Given the information you have so far, which bike do you prefer?
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Given the information you have so far, which bike do you prefer?
Jialing JH600. Hehe.:riding:
BJ600GS, only because I'm used to riding inline 4s and love the smoothness compared to twins. Will be interesting to see how well these bikes last over time. :popcorn:
I was starting to come to the conclusion that twins and triples are for street bikes, singles are for dirt bikes and fours are for compact cars. But if it shifts, no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by quarterchicken
If it has to just be on the way it looks CF MOTO for sure....
But I agree it will be interesting to see how well they look and go in a few years time
Just read the russian review: http://www.zr.ru/content/articles/46..._cfmoto_650nk/ provided by our fellow bikers! So basically if understand well this russian guy, the overall is pretty good:
Pros:
Maniable
Flexible on normal road
Engine powerful
Passing gear ok when lower than 8Krpm
Good look but the fake carbon on the black version which looks cheap.
Cons:
Tires are bad, they don't warm-up: consequenly the bike doesn't stuck to the road: he reommend to change them.
Breaks are inconsistents: in some situation they work well, in some others the break pressure is not enough... (not sure if I understood well that part though)
Passing gear while ate 8Krpm is not swift.
The bike doesn't suit well to a bad road (with potholes for instance)
Conclusion: It's far from reaching its japanese cousin (Kawa er6-n) level of quality but could be comparable to a Taiwanese / Korean / Chzech bike.
Just a quick view point worth considering here in China. Yesterday I was at a beach (YangShaShan) (nearby Ningbo where I live). I'd been invited along with several riding friends (Chinese guys). Tow if us rode there while the others came in cars with family in tow. Later a couple of us went to visit a mutual Chinese acquaintance/friend who is a "motorcycle mechanic". He had a dirty little motorcycle workshop in a semi industrial area which mainly dealt with cheap repairs and the flogging off of the odd grey import motorcycles (usually fairly rough units acquired cheap as). Well turns out he's moved and has a new store/workshop in a major part of town outside the Ningbo city centre. Not only has the guy moved he also has scored a Benelli dealers license, and the shop was covered with grand Benelli signs and what not. He had 4 new Benelli's on the shop floor, still under wrappers. Certainly the shop is ten steps ahead of what he had before. His methods though haven't changed, he's still fairly rough as guts. I'd just go with saying I'd not want to be having my bike serviced there. Another friend currently an unemployed car engine mechanic (which doesn't necessarily translate to a good motorcycle mechanic as I have been told) was also looking to set up a shop as a Benelli store. What this tells me is that Qijiang/Benelli will take on anyone as a distributor whereas CFMoto are more inclined to be dealing with real bricks and mortar dealers who are quite established. OK there might be some exceptions, but from my observations that's how it appears.
Not that that means the CFMoto dealers will be that much better, but from my casual observations, Benelli is just trying to saturate the market, only time will tell about the service/warranty aspect.
For this reason I'm with CFMoto, and the fact that I've owned a couple and dealt with service/warranty issues where CFMoto have been fast to get it done. Also for CFMoto's newer models starting from the Jetmax, 650NK and 650TR, shops that want to service said models have to send their mechanics for CFMoto training and are awarded a "certified service agent" certificate.
With so many new Benelli shops springing up, I'm sure it won't be long before servicing issues come to hand.
YMMV.
The things that I like about the CFMoto are that the design is a little older, the company spends a huge amount of money on R&D, and the bike is a twin which I personally prefer, even though it isn't as powerful as the Benelli that really shouldn't be an issue on Chinese roads. Tires and brakes aren't as good, but they can be upgraded fairly easily.
The Benelli I like because it is an Italian brand with history, that has a powerful engine and good tires and brakes. I don't like the fact that it's not a triple and that it's just been released to the market and is bound to have some niggles.
Right now I prefer the CFMoto marginally, but this might change as more information emerges.
2 topic starter:
Why didn't offered a third option in a poll: "Neither of the two"? :naughty:
That's easy... don't vote!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorge
But with that option you'll get a more realistic picture.
But why Zorge? You need to compare to similarly priced, similar displacement bikes for the same use. The TR650 is more expensive and is a tourer, the JH600 is a single cylinder dual sport bike, so not for the same purpose. If you added ER6 or CBF600 then it wouldn't make sense as these bikes are too expensive and not available in China.
To be fair though, I asked a few of my Chinese mechanic friends and they all said 'neither', both bikes have problems.
^That may be the case, though sometimes in China one has to consider that asking a local for their opinion needs to be tempered with is their answer; based on fact, interpretation thereof, some blog, forum or the Chinese miniblog version of soap operas, or, just an inherent bias - which often is valid, though sometimes it's not. Many manufacturers have issues, even some of the luxury brands. Is it really fair, to be trying to compare these new to the mass market mid displacement motorcycles, when the companies in all fairness have little to no experience making them. It's a huge leap to be going from 110-125-150cc basic motorcycles and scooters that are copied from old designs, to much more modern technologies... If one takes stock about it all, just a year or two back, there were many (and I'll be the first to put my hand up here) that were complaining about what little if any choices and offerings were available except to buy an overpriced import (whether that be legit or grey market) and the costs and plating issues inherently associated with said choices. Yet here we are where several local manufacturers have upped the anti and fulfilled those wishes, or some international brands have imported other offerings (albeit expensive and perhaps not well suited to the local telent pool or conditions) yet still people are not satisfied. While the bikes on offer are a welcome addition, I realise they still leave room for improvement, but... With a little more time and input the manufacturers will get there. It's often the early adopters who help push the improvement changes needed. The major issue is getting our voices heard at the right level to have those changes effected. That is more of a problem... just my kuais worth... YMMV.
Doc, I get what you are saying and I completely agree. I was just saying what mechanics I know said, not that I actually agreed with them! My bike for example is considered utter garbage by all Chinese riders. Weird how with some work, mechanical sympathy and knowledge I have been able to do 30,000 kms on it in three years. Sure I wouldn't buy it again, but it hasn't exploded, although it's a much different bike that left the factory.
To me at least both manufacturers deserve a chance, all I ever wanted was a plated 2nd hand CBF500, but I can't get that, so these bikes are an affordable option. Also being that my budget is tight and I like a bike to ride and am not into lifestyle choices or wearing badges.
To CFMoto tick the right boxes so far for few reasons....
1. They spend a lot of money on R&D (according to you)
2. They honor their warranty, and go above and beyond (according to you too)
3. I know a few people who work for them
4. It's a twin cylinder
I don't care if the bike is perfect or not, all I want is a bike that can be fixed it it goes wrong.
These are my thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
First of all, I do not like to buy something that has only recently appeared on the market. I do not want to be some kind of beta tester of any products and to test it for my money, which in the case of both bikes, not exactly small. Call this objective assessment.
The other thing is totally subjective: Modern nakeds are "not my cup of tea" - I do not like their riding position; gives me a blister on my belly. :icon10: I'd rather show some interest for V-Strom-ish CFMOTO with this NK's twin.
Regardless of what I wrote, I am really glad that that I can see more and more Chinese bikes with displacement exceeding half a liter.
Although they are not a masterpiece, these two bikes are really something new in the Chinese motorcycle industry, at least step or two forward from what we've seen so far - real motorcycles in the full sense of the word.
I voted with my wallet tonight, bought the CFMoto. did a ton of research on both of them. talked with mechanics, rode both, talked with current owners etc. I spent the last 4 years on inline 4's (ZX6 track bikes in Austin TX), so I initially leaned towards the Benelli, but there are just too many quirks about it...the problems people have are not consistent, which is a big warning sign. the CF shortfalls were more confined, thus easier to prepare for as an owner.
I'm a mechanic myself, so actually looking forward to digging into either bike if duty calls... but hoping for a few thousand k's of tool-less mountain rides in the next few months...
Great to hear, so looking forward to a more in-depth review from a mechanic - would be a real plus. Paste up your link in this thread once you have had time to get to grips with your new ride and your first impressions. Oh, and congratulations... let us know when you take delivery, and how you get on with plating the bike etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch7276
Fletch if you have the time, please could start you own thread on this bike as bikerdoc says in-depth thoughts from a mechanic would be great.
Good man Fletch! Let us know how you get on with the new baby!
So Fletch, what's the price of the license plate in Beijing (downtown one)?
Topmanda,
most shops can get a Jing A (inside 4th ring road) plate for 20k. price seemed pretty consistent among dealers. I live outside the 4th ring road, so I bought a Jing B plate for 1500. i don't plan to ride into town, will mainly stay in the outlying areas for rides (Mentougou, Miyun etc).
will do. I will be traveling outside China for the next month, but will start some teardowns when i get back. i've already got 3-4 part swaps i have my eye on...Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888