Chengdu-Kathmandu Ride: T-Bit Border Crossing Question

I think I'm goin' to Kathmandu

I think it's really where I'm goin' to
Hey, if I ever get out of here
That what I'm gonna do

K-k-k-k-k-k-Kathmandu
I think it's really where I'm goin' to
Hey, if I ever get out of here
I'm goin' to Kathmandu

Working on a trip plan and key word here is where I "think" I'm going.....or perhaps I should say, "desire to go".

The plan would be to ride to Kathmandu from Chengdu end-June/beg-July. Current sketch is to ship the JH600 into Chengdu and ride west thru to L-hasa then down to the Nepal border at Kodari and a 3 day RT ride to Kathmandu.

Estimated # of Riders: 4
Total Days: 17
Total Riding Days: 13
Total R&R Days: 2
Travel Days: 2
Estimated Distance: 3,915
Estimated km/day: 301

Questions:
The official response from local travel agencies is that the permits they offer are NOT for overland independent travel, and that foreigners on motorcycles are not allowed to cross into T-bit and ride overland. But with that said there are many postings across the internet of foreigners crossing over independently on bus, with no issues during the routine inspection stops.

On MCM I've seen various postings on this issue:
Yangtsepete has arranged CJ750 rides, but he uses a guide.
Felix has commented that it's impossible
Chinabiker made the following genius posting:

You don't need a permit to travel between provinces except for teebed and some sensitive places bordering it.
But adding....
1 there are no rules
2 there are tons of rules to be followed
3 both, 1 and 2 can be simultaneously applied
4 different village - different rules
5 what worked yesterday, may not work today but may again tomorrow

So, based on the wisdom of Chinabiker:
1. Has anyone recently crossed into T-bit via motorcycle? Either Chinese or Foreigner?
2. What's the current state of affairs for crossing into T-bit overland as a foreign passport holder using public transportation (e.g. bus)?
3. Rules for riding in and over with a guide? Possible ways to get around this so you can do it independently?
4. What would be the process for Chinese Nationals to crossing on motorcycle? Curious...
5. What would the best/easiest routes be?
* Coming from Chengdu on the Sichuan-T-bit highway?
* Coming from Kunming via Deqen on the G214?
6. Provided we can sort some of this out and take a crack at this ride - with respect to the types of roads this ride would include is 300 km/day feasible or would this be too ambitious [not looking to iron-butt each day]?

For info on permits - see next posting.

Some info on the T-bit Travel Permits (TTP)
T-bit Travel Permits (TTP) is necessary for foreigners to get into T-bitan Autonomous Region, Explore T-bit Team can apply it for you and usually it takes only 3 working days, but if you are traveling into restricted areas, then you need more additional permits and documents which will take longer time. Once you confirm your trip with us, we request you to send us clear scan copies or photo of your passports and Chinese visa at least 20 days in advance by email as it is required for applying T-bit Travel Permits, when it is issued we will send either a copy of original of the permit to your hotel in China. If you will fly into T-bit then we will send the original permit to your hotel in China as you need it to board the flight, if you will take the train into T-bit, then we will send a copy of the permit by email and you can bring a copy to board the train.
Note: Diplomats, Journalists, professional media photographer and government officials are not able to issue their travel permit through ordinary travel agencies. They are only able to travel T-bit under the arrangement of Foreign Affairs Department, Economic Development Committee, etc.

Both Alien's Travel Permit and Military Permits are required if your tour cover or pass through a restricted area, ATP is easily obtainable at your arrival as it should be applied with your original passports, where as Military Permit should be applied along with the T-bit Travel Permit in advance and it will take about 7 working days to issue.
Documentations to enter into T-bit from Nepal.
Travel from T-bit from Nepal
by land or air: If you plan to travel to T-bit from Nepal, you must get your T-bit group visa from the Chinese embassy in Kathmandu, whether you already have a Chinese visa or not, T-bit group visa is compulsory for all tourist to enter T-bit from Nepal. TheT-bit Group Visa is a A4 size sheet of paper, with the name, sex, nationality, passport number, date of birth and occupation of each member of your group listed. The dates of entry and exit are precisely recorded. Usually, the visa is valid only for the length of the trip you have booked but it's possible to extend the visa for few additional days, but only for staying in L-hasa. There will be two original copies of the T-bit Group Visa, one for immigration at the entry and another for the exit. ExploreT-bit Team can easily help you to obtain the T-bit Group visa through our partner agent in Kathmandu. We highly recommend you to don’t apply for individual Chinese visa in your country if you decided to travel to T-bit from Nepal, since when you apply for the group visa to entering T-bit, the Chinese embassy will cancel your individual Chinese visa.

Below are the cost of group visas for different nationalities;

Category;	Number of working days to obtain it;	Cost for American passport holders	Other nationalities;
Normal;	5 days	USD140	USD50
Urgent	3 days	USD144	USD65
Top Urgent	1 day	USD175	USD85
Note; T-bit group visa is only applicable on Monday, Wednesday and Friday(three days in a week). Also the local Nepalese agencies charge USD20-50 per person service charge according to the number of people in the group.

FAQs
What documents do I need to send you to apply for TTP?
Once you have confirmed your tour with us, we need you to send us clear scanned copies of Passportsand China Visas for every member of the group to apply for the T-bot Travel Permit. If your China Visa is not an “L” visa, then you must also provide additional documents such as student certificates, work permits, residence permits and so on.

How long does the T-bit Permit application process take?

Normally, T-bit permits can be issued in 3 working days, but if your tour itinerary covers some restricted or unopened area like EBC, Mt. Kailash, Sichuan-T-bit highway and Yunnan-T-bithighway, you may need several different permits which could take around 7 working days.

What kind of trip requires the Military Permit, PSB Permit a

Military and PSB Permits are only needed for those trips going through sensitive areas or a border region; these trips include the Mt. Kailash trip, Sichuan-T-bit Overland Tour, T-bit-Kashigar Overland Tour and so on. Alien's Travel Permits are necessary if you are going to Mt. Everest Base Camp, Samye Monastery (southern part of T-bit ), Nyinchi (Eastern part of T-bit) and Mt. Kailash, but these can be issued from the local PSB just before you enter the region.

How do I obtain the T-bit Travel Permit?

To obtain T-bit Travel Permits, it is necessary to make your travel arrangements through a genuine local travel agency, providing clear scanned copies of you passport and China visa. Please note that it’s impossible to board any flights or trains to T-bit without the Travel Permit. The permits themselves specify every destination and all the towns that you would visit during the tour and cannot be changed once you have arrived in T-bit; therefore, be sure to detail all possible destinations as well as the route before you decide your trip. It usually takes 3 working days for the T-bit Travel Permit to be issued. It can take 5 to 7 days if your particular tour requires the Military Permit and PSB permit.

What documents do I need to visit T-bit?

To visit T-bit you should have a valid passport, a Chinese visa and a T-bit Travel Permit, also called a T-bit Entry Permit or T-bit Visa. The T-bit Travel Permit is obtained from the Tibet Tourism Bureau.

Been riding a lot in T-bit between 1993 - 2005 and we never bothered about any special travel permits and never encountered problems with police, hotels, guest houses. We drove up from Chengdu and Lanzhou during the trips.
The situation has changed over the last years but know a group of Chinese motorcyclists just went recently with big bikes (BMW / KTM) and two back-up cars (25 people total). Two of my riding mates with KTM's met them around Lanzhou area a few weeks back.

You better check into the bike re-import in case you plan to leave China with your bike, just last week was told a horror story by an Italian BMW owner in Beijing, he went all the way to Singapore from Beijing via Chengdu on a BMW GS1200 and had to go through a lot of trouble and $$$$$'s trying to bring his bike back into the motherland (bike was legally imported and licensed through the official China BMW importer a few years before in Beijing).

update, they still offer tours: http://www.edelweissbike.com/en/cont...ure-tibet.html

i also am trying to travel to the big T this coming summer although not on a bike well maybe I'll take any means possible.This is what my research has uncovered

You need a TTB permit (T i be Travel permit) to enter the big T this only allows you to purchase plane /train tickets and gets you on said plane/train.You can not get this permit by itself you have to book a tour with a company into the big T.If any one sells you just the TTB i would be wary.The TTB just gets you to Lahsa and surrounds.That's it.

If you want to go further you need a PSB permit and once again with a registered travel company but all foreigners need to be of the same nationality.Makes it hard.

In this present environment I think independent travel into the big T will be hard.

The people who you quoted posted along time ago even then one was running checkpoints would you like to do that now I certainly don't.

I have family working there( they work for the Govt tourism as a fact) and they said they can get me in but typically Chinese they said I just need my passport but I am not holding my hopes up on getting in.

Update: just been stuffed around again .Family member who worked at Ali on the checkpoint has retired.Funny his brother told us a week ago he is going to Lahsa for training in August i should go with him.

Man dealing with the Chinese especially my family is doing my head in.

Seems difficult this year. http://www.thelandofsnows.com/tibet-travel-update/

why is it cheaper for other nationalities than americans?

Kennon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kennon

why is it cheaper for other nationalities than americans?

Kennon

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Why is it more expensive to get a visa for US then for other countries?

Hope this answers your question!

1. Has anyone recently crossed into T-bit via motorcycle? Either Chinese or Foreigner?
2. What's the current state of affairs for crossing into T-bit overland as a foreign passport holder using public transportation (e.g. bus)?
3. Rules for riding in and over with a guide? Possible ways to get around this so you can do it independently?
4. What would be the process for Chinese Nationals to crossing on motorcycle? Curious...
5. What would the best/easiest routes be?
* Coming from Chengdu on the Sichuan-T-bit highway?
* Coming from Kunming via Deqen on the G214?
6. Provided we can sort some of this out and take a crack at this ride - with respect to the types of roads this ride would include is 300 km/day feasible or would this be too ambitious [not looking to iron-butt each day]?

1.Do you mean a foreigner independently (not in a organized group)I don't know.I'll (my wife)will ask my cousin(check point Charlie)when we speak to him next.But he is on the on the other side of the Big T border.

The Chinese have no problems getting into and riding around the Big T.

2.Need a TTB and a PSB permit.Catch being to get these permits the company that you get them from should/must put you in a organized tour.Becareful of companies that say they can just get the permits for you and off you go.I have heard of people just getting a bus ticket with no permits and entering but that was in the past this year once again things have changed probably more so.

3.If your thinking of taking a organized tour and then separating or continuing on afterwards.They officially have to hold your permits.You do not get to keep them on you.

4.Just ride on in.

5.Don't know I'm probably/maybe coming from the other side.

6.Don't know maybe ask Franki.


One thing to remember in this present climate of Anti-foreigner and clamp down on illegal foreigners it is probably best not to be doing anything illegal in China.There are two sensitive regions in China and I live in one of them so you know what the other one is.I have been getting text messages from the govt lately promoting a strong China in the region.I have never got these before.I'm betting their sending these texts out to everyone in the big T too.

Hope this is some help for you.

Maybe you can take your dog with you :icon10:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/stray-do...529-1zfy5.html

I think we need a good news story at present.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chinabiker

Seems difficult this year. http://www.thelandofsnows.com/tibet-travel-update/

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Getting more difficult .http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18275735

Yes. Thanks for updates bigdamo, Chinabiker and TB-Racing!
I've been doing a bit of offline research with the potential riding mates and we've all come up dry on how to make this happen (for now) with the exception of one option: Official Guide, Permits and $6,000 USD

Since that option isn't happening any time soon, we're now planning an alternate route that will take us thru some very good sections of Yunnan and Sichuan. No need to close this thread, but for now - no longer pursuing.

Cheers!

Mine was abit cheaper.12000yuan.But abit of a mute point as I don't think there is a group of Aussie's sitting in Ali looking to travel to lahsa.:sad::sad:

I hear Sichuan is abit hot too.No pun intended.

As I say drinking the last of my Big t green barley beer.

no affiliation with the CJ shop or the trip, see email below Tibet Trip Announcement!

Dear Riders: The Tibet trip is scheduled to take place in August and will last 11 days. Here is the route for the journey that we are now working on for our participants: Chengdu to Tian Quan (190km) > Kang Ding (180km) > Li Tang (278km, camp in the open air) > Kang Mang (271km) > Zuo Gong (156km) > Ba Xu (170km) > Ran Wu (90km) > Bo Mi (127km) > Lin Zhi (171km) > Gong Bu Jiang Da (127km plus a round trip to Lamucuo of 80km) > La Sha (277km). There will be 11 stops for the whole trip. We will just have one day to stay in the camp at Li Tang. On the other days, we will rest at hotels. For the first night, you need to book the flight to Chengdu and arrive at our designated hotel. The second day, we set off from Chengdu to Tianguan. Rental fee for one bike is 30000rmb which includes food, gas, oil, insurance and driver's license. A passenger will be 15000rmb extra. When we return from Lasha to Shanghai, CJS will book the flight tickets for you. Please let us know as soon as possible if you want to join us! Regards! Jane cjs_shanghai@yahoo.com.cn CJ Sidecar, Beijing, Shanghai PRC cjsidecar.comchinasidecartours.com Tel:0086-21-6242-8981

Hope they change the travel restrictions for nationality make up of groups by August.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TB-Racing

no affiliation with the CJ shop or the trip, see email below Tibet Trip Announcement!

Dear Riders: The Tibet trip is scheduled to take place in August and will last 11 days. Here is the route for the journey that we are now working on for our participants: Chengdu to Tian Quan (190km) > Kang Ding (180km) > Li Tang (278km, camp in the open air) > Kang Mang (271km) > Zuo Gong (156km) > Ba Xu (170km) > Ran Wu (90km) > Bo Mi (127km) > Lin Zhi (171km) > Gong Bu Jiang Da (127km plus a round trip to Lamucuo of 80km) > La Sha (277km). There will be 11 stops for the whole trip. We will just have one day to stay in the camp at Li Tang. On the other days, we will rest at hotels. For the first night, you need to book the flight to Chengdu and arrive at our designated hotel. The second day, we set off from Chengdu to Tianguan. Rental fee for one bike is 30000rmb which includes food, gas, oil, insurance and driver's license. A passenger will be 15000rmb extra. When we return from Lasha to Shanghai, CJS will book the flight tickets for you. Please let us know as soon as possible if you want to join us! Regards! Jane cjs_shanghai@yahoo.com.cn CJ Sidecar, Beijing, Shanghai PRC cjsidecar.comchinasidecartours.com Tel:0086-21-6242-8981

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The Big T is now closed to all foreigners who knows when it will open up again.I would be very weary putting down cash for a tour this summer.

That's correct: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...-indefinitely/

hmmmm ... 2012 ... wasn't T-bet where the big ships were being stored? Maybe this is the reason why foreigners must be kept out?

I seem to recall something about this in a Hollywood movie ... must be true.

From the movie 2012 : In 2010, President Thomas Wilson and other international leaders begin a secret project to ensure humanity's survival. Approximately 400,000 people are chosen to board "arks" that are constructed at Cho Ming, T'bit in the Himalayas. At the same time as the PLA are gathering volunteers, a Buddhist monk named Nima is evacuated while his brother Tenzin joins the workers in the Ark project. Additional funding for the project is raised by selling tickets to the private sector for €1 billion per person. By 2011, humanity's valuable treasures are moved to the Alps under the guise of protecting them from terrorist attacks with the help of art expert and First Daughter Dr. Laura Wilson.

Attachment 7596
Attachment 7597
Attachment 7598

Is that ship China's answer to America's new stealth ship.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigdamo

I hear Sichuan is abit hot too.No pun intended.

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Just came back from northern Chengdu and south-western Gansu. Had no problems with police or anything even when riding into Xiahe only days after what happened in l-Ahs-a (and days before the lock-down in Xiahe). Don't know what the situation is right now but I guess you should be safe as long as you stay out of the T-Province itself...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MotoKai

Since that option isn't happening any time soon, we're now planning an alternate route that will take us thru some very good sections of Yunnan and Sichuan.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fahni

Just came back from northern Chengdu and south-western Gansu. Had no problems with police or anything ...

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The route we are working on now will take us from Hunan into Guizhou and Yunnan, then up thru Sichuan and potentially ending in Shanxi.

A bit of concern with the rainy season we may encounter. Is there anyone in these areas that can share insights/comments?
Fahni - What type(s) of weather did you experience?

Weather was generally fine but I intentionally went before the rainy season is supposed to start in mid-june. people told me that end of June, beginning of July is the best time to visit as there is ample rain (sic!) and thus the meadows are flushing.

I ran into thunderstorms three times, every time with hail mixed in, but all three times the strong rain lasted only between 15 and 60 minutes with light rain later on. Even though I can imagine road conditions getting very unpleasant very quickly with small rock and mud slides. I went from Minxian to Lixian in Gansu province, a region battered by storms in May (http://www.beijingshots.com/2012/05/...ansu-nw-china/) after a thunderstorm and light rain later on and it made going very slow. You cannot see how deep the potholes are when they are filled with mud and sometimes you have to cross long stretches of lightly flooded road. Probably ok when you are in a group, I was a little worried on the deserted stretches as I was riding alone.

The timing for visiting Yunnan at this time of the year is probably bad. However, Yunnan is in the midst of a multi-year drought. We may be lucky not to get rained on too much. Take a look of the following stat:
http://weather.news.sina.com.cn/news...524/75562.html

The rainfall in Lijiang 丽江 as of 5/23 is only 7% of the yearly average, which is extremely unusually low. Just hope it doesn't come down all at once during our trip.

Cheers!