CF650NK Bi Xenon or Xenon upgrade? HID projectors or not..?

So should i use Xenon or Bi xenon? as far that i understand Bi xenon has long beam and short while Xenon uses only short beam.

That should tell me that use Bi Xenon!

Second obstacle is 650NK head light construction as it already uses projector although this is halogen projector i could use it and not install HID projectors
while HID projectors are wider than Halogen normally and disperse light more wider (thats what i have been reading)
While normal reflectors would produce clare, i'm not sure if halogen projectors would produce any or at least very little clare.

I will ride tomorrow to market and look if they have some Bi xenon on sale.

BTW: Who can say if those "made in china" HID/Xenon projectors work any better that 650NK original ones? although they are made in china too :rolleyes1:

Just realised that if i install both Hi and Low beams i will loose ability to flash high beams what is sometimes very handy.. so maybe i will install only low beam as HID and keep High beam normal Halogen.

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Originally Posted by Wald0

So should i use Xenon or Bi xenon? as far that i understand Bi xenon has long beam and short while Xenon uses only short beam.

That should tell me that use Bi Xenon!

Second obstacle is 650NK head light construction as it already uses projector although this is halogen projector i could use it and not install HID projectors
while HID projectors are wider than Halogen normally and disperse light more wider (thats what i have been reading)
While normal reflectors would produce clare, i'm not sure if halogen projectors would produce any or at least very little clare.

I will ride tomorrow to market and look if they have some Bi xenon on sale.

BTW: Who can say if those "made in china" HID/Xenon projectors work any better that 650NK original ones? although they are made in china too :rolleyes1:

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The easier of the two HID Xenon options will be "Xenon" since the Bi-xenon you are referring to invloves installing the projector lamp. Understand thought that the only real difference between Xenon and Bi-Xenon, is that Xenon means a comibation of Halogen and Xenon bulbs supplied/used for the hi versus low beam, whereas Bi-Xenon is a dual beam (hi/low) kit.

Having to install the extra projector component may not be without its challenges. If the projector was exactly the same dimensions and had the same method of fitting as the projector housing already on the 650NK then it would involve a more straight forward swap out of the unit, like plug and play. You might find that the standard projector is more than adequate for the xenon bulb you put in. Only way to know is - do it! then report back here with your upgrade synopsis.

That said though, HID kits are far more complicated an install than just swapping over light bulbs. You have to connect a cable to the battery so that the HID system is live when the ignition is switched on. This allows the use of the flash to pass switch that you question. The connectors for the HID Xenon lightbulbs differ from the ones that connect to the Halogen, so there is a little work involved in wiring needed. Also to be considered is finding a location to mount the ballast housing(s) - not so easy on a naked style bike. There is one ballast for each Xenon bulb, but one can buy specific kits for motorcycles with twin headlights that only use one ballast. I've not seen these available anywhere I've shopped inside PRC.

While HID xenon lights are far superior to most anything in the Halogen line up, most of the HID systems available for motorcycles within PRC are poor design and quality. That's different for the car systems since there are foreign HID kits available either imported or being manufactured here. Consequently, what you might find over there that is coming out of PRC might be okay, or it might be simply the same poor quality crap we seem to get here.

If you do go for a HID Xenon kit, go for at minimum 35w, but if you can 55w. The 35w Xenon gas gives off higher lumens than regular Halogen light. Search the net and you will find comparison tables comparing the two gases/lighting systems.

Oh, and by the by, at least the 650NK came standard with 55w bulbs - right? The 650TR comes with pitiful 35w! Here these are useless since nearly everyone drives at night with the vehicles lights permanently on high beam. It drives me nuts, and I'd give anything to have a proton blaster mounted on the fore position of my rides...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wald0

Just realised that if i install both Hi and Low beams i will loose ability to flash high beams what is sometimes very handy.. so maybe i will install only low beam as HID and keep High beam normal Halogen.

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Not quite correct. When installing a HID system/lit one cable/wire from the HID klit connects to the battery so that the HID system is live when the ignition is switched on. This allows the use of the flash to pass switch that you question. If the wire did not connect to the battery then the "switch-to-pass" flash switch would not work effectively - taking to long to ignite through the ballast. Xenon takes several seconds to ignite. When HIDs first ignite the glow or light given off, takes several seconds to get up to temperature, so the light illuminates getting brighter and brighter over that short time period.

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

The easier of the two HID Xenon options will be "Xenon" since the Bi-xenon you are referring to invloves installing the projector lamp. Having to install this extra component may not be without its challenges. If the projector was exactly the same dimensions and had the same method of fitting as the projector housing already on the 650NK then it would involve a more straight forward swap out of the unit, like plug and play. You might find that the standard projector is more than adequate for the xenon bulb you put in. Only way to know is - do it! then report back here with your upgrade synopsis.

That said though, HID kits are far more complicated an install than just swapping over light bulbs. You have to connect a cable to the battery so that the HID system is live when the ignition is switched on. This allows the use of the flash to pass switch that you question.

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Really? so this would mean that it will not take many seconds to ignite the bulb? that was the main reason why i was hesitating to change both bulbs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

The connectors for the HID Xenon lightbulbs differ from the ones that connect to the Halogen, so there is a little work involved in wiring needed. Also to be considered is finding a location to mount the ballast housing(s) - not so easy on a naked style bike. There is one ballast for each Xenon bulb, but one can buy specific kits for motorcycles with twin headlights that only use one ballast. I've not seen these available anywhere I've shopped inside PRC.

While HID xenon lights are far superior to most anything in the Halogen line up, most of the HID systems available for motorcycles within PRC are poor design and quality. That's different for the car systems since there are foreign HID kits available either imported or being manufactured here. Consequently, what you might find over there that is coming out of PRC might be okay, or it might be simply the same poor quality crap we seem to get here.

If you do go for a HID Xenon kit, go for at minimum 35w, but if you can 55w. The 35w Xenon gas gives off higher lumens than regular Halogen light. Search the net and you will find comparison tables comparing the two gases/lighting systems.

Oh, and by the by, at least the 650NK came standard with 55w bulbs - right? The 650TR comes with pitiful 35w! Here these are useless since nearly everyone drives at night with the vehicles lights permanently on high beam. It drives me nuts, and I'd give anything to have a proton blaster mounted on the fore position of my rides...

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Well as what comes to living in Vietnam and specially in Hanoi, we pretty much get same crap what is in China, this might be little different in Saigon. There are some fake phillips and boss kits available, but i don't have any idea of their quality and it might be all the same to buy some unknown brand instead.


Yes, 650NK comes with 55w halogens and true replacing projectors is lot more work, as you have to find projectors that have same dimensions than the old ones and requires removing "class" from the head lights to install them.

maybe i will bite the bullet and just go a head and buy these Phillips maybe they are not genuine but i think these Bosch must be fake for sure.

Well after i went one shop and they said that those Phillips are 450dollars i decided think it.. (no way im going to spend 450dollars for lights what i cant say are they real or not.. not to mention that 100% price increase from 225 -> 450.. )

So i found another shop and bought these.
One ballast and one bulb, as now first I will make only low beam.
Attachment 13702
Bulb is only about 4000k because they did not got any bigger in stock have to wait week so they can get new one.. but what should be better 6000k or 8000k?
Attachment 13703

Ballast is really small and if lucky i can hide it behind headlight.

If after this installation i am not satisfied with outcome i plan to buy 2 bi morimoto projectors and run both low beam settings and only one would be operating high beam. Those projectors should fit very good.

That reference to 4000K, 6000K and 8000K refers to the colour temperature rating and changes the colour of the light given off. Each number represents a colour on the spectrum. This comes about depending on how high the Xenon gas is being heated, within the HID vaccum tube, between the two electrode ends within that tube (meaning the light bulb) which determines the colour given off. The break down is an industry standard, and consequently each number correlates as such;

3000K = yellow
4000K = off white
6000K = platinum or bright white
8000K = light blue
10000K = blue
12000K = deep blue
14000K = purple

Knock offs or fakes may not be accurate and the colour and light intensity may not be as expected nor predictable/reliable.

Stick closer to 5000K which is nearer the white part of the colour temperature spectrum. The higher you go, the bluer the light emitted gets. 8000K is going to give off a more blueish hue, which won't provide you as the rider as much visible light when its needed or counts. You'd also want to get 35w or even 55w to get a greater instensity of light (lumens). If you go with 25w xenon then that equates to approximately...60w halogen - not much improvement on what your 650NK standard bulbs are, other than maybe different light spectrum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

That reference to 4000K, 6000K and 8000K refers to the colour temperature rating and changes the colour of the light given off. Each number represents a colour on the spectrum. This comes about depending on how high the Xenon gas is being heated, within the HID vaccum tube, between the two electrode ends within that tube (meaning the light bulb) which determines the colour given off. The break down is an industry standard, and consequently each number correlates as such;

3000K = yellow
4000K = off white
6000K = platinum or bright white
8000K = light blue
10000K = blue
12000K = deep blue
14000K = purple

Knock offs or fakes may not be accurate and the colour and light intensity may not be as expected nor predictable/reliable.

Stick closer to 5000K which is nearer the white part of the colour temperature spectrum. The higher you go, the bluer the light emitted gets. 8000K is going to give off a more blueish hue, which won't provide you as the rider as much visible light when its needed or counts. You'd also want to get 35w or even 55w to get a greater instensity of light (lumens). If you go with 25w xenon then that equates to approximately...60w halogen - not much improvement on what your 650NK standard bulbs are, other than maybe different light spectrum.

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Ok, now i started to worry can my ballast support 35W? it has marking 35< so 35 and under is good?
my bulb don't say anything about is it 25 or 35w..

^guess so. But the ballast should be suitable for the HID bulb within the kit. Likely you find the rating on the packaging.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

^guess so. But the ballast should be suitable for the HID bulb within the kit. Likely you find the rating on the packaging.

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Well this was not "kit" as say... i just took ballast from shelf and asked H7 lamp for it..

Started to install xenon today and i must say! there is not much space behind the lamp assembly!
i manage to fit that slim ballast there but only just! and i'm not still convinced that my idea is even good!
i will look if there is another place possible when im pulling cables from battery.

If installing second xenon there must be some place where ballast can be installed.

Still to do is find a new relay as what i read its important to let ballast draw current directly from battery and use normal headlight connectors to trigger relay..

Attachment 13713
Bulb in place.

Attachment 13714
Only place what manage to think in short time.
(other would have been top of speedo, sort of...)

Attachment 13715
does this have lot of glare?

Attachment 13740
Top one is original halogen and bottom is Xenon..
must say i am little disappointed by this outcome.





Cut off line is good.. picture is not good.. :)

Was thinking to get Morimoto H1 projectors but they seems to be fake.. well got offered 2 today and seller said that first one was not so good quality and offered me another pair of what had been imported from Russia and those had reflector part made from some sort of metal instead of plastic that those other "morimoto" projectors had.

So decided to go all the way! added two Bi-Xenon projectors (Morimoto H1 probably fake ones)
but instead of doing install my self shop did it for me at same price than parts, added also angel eye to lower projector. all ballast did fit under left tank fairing (2 ballast) but it was tight squeeze and i might be looking better install later.


Attachment 13810
might try better installation later but it requires taking tank of and i really hate that pump connection!!

Attachment 13811
Angel eye is that yellow ring, decided also paint reflector black.

Morimoto H1 Bi-Xenon upgrade.

Morimoto H1 are about same size than original projectors so changing them is pretty easy swap.
mind you, I did not do this swap, as shop did it with the price of the parts.

I also added angel-eye light to lower projector what is actually pretty bright and can be use as day driving lights on the day time if wanted.

I use both lights on the same time, if wanted you could install them so only the lower light would be on while using short beam, keep in mind that then it would be better to install "flash to pass" switch directly to lower one, then use normal high low switch to route power to second ballast and upper projector solenoid.

This will require lot more pulling wires.


Wiring
Connect original high beam cables to projectors solenoid that controls shield inside projector

Important! ->You do need to install diode between high and low beam powers to prevent power cutting when you switch to high beam.



Attachment 13841

Location of ballasts
I founded that i could install them behind left tank fairing, next to indicator relay.
mind you that my ballast are really small.

If you have bigger ballast options could be to install them one left side and one right side.

Unsure if under the tank has any space, as i did not remove tank for the installation.


Angel-eye
My angel eye did not require any transformers so connection was made to those small led lights in front. (Afterwards, I do feel that i should had replace those 6 small led with more brighter led's)

Reflector
I decided to paint mine complete matt black, if you do this better use something that withstand the heat, or you can choose to keep it normal.