Maximum 2000 km and back home
Do you prefer twisty asphalt or roughing it in the dirt?
I plan to visit small towns too as well as driving in the highways (which I think is permited for motos of this displacement)
Do you camp or stay in hotels?
mainly in Hotels/houses but I would love to camp too ( I am not too aware of chinese regulation in camping, and enforcement)
Have a budget?
My budget is 50K rmb at the top.

The biggest limitation is I have to be back at work by the end of the trip, so I can not afford to have some kind of technical problems with the bike.

What would you say are the differences in reliability between the CF 650 NK and the JH 600 A. Is the difference in price (around 10 K I think) worth it?

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Dear Gambitox,

Based on these replies, the JH600 is a very good bet -- and superior to the CF650NK for the reasons I spelled out a few days ago. I won't speculate about your pillion, but the two of you together will displace about 120-130kg plus gear. The NK is a little bike, designed for fast riding on good roads with no load, not for touring on variable roads with load. So even without answering your question about reliability, which is impossible to know since the NK is still so new, I'd say the JH600 is a superior choice.

As you'll have seen in the JH600 stalling thread, there is at least one owner who has thrown in the towel and might want to talk to you about a sale, including one in Beijing, though they may now be considering the upgrade path that Milton has pioneered in Shanghai. Needless to say, you'd need to be prepared to undertake the 3.0 upgrade yourself.

Do let us know what you decide.

cheers!

Based on the additional info you gave....

Yamaha YBR250 - If you want to save a few bucks.
Jialing JH600 - Like many others here, probably what you will end up with. As I said before, not because you want to, simply because there are so few choices.

Try contacting Shineray and see if they're ever going to get the X5 out the door, it's a decent looking 400cc dualsport.

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Reliability....Chinese Moto.... I have to be back at work by the end of the trip, so I can not afford to have some kind of technical problems with the bike.

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All I can say is... be prepared.

Cheers!
ChinaV

Thanks guys, as close as 2 weeks ago I had absolutely no idea of the bike scene in China and now I am getting a clearer picture of what I need.

Andre555, Barry is right, I want it for more than than 1 trip I am planning 3 at least plus some weekend escapes, but thanks for the advice.

And yes Chinav, they idea of buying a chinese brand is something that has been worrying me for a long time, but since I came to China I am trying to have a no prejudice attitude towards the country and that certainly includes bikes, even if a guy from Yunan wisely advises me to take care! But what the hell, the japonese also started with very poor quality standards and as an engineer I ve seen very poor stuff in europe too so I think no ones to blame and everyone is.

I am curious about the Yamaha 250 CBR you mention, I thought that with taxes and everything its going to be like 40K at least in Beijing, havent seen any japonese dealers and most of the foreign brands are absurdly expensive. If anyone has any clue where to find this beauty in Beijing please let me know

PD: euphonius you are right, it will be something like 150 kg between the two of us, but dont let my girlfriend know I said this...