Wonjan

Wonjan has new offering....called a Swordfish
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ke_250gyFU.jpg
The above is a similar offering, but with a Honda type engine.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...wordfishFU.jpg
The Wonjan models they refer to as their "big row" have a 150cc Suzuki engine.
That being the Swordfish and Tomahawk, both have the 13hp 150 OHC engines.

The top bike is being offered here through this B2B website…with the typical errors in specifications.




Both are pretty much shameless copy, it is a Honda XRE300, less the high tech 300cc engine.
http://espaciomotos.com/wp-content/honda-xre-300.jpg

Wonjan also has a GS600 advertised for 2013 (was removed for the website in 2012)
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...an/GS600JO.jpg

Suzuki GSR 600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XFGuSZ6n1L...1_1024x768.jpg

Wonjan is also claiming to have an EFI version of the GN250 and are offering it in a VOLTY.
Its odd…the Wonjan website almost seems like it has been hacked into? WJ is part of the Grand River Group and has a fairly professional website?



Any who, the Wonjan Volty and its blurred image has a retail price advertised at 18800 CYN, I have also seen it advertised for 17800 CYN, that is a healthy price for such an old design.



It is being advertised on this B2B website...as a Space Ranger?
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...onjanvolty.jpg

Its all come off as odd, I can only suggest that upper management rein in it subordinates and also address its channel marketing, it all really makes the Grand River Group look bad.


If they want to develop the Wonjan brand name separately from the Suzuki and Haojue brands they can but they really should clean up the approach it all looks amateurish and sloppy.


If they wish to utilize the B2B wholesale websites as partners they should consider separating products into categories, by classes and manage each separately that way. But they also have to ensure that when they use English that what they include actually makes sense to those that read it, it often comes off as frivolous and or silly. They really need content editors and people that really know something about the products.

They also dance all over intellectual property rights, they are not only copying designs they are using what is trademarks and without regard to the consequences, those are real consequences in the real international markets.

It is good that they did not choose to copy design of Italian motorcycles. Italians are extremely sensitive to the copying - it would be a lot of work for the court.

Nevertheless, it would be nice if all these models in bike shops, to dispel backwater on the C-moto market.

Intellectual rights are written into the constitution of the USA and are complex, an industrial design (the appearance) can have a patent and they are registered as such. The actual engine is functional and can also have patents and many do and some have several patents within a design.


The USA has its own systems and so do other countries the WIPO offers a common system that is shared/honored by many nations. http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/documents/pdf/hague.pdf


Commonly major manufactures will file rights of protection in all systems. Other countries also have their own registrations systems in place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industr...#United_States


Selling a product that is in violation of a patent in a protected market can be halted by court order and that could mean all the inventory in any retail shop cannot be legally sold. Then also all prior sales and proceeds from those are and can be considered as recoverable damages of the violation.


If China does not honor the rights defined in other nations, then recovery or halting of the sale cannot go beyond the boundaries of jurisdiction of the other nation that honors the patent rights. So then damages are limited to those within the jurisdiction were the violation occurred. A patent violation in the USA could bring about a court order to halt the sale and also could order the seizer of the asset of a distributor. Damages if awarded can be retroactive and can go back to the first sale of the first unit. The lawsuit could go back to the manufacturer, however it would not likely be considered with regard to other nations laws in the Chinese courts. However damages are and can be held indefinitely and prevent them or limit them in any ventures in those nations. To me it all looks self defeating if the object is exporting, not materially pertinent for domestic sales not directly anyway, but it makes all that are watching suspect and reluctant to get involved, honor and integrity are not just words on paper they are in reality a resulting perception of historical behavior.

Then the question arises - how much should be different a product that is similar (or identical at first glance) than the one whose design is patented, and still not be considered as copy. I think that this is the place for different interpretations.

Hey, it is all for the original manufacturer to decide, if they patented a design and then feel it is being violated they can present a case in court.


If all the alleged copies were being sold under one brand name then that single source would make an easy subject to identify and if not as they often are sold through many brand names not so easy.


But some can go into legal registries and count the models by the WMI of the source factory and see the models and sum up sales of them and then calculate damages. If a manufacturer feels a product violates a specific patent then they can research the sales and distribution of that violation. If you consider that and then also the disregard of some manufacturers for federal regulations and disclosures as to who makes it and who is the legal entity selling it, you see they are not making it easy to identify them. It also in part explains why there are no formal parts lists and servicing documents as those could be used as material evidence. In reality such documents would likely make it obvious or not comparing it to an original in question, different suppliers outside the original supply chain that are also making parts that are in some cases right protected by another as well.


In many joint ventures the designs were shared with restrictions/defined limits, often restricted to selling only domestically and only under one brand name. But then many designs showed up in other factories and still others until it became impossible to address, in china that is, not impossible in other countries though.


What is driving the Chinese is that of advancement and patents cannot prevent advancements of a society, but they I think are in many ways out of control.


Imagine Suzuki filling a case in the UK for a design violation by Skyteam that copied their Van Van, what then happens in china, they have allot invested there. They likely could but likely would not as the collectable damages likely would not cover the legal bills, but that is a matter of sales volume and recoverable capital value.


What Suzuki could do is contract a JV to build the real deal and sell it themselves in the UK, that is what I would like to see and the model selling for less. Its in this industry that the Japanese are being violated most, which makes you wonder if they are involved in some instances covertly, being paid not to do anything? I think in result they simply limit what they share with their Chinese partners, that they likely do not trust.


They will never get any major partners for distribution, they will never get any entity that has a legal staff or risk manager they will only get little operations that come and go like the wind.


Here is an article on DealerNews.com it offers some insight into the process of mechanical and ornamental patents.


http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews...e-design-plans

Do you like the patent on the Yahmha twin design? I do....
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/wp-co.../101607top.jpg
http://www.dealernews.com/sites/deal...onceptTwin.jpg

This image is a vision on Oberdan Bezzi, it is not patent protected but may have a copyright, not it specifically but likely the owner has a copyright on his body of work. He only request that in any reuse that his name is included, but cannot be for resale, but he also states he designs these for manufactures that can take the design if they wish, the ones he offers publicly. The brand and icon most certainly is trademark protected. But can be used for informational references and not resale.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JNgH2kk8pu...50-concept.jpg

That is Oberdans vision of the Yamaha V-Twin 250cc engine, it is an engine that is commonly copied in china and so is the V-Star 250 Yamaha sells, the engine is not likely still under a 14 year patent time limit for a mechanical device, but the actual designs as an ornamental patents do not have a limit, they do it is for 14 years but they can be restated consecutively. Mechanical patents cannot be reinstated they expire in 14 years time. I believe but I could be wrong.



The Chinese laws are not pertinent in the USA, if nothing prevent the copying there it does not mean they can legitimately sell copies that violate intellectual rights here, they cannot.

It is all very complex....

Very complex, to put it mildly.

I am convinced that any serious Chinese motorcycle factory had more benefit from listening to customers. Example: This Space Ranger. OK, Wonjan find that this kind of bike could earn some money, and they have resources to produce it. With a little will and modest resources people from the factory could find out what the customers do not like on the Suzuki TU model. Maybe people want flat seat, humpbacked tank with side protectors, differently shaped muffler, a little longer wheelbase, crash pads... You name it. Less fuss - more gain.

There is not any reason for Suzuki to bring back the Volty, it has been replaced with the new model line that has the new designs and a new engine.
OLD
http://www.chicdesign.co.jp/products...l_cl/vol_l.jpg
The old designs are all based off the GN250 and then the new all off the revised engine.

Wonjan could bring it back and offer it to Suzuki for distribution in Europe and America, they should and could offer it to all Suzuki dealers.

http://www.chicdesign.co.jp/gallery/...no/vo_a2_l.jpg

Chic Design

My favorites...
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/8247a5a6.jpg

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/vol001_0.jpg

actually this is the bike I want.....
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...009tr250-5.jpg

China's patent strategy worrying foreign firms


Copying the patents of others seems to be the next stage?

Not every country uses the same system and they really should, the patent should follow the products into all markets.

Seriously if a patent is filed in China and already exists in other countries under another name, it's then a stolen patent! If the patent in another country is to be registered in China then it should come with a contract for that purchase of that patent from the owner of it.

Seems like all the new Chinese patents could be nothing more then Chinese firms filing patents that they take out of the patent registries of other countries?

Daydreaming again? :riding:

I really enjoy what the Japanese do to bikes....

this is the modern version...its a ST250/TU250 it has the new engine Jinan Qinqqi developed production of in china.
http://www.chicdesign.co.jp/products..._c_back2_l.jpg

another version of the ST250
http://cesse.la.coocan.jp/images/st250/st250_01.jpg

another new version of the Grass Tracker, the difference is the new engine.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...uzuki/BB01.jpg
You can be sure Suzuki has design patents on these and their JV partners in china have access but what that allows them to do as for international marketing would be contractual, but what if a partner violates a contract terms. Seeking damages would be very mcuh like cutting of your nose to spite your face.

The old Volty is not unappealing, its actually a cool looking bike.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ki/volty_m.jpg

Scrambler
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ambler_250.jpg

so awesome....
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...uki/chrome.jpg

They are all based off this standard model, basically just modified versions of the base GN250.
http://www.classicmotorcycles.org.uk..._rightside.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

another version of the ST250
http://cesse.la.coocan.jp/images/st250/st250_01.jpg

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What!? I didn't hear!

Who said Moto Guzzi Nuovo Falcone Militare!? :mwink:

Bottom line: it's not too difficult to come up with enough interesting bike at a fair price, that is not "plain vanilla" .

I can buy a TU250 and also order parts from Japan, but total cost would be too much.
どうもありがとうございました。

All the parts on the above bike are after market custom parts.

A distributor could order the standard from China and then contract the manufacturing of the custom parts as well from China.

The parts should be for both the TU250 that Suzuki sells and also for the GN250 which would be the lowered cost alternative. If a Volty could be purchased as well then it would be sold as stock and custom parts for it offered as well.

There are lots of opportunities, the easiest way to do it is to only order standards from china and then contract a supplier to manufacture the custom parts, but only for model that are very common and currently being sold or were sold once in volume.

The approach that Ryca is taking on the S40 is ideal and could be expanded to these 250 models.
http://www.rycamotors.com/

Perhaps the essence of what I mean lost in translation, so I'll write it like this: there is no need to Wonjan or any Chinese manufacturer to copy any existing motorcycle, because with a little effort they can offer original product, without pricey custom parts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJH

I can buy a TU250 and also order parts from Japan...

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MJH様： お疲れ様

can I have a Grass Tracker please!

I found 460 of them and they are too much money and on the wrong side of the world.