Only in Beijing? Protect your legal plate!!!!

We have all become used to strange "rules" and "policies" in China, but this one hit home ... hard.

Over on a Chinese board, there is a lively discussion about a "rule" in Beijing concerning motorcycle plates. Here is the thread.

Apparently, if someone steals your legal plate ("A" plates are around 25,000 rmb these days), you are screwed.

Now, one would naturally (and reasonably) assume that if someone stole the plate off your bike, that you would just go down to the Traffic Management Bureau (TMB) and endure the bureaucracy for a replacement (either the same number, or a new number). Well, NOT in Beijing. If someone steals your motorcycle plate, you can NOT get a new plate until the police find your old one. Yup, that's correct ... you are without a plate until the police, via their stellar investigative and enforcement practices, find your old one (and what is the chance of that?!?!?!?!)

Apparently, this "rule" is only in Beijing.

After reading about this, and chatting with a few "in the know" people I trust, I decided I better go to the source (TMB) for an answer. True to form, there isn't really an answer, but generally yes, if someone steals your plate you cannot get a new one until the old one turns up. Incredible.

OK, so I asked the "helpful authorities" ... that means, therefore, that if you drop 400,000 rmb on a fancy new LEGAL BMW/Harley/Ducatti, and then some joker steals the license plate one dark night, you actually can't ride it any more. The answer ... sure you can, but first you have to get a brand new plate (i.e., another 25,000 rmb). OMG.

It gets worse ... there is another "rule" that when you have a new plate, you cannot transfer it to another bike until after 3 years of ownership on one bike. So, in the (unlikely) event that after you drop another 25K for another plate and the old plate miraculously turns up, guess what ... you now have two legal A plates on one bike, but cannot transfer either until one of those A plates is 3 years old.

What if the thief steals the whole bike? Same story - your plate is gone, too.

For reference, with cars, if someone steals your plate you are entitled to a quick replacement, same or different number (your choice).

I'm going to weld my plates to my bikes.

Hi Lao Jia,

Thats a strange rule if ever I heard one.

How come cars are treated differently?
Surly an "A" plate cost the same for a car, as a "A" plate for a motorcycle?

May be I am missing some thing?

Gra.

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Originally Posted by Graham

Hi Lao Jia,

Thats a strange rule if ever I heard one.

How come cars are treated differently?
Surly an "A" plate cost the same for a car, as a "A" plate for a motorcycle?

May be I am missing some thing?

Gra.

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Hi Graham

Cars & motorcycles are completely different kettles of fish. Some argue, apparently correctly, that there is a distinct anti-motorcycle attitude/campaign.

In Beijing, there is a fixed number of existing motorcycle plates. No new ones are being issued. Therefore, if you want a plate on a new bike, you must buy an old bike that has a legal plate and then scrap that old bike and transfer the plate to your new bike. This secondary market has bid legal plate prices up to around 25K. Car plates are a few hundred rmb, but there is the silly "lottery" system for cars in Beijing. Nothing is simple in China.

Cheers

Maybe you can have some extras made….
http://www.buildasign.com/LicensePla...FQ7sKgodl0YM4w

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Originally Posted by MJH

Maybe you can have some extras made….
http://www.buildasign.com/LicensePlates?pscid=10330&extcid=1375&mtcid=e&ntwc id=g&kwcid=custom made plates&gclid=CIfs1fif7a8CFQ7sKgodl0YM4w

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Yeah, it crossed my mind ... get duplicates made and use those on the bike. Keep the genuine ones in a locked safe at home.

But, of course, I would never do anything like that :naughty: ... nope, not me :icon10:

Well this is because the rules are made by idiots who love cars. So if this 'policy' makes it more likely that motorcycles are illegal them they'll be damn happy about that.

This Chinese car love affair really needs to end. There is no sidewalk, park or tree safe from being turned into a retard friendly car moron parking area. The parking is bad enough, the driving, freaking abysmal.

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

This Chinese car love affair really needs to end. There is no sidewalk, park or tree safe from being turned into a retard friendly car moron parking area. The parking is bad enough.....

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G'Day,

Few more parks gone disappear in Shanghai in the future if they ever enforce this proposal.......

No parking spot could well mean no buying a car


2012-5-5 | SHANGHAI DAILY


Locals who fail to secure a parking space for themselves may be banned from buying cars in future as the city moves to tackle the growing problem of parking lot shortage.


The new policy will require people to prove to the government that "they have already acquired a car space" in order to purchase a vehicle, local police said yesterday. This means that potential car buyers would have to rent or buy a car park space first as a precondition to buying a vehicle. Details and timetable for the rule are still being discussed. The government hopes to use the new strategy to control the city's deteriorating parking lot shortage.


But the scheme is already stirring controversy, with some locals deeming it groundless.


"How can such a policy be legitimate?" questioned a local resident, who declined to give his name. The office worker lives in downtown Zhongshan Park area and hopes to buy a car. But the problem of getting a stable parking space around his crowded neighborhood along with related high costs has put a dampener on his plans.


Ge Ming, a local orthopedic doctor who plans to buy his first family car early next year to prepare for his son's first school year, is also surprised at the policy.


He argued that since shortage of parking facilities was most severe in downtown, mainly within the Middle Ring Road, asking people to secure a car space before buying a new car will hardly be helpful in solving the problem.


"It's not difficult for residents living in suburban districts to secure a stable parking space in their neighborhoods. But if they drive into downtown on a daily basis, parking will remain a big headache," the doctor said.


Instead of setting up a threshold for future car buyers, he said it would be wiser for the government to carry out policies to effectively restrict the number of cars flowing into downtown.


Garage buildings


Traffic police said in some cities abroad between 5 to 10 percent of urban parking capacity comes from dedicated garage buildings, which offer big parking capacity. But in Shanghai, the percentage is only 1 percent, with the rest supported by garages inside shopping malls and office buildings and legal street-side parking zones.


Local authorities said they would relieve the shortfall by building more space-efficient garages inside local neighborhoods.


The local government says it relies on the monthly car plate auction to help control the number of automobiles on local roads. But despite skyrocketing plate prices, which continue to scale new highs, the number of locally registered cars continues to soar, reaching about 1.7 million at present.

I have been living here for 2 years now and have no intention of buying a car, it would be nice when its raining or cold as hell but I can get around if I have to by taxi, bus or subway. Its miserable but I can deal. Wouldnt it make sense to put cars on transponders and make travelling inside of the busy areas, here that is inside the 3rd ring road, a toll situation? And I dont mean cheap, make it somewhat painful to drive into the city. Then the parking would not be such an issue and the traffic would thin some as well. Most of what I see is one person and one car. I know it is not "fashionable" to ride the bus or subway and sometimes especially at rush hours to ride public transport, but the overall pleasantries would be increased tenfold. With an increase on demand for the public transport would hopefully spur the local city governments to add more quality and quantity of public transport and be funded by the tolls and fines when people dont keep up the transponders or run without them at all.

Dear Scratchndent

Your congestion-charge makes perfect sense, and it would probably work. The revenue could be used for additional public transport.

Unfortunately, because it is a good idea, it will never be implemented.

I think the City of London did something like that, and it worked. And you're right - it has to be expensive.

Cheers

re: mandatory parking spot prior to purchase. I think some other SE Asia city does it ... maybe Bangkok? Singapore? Not sure, but it rings a bell.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Unfortunately, because it is a good idea, it will never be implemented.

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Exactly right. Many Chinese people feel that they are owed car. It's something they must have, the 'next level': their share of economic development. One child family, two cars. :weary: Anything that might put a curb on that including getting in the way of a car, or anything that restricts a car's movement, or place to park will be vigorously opposed.
'Why do you want a car?' I keep asking. 'Because in America they have cars', yeah but Americans don't usually live walking distance from their work, shopping school and extended family.

Congestion charging is nothing new, it was pioneered in Singapore years before London. The Singaporean Chinese could even send them blueprints for the scheme in Chinese!

I think Singapore and a bunch of Japanese cities make people have a parking spot before they buy a car. In Japan they think 'oh, jeez I can't afford a car and parking spot, I'll get a bike'. I China they think 'oh, that's unfair for cars, ban bikes'.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Yeah, it crossed my mind ... get duplicates made and use those on the bike. Keep the genuine ones in a locked safe at home.

But, of course, I would never do anything like that :naughty: ... nope, not me :icon10:

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Hey LJH, in the event that you come across a supplier from whom you would never order anything like this, could you let me know so that I can join you in ensuring that I also never do this?

Wow.
Just W.O.W.
Just read it and it sounds unbelievable. But quite imaginable. Probably the best option is to design some kind of clip-on plate holders or something of that sort so you could take them with you whenever you go home or to a shop.
BTW, what happens if the plate is damaged?

[COLOR=#848484 !important]Damn, I am thinking about getting a bike in BJ. Some of the bikers here told me the police don't really crack down on grey market or non plated bikes. I do see a few non plated bikes at Sanlitun. is it worth getting a bj plate now?[/COLOR]

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Originally Posted by Wrangler

Damn, I am thinking about getting a bike in BJ. Some of the bikers here told me the police don't really crack down on grey market or non plated bikes. I do see a few non plated bikes at Sanlitun. is it worth getting a bj plate now?

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Is it worth getting into an accident with(out) (fake)plate and having to pay an amount equal to or even more than the cost of a BJ plate? Perhaps being kicked out of the country!
They don't really crack down at the moment, but when they do you might lose your bike, have trouble getting gas or can't easily sell your bike.

To get back on topic, what's a fake plate anyway? If someone stole my plates, I would get what some would call fake plates. Just because those plates weren't issued by the Traffic Management Bureau is the only thing that makes them fake, if I get a (fake) plate with my number (like in my papers) I'm basically still showing my bikes identity or whatever you'd like to call it. Which would still be better than driving without plates at all!

Be honest, who here is going to have a bike sitting in the garage because its plates were stolen?

Great news to report.

Effective a few days ago (July 26, 2013), the Beijing Traffic Management Bureau has implemented a new policy concerning A plates.

If you lose your A plate(s), either by theft of the whole bike or just the theft of the plates, you can now have them officially replaced. However, you have to file a police report (of course), and then wait a year (to give the authorities time to find the bike and/or plates). In one year, you can get new A plates issued.

Obviously, the policy isn't perfect (the 1 year waiting period), but this is so much better than before.

Progress ... with Chinese characteristics.

:clap:

Any further details? After a year you will get new plates with the exact same number (someone else could be riding around with your number), or a new number?

In Netherlands the number plates are as following "XX-XX-XX", if you're plates were stolen and you have new ones issued you'll get the same number but with a small "1" on the first "dash". If that one would get stolen again, you'll get a small "2" on the dash and so on!

Sorry, no more info. We probably won't know the details until it actually starts to happen, a year from now. Be a bummer if one had something like 88888 (most desirable) and has it replaced with 47474 (least desirable 4s & 7s).

Interesting how the NL deals with reissues. I guess if your plate has been stolen, and you have a reissue with the same number (and the extra "little number"), you'd probably be pulled over by the police on a regular basis.

Why wait a year just get a load of fake plates made with your number ??? and if yours gets nicked dont tell the police just put back one of your fake plates and ride as normal "if" and when you do get stopped by the police the plate number will tie up with your VIN number for the bike so the police will not think it is fake or move out of Beijing :confused1::confused1::confused1::confused1:

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Sorry, no more info. We probably won't know the details until it actually starts to happen, a year from now. Be a bummer if one had something like 88888 (most desirable) and has it replaced with 47474 (least desirable 4s & 7s).

Interesting how the NL deals with reissues. I guess if your plate has been stolen, and you have a reissue with the same number (and the extra "little number"), you'd probably be pulled over by the police on a regular basis.

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Here in this city of Zhejiang, no plates with the 'A' prefix are issued, as all plates (motorcycles, cars, vans, buses etc) start with B. All A's issued plates are from Hangzhou and towns under that cities jurisdiction. The second digit in the series happens to be the district where the plate is issued. In my case this digit happens to be number '8' :) Consequently I can generally tell from looking at the prefix letter and the next number in the sequence where the licence plate is issued/place of vehicle owners registered residence (doesn't always mean they live there though since it is tied in with the persons Hukou).

All plates in this city are issued using a computer system.

The registering owner gets to push a button to stop a random selected set of plates spinning. The spinning combination is fast so that it is nearly impossible to really get exactly the plate combo one might like out of those being offered at the time. Once the button is pushed, 3 plate options are then presented, and the owner has a choice out of the 3 plates.

Me and a few others have plates with a combination of the highly desirable number 8, the only difference is that one of the numbers has to be a letter. Just plated my new bike the other day with 8_888 (underscore is where the letter goes) which joins two more in my fleet with the same combo - each though with a different letter. The other bikes belonging to friends with these combos are all HD's & one BMW R1200GS. Plates stolen or lost here, require issuing of new sets of numbers & plates, though with these special "8_888" plates that require guanxi to get in the first place, it's likely we'd get some special consideration. No one has had this problem though... touch wood. While the numbers themselves might be highly desirable, I'd think the plates are less attractive as a target for thieves as they are likely too distinctive than just an arbitrary set of random letters and numbers on some nondescript plate/bike.

Anyway these plates are not issued in the same manner as the above computer selection. The alternative method requires guanxi.

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Originally Posted by prince666

Why wait a year just get a load of fake plates made with your number ??? and if yours gets nicked dont tell the police just put back one of your fake plates and ride as normal "if" and when you do get stopped by the police the plate number will tie up with your VIN number for the bike so the police will not think it is fake or move out of Beijing

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1. Previously, if the bike was stolen, losing that 50K plate was rubbing salt in the wound. This was the key reason many people were upset. Bike thefts in Beijing have reached record numbers.
2. Previously, if just the plate was stolen, you could get a fake one made ... but all the fake ones I have seen do not have the little security emblems built into them. Hence, an angry policeman could make your life miserable. Or, it would be obvious when you tried to scrap the bike & have a new plate issued. Or, if you sold the bike and the buyer tried to transfer the plate. Fake plates look good from a distance, but you can tell from up close ... and if I can tell, I'm damn sure the officials can tell.

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

Me and a few others have plates with a combination of such numbers, the only difference is that one of the numbers has to be a letter. Just plated my new bike the other day with 8_888 (underscore is where the letter goes) which joins two more in my fleet with the same combo - each though with a different letter. The other bikes belonging to friends with these combos are all HD's & one BMW R1200GS. Plates stolen or lost here, require issuing of new sets of numbers & plates, though with these special "8_888" plates that require guanxi to get in the first place, it's likely we'd get some special consideration. No one has had this problem though... touch wood.

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That is cool that you have a matching series with great numbers. In Beijing, they seem to have cracked down on A plate issuances, and plate numbers are always issued sequentially. I've heard from a plate agent that, in Beijing, when a desirable number is due to come up (e.g., 66666 was recently issued), a dealer and/or agent will time the scrappings/transfers so that the dealer/agent will do a few dozen bikes at the same time. This is one of the reasons why, sometimes, the dealer/agent might say you have to wait a few weeks to get plates ... and why the plate number I always seem to get is a few numbers away from a really cool number. Its tough being a nobody.

In Beijing, the B plates are an entirely different kettle of fish. Because the government still issues new B plates (i.e., the number of B plates on the road is not fixed), and it does so in the satellite TMB offices throughout Beijing (each office has its own stock of B plates), one can get lucky. But B plates also have to be issued sequentially from the stock pile (the TMB computer demands this). A guy just posted on a Chinese website that he just bought his first ever motorcycle/scooter, and when he B-plated it, he got the cool number W0000, from an office in the West of Beijing. Good for him - nice intro to 2 wheels!

Last week I was reading a thread about ST1300 on motorfans and came across a posting from an owner of a legal K1600GT in Shanghai, who found that his Shanghai A plate had been copied and was adorning a very similar (same colour, same topbox etc) K1600GT down in GuangDong. He had photos of all his paperwork proving legal import, taxes paid, plates issued and so on (removing any identifiable information though). He had photos posted of his bike and the plate, and quite a number of the K1600GT with the copies of his plates, and showed the few little subtle differences. Two of the differences were how the plate had been mounted on the rear of his K1600GT using the standard top holes for mounting the rear plate, versus the fake plates upon which two new holes had been drilled to the plate so that very slight obstruction of the number/letters occurred. For the uninitiated they'd likely never notice, and the obstruction was only subtle, and really almost not worth the effort. Any traffic camera would still pick up the total plate letter, number combo, so to my mind little is gained, mounting the plate in the manner it has been. The other other only visual difference was that the Shanghai legit bike had a LED brake light bar integrated into the top of the topbox, while this was missing in the 'fake' bike.

The interesting thing was that the legit owner didn't really have a beef with the fake, and would like to meet the fake bike owner... as they share the passion of motorcycling. A few of the posts in reply also were of the same thought process, while some doubted the whole post.

^another difference at least from observing the posted photos is that the two bikes share slightly different mufflers, note the cut-aways under the cans.

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Originally Posted by prince666

Why wait a year just get a load of fake plates made with your number ??? and if yours gets nicked dont tell the police just put back one of your fake plates and ride as normal "if" and when you do get stopped by the police the plate number will tie up with your VIN number for the bike so the police will not think it is fake or move out of Beijing :confused1::confused1::confused1::confused1:

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It's not the first time that I read comments on the same line in the forum. If you clone your stolen plate and put it on your bike, sure it matches with VIN number and whatnot and sure the policeman that stops you will think it's not a fake. But the real point is this: then what happens when the guy that stole your plate gets a million tickets for speeding, or worse he uses his bike for criminal deeds? That's why you have to report your plate as stolen, so your identity won't be linked anymore with that license plate number!

Do you see my point?

I still don't see a rational, viable, legal solution to a 150'000rmb-worth stolen 沪A plate. That's one of the reasons I won't buy one. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by vale46

It's not the first time that I read comments on the same line in the forum. If you clone your stolen plate and put it on your bike, sure it matches with VIN number and whatnot and sure the policeman that stops you will think it's not a fake. But the real point is this: then what happens when the guy that stole your plate gets a million tickets for speeding, or worse he uses his bike for criminal deeds? That's why you have to report your plate as stolen, so your identity won't be linked anymore with that license plate number

Do you see my point?

I still don't see a rational, viable, legal solution to a 150'000rmb-worth stolen 沪A plate. That's one of the reasons I won't buy one. Cheers.

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Yes i see your point very clear just like the person that bikerdoc talks about wear someone clone his plate ?? but he could prove by the pictures what was his bike and more likely the clone bike would be used not near you ?? so just with that fact alone you can clearly show it was not me ?? yes you could have a little bit of hag with the police but not as much as not having the use of your bike for a year or more

Do you see my point now

all bikes could be clone with a fake plate and not just the stolen ones

just a point when you pick a number for your bike why not pick the numbers "4" have you notices how many cars /bike dont have the number 4 in the plate ??? number 4 is for "death" in china so with loads of 4 in your plate no one is going to nick/clone it just my 2 cents :mwink: :mwink: :mwink: :mwink:

Attachment 13004

and maybe car divers will keep out of your way as well

A full list of what numbers mean in china can be seen here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture

To give you a better idea of how our solution in NL looks like. Reproduction will get a small number added.

Car:
http://www.camperleven.nl/db_img/rdw..._kenteken1.gif

Motorcycle:

http://www.autowaard.nl/media/Afbeel...0vk%20geel.jpg

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Originally Posted by prince666

just a point when you pick a number for your bike why not pick the numbers "4" have you notices how many cars /bike dont have the number 4 in the plate ??? number 4 is for "death" in china so with loads of 4 in your plate no one is going to nick/clone it just my 2 cents :mwink: :mwink: :mwink: :mwink:

Attachment 13004

and maybe car divers will keep out of your way as well

A full list of what numbers mean in china can be seen here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture

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True, but very few have the ability to choose ones numbers/plate. Serious guanxi is needed for that to occur.

"True, but very few have the ability to choose ones numbers/plate. Serious guanxi is needed for that to occur. "

Yes no easy way around it but as we all say TIC. just happy i dont live in a big city

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barry

To give you a better idea of how our solution in NL looks like. Reproduction will get a small number added.

Car:
http://www.camperleven.nl/db_img/rdw..._kenteken1.gif

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The license plates in PRC, share some of the same security features, such as blind embossing of a certain symbol from the underside that raises the surface of the plate in several areas. Several hieroglyphics that are viewable depending on the viewing angle and ambient lighting. The fakes generally don't have these security features, nor older plates issued. Inconsistent enforcement is an issue, aside from fairness in the 'system' as well as multiple 'other' factors e.g. education, ability and willingness of authorities et al.