I have been a fan of the YBR250, but there is a new kid on the block.
Sometimes called the "Sword King killer" (i.e., the YBR-killer), the new Suzuki GW 250 is more commonly nick-named the "Baby B". The GW250 adopts the appearance, and some of the engineering ideas, of its much larger brother, the Suzuki B-King.
Recently, a riding buddy and I went out and purchased a pair of GW250s. Initially, we were going to use the same dealer, but ended up using two different dealers - both quite large and reputable in Beijing. We each have our faves.
We put our orders in, back in July, and then waited. The price was 23,800 (plus all the extras, such as tax, plates, insurance, etc). This is such a high demand item, there is zero room for negotiations, and I really mean zero. I've bought several bikes from this particular dealer, and it always provides a little sweetness, but not this time. My buddy was in the same boat - zero discount, or goodies. Well, not entirely true - I got a "free" cover and disc lock, although combined they were worth maybe 200 rmb (applied towards a decent disc lock).
My buddy's bike appeared at the end of August - he fluked out and received a red one! Apparently, one of only two reds in these early shipments. The Suzuki website, and the dealers, say that red is not produced, so it is not an available color. Well, for whatever reason, he received a red one. He wasn't complaining, as the red is very nice (and, at least for now, extremely rare). I suspect that it will be an export color, and these two reds somehow got mixed into the batch at the factory doors.
About a week, or so, later, mine appeared. I had initially ordered grey, but switched to black at the last moment. It is very shiny, but will undoubtedly be very difficult to keep clean. The grey is also very nice, but I changed my mind when a large group of the bikes appeared at my dealer. I also had the opportunity to pick a lucky VIN number from this large shipment, as I was one of the first early-morning customers to pick up a bike when the shipment arrived. Amazing how living in China affects one's perception of numbers.
I'll get more pics and more details up later, but for now, these will have to suffice.
Twenty-seven GW 250 boxes lined up along the street (and some remaining on a truck, until room was made available) at Qili Motors (Beijing):
My riding buddy is a highly experienced motorcycle rider, and has owned many different brands and sizes. Most recently, he was riding a Triumph Bonny (unplated) prior to finally realizing he needs a legal bike. So far, he has put about 1,000 kms (break-in) on his GW250, and he has nothing but good things to say. I've only put a few on mine, so far, but I can say that this bike is very, very nice. I recently dropped it off to have it cleaned, paint-protected, waxed, polished, etc ... and then got on my favorite farkled-out YBR250 (freshly cleaned) for my return journey. I've always enjoyed the YBR, thinking it was one of the best all-around bikes for in/out/around Beijing ... but during that return trip, I was wondering if I have a new favorite child.
More to come.
09-18-2012, 02:01 AM
bikerdoc
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Hey LJH nice new looking ride. Always great getting a new ride straight out of the box. So how many rides does this purchase make? You must have a much bigger garage than me. I can't fit any more, yet have a new bike arriving in the next several days and I have no idea where the hell I am going to put it. I can't for the life of me put my beloved Suzuki Swift outside the garage and relegate it to the elements... just so I can replace it with yet another bike. Oh well I will work it out I'm sure, just have to get creative.
I have seen a GW250 in the flesh at the local Suzuki dealer who is also my local CFMoto dealer too, and thought that looks so much like a little B-King. I'd assume that is where the design dept got the styling cues. I'll be intersted to see your long term report and any RR in the near future. One question though, is what did your good buddy do with the Triumph bonny?
09-18-2012, 09:36 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
So how many rides does this purchase make? You must have a much bigger garage than me.
How many? Never enough! But into the double digits now. A trick I learned concerning space & raised eyebrows from significant others:
1) One bike getting detailed;
2) One bike getting serviced;
3) One bike getting farkled;
4) One bike lent to a friend; and
5) Balance in garage (within view of significant other).
Sounds complicated, but probably much easier than managing several girlfriends. I am only hypothesizing about that, of course! No way I would ever know. :naughty:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
One question though, is what did your good buddy do with the Triumph bonny?
Not sure, but probably selling it. I'll ask him.
I'll get a brief YBR/GW comparison up tomorrow, if I've time.
At this point, as most of you already know, the GW is a water-cooled, EFI 2 cylinder, with about 20% more horsepower, rear disc, 6-speed tranny, full instrument cluster, and a little lower seat height and profile.
The GW is very smooth and quiet, and definitely has more than enough get up and go (yeah, yeah, I know ... break-in period ... but I can never resist seeing how easy it is to remove weight from the front end).
09-18-2012, 11:45 AM
soberpete
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Nice move LJH!
ZMC888 and I have been eager to know what the GW250 is like and exactly how much it would cost.
GW250 23,800rmb
6-speed
250cc twin
Front and rear disc
Water cooled
YBR 250
23,600rmb
5-speed
250cc single
Front disc, rear drum
Air cooled
A very slight difference in the price for a much more exciting 250 road bike. There are only a few small advantages that the Yamaha may have over the Suzuki
1: The YBR should be more economic, being much lighter and with less power.
2: Suzuki's reputation for quality isn't quite the same as Yamaha's or Honda's but who knows; they might have done a better job with the GW250 than they did with the GSX(R) models.
09-18-2012, 12:04 PM
Motofan
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Nice pixs.
Congratulations on your new family member.
09-18-2012, 12:17 PM
Nuhaus
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Was riding a certain CB400 the other day and met up with a Chinese rider on one of these. I was very impressed at how easily he took off from the stoplight and got up to about 120. Keeping him in sight was a bit of a challenge, the GW250 is no slouch. My reluctance at getting one is just that the frame is too damn small for me. The CB400 is sure as hell not comfy either, but at least the seat height is there. Still, for that price it's not a bad deal for a Japanese 250 in China.
Please keep in mind that I have very limited time in the GW saddle, but here is what my initial thoughts are:
1) On paper, the GW appears more powerful. And from my little runs, in the city, it seems so ... but that could also be a function of the gearing in the 6-speed range. When you look at the power/weight ratio, the YBR is superior.
2) The GW is way, way heavier ... and it shows, and feels. It is definitely more stable on the street, and cornering feels a bit better, but the lighter YBR is going to perhaps serve you better in out-of-city conditions. I am not sure if the slightly wider stock tires on the GW contribute much to the feeling.
3) You sit higher on the YBR, and also in a slightly more upright position. My personal preference. But I gotta say that the GW does feel really nice. And it is so much smoother than the YBR (probably largely a function of the two cylinders).
4) The YBR is slightly more narrow (an advantage in Beijing traffic).
5) The YBR has a far larger fuel tank capacity, and a lesser crankcase oil capacity.
6) The YBR has a better ground clearance.
7) The GW is stretched out a little (wheelbase) and also sits lower (and heavier). This definitely contributes to a very stable, steady feel on the street.
8) Not noted above, the GW has adjustable clip on bars, which is very nice. I never really cared for the YBR bars.
9) The GW has a great console, with gear indicator, various trip meters, digital/analogue readouts, clock, and other goodies (like a setting to turn on a shift indicator, telling you when to shift for optimal economy - but I doubt I'd ever use it).
10) The GW's compression ratio is much higher than the YBR - could be a concern when acquiring fuel in small Chinese villages. The GW will require champagne, whereas the YBR is happy with beer.
I really like the GW ... a lot ... BUT if I was heading out on a China trip, I'd take the YBR. Longer range, proven reliability, familiarity among Yamaha dealers (which are everywhere), lighter, and more ground clearance.
Hitting the streets of Beijing, and the good roads in the mountains around Beijing, I'd definitely prefer the feel of the GW.
As for appearance, that is a personal thing. The YBR maintains some of the old school look, whereas the Baby B GW is more contemporary.
More later ... I need to get out and ride this thing!
Oh, by the way, I found out that the red is indeed the export color ... for the UK. The UK is getting black and red ... no grey. Brazil is getting black and blue, no red or grey. It seems grey is the unique China color. Well, we'll see how long this lasts.
09-19-2012, 12:55 AM
ZMC888
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
I've gotta say I love the Suzuki, its 6 gears and low center of gravity means I can imagine it can rail some mountain road corners, although not mad about the overly swoopy fenders. The Suzuki's weight is a real concern, obviously caused by the water-cooling and twin exhausts. Are there any obvious ways to reduce the weight such as pulling off a heavy center stand?
The figures say that the YBR has a better power-to-weight ratio, but I suspect in the real world plus rider plus more torque, plus six gears, plus lower center of gravity the Suzuki will be the quicker bike especially when the Yamaha gets hot and you are in the hills.
09-19-2012, 01:21 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuhaus
My reluctance at getting one is just that the frame is too damn small for me.
You're 100% correct with that one. Alas, we're in China and the market understandably caters to the Chinese physique. I've noticed the same on almost all bikes here. Therefore, in accordance with adapting to one's environment ... my growth is now horizontal, rather than vertical.
09-19-2012, 02:55 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I can imagine it can rail some mountain road corners
According to my riding buddy, the GW loves mountains twisties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Are there any obvious ways to reduce the weight such as pulling off a heavy center stand?
Interestingly, the center stand is standard in China, but an optional accessory on the export bikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
I suspect in the real world plus rider plus more torque, plus six gears, plus lower center of gravity the Suzuki will be the quicker bike
You're probably right on the money with that ... add a rider (and perhaps passenger), and the bike's relative "naked heaviness" becomes less of an issue.
I haven't had the chance to do anything decent in reviewing this bike, but here's some snippets from a ride the red GW went on, a couple of weeks ago. We hit a bit of "road repair" so the GW owner got a chance to see what the bike was like in "real China" conditions (and also christen the Baby B with dirt). Naturally, I was very interested in his impressions (given that my Baby was still in the womb), and he kept telling me "Luv it - it is great!"
09-19-2012, 04:13 AM
ZMC888
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Oh yeah, what tires?
09-19-2012, 06:09 AM
Zorge
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Which one pulls better / is more "elastic" at low and medium revs?
09-27-2012, 11:47 PM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Little update:
My apologies for the interlude in completing this review - the bike has been "in limbo" while it was waiting for plates. I had a junker with an A plate that I scrapped, and the "demolition yard" was slow, slow, slow in getting the paperwork in order.
Anyways, finally got the new plates on (yesterday), so I'll continue on with the review over the coming days.
As a side note, for those inquiring minds in Beijing, the number of foreign-registrations in Beijing has fallen off a cliff. I registered a Regal Raptor in late June of this year with a new A plate. My GW received a new A plate yesterday. There are only six numbers between the Regal Raptor, and the GW (plates numbers are issued sequentially). This means that in 3 months, there have been ONLY six new A plates issued to foreigners (it is easy to tell, because foreign registrations start with the number 47).
Now, a friend of mine (another idiot, like me, who just can't get enough) is responsible for two of those registrations, so that leaves four, in three months. They say there are >100,000 foreigners living in Beijing. I guess everyone is registering their bike in their Chinese girlfriend's name?
I'll also try to get Mr. Red-GW (whom several MCM members know well) to join MCM and contribute his insights to the review.
My plating agent, who rode the GW to the Traffic Management Bureau, etc, during the plating process came back with a huge smile on his face, raving about how he totally loves this bike. Unknown to him, I had already put a GPS tracker on the bike ... yup, I was watching as he was having a "fun, circuitous ride." I think he even went to his girlfriend's house and gave her a little ride around. Hahaha.
I must say that even though you're correct in saying the YBR is probably a better china-tourer, this GW is way more tempting to me. In fact it currently sits in no.2 on my 'next bike' list. (no.1 requires convincing someone to sell to me, you know who you are!)
One good thing about the GW250 that hasn't been mentioned here yet is that taobao is already full of aftermarket parts for it. Crash bars, racks, side racks, cases, better lights, etc... Loads of choice. I like this as it's still hard to find any add-ons for my qingqi, years into production.
I've a few questions if you don't mind:
- Have you worked out how much mileage you get out of a tank? Can you get 300+ km?
- How do you like those IRC tires? I'm using the YBR250 tires these days and am not super impressed, they're just ok.
- How does the suspension handle bumps? The reason i've been riding dual sport the whole time in china is potholes and shit; what happens on the GW if you don't slow down for speed bumps?
- Those bars look fairly cluttered, is there any space there to mount a phone/gps?
Anyway, congrats again sir!
10-01-2012, 05:05 PM
ZMC888
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
These days I wonder, would it be better to have a Haojue tank and engine side covers to convince any ultra-nationalist China meathead that in fact it is a Chinese bike and not in any way Japanese, to save a punch-up or fire- bombing? Although I think people that badly educated only assume that Toyota and Honda are Japanese. Suzuki, Mazda, Yamaha and Lexus probably confuse them, tell them 'it's Korean, mate! Put down that rock!'
In my city they should smash down their apartment blocks, because all that cement, that's all from a Japanese joint-venture. :lol8:
10-01-2012, 11:55 PM
Nuhaus
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
These days I wonder, would it be better to have a Haojue tank and engine side covers to convince any ultra-nationalist China meathead that in fact it is a Chinese bike and not in any way Japanese, to save a punch-up or fire- bombing?
On September 18th I was riding a CB400 around Shanghai and had dinner at a sushi restaurant completely oblivious to any demonstrations. I saw them on TV and read about them (including the 2 foreigners who were attacked by a mental patient) but I really think any fears of an anti Japanese uprising have passed. I think the most you would need to worry about is those who are envious of your nice new ride. :riding:
10-02-2012, 03:05 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
One good thing about the GW250 that hasn't been mentioned here yet is that taobao is already full of aftermarket parts for it. Crash bars, racks, side racks, cases, better lights, etc... Loads of choice. I like this as it's still hard to find any add-ons for my qingqi, years into production.
Actually, that was one of the things that pushed me towards this bike. Unfortunately, I have been having bad luck with these parts. More later, but I've already sent back two crash bars & a carrier (all were top shelf, expensive items, off Taobao) because they were crap. Just got back from a little ride and am going to attempt to put a new set of bars on it - we'll see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
Have you worked out how much mileage you get out of a tank? Can you get 300+ km?
Nothing scientific, yet, but it seems that >300kms will not be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
How do you like those IRC tires? I'm using the YBR250 tires these days and am not super impressed, they're just ok.
Same with the IRCs ... they are ok, but they do not give any "wow" factor. They might be a little soft. as I've already picked up a couple of screws (fortunately, none went all the way through).
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
How does the suspension handle bumps? The reason i've been riding dual sport the whole time in china is potholes and shit; what happens on the GW if you don't slow down for speed bumps?
Suspensions is good, soft when needed; firm when needed. But I'm a big guy, and this is a comparatively little bike, so I slow down for the speed bumps. Also, the riding position isn't really conducive to standing on the pegs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
Those bars look fairly cluttered, is there any space there to mount a phone/gps?
Very observant - the bars are indeed busy, and odd-shaped clip-ons. There are RAM mounts that attach to bolt fittings which I will try in the future.
This is becoming a wildly popular bike. More than 100 have sold in Beijing within the past couple of months, and there are now weekly GW-club get-togethers (dealer sponsored). It also attracts a lot of attention which means every Zhang, Zhou and Cao feel it is perfectly ok to hop on my bike to try it out whenever it is parked outside. I'm a friendly guy, but that just pisses me off. I've begun asking "hey buddy, where's your girlfriend? Mind if I hop on her to try her out?" Grrrr.
Yeah, I think the anti-JP nonsense has subsided somewhat ... that was scary stuff ... especially in your town, Felix.
Seriously, I promise ... more to come ... life just gets in the way.
10-02-2012, 12:27 PM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Here's a thread on the October 1st GW party in Beijing ... Mr Red in attendance. I was on a HOG event, else I would've also gone.
They met early, bought the same hi-viz, did a photo-shoot and had a three hour guanxi dinner avec baijiu and many lung busters. I never go on this kind of ride- out, can't remember quite why!?
10-03-2012, 07:40 AM
TB-Racing
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
They met early, bought the same hi-viz, did a photo-shoot and had a three hour guanxi dinner avec baijiu and many lung busters. I never go on this kind of ride- out, can't remember quite why!?
sounds like HOG = Harley Owners Group China........
10-03-2012, 09:46 AM
euphonius
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
In fairness, I don't see any baijiu on the tables, but, yes, plenty of the noxious weed being consumed. Blue-sky days are so rare in Beijing these days, it's hard to understand why guys would voluntarily set their own heads on fire and assault their lungs with toxins. Whatever.
Full disclosure: Yes, I did have three or four beers at TB-Racing's awesome BBQ yesterday, but it was over the course of four hours, and I only consumed the Ducati cake in the final 90 minutes before riding home...
cheers
10-03-2012, 02:04 PM
ZMC888
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
In my experience, not just with motorcycle clubs, but also with Chinese bicycle clubs, being the same or similar to the rest is important. A long meal with alcohol and cigarettes and much guanxi being gained is highly important. Bikes and riding take a massive second place to all but the very hardcore few.
10-03-2012, 08:12 PM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
We're moving a little off-topic, folks, but here's my hat in the ring ...
I'm totally supportive of these clubs, groups, and get-togethers. In my experience, I've met several really amazing & interesting people whom I would have never otherwise met. Recreational motorcycling cuts through that social strata crap quite nicely. It is a convenient way for people to socialize with at least one common interest. This is no different from alumni associations, golf clubs, sailing clubs, music clubs, bridge clubs, or whatever other type of club one joins. There will always be the odd-ball idiot in whatever group association (including motorcycling), but my experience in Beijing (and other past resident locations) is that these idiots are few & far between, versus the dozens & dozens of great folks I've met.
I'm all for activities which promote recreational events that change the face of motorcycling in China. Not all of us are peasants hauling our pigs to market, or purse snatchers, or supporters of the stolen/illegal bike trade. Some of us are just ordinary family people who like to get together with others, now and then, who share a common interest - riding a motorcycle.
Yup, HOG can be a little off-the-wall sometimes, but I've not come across any other motorcycling association, club or group which even remotely promotes intelligent, fun and safe riding to the scale that HOG does. It is a very well organized group, with lots of activities, albeit still in its infancy in China. Yes, the pirate costumes are kinda silly (ok ... very silly), but you ain't seen nuttin' till you get involved in the sailing community - you're a complete nobody unless you're wearing Sperry top-siders (with an appropriate sailor's knot) and at least one HH emblem prominently displayed.
Humans are social beings and, IMHO, it is a lot more fun to be belting out the B.S. with motorcycling buddies over protracted lunches, even at a Starbucks, than isolating oneself in Chinese traffic.
I guess even MCM is a social group - I've met several really neat people through it, both online and offline.
OK ... back to the GW ...
I mentioned earlier that I thought the tires might be a bit on the soft side, until I started looking at my other bikes - several had little punctures, which I've now attributed to all of the rubbish strewn around my neighborhood streets during the current subway construction.
During a ride yesterday, I paid attention to the GW's cornering versus the YBR's (which I had ridden just an hour earlier). The GW definitely feels to corner better, on pavement, than my YBR250 ... and I do think that it is because of the heavier weight, with an apparent lower center of gravity, and the slightly beefier tires. The GW simply inspires more confidence. I felt I could attack curves, rather than just ride around them.
Pics coming once I get my camera back (borrowed by a motorcycling friend).
10-05-2012, 09:53 AM
soberpete
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
... it is because of the heavier weight, with an apparent lower center of gravity, and the slightly beefier tires. The GW simply inspires more confidence. I felt I could attack curves, rather than just ride around them.
Sounds nice LJH. I Don't regret getting the YBR, however, if I had held off until now then I would definitely get the Suzuki.
10-06-2012, 05:05 AM
Lao Jia Hou
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by soberpete
Sounds nice LJH. I Don't regret getting the YBR, however, if I had held off until now then I would definitely get the Suzuki.
Hey Pete
I think the YBR250 is a great bike, and so too the GW250. The two bikes are actually quite different, in my opinion, even though people (myself included) tend to lump them together. In some ways, it is like saying the JH600 and Benelli 600 should be lumped together (both 600cc), but they are obviously different bikes. I think what happened was the YBR250 was the unchallenged King of the 250cc class in China, and then the GW250 came along.
The YBR certainly gives me more confidence outside the city streets, on broken, rough roads. It is lighter, better ground clearance, slightly better riding position, and very well-known (repairable) in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. The GW seems to perform better on paved roads that are in good condition. The GW is a great bike for Beijing, and surrounding mountains, which is what most of my riding looks like.
I have several bikes, and whenever I need to do something without any worries, I reach for the YBR250's keys. Only once has the YBR250 let me down (my fault with a dead battery), but it bump started on the first try and I was good to go.
Cheers
10-06-2012, 11:35 AM
soberpete
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
Hey Pete
I think the YBR250 is a great bike, and so too the GW250. The two bikes are actually quite different, in my opinion, even though people (myself included) tend to lump them together. In some ways, it is like saying the JH600 and Benelli 600 should be lumped together (both 600cc), but they are obviously different bikes. I think what happened was the YBR250 was the unchallenged King of the 250cc class in China, and then the GW250 came along.
The YBR certainly gives me more confidence outside the city streets, on broken, rough roads. It is lighter, better ground clearance, slightly better riding position, and very well-known (repairable) in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. The GW seems to perform better on paved roads that are in good condition. The GW is a great bike for Beijing, and surrounding mountains, which is what most of my riding looks like.
I have several bikes, and whenever I need to do something without any worries, I reach for the YBR250's keys. Only once has the YBR250 let me down (my fault with a dead battery), but it bump started on the first try and I was good to go.
Cheers
Good to know. I think I made the right choice, getting the YBR for it's more practical benefits, but the fun factor of a twin makes me wish I had the Suzuki.
By the time I have enough money (it takes a while when you have a wife and baby), hopefully, there may be some kind of a 400 or 600 twin on the market. I don't know if I want a 4 cylinder bike; they sound a bit scary. I don't want to poop myself while I go fast.
10-06-2012, 04:30 PM
Kennon
2 Attachment(s)
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
honda are making a CBR500RR/CB500 soon a parralel twin with double the bhp of the single cylinder CBR250 so its a step between the 250 and 600cc supersport bike Attachment 8854Attachment 8855
10-07-2012, 02:41 AM
soberpete
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennon
honda are making a CBR500RR/CB500 soon a parralel twin with double the bhp of the single cylinder CBR250 so its a step between the 250 and 600cc supersport bike Attachment 8854Attachment 8855
:popcorn: That is exactly what I want... and it's a Honda ^^.
Only one pessimistic remark though; legal Honda bikes are really hard to find in China :sad:. I doubt it will be available here legally.
10-07-2012, 10:25 AM
Kennon
Re: Suzuki GW250 impressions
it is a shame that the honda will probably not be available it looks like a nice bike hopefully i will see it at the NEC motorbike live show this november. going back on topic of the Suzuki are there any performance modifications for the bike yet?