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Jialing has added a new model to its website, it is a 223cc with a a six speed and a closed loop EFI.
JH250GY-5
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...fa2b8eff79.jpg
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The bike is a CRF230?
http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-cont...w-Wolf-041.jpg
Can you expect a Jialing version of an FTR223 and also CB223 to follow?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...963/FTR223.jpg
http://www.drsuda.co.jp/made/product...g/cb223_01.jpg
Does it come with free ECU upgrades?
That Jialing isn't a Honda, it's a Honda clone 223cc engine bike, the engines been available for a while, but this is the first time it's been put in a bike. Jialing only make Honda branded power washer and lawnmowers.
It’s the first time I’ve seen the 223cc Jialing engine with a sixth gear, the Honda CRF230M and CRF230L have a six speed. The Honda has a 30mm CV carburetor when offered in the US, However Honda does offer licensing of its PGM-FI for that engine.
It is very likely that Jialing licensed the PGM-FI from Honda....
Whoever is generating the English content on the Jialing site could use a English tutor, I would suggest one that has some technical knowledge.
Hahaha........... Another happy Jialing 600 owner huh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
The problem is that it's very hard to tell if this technology is licensed or just cloned. The fact that Jialing never mention Honda would make me suspect that it isn't officially licensed tech.
It is very similar to the Hero Motorcorp Impulse...
http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-con...torcycle-2.jpg
.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
Hi MJH,
Any idea of the price, and when would it be available to order?
I guess it would be OK to register with it being an fuel injection ?
Gra.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
This also looks good, is it a Chinese bike? in the word that it is available in China?
What is the cc ?
Ball park figure for pricing?
Gra.
I do not think that Honda itself offers EFI on that engine, not in Japan they do not. The FTR and the CB223 are not EFI, neither is the XR223 the name of the CRF230 in Japan, they all have a 30mm carburetor. All the versions of the engine offered in Japan have carburetors.The only PGM-FI version of the 223cc that I have seen offered in any market is the Hero Motorcorp Karizma. The chart has the rated emissions of the 30mm CV carburetor configured models offered in Japan. That meet CIII standards, which are > 150 mL (UDC + EUDC) CO(2.0) HC(0.3) NOx(0.15), however the testing methods may differ?
Compliance level, Regulatory compliance, 2006 2.0 0.3 0.15
The reason that I posted this is that a 223cc engine with a 30mm carburetor meets the CIII standard, at least the Honda models offered in Japan do. They are at the level required of motorcycles that are over 150cc in fact the level is identical to the output of these models. I do not believe that EFI is required for engines over 150cc only that the configurations meet the minimums.
I have no information on what the retail prices would be, it should be priced below the Jinan Qingqi 250 models I would assume or competitively to those.
Jialing is the government and the government wrote the regulations? I am just surmising.
Why would they require EFI, if they are, and not just set a level for the emissions…its pretty useless if everyone takes off the emissions controls isn’t it?
How many grams in a ton? I believe about 900,000 grams.
How many motorcycles and how many km each day are ridden, collectively?
The 223cc Hondas sell for around (493,000Yen) $6,000.00 USD in Japan, the CRF230 in the USA retail for over $5,000.00.
The Hero Karizma model sells for $2,200.00 in India, it has the PGM-FI but is not a six speed.
The 223cc models with a six speed and the PGM-FI priced lower in any market would have a much larger potential market. How much larger is obviously unknown a matter of acceptance of the brand they are offered under. Its a quandary as obviously Honda does not want to undercut its own market share globally, but they are not able to reach the full market potential of that product line at its current production costs, it is limited by those costs.
The actual retail prices offered in the USA on the CRF230 are greatly reduced in the market.
They are backlogged to 2009 model years, the 2012 MSRP is $5,399.00, which seems delusional, and killing any real demand. Honda could source those out of Jialing and retail them for $2,999.00 but dealer are not ready to do that? Jialing could offer those at that price and with a line of scooters also priced competitively.
Its a fickle industry…..I think the 223cc should be made in China and globally distributed, but Honda cannot do that it would hurt them and their domestic production? I really do not think they sell that many of the 223cc they are simply too expensive.
It is not just the engineering it’s the entire business process that must be exemplary and consistent across all markets. Honda should support and proliferate the PGM-FI and compensated for doing so, doing so would have an overall positive impact on the environment or at least mitigate the negative impact.
The UDC and EUDC are emission test cycles, they are reflective of time series data points. They are defined in the EEC Directive 90/C81/01.
The only part of the motorcycle that defines who owns it is the tail of the VIN, its last characters in the string. The entire VIN as a complete thread linked to your name and address is the registration. They link between the two but would not be seen together unless accessed. If accessed then who accesses the data then recorded. That is security protocol and if that information was linked to GPS that being the model and geographic terrain, then the time series is complete and the data generated comprehensive.
Access to your routes and related data point secured and could be only accessed through a court order, as a warrant, through a judicial body.
For emission purposes the data would have anonymous vehicles and geographic areas. They would be monitoring emission and fuel consumption. They would or could also monitor average speed, then metrics could be used to regulate traffic and also be used in advanced urban planning.
It could evolve into a system that informed you real-time that road you are on currently has limited speeds and conversely also inform you that the road you are on has an unlimited speed. . But that would be way off since it would require all vehicles be on the grid real time.
I think you are right, although a little off the mark. Firstly I agree the 2012 MSRP is $5,399.00 is too much for the Honda 223cc, and that they should offer at least a made in China alternative. Honda don't have any agreement that I can see with Jialing in terms of motorcycles. Wu Yang (five rams) and Sundiro are their joint venture operators in China. I believe that they favor dealing with Sundiro because they are actually from Tai**n, but this helps them get around the joint venture rules and gives them a steady partner. I also think that they should make an alternative of all 'workhorse' machines in China with Sundiro from 125cc right through to 500cc twin (CBF500). Yamaha already have a similar business model to my suggestion, but the appearance to the bikes is unclear to the consumer of the origin of the bike. I would hope that Honda could include the name of the Chinese subsidiary in the logo of the Chinese motorcycle, like this:Quote:
They are backlogged to 2009 model years, the 2012 MSRP is $5,399.00, which seems delusional, and killing any real demand. Honda could source those out of Jialing and retail them for $2,999.00 but dealer are not ready to do that? Jialing could offer those at that price and with a line of scooters also priced competitively.
Attachment 7041
Just make these….
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y.../cb223Sbig.jpg
Then conjure riders to aspire to these eventually.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...tokyo_0002.jpg
Honda Thailand will be manufacturing the new CRF250L, it has a DOHC 4-valve 249cc water cooled engine/six speed and with PGM-FI.
The model will begin selling in Japan in two weeks.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/img_side.jpg
Here are some images of the New CRF250L...
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y..._machine01.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y..._machine02.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y..._machine03.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y..._machine06.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y..._offroad01.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y..._offroad02.jpg
I am not entirely sure who has excess production in china? I can only assume that those that had the largest looses in sales do? I can also assume that if Jialing gained production of the Honda 223cc product line that it would fill that production gap.
Wuyang and Sunduro both offer production, however they are also well linked into Honda China’s distribution and sales network. Since they are managed in alignment they may not have much excess capacity in production and can only gain new production through expansion? I do not know, how could I am not that psychic, I can only surmise from my position. Jialing is not totally disconnected they are just not aligned on motorcycles and could easily be a production source supplying into the Honda network, Jialing has some excess production capacity for sure.
Since I can already get the CBR250R in my market for $4,000.00, because it is out of Thailand. Then I would hope that then I will also see the CRF250L eventually and also priced lower…..but the CRF230 then needs a lowered cost production center, it should not go away it should just be sourced from China and for less.
The CRF250L could come to the US at $4,500.00 and then the CRF230 drop to $3,500.00.
They are waiting to see if the small bike interest is enduring? Then they also want to see if the slightly higher offering in china will generate sales or not?
I really would like to see the CB223S and FTR223 offered in the US, but they never will sell unless they are priced reasonably.
Honda has not imported a 230 model into the USA since 2009, the last application for an EPA certificate was issued in 2009. The real Honda, that being the one made in Japan was rated at 17.2 hp (12.7kW @7500rpm)
So once the 2009 are gone they may not come back?
Since the CBR250R is being offered with a 19.4kw/26.4hp for a much lower MSRP then the CRF230 models it will likely get replaced with the CRF250L and also there will likely be a Motocross Standard version to follow it.
So I am thinking the 230 will leave the US market and hope it comes back with a lowered MSRP through China. It could and it could be EFI and also sold in china as well.
Since the CBR250R is priced under the competition then likely so will the CRF250L and then that would bring in a Chinese line at under that, an MSRP under $4,000.00 for the entire 223 line.
If I went to the local Honda dealer and saw a CB233S for $3,500.00, I would buy one.
http://static.flickr.com/3610/3391490201_1f37bf8212.jpg
I would not mind seeing a CMX250 engine in the CB223S design, I am quite sure the Chinese can handle that maybe people can stop telling them that all Americans want are “choppers”! The version could be named the CB234T and basically would be a the same as the CB223S but offer a 234cc carbureted twin with a five speed.
Honda did not get it right with the Nighthawk 250, however that does not mean that there is no interest in a 250 twin standard its just that the Nighthawk was just so totally uninspired.
http://www.motorcycle.com/classified...5180-full0.jpg
I actually inquired with Jialing about the EFI on their 223cc, they offered that it is a closed loop and that the actual manufacturer of the EFI is not disclosed. The information is not available to the sales staff, it is a secret to them, only the staff in the R&D department know the supplier of the EFI.
The motorcycle is not being promoted properly is it….not as the new Honda CRF250L is being promoted .
Qlink has not brought their DS250 (Shineray) to the market yet, that would be an option to the CRF250L. Qlink should be able to bring the bike to the market properly but they really need to address their approach, their overall approach is off kilter, they may want to consider hiring some professionals to organize their operations.
Did Cycle World include the Qlink model, no and why would they, if they did they would be then compromising their integrity by doing so. The good people at Qlink need to ask themselves why they are not on the list of optional model choices to the CRF250L?
Point is that if you take a unprofessional approach to the market do not expect any synergistic affiliation in that approach, expect to be repelled. There are no good excuses are there, if it takes to long to get ready for the party that’s fine, take as long as you like, but you may consider keeping the door shut whilst you pull up your knickers. We are willing to wait, its just that we do not need to see all that.
Dear MJH,Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
Do you have pictures of the Jialing 250 (223)? I'm a bit confused about this. Is it an OEM bike, or Jialing branded?
thanks
The only image of JH250GY-5 are or appear to be artist renderings?
http://www.jialingmotor.com/product/...otorcycle.html
There are some new models on the TRAXX website, not any with the new 223cc engine only bikes with a OHC 135cc that Jialing is selling in Brazil that offers 13hp.
JOTO 135 and FLY 135
http://www.traxx.com.br/novotraxx/saiba-mais-joto135
http://www.traxx.com.br/saiba-mais-fly135
The Honda CRF250L is being offered in the USA, its MSRP is $4,500.00
What I am requesting/suggesting/recommending is a CB230, CL230 and a CX230.
These would be all made by Jialing in China for HONDA.
The CB230 would be the same design.
The CL would be a FTR223 with a raised exhaust to make it a scrambler.
The CX would be a dual sport, the JH250GY-5
All would have an MSRP of $3,500.00 and offered through Honda dealers.
http://www.goobike.com/catalog/detai...03_2003_03.jpg
http://classic-motorbikes.net/images...onda-cl175.jpg