Best gps for in China use

Sorry if this post is redundant, but after searching for awhile, I haven't found a clear answer.

What is the best gps system for using in China? I'm particularly interested in maps of the NW. After discovering that paper maps are all horribly inaccurate (at least in NE China) I decided I'm gonna invest in a GPS. I'm in America for the next 3 weeks, so I wanna try and buy a good one while I'm here. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or useful experience.

I read about people using cell phones, but I think in the end I wanna get a good water/dust/vibration proof unit that I can stick on the handlebars, and read in bright sunlight.

Thanks.

China is paranoid about map data, thus you will have issues buying a GPS in the states and getting the correct maps on it here. It can be done, but why bother...? GPS companies are more or less out of business now, they just don't know it yet. ¥1200 will get you one of these, a combination of Orux maps and Google maps and you're travelling in style.

Cheers!
ChinaV

G'Day,

Using a Garmin Zumo220 -Australian Version- and the Garmin map (card) with very good results.
My Garmin GPS has no offset compared to my mates Garmin Zumo660 -German Version- (he had his unit's offset corrected, his GPS was off by around 500m).

City Navigator China NT (microSD™/ SD™ card)
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=253&pID=30217

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

China is paranoid about map data, thus you will have issues buying a GPS in the states and getting the correct maps on it here. It can be done, but why bother...? GPS companies are more or less out of business now, they just don't know it yet. ¥1200 will get you one of these, a combination of Orux maps and Google maps and you're travelling in style.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Dear ChinaV,

Is this Lenovo phone user friendly? Or do you have to be an Orux jockey to use it? Here are today's prices in Taobao.

thanks!

Garmin $$$

Montana 600 = $450 +
Montana 650 = $500 +
Zumo 665 = $799
Zumo 660 = $649
Zumo 350 = $699

City Navigator China NT - English = $119.00 (No updates - you have to buy it every year)

None of the current motorcycle models from Garmin are listed as being compatible with City Navigator China NT. TB is having good luck with his Zumo 220, but there is no official support from Garmin when it comes to rugged motorcycle GPS's that run City Navigator China NT. I would hate to be like his buddy and blow $600 on a unit only to find it's half a kilometre off, or worse, unable to run the China maps. I know you can hack them to fix the issue, but should you have to for that kind of cash? I guess the other avenue you can explore is getting a refurbished Zumo for a couple hundred bucks and then giving it to a Chinese tech. They will usually hack them for a hundred quai including a new version of the City Navigator China NT. TIC :naughty:

Garmin is like Apple, elegant, robust, proprietary and expensive. As much as I love their hardware, their China policy and route planning PC program made me give up 2 years ago. Still use mine when I go to the states, but if you're spending that kind of cash, you can get a Samsung Galaxy SIII for $500 + $80 for a waterproof case and motorcycle mount. Easy route planning with Google Maps and/or Orux, bluetooth coms to your helmet for phone and music, plus handy translation apps, maintenance apps, fuel mileage apps etc.

In a nutshell...

The Garmin is really nice if you have the cash to blow and the patience to deal with fixing the offset and their less than intuitive route planning software. You get a great display and touch screen that works well with motorcycle gloves.

The Android device might lack a little bit in outdoor display & touch controls compared to the Garmin, but it's going to have a lot more mapping and other software options.

As far as the Lenovo phone, I was just showing you an example of a waterproof Android device, there are several others available as well. I've heard mixed reviews about "China centric" Android phones. Some say they have issues with google services, others claim they can't be fully changed to english. Rather than take the word of a Taobao seller, it would probably best to put your hands on one and test it out before buying.

Orux jockey.... Google jockey.... Garmin software jockey.... They're all going to require an afternoon of your time if you're going to get the most out of them. Just to give you an idea, my shitty China mobile number only has 2G data services and I'm still able to use Google maps all the time. Last weekend I rode 1200 kilometres running Google Maps the whole time at a pretty high zoom level. I only used 22 megabytes of data, which is nothing at todays prices in China.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Garmin $$$
I would hate to be like his buddy and blow $600 on a unit only to find it's half a kilometre off, or worse, unable to run the China maps. I know you can hack them to fix the issue, but should you have to for that kind of cash?

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G'Day,

The Garmin 660Zumo was corrected in Beijing by Garmin, no more offset afterwards and identical to my Garmin Zumo220, spot on in terms of navigation.
Apparently all the rebranded Garmin GPS Navigation systems used on BMW motorcycles need a correction to eliminate the GPS map offset (talking about parallel import Beemers here, not sure about the BMW bikes imported by BMW Motorrad into ML China).

We were puzzled about the Garmin offset issue, my "spot on" Garmin Zumo220 and City Navigator China NT card were both purchased in Australia (Australian Basemap) and my mates "400-500m offset" Garmin Zumo660 was purchased from Touratech in Germany (European Basemap) and his City Navigator China NT card was bought in the USA.... As mention above, Garmin Beijing corrected the offset issue and he is a happy bike rider ever since.....

Sidenote: comparing my Garmin Zumo220 with a top-shelf Great Wall SUV GPS (dashboard build-in GPS) shows my Garmin Zumo220 with City Navigator China NT is way more accurate going around Hainan Island (both road and off-road modes).

I have heard that "Carplan" is the most accurate for use in China.

Gra.

Thanks for all the info guys. Some interesting stuff to thing about. I figured it would be easier/cheaper to buy it in the US, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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China is paranoid about map data, thus you will have issues buying a GPS in the states and getting the correct maps on it here. It can be done, but why bother...? GPS companies are more or less out of business now, they just don't know it yet. ¥1200 will get you one of these, a combination of Orux maps and Google maps and you're travelling in style.

Cheers!
ChinaV

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if you're spending that kind of cash, you can get a Samsung Galaxy SIII for $500 + $80 for a waterproof case and motorcycle mount.

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This option is getting more tempting, especially since I am in need of a new phone. I'll have to look into it further.

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Using a Garmin Zumo220 -Australian Version- and the Garmin map (card) with very good results.
My Garmin GPS has no offset compared to my mates Garmin Zumo660 -German Version- (he had his unit's offset corrected, his GPS was off by around 500m).

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This is the one I was considering, the others are a bit much. I read some reviews that said its processing speed was really slow, but 600 bucks is too much for something that I will only use once in a while.

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Orux jockey.... Google jockey.... Garmin software jockey.... They're all going to require an afternoon of your time if you're going to get the most out of them. Just to give you an idea, my shitty China mobile number only has 2G data services and I'm still able to use Google maps all the time. Last weekend I rode 1200 kilometres running Google Maps the whole time at a pretty high zoom level. I only used 22 megabytes of data, which is nothing at todays prices in China.

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Is it possible to download the route to the phone and use it offline? Do you need a data connection to use the GPS on the phone, or is GPS a separate thing?

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Originally Posted by HarbinSteve

Is it possible to download the route to the phone and use it offline? Do you need a data connection to use the GPS on the phone, or is GPS a separate thing?

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You do not need a data connection to use the GPS. You can download data when you are on WiFi at home and then access that data when you are travelling. As I mentioned, the price of data in China is so cheap now you really don't have to worry too much. Data coverage in China is pretty amazing, but it never hurts to have the data pre-loaded in your phone just in case you're in an area with no signal. You will have to spend a few hours learning about storing the map data and which applications are best for your needs.

One more thing I don't get with Garmin... Why did Garmin previously port their software for pocket PC and selectively port their software for Android users in Australia. Obviously there is no technology barrier for running Garmin software with City Navigator China NT on Android. I don't know if it's greedy Garmin selling $100 electronic devices for $600, or just poor market insight on their behalf. At this day in age, why don't $600 Garmin devices have WiFi chips and cellular SIM card slots for realtime data on the move? Is it a conspiracy?

Cheers!
ChinaV

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Originally Posted by HarbinSteve

Thanks for all the info guys. Some interesting stuff to thing about. I figured it would be easier/cheaper to buy it in the US, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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Garmin Zumo220, so far had no problems with data & GPS coordinates processing speeds, knocking on wood...
I am considering the Garmin Zumo350LM -Australia Basemap- in the future but in no rush.

Harbinsteve was looking for maps in NW China.My google maps in my smart phone in Xinjiang was sketchy.My Garmin with City Navigator China NT card had the offset and I tried to fix it but couldn't( I'm no tech head that's for sure)I used the Garmin out in the country and my smart phone in the cities.

China might have good coverage for mobiles but in the countryside in Xinjiang they still have some ways to go.

I had GPS. GARMIN Maps. But now I just use GOOGLE MAPS on my phone and ask directions. It's a good excuse to chew some fat with the natives.

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Originally Posted by HarbinSteve

Sorry if this post is redundant, but after searching for awhile, I haven't found a clear answer.

What is the best gps system for using in China? I'm particularly interested in maps of the NW. After discovering that paper maps are all horribly inaccurate (at least in NE China) I decided I'm gonna invest in a GPS. I'm in America for the next 3 weeks, so I wanna try and buy a good one while I'm here. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or useful experience.

I read about people using cell phones, but I think in the end I wanna get a good water/dust/vibration proof unit that I can stick on the handlebars, and read in bright sunlight.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Jonsims

....ask directions. It's a good excuse to chew some fat with the natives....

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Mate, most of the people out there in the great China Outback don't know left from right and point you in the wrong direction due to "face" issues as they won't admit they don't know.....


SEASONS GREETINGS

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Originally Posted by TB-Racing

Mate, most of the people out there in the great China Outback don't know left from right and point you in the wrong direction due to "face" issues as they won't admit they don't know.....
SEASONS GREETINGS

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Bang on! Ask ten people for directions or <insert your question here> and you will get ten different answers, usually most will be contradictory. I've lost count the number of occasions where different individuals point in opposite and opposing directions... even road signage suffers the same fate in China at times... thanks but no thanks, I've used maps, asked for directions, followed road signs... thank gawd for GPS. At times GPS might not be 100% accurate and occasionally suffer some brain farts, but 99% of the time GPS has got me to where I want to go. Way more dependable than any other option especially in mainland China. Each to his/her own though... YMMV.

After a bunch of reading, I ended up going the smartphone route. I got an iPhone. I needed a new phone anyway, and it seemed like there was so much overlap between the smartphone and the GPS unit that buying both would have been a waste.

Can anybody recommend good GPS software for an iPhone?

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You do not need a data connection to use the GPS. You can download data when you are on WiFi at home and then access that data when you are travelling.

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What phone/software combo are you using? Also, I have just been using China Moble （中国移动）and doing the prepaid, but since I have a smartphone now I think I'll get a data package. What mobile service are you using?

Start by downloading Google Maps through iTunes. I have a couple of Chinese GPS apps, like AutoNavi, which is maybe $10, but have not really used them much. This will depend to a great degree on your level of Chinese.

Keep us posted.

cheers

Last time I checked, the Google Maps Navigation was activated in China mainland, it works without mods now. My suggestion is use WIFI to cache regions of offline data.

中国移动 is by far has best EDGE(GSM) coverage, compare to its 3G (TD-SCDMA standard, not compatible to 联通CDMA). For gprs usage, ask their customer services, its price normally 5kuai for 30mb 10kuai for 70mb per month.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Start by downloading Google Maps through iTunes. I have a couple of Chinese GPS apps, like AutoNavi, which is maybe $10, but have not really used them much. This will depend to a great degree on your level of Chinese.

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hi jeff, have you managed switching AutoNavi's user interface language, I tested and switched to English for its android version, it could be done.

I am always using nokia phone, the maps are accurate and never had any problems with the GPS here in Zhejiang. Might be a different case in rural areas...dunno.

How do you solve a problem with using GPS and not being able to go on highways (motorcycle ban)? Im sure those devices always show you the most convenient way and this must be on highway.

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Originally Posted by modron

How do you solve a problem with using GPS and not being able to go on highways (motorcycle ban)? Im sure those devices always show you the most convenient way and this must be on highway.

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Adjust your settings to "avoid tolls", and your GPS will steer you away from highways.

cheers

i never dig into options. thanks, i found it there hidden away.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Adjust your settings to "avoid tolls", and your GPS will steer you away from highways.
cheers

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I could write a thesis on this subject and have almost done so over the years at more shall I say GPS and smartphone specific websites and forums, so I won't regurgitate too much of what I have partly written elsewhere, under another pseudonym. Also I'm writing this quickly as I have done my dash on this subject over the years and was a mod on another content specific website, so enough already.

"Avoid tolls"
There is a downside to such a selection in mainland Ch!na, and that is depending on departure and destination when trying to navigate towards a destination (e.g. "where to" using the GPS to navigate from point A to point B), "avoiding tolls" will also provide routing that may deviate from the highway at different points where the map data has tolls on those portions of the highway that are affected. Meaning that sometimes the route calculated will divert of a main road or highway to avoid a toll etc. This is because there have been up until recent times, many tolls on provincial, district and city highways and roads, aside from and separate to the Expressways (Gao Su Gong Lu). Many of the tolls are no longer in existence or used, so it may depend on what GPS software one uses and how current the map is within that software. Some GPS software also allows other options in terms of how routes are calculated e.g. shorter route versus faster time to name just two options. Different devices and different GPS applications can make all the difference.

I have been using GarminXT for Windows based smartphone/PPC (3 x HTC's) for many years and have tried Route66, Tomtom, NaviGo and iGo in China for quite some time. I liked Mapking very much and still have it loaded on my HTC's but the maps haven't been updated for 4-5+ years. I offered to help the company that produces MapKing (MapAsia) several years ago with rendering up more accurate polygons, correct some co-ordinates and map "farts" and what not, but the company weren't that interested. Garmin via there Ch!nese partner Unistrong, have been particularly abrasive and in the early days, somewhat misleading in their offerings in the mainland Ch!na market. Safe to say, that GarminXT (no matter the platform) is not supported on smartphones as Unistrong only sell dedicated Garmin navigator units and maps to those units, and primarily those manufactured for the Ch!nese mainland market when referenced to it. It is absolutely possible to use the likes of GarminXT on smartphones and the days of offset maps is long gone... *winks* even in mainland China.

It's actually illegal to do any mapping of any kind in Ch!na without proper authorisation etc, and that even goes as far as saving waypoints and POI's or favourite places using a GPS, which might explain MapAsia's reluctance to work with a private individual on their MapKing mapping.

AFAIK Google maps, AutoNavi and a few others do not provide triangulation just by using satellites (which are free and don't rely on any data from a telephony company), instead they use aGPS which is assisted GPS using a data connection via a telephpony company (e.g. either Ch!na Mobile or Ch!na Unicom) and therefore one accumulates data charges, meaning to use the map to navigate and move about on can cost money. Google maps in the past also operated more like paper maps than a true interactive GPS. Even some of the aforementioned GPS software I have used can use a combination of the two methods e.g. Route66, where both data from a telephony company by pinging off of cellular site/towers and satellite data are used and combined to give better accuracy rather than triangulation relied on with pure satellite only GPS, though this method does no incur data charges.

GPRS and GPS are completely different standards, and should not be confused. The latter deals with satellite signals while the former, GPRS deals with packets of data.

I'm now playing with Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Android JB 4.1.2 and GXT (street p!lot). That's all I can say about that.

If it were me and I was a noob in Ch!na I'd simply look to buy one of the many dedicated GPS devices, as the prices dropped out the arse end long ago. Once upon a time there weren't many choices and those that were available in Ch!na were overpriced for what one got. Now though with all the copyright violations and so on, better devices with more options can be had for a quarter to a third the price of say, a Garmin Nuvi 200 (a basic as model which used to retail for >CNY2000 not that long ago).

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"Avoid tolls"

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There was an option for AutoNavi to avoid Highway/expressway/Motorway, but it has been absent since a while ago. I asked them once for the option back.

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Google maps, AutoNavi and others do not provide triangulation using satellites... instead they use aGPS which is assisted GPS using a data connection via a telephpony company (e.g. either Ch!na Mobile or Ch!na Unicom) and therefore one accumulates data charges, meaning to use the map to navigate and move about on can cost money. They also operate more like paper maps than a true interactive GPS. Even some of the aforementioned GPS software I have used can use a combination of the two methods e.g. Route66. Where both data from a telephony company by pinging off of cellular site/towers and satellite data are used and combined to give better accuracy rather than triangulation relied on with pure satellite only GPS, though this method does no incur data charges.
....
I'm now playing with Samsung Galaxy Note 2 and Android JB 4.1.2 and GXT. That's all I can say about that.

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aGPS phone doesn't rely on cell town for navigation.

Because GPS or assisted GPS can work alone without cell tower. aGPS can have fast fix if satatlies position detail acquire from celltower. The data size is just a few kilobyte. with no cell tower assist, the PHONE's GPS eventually will have a fix, only it takes longer.

AutoNavi has full POI data, you don't need cell tower data to search places. So a smartphone plus AutoNavi your phone is GPS navigation device. That's why I paid and own the app, in case I lose phone signal.

Some very valid points from bikerdoc and td_ref.

Avoid tolls is asking for trouble, as many regular G and S roads are wrongly identified as toll roads. Google Maps, and many other smartphone apps, operate the same as most off the shelf GPS units, they do not rely on data connections for position. Yes, they can use IP addresses and cell tower locations to provided location faster (aGPS), but the actual positioning is done via regular GPS. Some require full time data connections, some allow caching (storing) of data, and others do not need any data connection at all.

Bikerdoc, I followed an almost identical path as you, starting with Mapking, moving on to Garmin XT on pocket PC, and then to Android when I couldn't get decent map data for Garmin XT anymore. I'm surprised you're able to run XT on Android, if I recall, the only Garmin product on Android is a bundled app offered in Australia? How current is your map data for XT? I understand your reluctance with relying on a data connection, but these days, it's hard to find a spot in China that doesn't have service and the prices for data are super cheap.

The thread title is "Best gps for in China use" and I almost felt that HarbinSteve ended up choosing the worst possible option with an (expensive) iPhone, as Apple's new maps app is getting a lot of flack and Google Maps on the iPhone has always sucked. Fortunately, Google is back on iOS with an improved (I hope) maps version, td_ref has pointed out that AutoNavi is pretty damned good, and there are great options for weatherproofing the iPhone and mounting it to a moto. So in the end, HarbinSteve ends up with a sweet unit after all. :thumbsup:

I think everyone can make valid arguments as to why their Garmin/Android/iOS device is "the best", but in the end, what makes it the best is your ability to figure out how to customise where you want to go. I'm unable to fathom why anyone would mount a GPS and then blindly follow it. Sure, there are times when you need to get somewhere, and following a GPS is a fast easy way to do it, but I think most motorcyclists are looking for adventure and the road less traveled. For me, planning the route is half the fun, as I usually look for the most fucked up roads between points when choosing my routes. The concept behind a GPS is to get you from point A to B efficiently, they do not take into account the enjoyment factor of a motorcycle. Thus I find it absolutely critical to pre-plan routes using Google Maps (for roads) Google Earth (for goat trails) and then combining the route files for the best results. I actually think the route planning software is more important than the GPS unit itself, and this is my main frustration with Garmin. You can do it, but damn it's slow, painful, and far from intuitive.

There are 3 things a GPS should do for you.
#1 Help you get where you're going.
#2 Track where you have been.
#3 Allow you to explore the unknown.

If you're not getting that out of your unit, try changing software or spend some time digging into the features.

Cheers!
ChinaV

P.S. Can anyone tell me if the new version of Google Maps on the iPhone will let you follow a KML file? To try it, open Google Maps and type the following into the search box: http://www.contactdi.com/map/077.kml If it loads a route, Google Maps will have taken a giant step on iOS.

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

P.S. Can anyone tell me if the new version of Google Maps on the iPhone will let you follow a KML file? To try it, open Google Maps and type the following into the search box: http://www.contactdi.com/map/077.kml If it loads a route, Google Maps will have taken a giant step on iOS.

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Dear ChinaV,

i just tried it on an iPhone 4 running Google Maps under iOS 5.1.1. "No results." Maybe you need a newer iPhone (5) or iOS 6.x...

cheers

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Originally Posted by euphonius

Dear ChinaV,

i just tried it on an iPhone 4 running Google Maps under iOS 5.1.1. "No results." Maybe you need a newer iPhone (5) or iOS 6.x...

cheers

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Did you download Google Maps Version 1.0 ? https://itunes.apple.com/en/app/goog...585027354?mt=8 This is different than the crippled version Apple has been bundling with iOS devices and has only been available since Dec. 12, 2012.

Thanks for trying.

Cheers!
ChinaV

I did download Google Maps from the appstore back in mid-December; one reason I'd stayed with iOS 5.x was that I did not want to lose google maps in the mid-2012 Apple Maps fiasco. So today, I ran the link you sent and it took me into the appstore and said GMaps was "installed". However, it allowed me to click on the "installed" icon and it is reinstalling. So who knows, maybe I'll get a better version. I've done the same on an iPad, and it's installing now. I had not realized GMaps was available on that device, because it did not reveal itself in earlier appstore searches. So I can try your kml test on both devices with the GMaps version I'm currently installing on both.

UPDATE: I'm now running appstore Google Maps 1.0 on an iOS 6.01 iPad and an iOS 5.1.1 iPhone. Neither device understands/accepts the .kml URL that you provided. GMaps provides a "no results" window with an exclamation point inside a red diamond. Sigh.

ALSO: For the curious, though Google has yet to release an iPad version of Google Maps, the iPhone version can be installed on the iPad and will run. Weirdly, its "find my own location" fails badly on the iPad, and seems to be locating me about 700m away, at Shanghai Railway Station. Since the iPad is WIFI only, I'm guessing that its location services is honing in on the nearest IP address of my ISP (China Telecom), rather than the WIFI router in my apartment about 4m from my kitchen table. I take this to mean that these location services tools work better with cell towers (on GSM/GPRS or CDMA devices) than with WIFI points.

cheers

Thanks for trying the kml test euphonius, that's a major bummer. Sounds like Google hasn't done much enhancing of their app for iOS...very frustrating. That one simple issue has kept me from buying every version of the iPhone.

Cheers!
ChinaV

There's a new product on the market that I thought I'd share with fellow peeps here...
OKMap.

OkMap is not a GPS, but a free interactive software application which allows one to work on a computer screen with digital maps that one has either bought or scanned. OkMap can also import vector data from many common map formats and DEM data relevant to height information. Data collected by ones GPS can be downloaded on a computer, stored and displayed on the maps. They can also be used to create different types of statistics. By connecting a GPS to a laptop, one can plot a position on maps in real-time. If connected to the network you can constantly send your position to a remote computer, or receive the position of ones companions on your computer and display the related tracks on maps in real time.

License: Free
File Size: 5.25 MB
OS: WinXP, Windows 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7
System Requirements: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1
Download: ZdNet.com

Dear Bikerdoc,

Nice find, thanks for posting. Now, is there a Mac OS X equivalent?

Cheers!

I've been traveling around Taiwan and Egypt (a little cold for touring up in Dongbei this time of year) so its been awhile since I've done much with my bike, but now that spring is coming I have to start preparing my trip to xinjiang that didn't happen last year.

I ended up getting an iPhone (mostly because I needed a phone and didn't want to fork up more money and buy a GPS unit also). I'm not sure it was the best option, but between it, my paper map and my compass I should be alright. Touring in China on a 125cc is more about adventure than jus getting to the destination anyway, so in the end having the perfect GPS isn't a huge deal.

I think the iPhone and google maps system should do what I need it to. Now I guess its time for me to sit down and learn how to plan a route and download it to my phone.

Thanks for all of the information and opinions. I'm looking forward to putting it to use this summer.