Hi... Newbie checking in

Hi guys,

Just joined and trying to get my head around some of the brands/manufacturers/models on the Chinese moto scene - no easy task!

Bit of background... First bike was a Honda Hornet that I rode home from the dealership with a fresh MOT yet it was chucking petrol all over the engine, exhaust and me! Hated that bike. Second was a Yamaha Fazer with a 'mileage discrepancy' that I took the dealer to court over. Got pretty disillusioned with buying bikes due to the incompetence and dishonesty of (most) of the bike dealers in my part of the UK so currently bikeless for the past couple of years. Bigger bikes too expensive here now (my brother-in-law got his Bandit new in '09 for £4,000. Dealer now sells them for £6500) and running costs not worth it for me any more, but I have been toying with the idea of a small capacity city runaround for fun.

Started investigating the Chinese bikes and visited a couple of dealers - one a joke, but the other seemed pretty reputable. Pretty tempted to go for a bike in the next few weeks but dilemma over what make? (Being a bit taller, I like the supermoto style)...

Pulse Adrenaline - quite fancied this. Am I right in thinking this is made by Pioneer (or is it Qingqi?) and is the same as the Sinnis Apache and Superbyke RMR? If so, why does the Sinnis seem to get better reviews... is it because they have an office in the UK which markets them better? Presumably all from the same factory and just different branding?

Lexmoto - where does this fit in... any relation to the above?

Likewise AJR?

HMC Lightning - liked this one most of all when I looked at it a fortnight ago. 125, watercooled, the most expensive but great 'fit' for me at 6'3" and 200lbs. Is this new for 2012 as never heard of HMC before? Not sure who the manufacturer is but it looks like a bike on the Zongshen website.

I'm soooo confused by all the choices, what brands have the better reputations, what brands have better spares availability etc. Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere - I've tried searching but can't find it... but is there a list somewhere of what Chinese manufacturers make what UK branded imports? Any opinions welcome as it all helps me decide on what bike to go for. I'd like to buy within the next month.

Thanks !!!

That Lighting is a Zongshen, you can find lots about it on the internet.

If you want a Dual Sport then the best option is the Honda CRF250L £3950 OTR

I am not going to write that all that are involved in Zingbikes are amateurs, because they are obvious new to the game.

The people behind JOHNBANKS are not fecking around are they, they are clear and concise about what they are selling and who makes it, no smoke and mirrors, no bulshite re-branded divert and deflect flood the market with low cost, low quality, ten copies of basically the same products that are copies of other products going on there.

Jianshe 6B / 6A (YBR clone) from learner legal also a good option. AJS had that engine in one of their bike since '09 , reviews isn't that bad. No mater whose the maker -- AFC-50 is a MUST for chinese bike in UK!!!

Japanzzz, hello and welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place .... to be even more confused about Chinese motorcycles. :icon10:

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

I'm soooo confused by all the choices...

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It is strange that this comes from a man who lives in a country from where are "few" motorcycles factories: Vincent, Norton, Tandon, BSA, Brough Superior, Sunbeam, Hesketh, Norton-Villiers, Corgi, Ariel, Matchless, Clyno, DMW, Cotton, AJS, Excelsior, Hesketh, Greeves, Martinsyde, Velocette… I am convinced that the list is not final, so you tell us who should be confused?

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shopping around for a fun 125

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With your background, I think you'll be bored to death with the 125 cc motorcycle.

Thanks for the Honda CRF250L recommendation MJH but, as always it comes down to money. I don't doubt that it's the best option, but then at twice the price of the Chinese bikes I'd certainly hope so. I have given the Honda serious consideration already since reading a review of it a couple of months ago in the bike magazines, but for almost £4k for a 250 it's not worth it to me. I was about to say I'd stetch to £5400 for a BMW G650GS but just checked their website and they're now up to nearly £6400! Yeah, I'm sure John Banks know what they're about, but then the same could be argued for any main dealer selling Honda bikes - the Chinese have a LONG way to go before they can compete with that.

Zorge, you know far more British manufacturers than I do, but (and I might well be wrong), most of these ones you mention ceased producing bikes donkey's years ago. Vast majority of bikes in the UK now are the big 4 Japs, Triumph (can't believe you ommitted them!), a bit of Italian and some German thrown in for good measure. I know a 125 isn't exactly in Ducati Pannigale territory but as far as I'm concerned it's just as fast and fun from point A to B on my commute - squeezing through traffic jams. Maybe in a year when I've moved house and job I'll go for something bigger, but at present it's down to cost and the 125's what I want.

I'm assuming you guys must have a Chinese moto to be on here so spill the beans... would I love it, or are Chinese bikes going to give me headaches?

Dear Japanzzz,

Welcome to MCM. Use the advanced search tool (not just the basic search window) and you'll find a very active and enthusiastic Pulse Adrenaline community there in blighty. That's the direction I'd be looking. Let us know how you get on.

cheers

£2,500.00 for a CBF125 OTR
http://www.schmidt-fahrschule.de/tl_...F125%20(3).JPG

That’s a Chinese manufactured model, it does not matters what country it is made in, what matters is the quality of the build and the support behind it as well as resale value.

another option is going through Barrus, they support Hyosung that offers the RT125D for $2,599.00 OTR

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

Zorge, you know far more British manufacturers than I do, but (and I might well be wrong), most of these ones you mention ceased producing bikes donkey's years ago.

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I blame AMAL for that. :icon10:

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

I'm assuming you guys must have a Chinese moto to be on here so spill the beans... would I love it, or are Chinese bikes going to give me headaches?

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Actually - no.

Every respectable Chinese motorcycle manufacturer with his bike gives a bag of Chinese herbal therapy and a set of needles for acupuncture with a detailed instruction manual included on the DVD. Therefore, not only that you headache-free, but at the same time, you solve problems with sciatica, rheumatism, high blood pressure, hemorrhoids, impotence ...

Jokes aside. IMO, if you're a weekend-grease-monkey, you should not have any problems with the maintenance and repair of a simple 125-250 cc Chinese motorcycle.

Mm Mmm Mmmmm... I'm in love!!! Just went to the Chinese bike dealer in the town where I work and he's got a lot of AJP bikes from Portugal in stock. In terms of Chinese bikes, he recommended the Pulse Adrenaline for a 125. HMC Lightening decent bike but he'd had quite a few issues with one of the ones that he had sold so was swaying towards the Adrenaline as not had any probs with the 15 he's sold this year. HOWEVER :) a couple of Shineray Enduro 250s in stock. TASTY!!!!!! I want one! This could be it. Guy quite happy to show me the bike, let me take it for a spin, nothing to hide. He rated it and wasn't pushy. Take it or leave it.

Being new to the Chinese bike scene, the impression I'm getting is that although the quality and brand name isn't quite up to Jap standards, they are decent bikes in their own right and well worth the money. The problems I might encounter usually seem to be pretty minor in nature, and most of the dealers seem pretty down to earth and working hard to build up their brands - something some of the larger dealerships of Jap bikes sometimes take for granted... with a corresponding lack of customer service. I think I'm going to buy one. Shineray Enduro 250 for the same price as the Honda CBF125 I considered - what one gains in engine size, fun factor, look etc, the other gains in terms of brand name, proven reliability, etc. Swings and roundabouts.

SHINERAY ENDURO 250 - Any opinions?

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

they are decent bikes in their own right and well worth the money.

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Statements like this are usually followed up 6-12 months later with "you get what you pay for". You sound mechanical enough to make a decent go of a Chinese moto and will probably do alright with the Shineray. Most people can't see through the constant upkeep and niggling issues. BTW, Shineray has offered about 63 different 250's over the last 5 years, a picture or link to the model you're referring to would help a lot.

Just curious, why not look for a decent second hand Japanese bike?

Cheers!
ChinaV

Hello mate, Welcome to MCM

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

SHINERAY ENDURO 250 - Any opinions?

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Which one did you saw: black with the green stickers and LC engine or one that looks like Yamaha Serow?

I think it's a Shineray XY250GY-2 like this bad boy on the Zingbikes site... http://www.zingbikes.com/acatalog/shinerayenduro.html

Black, green stickers and liquid cooled.l

ChinaV, you asked why not go for a second-hand Jap bike?... basically there's not much on offer where I live in Scotland. Much of what is being sold like the Suzuki DRZs at a couple of local dealers are around £3400-3500 for a 4.5-5 yr old machine. Much of what's been advertised privately at reasonable prices has been played around with, or there's something about the advert or the bikes that don't ring quite true for me. The attraction of the Shineray is it's new and hasn't been messed about with by someone else. Also cheap insurance and no MOT to worry about for 3 years.

Presumably Chinese manufacturer's bike are bought by the majority of Chinese people, many of whom can't stretch to a Jap make. And I can't believe they fall apart too quickly there.

The Shineray X2 cannot be registered in china. Its manufacturer primarily exports, nearly three quarters of its production is exported. You can buy one in china but it cannot be plated, unless they have a new version that has been approved in china.


The bike has a six-speed not a five speed.


It is odd that they can sell that bike under E3 in Europe and not sell them in China, in China it is an off road bike.


http://www.shineraymotor.com.cn/prod...sp?columnid=85

What is interesting is that Shineray is doing the same thing AJP is with old Honda engine designs.
This is the Xinyuan RFVC 400cc
http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/large/a11dbda1jw1dye59k9ohzj.jpg
AJP offers the 200cc and 250cc RFVC, from the 1980’s that is the era that engine had faulty heads that cracked, it is not hard to find verbiage on that on the net. AJP sells the RFVC engines with Delphi EFI to meet E3.


Hmm that would or could be a good partner for Xinyuan? AJP could source 400cc from Xinyuan.

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

I think it's a Shineray XY250GY-2 like this bad boy on the Zingbikes site... http://www.zingbikes.com/acatalog/shinerayenduro.html

Black, green stickers and liquid cooled.

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Engine is Honda NX 250 clone. There is a supermoto version too.

Ask Syanur http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/me...hp?6252-Syanur about the bike, he's riding one.

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

basically there's not much on offer where I live in Scotland.

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Oh, you are Scotsman! Now some things become clear... "It's been in the family for years." :lol8:

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

Much of what is being sold like the Suzuki DRZs at a couple of local dealers are around £3400-3500 for a 4.5-5 yr old machine. Much of what's been advertised privately at reasonable prices has been played around with, or there's something about the advert or the bikes that don't ring quite true for me. The attraction of the Shineray is it's new and hasn't been messed about with by someone else. Also cheap insurance and no MOT to worry about for 3 years

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If you have not firmly decided to buy enduro/supermoto bike, and 3500 quid is acceptable price, should you take into consideration new Suzuki GW 250.

hey japass
the shineray x2 is not a bad bike
i have 8500km on mine with no issues other than a fried voltage regulator
nice bike to ride and the engine is one of hondas better efforts faithfully copied by the wee gnomes at shineray
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7224/7...3e7e4e8025.jpg
2012-05-12_10-33-41_297 by johnnyfast, on Flickr

Hey Zhu, nice to hear from soneone who has one. The bike dealer near my work uses the Enduro one as his courtesy bike. I think it's got five & a half thousand miles of hard use and abuse on the clock from all manner of riders, but the bike shop owner reckons it's been rock-solid reliable (biased admittedly).

ChinaV, Zorge and MJH - you've all mentioned about looking for a Jap bike... Suzuki GW 250 Inazuma etc. Although the price of the Pulse Adrenaline, Shineray XY250GY etc is the thing that attracts me to them (obviously), I do value your opinions with regard to these bikes versus those from the land of the rising sun, particularly as my knowledge of Chinese bikes is extremely limited. So... for a well built, reliable machine, are any of these Chinese bikes contenders or are you subtlely (or otherwise) trying to point me in the direction of a Jap bike??? Be honest please :)

Zorge "Oh, you are Scotsman! Now some things become clear... "It's been in the family for years." " Nop, Aussie, but as I've been in Scotland since the age of 3, I've had plenty of time to pick up the bad habits! :)

MJH, you mention the Shineray is produced as an export item. I take it the locals in China aren't really into the 'Supermoto' styling for their day-to-day commuting bikes? What styles and makes of bike are normally seen being ridden by locals in China?

The X2 is does not meet emissions in China, so it is not able to get registration in china for road use. The company has been working on an EFI version to no avail.


Even as an Off-Road bike the X2 sells in china for around 17,000RMB and the main consumers are paying under 7,000RMB for transportation models, it is not difficult to see what those are they are reflected in the majority of offerings from the Chinese Motorcycle Industry, 50-150cc scooters, CUBs and versions of a CG/CB Honda.


That X2 is approved for sale in the USA, but nobody to date has any to sell, the bike has been on the list of EPA approved models since 2011. The emissions are not as strict here in the USA as in the EU, the model approved for sale here has a carburetor, which as it was submitted to the EPA would not pass the E3 criteria set by the EU commission. Considering that the EPA here has been finding that many of the applications submitted to them by Chinese manufacturers and their affiliates have falsified test results, the data may not be accurate?


Before you buy a Chinese model it is best to make sure it can be registered for street use. I do not know the process in Scotland but assume the dealer handles that and it is their ass if they register bikes for road use that are not legit. You said he only has one, hmmm that’s interesting so he is not too invested in them is he.


I am just suspicious that the bike is not actually legitimate to sell in the EU for street use, but at this point if you can get one and register it then it does not matter, in the worst case scenario they simply stop selling them and those that did sell them deal with the fallout. You could get a replacement CDI if you need one from china in that case or any other bit you might need down the road.


Just seems odd to me that the bike meets E3 and not approved in china, why is that?

The CRF250L is comparable to the Shineray X2, both have a DOHC 4 valve water cooled 249cc single.
The Honda has programmable fuel injection ,the Shineray has a carburetor. I believe that the Honda is 100% legitimate and suspect that the Shineray is not, the price difference reflects that. I believe that Shineray may be cheating the regulations and also keeping cost down in that, so the direct comparison falls short since the direct comparison requires the X2 to have EFI that is as reliable as the PGM-FI for the two to be compared legitimately.


Then what would the price differences be? If they were actually comparable. We all can see it coming that being when they actually are comparable, so will be the prices.


I like to assume that if a manufacturer submits an application to regulators’ that it is legitimate, But unfortunately that has been proven time and time again not to be the case, they actually lie and when they get caught they simply say the claims are not substantiated or that the action of the regulators’ is unprecedented and biased. They leave the market and their affiliates in the lurch and scoff at the fines that are noncollectable in China.


If you buy one the resale is not good on them, because the above matters. However the bikes are comparable, the Honda would likely be trouble free but the Shineray would also likely give only minor annoyances, but if you actually plan to ride it hard it would or could fare less well?

MJH thanks for your detailed reply. I've seen a lot of the 125-150cc bikes on various manufacturer's websites - like you say mainly scooters, Cub and CG/CB replicas. I presume that if these are the staple fayre of Chinese commuters then they must be fairly reliable.

In the UK, the Baotian BT49QT(?) scooter was the best selling scooter last year to the surprise of many, and small dealers are springing up all over the place. The main problem with Chinese bikes in the UK is in how they were sold until fairly recently... many were bought on Ebay and were delivered to the buyer's home in a crate with basic assembly instructions, or were sold through dealers who were amateurs and who didn't really know bikes. Things have moved on and it is rare that Chinese bikes are sold in crates on Ebay now as there's dedicated importers for most of the different brands. It's still far from perfect as plenty of the so called 'dealers' are garges selling cars that have decided to diversify into Chinese bikes, yet they have absolutely no background in bike sales and maintenance and assemble them quickly which leads to problems for the bike's owner. Things will change in time and these amateurs will be weeded out and dropped by the manufacturers as Chinese bikes become more mainstream. Taiwanese manufacturer SYM started selling scooters and bikes with a bit of a sketchy dealer network but now the quality of their bikes are being recognised and bigger dealers are taking on SYM franchises. My local Suzuki dealership in Edinburgh is excellent, and in the last year or two have started selling SYM bikes and also brands like Generic (Chinese I think). I would have no hesitation buying from them (unlike some other incompetent main Edinburgh dealers who deal solely in Jap bikes). Chinese bikes sold by proper bike dealers, assembled by bike mechanics who know what they're doing, front to rear nut and bolt checks - threadlock etc, will see these bikes providing much more reliable service to their owners than has perhaps been the case up until now.

I can't tell you too much about how these bikes meet Euro 3 emmissions other than as far as I am aware, new vehicles are independently tested to check they conform. Once certified, the bikes can be sold freely throughout Europe. There's load of different Chinese bikes now for sale in the UK/Europe. Regardless, I'm quite happy that I can buy the bike legitimately - the dealers near me provide them registered, taxed, and on-the-road all set to go. My local guy mainly stock AJP bikes from Portugal and also does HMC (Zongshen), Pulse (Qingqi I think), Lexmoto and Shineray. He only stocks one or two of each make/model due to him operating out of a small industrial unit so is limited in terms of space. Once one is sold, he can get another one in in a couple of days from the importer, build it up and put it on display,

UK publication MotorCycleMonthly magazine did a review last month of three 125 commuters - a Zontes and a Moto-Roma (Chinese), and the SYM Wolf (Taiwan). I can't remember what manufacturers the Zontes or Moto-Roma were from as these names are for the European market (though the magazinbe did say). The Zontes and the Moto-Roma came in at £1500 and the SYM at £2300. The Zontes won the group test through its build quality which the magazine reckoned was better than a Yamaha YBR125 and the fact that it cost £1000 less.

It's these types of reviews in the motorcycle press that are becoming more common and more positive that are turning me on to the idea of buying Chinese. I understand that Chinese bikes are becoming much more popular throughout Europe also, although as usual we in Britain will be amongst the last to adopt them as biking in the UK is so snobby... unlike most countries, bikes are 95% recreation here and 5% work-horses and as such, a lot of people can't see past their Fireblades, ZX10R's, GS1200's etc. Anything else will always be considered inferior. I've never followed the herd though, so am tempted to take a punt on that Shineray.

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Originally Posted by japanzzz

I can't remember what manufacturers the Zontes ...

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Zontes = From this http://www.tayomotor.com/ company
MOTO ROMA SK125 -I'm thinking the SK stands for "Sukida" which = this http://www.sukidacycle.com/ (SUKIDA/ HAOJIAN/ BENTENG/ KAIER... are from the SAME company.)
The Wolf sells in UK are built by SYM's factory in Xiamen (Amoy), Fujian, PRC.

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

Zontes = From this http://www.tayomotor.com/ company
MOTO ROMA SK125 -I'm thinking the SK stands for "Sukida" which = this http://www.sukidacycle.com/ (SUKIDA/ HAOJIAN/ BENTENG/ KAIER... are from the SAME company.)
The Wolf sells in UK are built by SYM's factory in Xiamen (Amoy), Fujian, PRC.

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SK is for SENKE

Report

Not a very good one though...

Brands mean nothing its the WMI's they need to count.

If you have a spare lifetime you could read the EU directives, UGH
http://ec.europa.eu/governance/impac...10_1152_en.pdf

japanzzz, run away... run for your life...

There is no turning back, when C-moto world suck you in.

You can still buy Chinese manufactured motorcycles on EBAY, in fact more now then ever before.
You can get the CFMOTO NK650 on Ebay in the UK, they sell them under the brand WK.

Here is an ebay store offering them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WK-650i-EFI-/221150737338?

4,045 GBP thats 6,500 USD,

I'll be amazed if anyone can shift one of these WKs in Britain at £4195 on the road. Any buyer would be taking a shot in the dark and instantly lose at least £2000 in depreciation as soon as it's rolled out the showroom. It's one thing taking a punt on a £1500 Chinese 125 but sales of the WKs will be non-existant. It'll be a brave dealer that's shelled out for one to put into stock - I reckon the importer's distributed them on a Sale or Return basis.

WK in the UK is like Keller in Argentina, Xinyaun and Chungfeng?

The WK site has the 650 for 4,199.00 inc.VAT?