CFMoto 650TR muffler upgrade

I'm going to be trying out this exhaust in about a weeks time. I placed the order yesterday with the Taobao seller and came to an agreement that if the muffler doesn't fit or perform well then I can return it for a refund. The seller had not sold any to owners of the 650TR only those with the 650NK, so he had no idea if it'd fit or not. So mine will be the first. I'd already taken a look under the engine and how the OEM muffler and box of restrictions fits and from the photos, looks like it should be a suitable fit.
Fingers crossed it fits and works.

Attachment 13800

It certainly is a much cheaper proposition than the IXIL's offered on Taobao for the CF650's, but feel it's worth it. If it works great, if not I'll send it back and then consider if I'll go with an IXIL at triple to four times and even higher prices.

EDIT:
I''d planned to disconnect the battery for at least 10 minutes after fitting, then reconnecting to see if the ECU/ECM recalibrates itself - defaults. Wasn't needed. Bike started right on up, no coughing, spluttering, hesitation, or off idle. No popping, farting, misfiring or back-firing.

Attachment 14101

I like the look of the muffler, short and stubby. This is what I like about the OEM muffler/exhaust, in that it's short enough that it doesn't get in the way of the RHS swing arm and wheel. I would prefer this after market one, had the outlet pipe turned more to the RHS as the OEM does, but one can't have everything.

Attachment 14102

I'm not searching for any substantial increase in dB, just a little more throaty sound and deep rumble at idle would be nice, as well as freeing 'er up just a tad... by removing that restricting box slung underneath which weighs like a tonne. OK, more like 5-6kg then. It's a bloody heavy contraption CFMoto had slung under there.
:mwink:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

I plan to disconnect the battery for at least 10 minutes after fitting, then reconnecting to see if the ECU/ECM recalibtrates itself - defaults

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How will that work?
If your bike is fitted with an injection with a O2sensor, and runs in the so-called 'closed loop', it should adjust nevertheless.
This is however applied across the entire fuel-map range, might help a bit in case you fit an aftermarket exhaust, but changes nothing on the fuel-map itself.
It is also dragging (it only adjusts based upon previous readings), so is never accurate to adjust for a fixed modification.

It's an idea, since fitting the muffler will remove the OEM catalytic converter and other associated restrictions, though I'm hopeful that the muffler will have adequate packing inside to filter out most of the nasties. As far as I have read there are two methods, to assist in recalibrating for the addition of the exhaust (lean versus rich).

1). reprogram using the manufacturers computer module plugged into the ECU/ECM pigtail... not an option round here it would seem. Was, but that shop has closed.

2. Another option disconnect bike battery and leave for 5 mins. Reconnect battery, start engine, leave idling for 3 mins (don't touch throttle) then turn off ignition using key. Turn on ignition key and restart the engine. ECU/ECM will default all the values within the fuel map tables. Brain reboot...
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...-slip-on-pipes

3. Another post elsewhere simply advised just disconnecting battery for 8-10 mins, and then reconnect and the ECU/ECM should default all the values within the fuel map tables. Also brain reboot...

This is as far as I can recall, and made sense when I read them. Option 2) & 3) is relevant for those without access to the recalibration computer module - which is my case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

It's an idea, since fitting the muffler will remove the OEM catalytic converter and other associated restrictions, though I'm hopeful that the muffler will have adequate packing inside to filter out most of the nasties. As far as I have read there are two methods, to assist in recalibrating for the addition of the exhaust (lean versus rich).

1). reprogram using the manufacturers computer module plugged into the ECU/ECM pigtail... not an option round here it would seem. Was, but that shop has closed.

2. Another option disconnect bike battery and leave for 5 mins. Reconnect battery, start engine, leave idling for 3 mins (don't touch throttle) then turn off ignition using key. Turn on ignition key and restart the engine. ECU/ECM will default all the values within the fuel map tables. Brain reboot...
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...-slip-on-pipes

3. Another post elsewhere simply advised just disconnecting battery for 8-10 mins, and then reconnect and the ECU/ECM should default all the values within the fuel map tables. Also brain reboot...

This is as far as I can recall, and made sense when I read them. Option 2) & 3) is relevant for those without access to the recalibration computer module - which is my case.

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Hi Doc

you should be ok with option 2 & 3 .....


All this procedure requires is powering down the ECU. Meaning removing the constant power supply the ECU has that maintains the RAM and hence any data the ECU has stored itself. To do this you can either disconnect the battery or disconnect the ECU. I tend to unplug the ECU as that way I don’t have to reset the clock afterwards. but in your case with the TR it would just be nice to re-set the clock if you had one lol I don’t know how long it takes, so I give it 5 to 15 minutes for superstition and plug it back in again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prince666

All this procedure requires is powering down the ECU. Meaning removing the constant power supply the ECU has that maintains the RAM and hence any data the ECU has stored itself.

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Sorry to say, but this is total BS advise.

It is totally useless to reset a AFV (Adaptive Fuel Value) as it will start adjusting again immediately after you start the engine.
And it does not matter if the last AFV value is from your last ride, or from a reset.
It will adjust within anything from 2-15 minutes.

The only time a AFV is re-set is when you are adjusting a fuel map, to prevent mis-interpretation of the values for each block .
But that is not the case here.

If you don't know what you are talking about, that is no shame, but don't set other people on the forum on the wrong footing.

I had no intentions to set people on the forum on the wrong footing it must of been BAD advise i was give then and i am sure Bikerdoc is thinking a long the same lines as well so would you be so kind as to what he can do then when someone fits a new exhaust as regards to the ECU
Ho by the way i dont have bad eyes so small fonts are ok

Bad advise was found here part number 3 ...

http://www.wikihow.com/Repair-Your-Vehicle-%28Basics%29

And bad advise found here a well

http://www.ftooc.org/forum/archive/i...p/t-47422.html


cybatrix
10-06-2010, 19:55
Did you do an ECU reset after fitting the decat?

General rule of thumb is to do an ECU reset immediately after making any performance modifications in order to recalibrate it's self.

After fitting a sports cat my FTO didn't respond very well at low revs. An ECU reset sorted that out.


You can't get the FTO ECU remapped you'll have to get piggyback ECU which isn't cheap.

A sports cat will be no different in performance than a de-cat and seeing as your car was built in 1994 you don't need a cat anyway to pass the MOT.
CaptainK
11-06-2010, 15:14
Another thing to check is that when they installed the exhaust and decat they didn't knock the lambda sensor and thus make it read weirdly and thus make the engine run badly. But as said above, do an ECU reset first and see if that makes a change. Could also be that your new exhaust has a blockage in it somewhere - you never know.



shit i am not having a good day with all this bad advise

But thanks for pointing this out to me

I am really not going to argue with you, if you think that internet info proves your right.
You can probably also prove that Jesus Christ was female, the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, and the pope a Russian secret agent.

What I am saying is that adding a (normally higher flow) aftermarket exhaust is a significantly change in the hardware of the engine.
It will change the mixture flow and timing, and needs to be compensated in fuel flow, fuel timing and ignition timing if you want to optimise it.

All I say before is, that if you know how a closed loop system works, you will know that the AFV can't really compensate for that.
It might compensate a bit at certain times, but is not a fix.

You might find out that you don't have backfires after a hot city stop-and-go, then got the backfire back after a smooth highway ride.
This is because it learns from past-time, and also only adjusts if it is in closed-loop.
If you ride in open-loop (which is probably a lot in China), the AFV part is completely disconnected, and the bike runs on the standard settings.

With regards to Bikerdoc, it seems he is totally aware of the technical limitations he will face. He knows there is nothing much more to do without access to the ECU software itself.

And all I added to that is that resetting things should go automatically on this point, no need to perform externally.

Quote:

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I am really not going to argue with you, if you think that internet info proves your right.
You can probably also prove that Jesus Christ was female, the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, and the pope a Russian secret agent.

What I am saying is that adding a (normally higher flow) aftermarket exhaust is a significantly change in the hardware of the engine.
It will change the mixture flow and timing, and needs to be compensated in fuel flow, fuel timing and ignition timing if you want to optimise it.

All I say before is, that if you know how a closed loop system works, you will know that the AFV can't really compensate for that.
It might compensate a bit at certain times, but is not a fix.

You might find out that you don't have backfires after a hot city stop-and-go, then got the backfire back after a smooth highway ride.
This is because it learns from past-time, and also only adjusts if it is in closed-loop.
If you ride in open-loop (which is probably a lot in China), the AFV part is completely disconnected, and the bike runs on the standard settings.

With regards to Bikerdoc, it seems he is totally aware of the technical limitations he will face. He knows there is nothing much more to do without access to the ECU software itself.

And all I added to that is that resetting things should go automatically on this point, no need to perform externally.

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Who is aruguing... the whole point of forums is for people to give points of view and to exchange information and to learn! you have in this post made your point of view to which i understand now so thank you for that ... was jesus Christ was not a female then ???? that is news to me

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I hope this worked. I'd be inclined to run the bike at about 6000 rpm hit the cut-off and then do a plug read to make sure that you're not running too lean. (I know the plugs aren't easy to get to).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

I hope this worked. I'd be inclined to run the bike at about 6000 rpm hit the cut-off and then do a plug read to make sure that you're not running too lean. (I know the plugs aren't easy to get to).

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Be nice to fit a Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge


Attachment 14109


http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm

found this one in youtube.
Guy removed that big catalytic converter and made new connecting pipe and reused that short muffler..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riNiHiManXo

I went and also removed my original exhaust, as i took away that short muffler I noticed that it was completely empty.. part of those perforated pipe pieces what where just rattling inside.. So either somebody has deliberately gutted that or moisture has corroded that pipe and after that all stuff from inside has not blown away..

But anyway, I did not have much options here in Hanoi nor i wanted to spend fortune on some brand name.. or even to buy "brand" name with top dollars just to find out it was not real..

I found Two brother M-2 copy what looked like i wanted.
package said ARASHI but i think original "brand" is CNC, but anyway Chinese copy nevertheless.

Attachment 14517
"Carbon fibre"
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Installation is same as in 650TR except in 650NK there is less plastic to remove.

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As this was not for this bike shop crafted me a connection pipe.

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I had to go two times in garage, first pipe was too much under swing arm and exhaust gasses heated it up real nice :thumbsup: so i went back and said to them to angle it little more outward, maybe it went now just a tiny bit too much, but i let it be.


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It came with DB killer and i must say it is needed!! man that pipe is LOUD!! so using killer is must..

Attachment 14534 Attachment 14535 Hey Guys had this 'Delcavic UK' Pipe fitted by Pipeworks Tecniques on the Gold Coast for $450 and I have to say Noel did a great job, looks good sounds great. This has leaned out the fuel mixture and created a bit of popping on decell (I kind of like it though) And as the EFI cant be remapped it can be corrected using a Piggyback FMS, Powercomander is the most popular but I recommend the 'Juice Box' as it has +/- buttons for leaning or richening mixture. If you choose to do this Premapping on the FMS should be for a 2007 ER6N or 650 ninja as the internals are the same (not the 2012-2013 these are mapped slightly different). Hope this helps :thumbsup:

I'm into the idea of a new muffler for my NK, mostly for weight saving, aesthetic and durability. I haven't pulled the trigger, because of the expense and the worry about correct fueling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

I'm into the idea of a new muffler for my NK, mostly for weight saving, aesthetic and durability. I haven't pulled the trigger, because of the expense and the worry about correct fueling.

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I would not be so much worried about correct fuelling, if you would change full system then yes i would say get your self power commander or some sort extra juice package.

but as normal slip on?? no usually no need.. then again run it with baffle or db killer so you will have some back pressure, without those you are basically running with straight pipes, and i can sure you that noises would be loud!!
but then again some believe that loud pipes saves lives ;)

Yes Waldo, but I've done this very mod on many bikes before. Your bike sounds faster and more powerful, but never actually is, it is louder, but that louder that sounds exciting around town gives you a migraine on a long ride. Your bike looses back pressure as much as because you've dumped the cat as the muffler then what happens is the air goes past your sensor at three times the speed and the ECU then dumps fuel into the engine.

You'll likely:
1. Lose torque
2. Gain a couple of hp if you're lucky only around the peak (8,500rpm)
3. Massively reduce fuel efficiency
4. Lose 3-5kg off the bike
5. Fail annual inspections due to emissions
6. Become illegal on the street as you are running without a cat

So there are a few ways I'm willing to go:
1. Put a dyno-tested after market muffler on the bike and leave the original cat.
2. Put a dyno-tested after market muffler and high-flow cat on the bike.

Options like just throwing a random pretty muffler on with no idea of the effect on the bike are not my cup of tea, thanks. I can't experiment because there are no dynos in my town.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Yes Waldo, but I've done this very mod on many bikes before. Your bike sounds faster and more powerful, but never actually is, it is louder, but that louder that sounds exciting around town gives you a migraine on a long ride. Your bike looses back pressure as much as because you've dumped the cat as the muffler then what happens is the air goes past your sensor at three times the speed and the ECU then dumps fuel into the engine.

You'll likely:
1. Lose torque
2. Gain a couple of hp if you're lucky only around the peak (8,500rpm)
3. Massively reduce fuel efficiency
4. Lose 3-5kg off the bike
5. Fail annual inspections due to emissions
6. Become illegal on the street as you are running without a cat

So there are a few ways I'm willing to go:
1. Put a dyno-tested after market muffler on the bike and leave the original cat.
2. Put a dyno-tested after market muffler and high-flow cat on the bike.

Options like just throwing a random pretty muffler on with no idea of the effect on the bike are not my cup of tea, thanks. I can't experiment because there are no dynos in my town.

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Well, what goes to cat at least my 650nk did not have cat, unless its in header pipe. so there went that reason.
and sure! you will loose some back pressure.
as what comes to my fuel efficiency it is still the same, not better nor worse..
and for long runs.. I wear helmet what reduces lot of sounds, and also like to listen music while riding :riding:
so no headaches here :) sure again if i would remove baffle then there might be some headache involved.

Annual inspections.. in Vietnam they don't do any inspections.

And what comes to speed and power? if you want faster bike buy new one.. 1000cc maybe ;)
I did my modification only for one reason, and thats to improve its look by revealing swing arm.
not to get more power or speed, where would i use more speed or power?? :naughty:

Actually i just had a look at the muffler, I doubt there are any mufflers as short on the market so it's an absolute must to take out the cat, which is not something I'm willing to do, so looks like I'm off the muffler bus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Actually i just had a look at the muffler, I doubt there are any mufflers as short on the market so it's an absolute must to take out the cat, which is not something I'm willing to do, so looks like I'm off the muffler bus.

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If you are referring that under hanging box I can assure you that it is not a cat in any way. it is just muffler with straight perforated pipe in angle.. well that what i had so I believe that 650NK do not have a catalysator.. and if has it could only be in that case in header pipes like my 2007 Yamaha FZ1-n had.

even if manual wil state that

"Catalytic Converter
This motorcycle is equipped with a catalytic converter in the exhaust system. Platinum and rhodium in the converter react with carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons to convert them into carbon dioxide and water resulting in much cleaner exhaust gases to be discharged into the atmosphere.
For proper operation of the catalytic converter, the following caution must be observed."

it will also state that

"Air Suction Valves
The air suction valve is essentially a check valve which allows fresh air to flow only from the air cle- aner into the exhaust port. Any air that has passed the air suction valve is prevented from returning. Inspect the air suction valves in accordance with the Periodic Maintenance Chart. Also ,inspect the air suction valves whenever stable idling cannot be obtained ,engine power is greatly reduced ,or there are abnormal engine noises.
Air suction valve removal and inspection should be done by an authorized dealer."

And to my knowledge there is not air suction valves either :) or again they are not in my bike

How heavy was the "box" then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerdoc

How heavy was the "box" then?

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it was heavy but still it had perforated pipe and you could see other side. could you look your old muffler? try to stick something through and if it get other side it do not have cat..


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Waldo, you're almost certainly wrong, although I hope you're right because it means changing the muffler and 'cat or muffler box' wont make me fail emissions.


Reasons:
1. To pass Euro 3 emissions the bike must have a cat. Bike has Euro 3.
2. The place where that box is, is where nearly all manufacturers put a cat
3. All a cat is, is a perforated pipe in a box
4. Why would any manufacturer increase costs by putting a muffler box underneath the bike and then also have a muffler if the cat is in the header?

Exhibit 1: A bunch of car cats.
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Exhibit 2: A Suzuki Gixxer 600 cat, looks kind of similar, no?
Attachment 14565

Perhaps Bikerdoc could find out and give us a definitive answer from the factory?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Waldo, you're almost certainly wrong, although I hope you're right because it means changing the muffler and 'cat or muffler box' wont make me fail emissions.


Reasons:
1. To pass Euro 3 emissions the bike must have a cat. Bike has Euro 3.
2. The place where that box is, is where nearly all manufacturers put a cat
3. All a cat is, is a perforated pipe in a box
4. Why would any manufacturer increase costs by putting a muffler box underneath the bike and then also have a muffler if the cat is in the header?

Exhibit 1: A bunch of car cats.
Attachment 14564

Perhaps Bikerdoc could find out and give us a definative answer from the factory?

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well catalytic converter and muffler has completely different jobs, as muffler is there to reduce sound and converter is there to reduce emissions.. and these days most converters are free flowing honey comp design

and catalytic converters are definetly not just perforated tubes if so where would be back pressure? and their job is to filter gasses if they would be just going straight through where would all that filtering happening?
i would understand if that box under the bike was like number 5 in that picture where is has two pipes entering from different corner and as you can see there that "Brick" that is actually the filter. but as i said my box had just perforated pipe what you could see other side. although it not easy as it is little bend.. :)

Then the muffler must be the cat and vice-versa. The under bike box is a muffler box and the muffler is the cat then?? :deal: There is a cat....somewhere or it isn't euro3 bike and wouldn't be sold in the UK or Australia!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Then the muffler must be the cat and vice-versa. The under bike box is a muffler box and the muffler is the cat then?? :deal: There is a cat....somewhere or it isn't euro3 bike and wouldn't be sold in the UK or Australia!

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Well, take a look inside your pipe ;) if you cant see honey comp then i don't think so then again.. might not be a good idea run cat after muffler.. ;) i am tempted to go downstairs and take a look inside header pipe.. :naughty:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

Actually i just had a look at the muffler, I doubt there are any mufflers as short on the market so it's an absolute must to take out the cat, which is not something I'm willing to do, so looks like I'm off the muffler bus.

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if you are worried about removing cat, you could take a look this link
http://az79640.vo.msecnd.net/akrapov...9616856edc.pdf

Akrapovic has cat what you install in before slip on.

Waldo it's all good I think I'm just one of those who wants a proper dyno tested muffler with a cat and a properly reprogrammed ECU. My options in China don't allow all that, so I'll leave it for now, unless the cat is in the header....then maybe.