custom motorcycle for sale

The bike was custom made in 2011 in Beijing, based on a “Chang Jiang” frame .The Chinese engine has been replaced with a BMW 750 cc Boxer engine (German engine= long lasting quality). All other parts are custom made, which is obvious I think. The paint is very individual with fine lines on the tank. The bike is in good condition, since it has been always parked in a basement (stable temperature) and comes with an original “A-Jing” plate and relevant documents.This is deffo a fine piece of art and a daily eye catcher. I’m moving to India at the end of 2013/ beginning 2014 and it seems that India is one of the few places in this world I can’t ship it to… unfortunately. Therefore I hope the bike will find a decent biker in China! The price of 55 000 RMB is negotiable. I'll send more pictures upon request. You can also log on to:http://www.bmwsidecar.com for more info and pics about this bobber. Please use my private e-mail address for e-mails: norman.dentel@t-online.de

when is the first registration on the paper?

The first registration was in August 2004.

^Doesn't sound like much time left for the bike...
How many years left before bike must be scrapped (removed off the road permanently)?

2004? Really? I thought in prior posts you said that it was an expired CJ plate? A 2004 would put its expiration at 2015. Did you get new docs made, to accommodate the crazy-gas-station situation in Beijing?

But, of course, since it is now a 2-wheeled bobber, not a 3-wheeled sidecar, and since it has an engine swap (different engine number), the bike/plate would not be legal.

Great photography!

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

2004? Really? I thought in prior posts you said that it was an expired CJ plate? A 2004 would put its expiration at 2015. Did you get new docs made, to accommodate the crazy-gas-station situation in Beijing?

But, of course, since it is now a 2-wheeled bobber, not a 3-wheeled sidecar, and since it has an engine swap (different engine number), the bike/plate would not be legal.

Great photography!

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Exxxxactly, thanks Lao Jia Hou, you got the point, thanks for your post. The A-plate is original but only on my bike to get gasoline downtown, in combination with the related" blue book". Who would sell a custom made bike + a new licence plate for 55 000 RMB anyway?! Kinda " flea market" mentality....besides, I've never had any problems with police etc. riding the bike downtown within the last 2 years. Thanks for understanding that I'm not posting where exactly I'm living, to avoid waking up tomorrow morning without a bike in the basement:-)

Its a great, great bike! Reliable, taken care of, beautiful made. I will "stand" for the seller and so is Shuben. We made some rides together back in Beijing.

yep, agree with Sabine.

Come on man - someone asked you when the first registration was and you replied 2004. Uh ... kinda misleading, isn't it?

Also, you are a very lucky man riding that bike around downtown Beijing for a couple of years without any problems. If that is true, you DEFINITELY need to post your experience on the Chinese forums, where there are literally hundreds of posts across dozens of threads claiming a much different experience downtown - people would love to hear how you managed that. Valuable info!

Anyways, good luck with your sale.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Also, you are a very lucky man riding that bike around downtown Beijing for a couple of years without any problems. If that is true, you DEFINITELY need to post your experience on the Chinese forums, where there are literally hundreds of posts across dozens of threads claiming a much different experience downtown - people would love to hear how you managed that. Valuable info!

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i also know Norm's bike from the very early stages of buildup - Jimbo got those 16" wheels 'n tyres from me ...

since i arrived here in BJ 6 years ago i have been riding CJ's - all of them highly modified (2 of them converted to 2 wheelers) - all around in and outside BJ without having Trouble of any Kind!

i have been stopped by Police several times but all they wanted me to do is to take a pic of them on my rides

i know within the period of my stay things changed - now that i'm leaving BJ i already sent 2 of my 4 CJ's back to Europe 6 months ago and the other 2 remaining have gone back to Germany 1 month ago

thomas

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

i also know Norm's bike from the very early stages of buildup

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Yup, me too.

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

since i arrived here in BJ 6 years ago i have been riding CJ's - all of them highly modified (2 of them converted to 2 wheelers) - all around in and outside BJ without having Trouble of any Kind!

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You're a dealer, right? You're selling modified CJs, right? And you have an interest in this particular bike, right?

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

i have been stopped by Police several times but all they wanted me to do is to take a pic of them on my rides

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Dealer advertisement?

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

i know within the period of my stay things changed - now that i'm leaving BJ i already sent 2 of my 4 CJ's back to Europe 6 months ago and the other 2 remaining have gone back to Germany 1 month ago

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OK - without getting into details about CJs (I've also owned several, starting about a decade ago, of all shapes & sizes), the whole point is ... it is an illegal bike. It is not a 2004 registration, like the seller claimed, and it cannot be renewed (as the seller previously claimed). It is running fake documents. Let potential buyers know the truth & let the buyers decide for themselves - don't f'n lie about it. Lots of people are willing to run with fake docs on illegal bikes (ever seen a Su H plate?) ... well, they're willing to run fakes until they get into an accident. Not so much afterwards.

If the bike won't get into India, and it doesn't sell here, you could also get one of the few remaining CJ shops to whip up some fake registration & customs documents to get the bike into countries that allow "vintage" bikes (i.e., older than 25 years), and have an overseas friend sell it.

By the way, I share space with a large CJ builder in town (one of the few remaining) - he says most of his sales are to 2nd & 3rd tier cities. As a Beijing dealer, he's a bit shy about being held liable in Beijing (read the Traffic Code) if something goes sideways.

Finally, anyone who has been in Beijing a while can see the government's policy trajectory ... one day (who knows when), the man will likely be coming for the illegal bikes. Ever thought about why the gas stations are recording details about bikes & riders? Why are at least half the stations now asking for DL details, as well? Why do you think the police are compiling lists, via gas stations? Just for the hell of it?

Anyways, again - good luck with your sale - just be honest about what you're selling. There's probably a buyer out there, somewhere. Shit, in my exuberant youth, even I bought CJs! OK, fair enough, every CJ shop lied to me ... but that's another story.

^ +1
:thumbsup:

LJH, there is a world outside Beijing 5th Ringroad. This is an international website.
The seller is a privat person, selling his beloved bike where he put a lot of money and heart blood in. He is looking for somebody to buy it. This person can be found, maybe, all over the world. For example, Germany, Us, Australia .... there you bring this bike to the "Tuev", pay all duties, get all papers and enjoy riding. This bobber is the one and only of his kind!
You have made yourself "expert" in Beijing Laws, but that is all you are.

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Originally Posted by SabineHartmann

LJH, there is a world outside Beijing 5th Ringroad. This is an international website.

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Look, wonder woman, the guy advertised his bike as a 2004 registration (and on another website as eligible for renewal of an expired plate), and he claims he rides around inside the 2nd Ring Road all the time. And on those premises, he is trying to flog his actually-not-very-unique bike as something without legal risks.

Fine to "endorse" one of your few riding buddies, but he deserves being called out for trying to mislead people. Frankly, once again it shows the quality of your personal recommendations but, again, that's another story.

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Originally Posted by SabineHartmann

You have made yourself "expert" in Beijing Laws, but that is all you are.

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One thing that has always amazed me about you, wonder woman, is that you somehow claim to know me, and you definitely seem to stalk me. The truth is ... you know shit about me, because after one ride with you, I have purposefully avoided you. When you "lived" in Beijing, you were in your tiny clique of the Shunyi-marvels, and that is fair enough, but you never left that little bubble. That was/is your entire universe, over your very limited riding experience.

As I recall, you were also the #1 advocate of illegals bikes during your tenure here, and you tried to look down on people with legal plates (jealousy perhaps?). I thought you'd changed your spots, but I guess not.

Anyways, it is a pretty bike. Now quit fucking stalking me!

Always a Gentlemen!

Ok you got me. What is a Shunyi-marvel.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Yup, me too.



You're a dealer, right? You're selling modified CJs, right? And you have an interest in this particular bike, right?



Dealer advertisement?



OK - without getting into details about CJs (I've also owned several, starting about a decade ago, of all shapes & sizes), the whole point is ... it is an illegal bike. It is not a 2004 registration, like the seller claimed, and it cannot be renewed (as the seller previously claimed). It is running fake documents. Let potential buyers know the truth & let the buyers decide for themselves - don't f'n lie about it. Lots of people are willing to run with fake docs on illegal bikes (ever seen a Su H plate?) ... well, they're willing to run fakes until they get into an accident. Not so much afterwards.

If the bike won't get into India, and it doesn't sell here, you could also get one of the few remaining CJ shops to whip up some fake registration & customs documents to get the bike into countries that allow "vintage" bikes (i.e., older than 25 years), and have an overseas friend sell it.

By the way, I share space with a large CJ builder in town (one of the few remaining) - he says most of his sales are to 2nd & 3rd tier cities. As a Beijing dealer, he's a bit shy about being held liable in Beijing (read the Traffic Code) if something goes sideways.

Finally, anyone who has been in Beijing a while can see the government's policy trajectory ... one day (who knows when), the man will likely be coming for the illegal bikes. Ever thought about why the gas stations are recording details about bikes & riders? Why are at least half the stations now asking for DL details, as well? Why do you think the police are compiling lists, via gas stations? Just for the hell of it?

Anyways, again - good luck with your sale - just be honest about what you're selling. There's probably a buyer out there, somewhere. Shit, in my exuberant youth, even I bought CJs! OK, fair enough, every CJ shop lied to me ... but that's another story.

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Wow!

Sorry - didn't know you are "THE" specialist ...

What kinda fucking interest should i have in this particular bike - the current owner didn't buy it from me so what?

i'm not part of any community coz i'm an asshole - i do not live in shunyi even - i do not hang around with laowai's and i do not have any personal Advantage wether the bike gets sold or not

The Thing is i'm pissed with those tirekickers always giving comments to everything and finally claiming themselves as specialists

you asked how he managed to get around without getting any hassle with the Police - my answer was my experience within 6 years ridin' Changs in and outside BJ

sorry you are 4 years ahead of experience and you share space with a large CJ builder in town - definately you are much more experienced ... - shudders

seems after 10 years even you should know there are laws for everything here in China but noone takes care - off course if it gets "ugly" everybody starts wining but even in case of accidents with legal registered Changs insurance pays for max 2.000 rmb and you have to take care for everything else on your own

you are right with "legal or illegal" and also that someone has to Claim all Details before selling anything - that's for sure!

question is how to "remind" People and as far as i see the current owner didn't had any cheating or whatever in mind

for me seems you are Mr. Cool

THX for let us participate of your rich and outstanding knowledge ...

and BTW: if you are in a personal Vendetta with Sabine would be more efficiant to do that directly rather than on a Forum - just my 2 Cents about "personal behaviour"

Holy Mary, mother of Christ ... welcome to the Beijing CJ community! No wonder it is dying a slow death ... far from its glory-days of around 2004 when you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a few CJs driven by expats, with young girls in the bucket. Weekend rides would attract 30 bikes, or more. Now, maybe 4 or 5? Maybe. It was also about that time that custom CJ shops started springing up everywhere, claiming "We do it better."

This thread is about a guy selling his bike, and misrepresenting it. Who knows, perhaps he honestly believes it is a legal 2004 registration because that is what he was told by the CJ shop? There are lots of CJ owners around town who are learning hard lessons these days.

Face it, a lot of CJ shops rely on naive, FOB expat buyers. And the stories that are told to the newbies to move the bikes are simply amazing.

All I'm saying is ... be honest about the bike ... there are LOTS of people who buy illegal bikes. Let the buyer decide if he/she wants to take the risk, and to understand what the risks are. If it doesn't sell here, look elsewhere! For example, put the thing on weifengtang - definitely the best bet for that type of bike. Although it will be competing with the many other CJ bobbers done by Chinese guys.

As for your assertion that I claim great knowledge ... Nope, I just made the effort to learn the rules, after the CJ shops ripped me off. A community of bikers (e.g., MCM) help each other out ... that is what it is about. CJ shops didn't get the memo, I guess.

As for Sabine, I simply cannot express enough how unimportant she is to me ... but I kinda don't like hearing from people that she runs around telling people she knows me, or her vile posts/emails. I have simply decided to respond to her nonsensical posts (carefully read above), and asked her to stop stalking me. Not the first time, nor am I the only person, that has made that request of her. As I've noted elsewhere, it was encouraging to note that she finally got her driving license a few months ago, and a legal bike. Progress.

I'm waiting for all the shops to chime in, and blame the customer (i.e., me), for their dying businesses. Fortunately, however, there are still one or two shops that are straight shooters. That's good, because a 24HP CJ can be fun, for what it is, in small doses.

Sheesh, I'm really glad I've moved on from the CJ scene.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Face it, a lot of CJ shops rely on naive, FOB expat buyers. And the stories that are told to the newbies to move the bikes are simply amazing.

All I'm saying is ... be honest about the bike ... there are LOTS of people who buy illegal bikes. Let the buyer decide if he/she wants to take the risk, and to understand what the risks are.

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+1 here.,
couldn't agree more:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

Holy Mary, mother of Christ ... welcome to the Beijing CJ community! No wonder it is dying a slow death ... far from its glory-days of around 2004 when you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a few CJs driven by expats, with young girls in the bucket. Weekend rides would attract 30 bikes, or more. Now, maybe 4 or 5? Maybe. It was also about that time that custom CJ shops started springing up everywhere, claiming "We do it better."

This thread is about a guy selling his bike, and misrepresenting it. Who knows, perhaps he honestly believes it is a legal 2004 registration because that is what he was told by the CJ shop? There are lots of CJ owners around town who are learning hard lessons these days.

Face it, a lot of CJ shops rely on naive, FOB expat buyers. And the stories that are told to the newbies to move the bikes are simply amazing.

All I'm saying is ... be honest about the bike ... there are LOTS of people who buy illegal bikes. Let the buyer decide if he/she wants to take the risk, and to understand what the risks are. If it doesn't sell here, look elsewhere! For example, put the thing on weifengtang - definitely the best bet for that type of bike. Although it will be competing with the many other CJ bobbers done by Chinese guys.

As for your assertion that I claim great knowledge ... Nope, I just made the effort to learn the rules, after the CJ shops ripped me off. A community of bikers (e.g., MCM) help each other out ... that is what it is about. CJ shops didn't get the memo, I guess.

As for Sabine, I simply cannot express enough how unimportant she is to me ... but I kinda don't like hearing from people that she runs around telling people she knows me, or her vile posts/emails. I have simply decided to respond to her nonsensical posts (carefully read above), and asked her to stop stalking me. Not the first time, nor am I the only person, that has made that request of her. As I've noted elsewhere, it was encouraging to note that she finally got her driving license a few months ago, and a legal bike. Progress.

I'm waiting for all the shops to chime in, and blame the customer (i.e., me), for their dying businesses. Fortunately, however, there are still one or two shops that are straight shooters. That's good, because a 24HP CJ can be fun, for what it is, in small doses.

Sheesh, I'm really glad I've moved on from the CJ scene.

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hate to Claim that but have to say you are 100% right - i still remember when the parallel road to kempinski was really stuffed 'n crowded with CJ-Dealers and everyone claimed to be the better - the best - the 100% - and also i heard stories about how easy it is to Register

think Gerald was one of the few honestly told me about the real Situation - that was back in 2007

and - reading back in your Statements - you just discussed wether or not the rig which is for sale is legal or not

think you hit the Point with that one!

it has to clearly pointed to a potential buyer what's about the real validity of the docs

maybe i was too quick with kickin' in

thomas

First of all, thanks Sabine , Shuben and Thomas for you words about the reliability of the bike, I appreciate this;it is a nice one. Regarding the quotes of being lucky ridng the bike downtown; I personally never faced any incident, even police cars or police motorcycles passing by without batting an eyelid. I'll be doing this for already two years, also using my bike going to work for quite some time to avoid traffic jams and to cut down unnessecary time on the streets. However, I'm leaving in December, gotta sell it now.
Despite the sales topic, I saw that some of the previous posts to this thread were a bit exaggarated; no hate brothers and sisters :-). I'm just trying to find a new owner for my bike; regardless if Bejing downtown, Shanghai, Inner Mongolia or the moon. Thanks again and all the best to all of you guys! Safe rides and plenty of sunshine!

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

... and also i heard stories about how easy it is to Register

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Yup, back in the good-old-days, it was a total of 120 rmb for a legal plate transfer & inspection. Last legal one I purchased was in 2006 (an indestructible 24hp that survived 3 winters in Harbin), and the "agent fee" was an extra 30 rmb (when the rmb <-> US$ was about 8:1). The agent came & picked up the bike, took it for inspection & registration transfer (2 different places) and brought it back. Took him half a day ... for about $3.50.

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

it has to clearly pointed to a potential buyer what's about the real validity of the docs

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Exactly, and also the potential risks. One of the dirty little secrets that CJ Shops conveniently forget to inform buyers is as follows ...

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Law of the People's Republic of China on Road Traffic Safety

Article 100 - Where a self-assembled motor vehicle or a motor vehicle old enough to be scrapped is driven on roads, the traffic control department of the public security organ shall confiscate it and compulsorily scrap it.

A driver who drives on roads the motor vehicle mentioned in the preceding paragraph shall be fined not less than 200 yuan but not more than 2,000 yuan and his driver's license shall be revoked.

Where a motor vehicle old enough to be scrapped is sold, the unlawful gains shall be confiscated, a fine equal to the amount of money obtained from the sale of the vehicle shall be imposed, and the vehicle shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of the first paragraph of this Article.

===========

I've only ever heard of one story where a foreigner's expired bike was confiscated & scrapped, but there are a few stories on Chinese forums. The biggie, however, is that last paragraph. It is one of the reasons why a CJ shop owner I know is very reluctant to sell his bikes in Beijing. If an unhappy buyer gets pissed off (e.g., the bike is confiscated), he/she could make life miserable for the shop owner.

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Originally Posted by Normski

... ridng the bike downtown; I personally never faced any incident, even police cars or police motorcycles passing by without batting an eyelid.

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You may not be aware that the vast majority of police cars, etc, you see are not the Traffic Police. They are police from other departments, or even the local district chengguan. I haven't seen any road blocks this year, yet, but they do happen ... and it only takes one road block with one angry policeman, and you're toast.

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Originally Posted by Normski

I'm just trying to find a new owner for my bike; regardless if Bejing downtown, Shanghai, Inner Mongolia or the moon.

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Seriously, I wish you the best of luck in your sale. IMHO, you will have MUCH better chance of a sale, if you put it on Chinese websites that cover the provinces outside Beijing. That is what the CJ Shop I know does, and he seems to be successful. He has said that local sales to foreigners have pretty much dried up. Of course, though, you won't recoup the foreigner-premium that the Beijing CJ shops charge.

I was trying the best of myself to stop from replying to this post, but I couldn't. I'm sorry to push it up, but after reading it carefully from the beginning to the end I just can't.
Probably the owner is already gone or the bike has been sold, but... I just can't agree more with Lao Jia Hou, the post is really misleading and can confuse lots of Expats with little to none knowledge about PRC traffic rules or Laws, which could lead them directly to pay an insulting amount of money, jail or deportation (in the best possible scenario) in some cases when involved in an accident, not to mention the money they would have to pay because the insurance is not liable when the vehicle involved is "illegal" or "illegally assembled". If you don't know about this issue is because you probably don't even have a legal Chinese driving license or you got it illegally. I have read a post saying that "i have been stopped by Police several times but all they wanted me to do is to take a pic of them on my rides" which I won't discuss, as I have been witness to one too many awkward situations of law enforcement, but again, the least you can say about this, specially when, I assume, you know the rules, is that you have been very lucky... It is like when somebody tells me that has been stopped by the police in a routine control after being drinking and could get away with it. Sorry but I find it horrible! So you break the law, put others at risk and you make a joke of it!!!! It's not something I would be proud of or post about, but I have my own conscience.
You want to drive an illegal bike. Ok, fine, but please, don't make a joke out of it. Don't minimize it, DON'T ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO BREAK THE LAW as you were or you are still doing. If you don't care about Chinese laws its (not) fine, but I just wonder how would you feel about a foreigner breaking the traffic laws back in your own home country (GERMANY in this case) and caring shit about it, even mocking about it on Internet forums. Other poster seemed to be riding bikes without even a license for a long period of time, even illegal bikes, attacking a responsible and caring member that, as far as I know, is always helpful, caring, knowledgeable and responsible as Lao Jia Hou is just simply and plain stupidity. Time puts everybody in it's place.
As far as I am concerned, it would just be easy to post the advertisement somewhere people with little to no knowledge can answer it (as you have done, I am not going to post the address, I will just point that I didn't refer to this forum but to another website/magazine that a lot of foreigners acces to).
Anyway, you are asking, more or less, the same price you paid for your custom bike, which, I think, in my opinion, even with a BMW engine, may be a little too much, for that price you can buy a ... (But it's just my opinion) good luck and good riddance.
I hope that the reason you cannot take it to "India" is because you do not have the proper legal paperwork... after all you can have been scammed too and you are just trying to pass it to somebody else after you have enjoyed it for a while...
As I said before, good riddance

It's easy to see both sides of this problem. China gives out mixed messages. Seems either lax as fook or draconian with no 'reasonable' middle ground. :confused1:

Message A: In China there is the law, then again there is what people actually do. Most motorcyclists don't have a helmet license and so on, so some people think to copy what is done is fair enough especially when their behavior is condoned and accepted by various police officers. A foreigner on a respected and famous Chinese brand motorcycle will likely be able to get away with running a bit illegally. You may even be able to ride an illegal bike around central Beijing for years or ride a stolen in HK Gixxer 750 with no plates between SH and BJ, and be welcomed by the police.

Message B: In China there is the law laid out by the government. Zero tolerance for any alcohol and driving, speeding, red light fines are that law. Deportation, fines and imprisonment for non-compliance.

So what's going on? Clearly Message A is simply an example of corruption, as time passes this will most likely become less acceptable. On the other hand this kind of corruption is a result of laws that are too harsh. Why not allow a vehicle to be customized and ridden on the street, if it is safe and has met emission standards? But it isn't fair to attempt to sell a motorcycle to someone without them being aware of the risks of riding it. Saying 'I've never had a problem' is just misleading because every year the chances of having a 'problem' grow and grow and also smacks of the ebiker riding down the wrong side of the street rationalization: 'everyone else does it'.

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Originally Posted by Desmo

I was trying the best of myself to stop from replying to this post, but I couldn't. I'm sorry to push it up, but after reading it carefully from the beginning to the end I just can't.
Probably the owner is already gone or the bike has been sold, but... I just can't agree more with Lao Jia Hou, the post is really misleading and can confuse lots of Expats with little to none knowledge about PRC traffic rules or Laws, which could lead them directly to pay an insulting amount of money, jail or deportation (in the best possible scenario) in some cases when involved in an accident, not to ,
...
the reason you cannot take it to "India" is because you do not have the proper legal paperwork... after all you can have been scammed too and you are just trying to pass it to somebody else after you have enjoyed it for a while...
As I said before, good riddance

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just for my interest: how Long have you been living in BJ or China?

Tx for the endorsement, Desmo.

The whole legal / illegal bike situation is a can of worms. CJ shops (and most owners) rationalize the illegal bike trade because ... well ... that is their business/situation. Somewhat analogous to street chuan'r vendors selling rat meat as lamb - the vender isn't going to be upright & honest. I think this bike was initially purchased for >80K from Bryant's CJ shop (according to Normski).

In an email to the local riders, attempting to market his used bike, Normski mentioned that this initial > 80K price included >30K for the engine (Bryant's BMW engines are second-hand, usually purchased off eBay in the USA). I think the bike finally sold for about 30K (IMHO, that price still seems high), to a recent expat arrival (according to an email I received from this new owner).

There is definitely a CJ subculture in Beijing, distinctly separate from the mainstream motorcycle community, although this CJ subculture is greatly dwindling in numbers each and every year. There are a few legal CJs running around (e.g., 2005 registrations), and they sometimes come up for sale. In typical CJ subculture fashion, CJ sellers are trying to flog the legal CJs with an asking price that includes the price of a legal 京A plate for 2-wheeled bikes (currently around 60K rmb) ... when, in fact, a legal 京A plate for sidecars (3-wheels) is running around 15K rmb these days.

By the way, any time a person starts presenting facts about CJs, or illegal bikes, the ad hominem attacks quickly appear. The CJ shops, and their minions, have to attack you personally, because they can't argue the facts.

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Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou

By the way, any time a person starts presenting facts about CJs, or illegal bikes, the ad hominem attacks quickly appear. The CJ shops, and their minions, have to attack you personally, because they can't argue the facts.

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Exactly, case proven above. Also just by saying you personally don't enjoy riding three wheelers, pointing out they are slow, unreliable and heavy can be enough to create aggravation.

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Exactly, case proven above. Also just by saying you personally don't enjoy riding three wheelers, pointing out they are slow, unreliable and heavy can be enough to create aggravation.

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What do you mean CJs are slow, unreliable and heavy???? What would you know, you ignorant slut! :taz::sissyfight::hellfire:

euphonius

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

just for my interest: how Long have you been living in BJ or China?

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A little bit longer than 4 years now.

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Originally Posted by euphonius

What do you mean CJs are slow, unreliable and heavy???? What would you know, you ignorant slut! :taz::sissyfight::hellfire:

euphonius

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He did not say it. It was the old man "blind eye Beijing"
....... and merry Christmas to you all