Electrical Probs with QingQi 200...

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Hey everyone,
I curently seem to be having an electrical problem with my bike, very strange. At first the starter failed, or the starter button, or the solinoid, or the battery, not sure. I noticed it killed the lights and everything. I wiggled a couple wires and the lights lit up. I pushed the starter button and this time it just clicked and everything went dead again. I played with more wires and the lights came on again, tried the starter button and it didnt make a sound, and of course eaverything went dead. So after looking at it for a few minutes I turned the key and everything came on. So then I just kick started it and rode home.The next day, I kick started it, and the engine will start and idle, but will not rev up at all. When I turn the throttle it just coughs and sputters. When I turn on the ignition with the key, the headlight takes five or ten seconds to light up but is very very dim. When I start the engine it does not get brighter like you thing it would. However, and this is the strange thing about it, when the bike is running, I can pull and hold the front brake lever and the engine will rev. This will also happen if hold the headlight flasher on. Now I have disconnected the battery completly and started it and same thing, will not rev. Now it could be two different things wrong between the starter and the engine not revving. Could be coincidence. The engine not revving sounds like an ignition problem, stater, cdi box, ignition coil, even loose plug wire, who knows.(except for the plug wire, I checked that, duhh) But after some time of checking wires for shorts or being loose, I can turn on the key and all the lights come right on and the bike kickstarts and runs just fine. But then shut off and turn the ignition back on and it does the same thing, light wont come on right away and engine will start but not rev, this has repeated itself a few times after looking for problems. Now, I am a very good mechanic when it comes to the engine. I can tear it down and rebuild it like nothing. Ive been doing this with my dirt bikes for years, two stroke, four stroke, it doesnt matter, but electrical sucks. I did read what forchetto said about the regulater, it could be that. I have a voltage meter, does anyone know if you can test the regulater with one. I would also like to know if ChinaV had any symtoms other than the battery not holding a charge
Any suggestions, thanx.

151,

Definitely sounds like it's worth checking out the regulator/rectifier. Here's a nice little write up on testing the regs output on dansmc.com.

"Voltage Regulator. All the current from the charge coils would over charge the battery if we let it, so we need a voltage regulator to keep the battery charged at 12 volts. Your ohmmeter should have a DC volt scale. Set it at 20 volts and connect the positive and negative leads to the right battery terminals. Make sure the battery is fully charged, so we get a correct reading. Start the bike and rev it up. The volts should go up to 13.8-14.5 volts and then stay there. Much more, and it will over charge the battery. Much less, and the battery will never charge up. Some voltage regulators can be adjusted and some cannot. If you can't get it's cover off or if it is all sealed up, it's non adjustable. If you can get the cover off, you can clean the little contact points and adjust it with a screw driver till you get the right charging rate. Most, nowadays, are not adjustable."

Let us know what your results are!

CC

I have not solved my electrical problem yet, I'm in the states for a couple of weeks and still need to get a good voltage tester when I get back to China. I will be sure to post my experience after I get it figured out.

Cheers!
ChinaV

What strange symptoms!. It looks as if there could be an internal break within the battery itself, a bad main earth connection or a bad fuseholder. This component is of very poor quality. It lives behind the left hand side panel and it's a weedy thing. I have changed mine for an in-line fuseholder that takes normal car-type fuses:
http://www.safco1.com/Images2007/Lar...Fuseholder.jpg

Also check the starter relay connection posts. They sometimes come loose.

:thumbsup: Hi everybody! For those of you who still remember me, I am in my way to recovery and my Qingqi Motard 200 just needs some little tweaking to go rolling again... but most about it later.
I am in no ways proficient with motorcycle electricals (You might consider me a complete ignorant and I will not feel offended at all), but I want to throw up a little guessing. I completely agree with Forchetto in that the fuse holder in this bike looks cheesy, but my 5 cents` worth are not being wasted in that: A very good mechanic of my aquaintance told me, when my bike was new (it still is, but a little injured), that I should take care of a multi-wire connector that resides above and to the right of the battery, next to the chassis, one that has a rubber holder that fastens to a small bracket by pushing it. My friend told me that I will most certainly find it installed in such a way that it would allow to get water in (from riding in heavy rain or after an overzealous washing) and that it would not let that water to escape, eventually rendering the connectors inoperable. He adviced me to pull it out of its current position (even without havin seen my bike in the first place) and to re-locate it in a sort of "upside" position, supposedly less prone to let that water collecting, what really felt logical to me when I took out the left panel and found exactly what he told me (could that be the starter relay gizmo that Forch told about?) (?) :confused1: I did what he told me, but still don´t have the opportunity to prove its worth (guess that if nothing happens in the long term, at least it has not done any harm). I think it might be something to watch for.
Thanks to all of you who took time to reply when I told about my past accident.
Hope to write something about my remounting experience soon! Take care you all, pals!:icon10:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoDrunken

I should take care of a multi-wire connector that resides above and to the right of the battery, next to the chassis, one that has a rubber holder that fastens to a small bracket by pushing it. My friend told me that I will most certainly find it installed in such a way that it would allow to get water in

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The item you mention that is held by a chassis tab is the winker relay. There's a bunch of wires with a connector further up, but is well protected from water thrown by the wheel.
The thing to check is the tightness of starter relay connection posts and specially the main engine earth cable. This cable is responsible for all current out of the generator and all current into the starter motor. Any resistance there will make things funny.
The following pictures show this cable, at the chassis end and at the engine end. The main battery earth cable also has to be tight.

http://www.telecable.es/personales/a...atteryarea.jpg


http://www.telecable.es/personales/a...ngineearth.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

The following pictures show this cable, at the chassis end and at the engine end. The main battery earth cable also has to be tight.

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Also worth mentioning is the red battery positive (+) cable which attaches to the battery can be installed in a position which makes the cable rub against a metal frame/holder.

As a result, the outside insulation of the red cable wears away, touch the metal and constantly short the system. Maybe this in not probable but worth checking the installation of the battery connectors anyway.

CC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

The item you mention that is held by a chassis tab is the winker relay. There's a bunch of wires with a connector further up, but is well protected from water thrown by the wheel.
The thing to check is the tightness of starter relay connection posts and specially the main engine earth cable. This cable is responsible for all current out of the generator and all current into the starter motor. Any resistance there will make things funny.
The following pictures show this cable, at the chassis end and at the engine end. The main battery earth cable also has to be tight.

http://www.telecable.es/personales/a...atteryarea.jpg


http://www.telecable.es/personales/a...ngineearth.jpg

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:thumbsup:Thank you Forchetto! You seem to be a really educated and talented mechanic (Knowledge and talent don`t always go hand in hand, but you sure have both).
I have a question I would feel really pleased if you could answer it to me from the heart: Do you have a particular advice in regards of the breaking-in of a single cilinder-small displacement bike like ours? Mine is only 498 km old, and I opted to change the original oil as soon as 100 km and plan to do it again immediately before my project restoration of it. I believe that the owner`s manual doesn`t have to be followed by the letter, for any bike, because there are a lot more involved in it than performance seeking (liabillity concerns?). I know it is a touchy subject, but really, out of the record, what method would you advise? No lawyers here, so, PLEASE! don`t feel uncomfortable with my question and with what you would sincerely have to say. It`s just a question from a fellow who wants to learn from a lot more experienced friend.
Thanks again.:goodtime:

Running these motors in properly makes all the difference, I rev them high but never with full throttle or for prolonged periods, also never lug them up hills, get into a lower gear and keep revs up while using low throttle.
The ideal running in regime - you need the revs to free things up and make sure there are no high spots but not loading the engine by giving it too much throttle .
It was always suggested to me that the actual revs are not a problem within reason as long as the load on the engine is not high , so running along on half throttle down hill at near max speed is better than lugging up a hill in top "keeping the revs down" !.
Having said all that, there's a school of thought that recommends shorts bursts of near-full throttle to force gas behind the piston rings, making them expand and bed them in to the bores. They say that failure to do this leads to cylinder bores and rings not bedding-in properly resulting in lower compression and performance later on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

Running these motors in properly makes all the difference, I rev them high but never with full throttle or for prolonged periods, also never lug them up hills, get into a lower gear and keep revs up while using low throttle.
The ideal running in regime - you need the revs to free things up and make sure there are no high spots but not loading the engine by giving it too much throttle .
It was always suggested to me that the actual revs are not a problem within reason as long as the load on the engine is not high , so running along on half throttle down hill at near max speed is better than lugging up a hill in top "keeping the revs down" !.
Having said all that, there's a school of thought that recommends shorts bursts of near-full throttle to force gas behind the piston rings, making them expand and bed them in to the bores. They say that failure to do this leads to cylinder bores and rings not bedding-in properly resulting in lower compression and performance later on.

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:thumbsup:Thank you very much man! Your way of thinking is exactly the same I´ve always had. It really makes sense. The interface between the cylinder wall and the piston rings needs to have some load (without overheating) in order to make the rings` surface (which is not a perfectly circular one in the beginning) to exactly match the contours of the cil-wall. It really needs that pressure, one that only happens with those controlled bursts of power and reasonably kept revs. I also think that the warming and cooling alternate periods should be kept often in a new bike (for example, not running it for long periods in a particularly even rpm range). I believe that the most critical period of any new engine is in its first 100 km or so. That`s why I change the oil at that point. In the end, common sense prevails. Thanks again.:bowdown:

Thanks for all the info guys. Im thinking its the battery. Does anyone have any info on an aftermarket battery? Im thinking of getting a battery for a Suzuki DR200SE, the demensions are just a little off. The length of the Suzuki battery is about 3/4 inch or 19mm shorter than the QingQi battery. This probably doesnt matter, I just want to be sure.

It really doesn't matter so much unless there excess play in when it's placed in the cage. If there is, and it bothers you, then you can always pull teh Chinese trick of folding up some pieces of card-board box (or stiff foam if you have it) and jam it in between the cage and battery.

The other alternative is to find an exact match of battery by dimensions, but that may be more trouble than it's worth. If you do this, also be sure the terminals are on the same side and orientation of as the wiring.

Paz,
CC

The size discrepancy could be due to the Qingqi having a 12 volt 9 Amp/hour battery and the Suzuki DR200SE only a 6 Amp/hour.
The higher the amp/hour rating the higher the capacity and the harder and longer it will crank.
If you live in very cold climates it might make a difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

The size discrepancy could be due to the Qingqi having a 12 volt 9 Amp/hour battery and the Suzuki DR200SE only a 6 Amp/hour.
The higher the amp/hour rating the higher the capacity and the harder and longer it will crank.
If you live in very cold climates it might make a difference.

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Very true, I didn't realize there was a three amp difference! :eekers: However if 6A is good enough for the DR it's likely sufficient for the QingQi and may even save a couple pounds (not that the QingQi isn't light enough already). :riding:

Florida isn't usually an extremely cold place, especially if you're out on the panhandle, but more cranking amps never hurt. :thumbsup:

If you're looking for a quick swap then you could find/mail order a DR200 battery pretty fast. the other option would be to take the QingQi battery to a dealer and have them match one up for you. I guess it really depends on how much time you want to spend waiting for a new replacement! :mwink:

CC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

The item you mention that is held by a chassis tab is the winker relay. There's a bunch of wires with a connector further up, but is well protected from water thrown by the wheel.
The thing to check is the tightness of starter relay connection posts and specially the main engine earth cable. This cable is responsible for all current out of the generator and all current into the starter motor. Any resistance there will make things funny.
The following pictures show this cable, at the chassis end and at the engine end. The main battery earth cable also has to be tight.

http://www.telecable.es/personales/a...atteryarea.jpg


http://www.telecable.es/personales/a...ngineearth.jpg

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Hi forchetto... i need your help, maybe you can help me to solve my problem. The problem is when the battery weak or damage, i cannot start my engine using the lever kick start like in the picture below. So what you think? Anybody also can help is they know how to solve this problem.Thank you!!!

Attachment 7751

Hi Hescort and welcome to MCM!
My best bet would be to check the rectifier/regulator. That might be burnt and might need a replacement. If the R/R works ok, your battery'll get charger and you'll forget about kickstarting your bike.

Qingqi's motor should start regardless of the state of battery. Just kick start it properly or simply try to push start him in second gear.

http://www.triumphrat.net/members/44601-forchetto.html
if you looking for him....


Based on the information I would guess maybe a dead battery and flooded carburetor? Can you ever kick start the bike or do you only attempt to kick start it after multiple failed attempts with the electric ignition? Is the ignition clicking or is it going rrrrr? The first is a dead battery the later is fuel not enough or too much of it.

My bike is very difficult to kickstart when the battery is dead and will flood easily, when my battry is good, it kickstarts with ease. In reference to my original post at the top of this thread, I replaced the battery with a new one and the problem was solved. (The original battery went deffective after a few months.)

In response to Hescort's post, I have been kickstarting my bike recently with the battery pretty much dead. The lights come on when I turn on the ignition but are dim, and the electric starter will not turn over at all, the solinoid wont even click. A few days ago I kickstarted it and it began to sputter when I reved the engine, it went away after it warmed up. The next day it began to sputter when riding to work. So, I recognized these symtoms when I had the problem with the original battery. I replaced the battery yesterday with a new one, and problem solved. For whatever reason, the bike will not kickstart properly or run properly when the battery is dead.