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Hey guys, we've just arrived in China for a moto trip. Looking forward to covering the trip and sharing it with the forum and on social media. Can anyone please forward ideas on how to access FB, YouTube and the like in China? PM or reply if you could,thanks :confused1:
They go through some virtual private networks, basically you are just a remote client inside of china all they see is your mouse clicks on that side and keys strokes, the actual browser is remote. http://www.voanews.com/content/china...p/1565249.html
But they are cracking down….
Hey Jonvdh. Firstly welcome aboard the cRaZzy ship called Ch!na. Hope you adjust ok to the low temps here compared to the heat and temps of WA. Ne're mind, that will be the least of worries I suspect. Please do share your adventures here, as you will find (if you haven't already) that all the "western" social media sites are blocked and even with V p N's it can be a bit of a mouse game with the proverbial IT brigade attempting to sniff out and block any attempts to overcome the GFW. The government here has their own Ch!nese version of all the "western" social media offerings you have mentioned, but the powers that be seemingly monitor them pretty closely.
There are a few other ways to deal with prox-ies but that can be a David and Goliath gong-show too. You could also put together a thread on a site like the HUBB (Horizons Unlimited) or ADVrider and then link it here...
Just be careful and sensitive to certain terms and words used here and within sites located/used on servers inside Ch!na. In which case you might like use a symbol or what not to alternatively spell sensitive words that the GFW test trawlers might otherwise sniff out.
So for the sake of those of us stuck on this side of the iron curtain, this thread is worthless without (your) photos!
Looking forward to them...
Ok to translate Bikerdoc post. You need a V P N > If you haven't left OZ yet get one there it will be harder getting one in China.Be careful what you say in China certain words are sensitive ie the Big T and certain people all the sites you mentioned are blocked in China. No offence but do do your research before heading to countries you want to travel through/in.
I have been pleased with Strong VPN service (link removed) which now has an idiot proof installer and even lets you alter your VPN server to different locations for either best speed, or local services such as internet TV. Prices vary depending on the package, but a solid & SECURE connection is worth any price and often you will find your browser speeds improved especially when using ANY Google services. Best yet, it even works on you smartphone such as Android.
where are you in china? and where will you go?Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvdh
yep, a V p N would be an essential purchase requirement/decision, just do it before you get into China otherwise you might not be able to view even the link mentioned above... and Lain, you might like to consider editing your post just to change up the link a little... (which isn't working/accessible via Ch!na T3L3COM) just so the Ch!nese GFW bots don't hit on the link in this thread. Big brother does know what gets written about... which is why I make a conscious effort to amend my spelling with appropriate use of wild cards for sensitive key words. Just sayin
With the exception completely removing the link, altering its visible text will do nothing to alter your concept of "bots" , which follow the URL no matter how its linked. You could (and should) create a robots.txt file to disallow most bots such as Baidu which is actually an annoyance more than anything. Also there is code that can quickly be inserted into your site that would create a robots no-follow directive for all links made in the forums, which would be a useful way to increase your SEO.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
My companies are completely internet based and I operate 16 websites on 2 servers and this is something I do speak from experience about, 12 years now. trying to type in "code" such as "V p N" is useless. VPN services are legal in China for expats and even things like my satellite TV from the US is all good. Given the context of these forums, which is to promote & support Chinese exported products I can hardly see any reason for your slight paranoia. However, as I am the guest I will remove the link from my post.
I am not very sure how long you are here, does not matter.
Last year I planned a trip to Qinhhai Plateau, Thomas called me, hey love, what are you doing? I told him. My China Mobile phone was shut down 3 times during this conversation. This was not the first time something similar happened to me the last 7 years.
I have been living here for 2.5 years, and I expect to live here for the remainder of my life, unless the wife says otherwise. I do know that some regions of China have different restrictions at play, and as to be expected communications are..well, "managed" However I have already traveled extensively and have yet to have my phone disconnected. That being said, have not been to Tibet yet, where I would expect such activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by SabineHartmann
However, this might be due to the fact that its NOT a Chinese phone, (Google Nexus) I use VPN on the phone as well as all of my computers and when I have a WIFI spot, I often switch to my Vonage App that routes the calls over encrypted internet connections....allows me to call back to the US for FREE! (it won't work on a Chinese phone) I also use a VOIP at my home, calls are secured with my SSL router.
Maybe I am also just as paranoid, but being a techie I guess I'm just more prepared than most and don't notice these things....:confused1: , except for the people that appear behind me at KTV when I update my FB account with pics I just took, that never ceases to amaze me.
Whoa Lain, please stop with the blah blah. Mentioning things starting with V and T often unnecessarily can and will get our DNS blocked. The Chinese govt don't even use bots.
OK, so I am new to this site, but for goodness sake your assertions of being blocked are WAY over the top. I have been operating my own servers and more than 16 websites for over a decade and have intimate experience with how the censorship.firewall system works. You are 10 times more self censored than ANY of my Chinese friends who regularly use such words in their QQ and Weibo accounts INSIDE of China, which do not get removed, filtered or even have their accounts closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Furthermore, as stated having a "V" is NOT illegal for foreigners and its certainly NOT anything that advising another (non Chinese) person wishing to travel here to get would even be grounds for such things as having your sites IP not its DNS blocked. With all due respect, your seriously paranoid about how & why sites get blocked in China....and yes, they do use bots to scan the web because even the 30,000+ MPS people employed to scan the web cannot do it all manually. At worst the automated filters will result in a drop a connection due to a number of keywords that are packet sniffed, but this website hardly rises to the level of filtering that say the western news outlets do.
Do yourself a favor, read up here a bit before going off the deep end about getting blocked.. Blocked Info. There are now there are 644 million active websites on the Internet, of which less than 20,000 are blocked globally. Your chances of getting blocked for a few "key words" used in a completely harmless manner are less than like 0.00002%. Your more likely to win the Nobel prize & get struck by lightning on the same day than to get this site blocked for a few harmless comments.
Chastise me if you will, but really folks...I speak from experience and your seriously off the mark on this matter. IF its a serious issue, I am sure the moderator will remove/replace any such words with ones deemed acceptable. Nowhere I have I read anything about this in the forums very brief set of rules. As I mentioned in another post, this site actively PROMOTES Chinese commerce, it will not be censored because somebody talked about....oh, god forbid making a phone call from "that place" in China. :rolleyes1:
what's next? drum roll..... sales pitch trying to sell your service or forums....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain
Please just shut up. I asked nicely. I know you are 100% wrong but I'm not into a tech debate. All you need to know is that nobody wants those terms on this forum, so accept that, you won't win this argument.Quote:
OK, so I am new to this site, but for goodness sake your assertions of being blocked are WAY over the top. I have been operating my own servers and more than 16 websites for over a decade and have intimate experience with how the censorship.firewall system works. You are 10 times more self censored than ANY of my Chinese friends who regularly use such words in their QQ and Weibo accounts INSIDE of China, which do not get removed, filtered or even have their accounts closed.
Furthermore, as stated having a "V" is NOT illegal for foreigners and its certainly NOT anything that advising another (non Chinese) person wishing to travel here to get would even be grounds for such things as having your sites IP not its DNS blocked. With all due respect, your seriously paranoid about how & why sites get blocked in China....and yes, they do use bots to scan the web because even the 30,000+ MPS people employed to scan the web cannot do it all manually. At worst the automated filters will result in a drop a connection due to a number of keywords that are packet sniffed, but this website hardly rises to the level of filtering that say the western news outlets do.
Do yourself a favor, read up here a bit before going off the deep end about getting blocked.. Blocked Info. There are now there are 644 million active websites on the Internet, of which less than 20,000 are blocked globally. Your chances of getting blocked for a few "key words" used in a completely harmless manner are less than like 0.00002%. Your more likely to win the Nobel prize & get struck by lightning on the same day than to get this site blocked for a few harmless comments.
Chastise me if you will, but really folks...I speak from experience and your seriously off the mark on this matter. IF its a serious issue, I am sure the moderator will remove/replace any such words with ones deemed acceptable. Nowhere I have I read anything about this in the forums very brief set of rules. As I mentioned in another post, this site actively PROMOTES Chinese commerce, it will not be censored because somebody talked about....oh, god forbid making a phone call from "that place" in China. :rolleyes1:
Its not about winning any argument, just trying to educate you a bit...an effort I will no longer make as you have made it clear that its useless. While you at it, take a moment to edit your forums rules and tell members they must govern themselves according to Chinese Internet Censorship rules. Its one ting to be mindful of what is said pertaining sensitive topics, its another to be ignorant of reality and the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMC888
Whatever mate, if it satisfies your ego I will respect your request...but ignore any concept that you have a clue about this matter.
I'd educate you, but I'd rather watch TV.
Lain, you have been asked to be careful on this site. Please accept our wishes. We have been shut down more than 1 time. I dont care what was shut down, I/we want to have this site running.
This is not a site made for commerce, promote chinese industry...... we are foreigners and guests in this country. We are suspects and carefully watched. We even dare to ride to remote country parts. So, please join in our group and with this, join in our rules.
This matter has been addressed in a private chat, even though the site seems to fail in delivering my reply (blocked?)Quote:
Originally Posted by SabineHartmann
However to address your assertion of "rules" I cannot follow site "rules" that are unpublished. Furthermore the "T" word that you all so paranoid about is used more than 3 times by the sites creator CrazyCarl in his own opening post about why he made this site. So I hardly took this "advice" as serious, since I do know better. Furthermore the same word yields over 100 posts, but I appear to be the first to get berated for its use.
I do not wish to jeopardize the site and will as I have stated refrain form using the unknown bad words from an unpublished set of rules. Its all good. I understand your concerns and will respect them. I suggested that in order to prevent any similar incidents the forums moderator may wish to make use of a simple, and built in forums bad word filter...while normally reserved for actual bad words it would allow the site to block/filter/replace words that are of concern to the site from any new, and even prior post. I am actually attempting to help on this fact. Its all good, so let it rest now.
It is just a matter of conforming judiciously to what the majority here want. Yes, perhaps the dreaded unmentionable place starting with the letter "T" has been mentioned a fair few times on this site, and no less than by the sites creator "CrazyCarl" - but do keep in mind that at different times, these places were not so sensitive a topic(s), and it might just be at these less sensitive times, that these words have been frivolously pontificated for all and sundry. Well times do change.
I appreciate that from what I have read and what I know, that you likely know your IT stuff, and you are likely bang on the money in many respects, BUT there is no point to tempt fate my friend. And as to the insertion that satellite is legal for foreigners in mainland China, um nope it isn't. BUT it is tolerated for foreigners, much in the same way as many other aspects of life in China.
I don't want to debate anything, BUT I can tell you that my wife's (Chinese) father (ex-s3cr3t p0lice - now retired) could certainly lift the veil on what you think you know, for it is not as it seems. It is not about paranoia, more like due diligence. That's all.
Well, than as suggested the simple and most effective way to solve this matter is for the site admin to take at most, 2 minutes from his day and use the admin console to filter ANY words deemed unsuitable by the majority. Best part is that its FREE, requires no expertise and would filter all prior posts. I mean seriously is that so difficult? As I mentioned, I am offering up helpful advice for the sites....due diligence. Looks kind of like this below. Input once and forget it.
Attachment 10070
Oh, and just for the record...after reading the first 20 pages of the TIC (this is china) forum, I am more than perplexed by the nature of this thread. Virtually every hot political topic was hit upon, and even linked to sites I know are banned.
I have never been able to figure out why MCM is sensitive to certain words. However, it seems to be the practice of MCM members to "disquise" them, so I just step into line, like the little sheep I am.
I visit other websites in China, some quite popular (e.g,. The Beijinger), and T and V are both openly discussed. I also recall reading a recent article from the Global Times (government run news outlet) about some crackdown on VeePeNs (I think the crackdown lasted .... hmmmm ... a week?). Humorously, the advertising banner at the top of the Global Times webpage was for a V company. Here's a link.
I also lurk around Chinese MC websites and there are dozens of threads on T rides, and T experiences.
I also think that CC, the webmaster, is a pretty sharp tack who would know what is going on. I just consider the members' practice here as being no different from those places that say "jacket & tie required"
Anyways, it all begs the question ... I wonder if you can get a V in T? :icon10:
This is a motorcycling forum so why have political discussions on this site and tempt fate? OK so all those other sites 'Beijing Cream' etc have V ads, and discuss political stuff, but for them that's 'on topic' loads more users and walking the line are often told to remove certain sensitive things and often have to change their hosts even though they are mostly just translations of the most extreme Chinese political stories allowable. Sure mention T and X fully when we are talking about riding there, that's on topic. Unless we want to turn this into a 'Daves Esl Cafe', where losers bitch and argue crap off topic all day on a China theme and give the admin a bunch of hassle. Also certain IP addresses, different regions, different connection speeds all have different GFW protocols. You could easily get a site blocked from an internet cafe in Beijing, but perfectly viewable on a home PC in Shanghai. So why risk less visibility?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
^ditto to ZMC888's comments.
I just wanted to add that my wife (who's father was S3CR3T p0lice [retired] which is good otherwise his daughter and I would not be allowed to marry etc.) participates very actively on a range of micr0 - bl0gs in Ch!na. Even her father is a little bit of a critic over the govt and the C C C P, though he is still a member.
A lot of the topics are very sensitive, and I warn her, though she is not silly. She doesn't actively outright criticise the central govt et al. instead she links to others that might. My warnings are heeded, but as she points out, anything sensitive doesn't remain available for long (minutes to hours at most), as the chumps in the GFW castle make sure that anything that could bring about d!scord or d!sharmony, or otherwise is deemed sensitive is swiftly removed.
Emm Chinese nationals are allowed to enter freely the Big t and comment on it Emm how many foreigners made it into the big t last season.How many Chinese nationals commented negatively on the Big T.None that I know of.They certainly don't go around taking photo's of the people in charge for want of a better word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou
OK, lets all take a step back. My points were not to get into a political discussion, but to merely point out that this site is not a threat of any sort, and self censors even more than Chinese people do ON CHINESE WEBSITES, where "management" of content is viewed with an eagle eye. I also made note, several times of the apparent hypocritical nature of when to self censor..which apparently does not apply to the TIC section, where I read comments about everything across the political spectrum from, political scandals, to N. k0r3ah to the 1$land disputes..which are ALL pretty hot topics at the moment...but I digress.
I have stated, and will state it again. There is a built in word filter for this forum, SURELY at least 1 person has admin access to the forum and can easily solve this and any future issues related to key words by simply using it.If this is the problem that some believe that it is, than as mentioned to me...take some time to perform some "due diligence" and well, use it! Everyone will be protected, no accidentally forgetting to talk in tongues, no bashing the newb's for secret rules and even better a sense of safety for the site members who fear the consequences of open speech, even when its not derogatory. The tool is free, runs automatically..just set it and forget it.
My point was/is, albeit probably poorly articulated, I simply don't know how far discussing any sensitive topic is permitted/not permitted by the authorities. I've never given it much thought, aside from the appearance that many expat sites seem not to have any problems. Nevertheless, I've heard a rumor that one well-known expat site was recently chastised by the authorities for going too far, after several expat members became a bit too threatening.
However, as others note, it appears to be that MCM has a type of self-discipline which discourages outright political discussion. That is perfectly fine for me, whether it is allowed or disallowed, because I am completely disinterested in politics. My point was that MCM has an "unofficial rule" where one needs to "dress accordingly." It shouldn't be necessary to ban sensitive words. There might actually be legitimate uses for them (e.g., ride reports, travel permit status, viewing Ut2be videos, etc).
If one wants a motorcycle forum where there are many controversial topics that are widely open for discussion, one can visit "The Basement" in a well-known MC forum. Always good for an entertaining laugh, if you don't take anything seriously, and keep a chastity belt on your mom.
I really can't understand what it is with you. Let me try again.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain
- We all know there is a minimum danger using certain key words.
- We don't want to police or monitor the use those words, merely ask that those certain words not be used unnecessarily.
- We nearly all know the content of the Wikipedia entry on how the GFW works. Many of us are aware of, and have personally seen much higher levels of monitoring and control than that.
- Nobody likes a 'know-it-all' especially a noob, who seems desperate to disseminate knowledge to 'educate' others on things they already fricken know or is even wrong about. :rolleyes1:
Lain, there is another aspect you might like to bear in mind and that is there is a myriad of possibilities when it comes to personal circumstances and how those circumstances might and can dictate everything about ones life here inside Ch!na. I hadn't realised how much suppress!on!st activities can impact my life until I was outside Ch!na for 3 months last year. While I was abroad I viewed all the social m3dia websites you mentioned at one time of another, and I was taken aback at just seamless that access was. I have used V P Ns here over the years, my last worked for nearly the whole 12 months of my subscription, but then it stopped and never got it to work again.
I myself live in a government compound. That is a 48 Canadian designed (and Chinese butchered) villas, 24 of which are rented out directly by the government and up until very recent times had strict renting selection criteria that required substantial foreign financial investment in company setup (e.g. business investment of JV, WOFE/WFOE et al.) before a foreign representative of said company e.g. CEO, Managing Director, GM was allowed to rent one of the 24 villas. The other 24 villas, are for direct government use, mainly entertaining and temporary accommodation of visiting officials from the provincial and central governments. Following the great financial crisis [GFC] in which many foreigners left, the majority pulled out by their companies, were then replaced by localisation of those vacant positions.
The villa compound rental selection criteria was relaxed to encourage utilisation, as many villas became empty. Now rich (many arrogant IMHO) Chinese have snapped up many of the 24 villas, and spent ridiculous amounts of money redecorating these villas (read: redecorating costs of upwards of 1 million CNY/RMB) and entered into some long rental leases (5-10 years). The interesting thing is that only the foreigners (which also includes the few Taiwanese and Hong Kong-nese renting here) are allowed (read: tolerated) to have satell!te dishes/TV. Remember satell!te TV is illegal (it might come as a surprise to you), as is GPS; adding waypoints or retaining co-ordinates without specific approval of the relevant mapping section of the govt. dept. or carrying any type of mapp!ng activities.
In relation to satell!te dishes/TV, each year the responsible government here issues a notice to the compound management advising of the impending inspection to make sure no satellite TV's are in use. The compound management, carries out a pre-inspection before the official inspection to make sure that any viewable dishes from the driveways of said villas are out sight. Generally speaking all the dishes are already obscured by strategically placed shrubbery, bushes or trees. The official inspection is undertaken, all boxes are ticked and everyone goes about ones business again.
We are also provided with internet though it is basically a form of intranet, which is monitored perhaps to a lesser or greater degree than a ADSL direct from Ch!na t3l3com. I also work for a government/private hospital with government supplied intranet/internet, and I can tell you Lain that many websites that I can usually access at home I at times cannot access in my office at varying times. Such websites include many innocuous sites such as one Australian university website (for doctorate studies I'm involved in). Last year I had access for several weeks at the start of the academic year, then without any reason access was denied for several weeks (frustrating as hell). Interestingly enough, another Australian university website remained accessible during the whole period.
My point is simple, I self moderate/p0lice myself on this and other websites, especially those with servers based in Ch!na. It may not be required, but having witnessed various suspress!onist activities (including websites DNS) at varying times in my more than one decade here, to me it is simply exercising my self imposed due diligence. You might consider it paranoia. I don't.
As I have stated, there is much more to this soc!ety if you scratch beneath the surface. Some foreigners have no appreciation at just how complex everything is here, and carry on completely absent minded. If only "they" knew. Everything in Ch!na is just for looking, for nothing is as it seems, beAware the smoke and mirrors - author: me.
What a spineless display of self censorship, the 50 cent party would be proud. So now even the word sensitive is sensitive? You guys are hilarious. But why stop at replacing every letter i with a !, here are a few more rules to make sure we please our favorite censorship bureau:
- no more mention of china, regardless what the name of this forum is. Just to be safe.
- new official language for the forum is Swahili, a much less threatening language and one that has been used in very few revolutions
- sʇuǝpıssıp ʎq pɐǝɹ ǝq ʇ,uɐɔ ɥɔıɥʍ 'uʍop ǝpısdn ʍou sı ʇxǝʇ llɐ
Of course let's make sure these rules are buried deep in a thread so that we don't miss a chance to shoot noobs down for not using the search button, which incidentally is about as useful as tits on a nun.
Ok just to make my point clear, you guys are the only ones offended by these words, the GFW doesn't give a shit what new contrived way you can think of spelling them. As Lain said there are sensitive words repeated hundreds of times on this forum, so either get rid of all of them or stop having a fit about it.
Funny how irritable bikers are in the winter...
Hey guys! There's a thing called the internet, you can use it by using a thing called a browser to go places that you like. Also motorcycles have things called engines, they make it go forward by using gasoline. I thought I'd write like 30 posts in three days to tell you guys about it, as I think I'm real clever so you dumb asses wouldn't know. Bye, love from noob. I think you're largely missing the point Felix.Quote:
Originally Posted by felix
So you agree with Lain? But Lain is wrong, he knows like you do, what you read on Wikipedia. Sorry if it puts your nose out of joint to find peoples actual first-hand experiences do not match up and then have points of view that might seem over zealous. The GFW dosn't use bots, they (in my provincial capital based out of the university) scan your freakin connection when you use the web to fish for words they don't like or think they might not like. Then that text is then tracked back to the IP that it came from. Then that IP may then be blocked. OK, so it isn't that likely, but why push it when we are writing off topic? Why keep on about it when you've already been asked not to? Why presume every internet connection is the same?