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Hi,
New to this site and to the motorcycling world. Doing some research into the Chinese motorcycling manufactures for my first bike and I can help myself but wonder as to why there are so few bikes with more than 250cc. Lack of demand? Any particular reason for it? Thanks.
The Chinese government decided many years ago that they really rather like cars, and decided to make the car industry the a pillar of Chinese (unsustainable) economic growth. Motorcycles were regarded as an irritant industry, competing for resources and road space.
People who work in the motorcycle industry in China are generally just interested in money, they have mostly no love for bikes, possibly the way you might think of a single cylinder generator, and consequently little idea what consumers want and no innovation or imagination to make anything original, much preferring a numbers game. 'We exported XXXXX units last year so we are the biggest manufacturer in China'. The fact that they made thousands of low grade super-cheap Honda based 125cc copy bikes was not relevant.
However as Chinese companies buy struggling western brands, and powerful western brands start more joint ventures in China to cut costs, the shop floor quality of the bikes has and will continue to increase, so that most likely in ten years you'll really see little difference between the better Chinese bikes and Japanese made bikes. With a higher level of manufacturing larger engines are now possible and many have realized the 'entry level mid sized bike sector' from 250cc-650cc is a lucrative market for domestic and developing country 'leisure hobbyists' to recent test passers in Europe, Australia and America.
About local attitudes and demand, who an tell?
Another thing is that a huge number of first-, second-, and third-tier cities in China have motorcycle restrictions or outright bans. As the overwhelming majority of China's wealthy citizens live in urban areas, this has killed off a large portion of the market for high-capacity bikes.
All of the above and also the fact that most Chinese companies don't have the technical nous to build a 'big bike' of adequate quality.This example is apparent with Shineray who have been developing (and even advertising) their 400cc displacement bikes for over a year, they are still no where near ready for sale.
True, but this isn't the biggest stumbling block. Most Chinese companies just plain don't have the desire to build big bikes. This is purely conjecture, but having visited India, Thailand, Italy and being from the UK I know that companies in those countries can easily find employees with a genuine passion and interest in motorcycles.Quote:
Originally Posted by englishman in china
Sure, there is an underground motorcycle fan group in China, but seriously they must make up less than 0.2% of the adult population and chances are those bike fans would have no power or influence if they were employed in a motorcycle company and most of the employees would be there for the money through some kind of nepotism or connections. In my opinion it's pretty hard to bolt together a good motorcycle if you are dreaming about being a car owner. I'll wager if you look at the number of over 400cc engines manufactured in China the massive majority are put in quad bikes, side by sides etc.
Another thing to be aware of is that the destination countries such as Ecuador have much higher import duties and taxes on bikes over 250cc making bigger bikes unaffordable for those who buy china bikes. If you can afford an expensive china bike you just buy a Jap bike.
Mike
Import duty on motorcycles from China to Ecuador is 30% plus a 12% VAT plus 0.05% FodInfa tax (children development fund) regardless of displacement as it is the same rate for all sizes. I do not know where you are getting your information from Miguel but it is not accurate.
http://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/.../ecuador_e.htm
Interesting. I know we pay higher reg fees and I thought an extra tax on bigger bikes.
I stand corrected.
Mike
Why would you want an high capacity Chinese made motorcycle…..the industry is primarily built to provide low cost transportation, it actually was over built in that.
Since it is overbuilt it will not grow in production, it cannot, it will loose production.
The industry manufactures perpetually and has slowed its rate for the past years, some of the manufactures are developing larger displacement models. However I would not believe that any are very profitable doing so. I do not believe that the industry is profitable at all overall.
The leader in offering larger displacements is Zhejiang Qianjiang and in order for them to do that, they bought technology, they bought Benelli and have not recovered the investment yet. They have actually borrowed more to keep the dream alive. Some say they bought it twice, they keep spending and are not profitable. They have revenue and costs and the difference in the bottom line is still negative. That is not so unusual and many operate in the red until they can manage to get it all correct.
There are others and you could say they are driven to do it, that being build larger displacement models but those that are and have been still manufacture transportation models. Even CFMOTO has not let go of making a 150cc model. Others have moved on to add Automobiles or augmented their manufacturing base to include autos and small trucks. Xinyuan and Yinxiang both have, could say they are the most Honda like but thats a stretch in my opinion. I would say any analogy between the Japanese motorcycle development and the Chinese in considering their histories, is ill-founded, likely more racist then anything. So I never make that comparison its just another manipulation in logic when its made. Copying and reverse engineering was not in the Japanese nomenclature, not to any significant degree as it is in China. The Japanese pioneered process control and with low cost material. The Chinese lie about having the control and do not care, they do it all cheap and flood markets through a ridiculous number of channels. They do best under the control of clients as an OEM and with foreign management. In that you could see a foreign company manufacture in china, larger displacement motorcycles, but what is the advantage when the actual real sales of such are small in China. They are growing in number and at high rates…but then selling one and then making that two sold is a one hundred percent increase in sales, nice value to throw around a one hundred percent growth rate. But its not significant enough is it. Looking at QJ is and in that many analyst are not so bullish.
Logic says that a slow boat on a fast track…..well I am sure you can all see what is happening behind the satin once silk curtain?
Very insightful MJH.
Personally I see the future of Chinese motorcycle manufacture within the context of joint ventures. The reason why Qian Jiang have and are failing is because Chinese bosses are calling the shots, yet the brains are in Italy and lie in a fairly small unprofitable company.
The 125 market has been fairly successful because it's a market that wants cheap bikes and mostly the people who buy them often aren't well informed.
You are correct that there is this pet theory amongst motorcycle journalists in the west that China's motorcycle market is some mirror of the Japanese in the late 60's or early 70's. It's not for so manyreasons already covered.
The future lies in joint venture production. This is clear from CFMOTO and KTM, Locin and BMW and so on, the Chinese manufacturers who think they can go alone surely will ultimately fail with bike production, surely with big bikes.
I remember an article on Visordown I think saying how everyone would be riding about on Chinese superbikes in a decade's time. What a load of bull. How can you build a superbike without any racing experience or when you actually have a cultural aversion to motor racing as is the case in China? The Japanese are some of the most passionate about motor racing people in the world.
With regional governments in China completely hell bent on banning motorcycles, I really have my doubts about the future of the Chinese motorcycle industry.
Well often you have a group of wealthy people and next to them may in fact be losses that are piling up into the national banks? This specific industry is not profitable but some of its administrative executives may be?
http://www.theatlantic.com/china/arc...verage/281660/
Want to know how the trading companies operate, they sell out of many factories production and for pennies on the dollars. They simple place orders, they are order takers. The factory just keep cranking them out and the trading companies dump them into the markets.
That is not a sustainable business model, we all know what it takes for a motorcycle manufacturer to survive. They have to be linked into the markets and have well managed channels. They are often subdivisions of the larger parent company.
They cut each other throats in the market…they even cut off their nose to spite their faces. They all sell copies of the same things and under cut each other at every turn. That is because behind it all at the top are some black Audis that only want to make sure they keep getting their salaries? They manage it all on their side with presentations of great milestones and lots of pop and pageantry, all with lots of red color.
Why care if the president get one dollar for each sale? It only one dollar.
These “Royals: as I like to call them, some know they need to sell off some of their assets to foreign companies, but others refuse as its against national honor. That’s your left and right in China, I admit an over simplification but it’s a pretty good one.
They need to sell off the assets but in that comes the downsizing and efficiency and it is too soon some say. Because the workers are also getting pennies and they need the pennies to keep it all growing. The efficiency will shrink it all down and in that let many go and that’s not something they are able to address. However they can see the lack of sustainability in particularly this industry.
I predict a price war out of the top manufactures and a big cleaning up, by killing off the littlest. That will help in that Sunduro, Wuyang, Haojue will take much of the market with prices and quality the others cannot match.
I image the politboys will respond with the islands again or some other mind control distraction as the Japanese machine turns itself on high in china to take percentages of the Chinese beloved yet hated motorcycle industry.
What will be interesting is whether Sundiro, Wuyang, Haojue, Qingqi, Jianshe etc decide to start making a 350-650cc commuter middleweight bikes. If CFMOTO and others can make them, and they can build them in India, they certainly can in China. I don't know why they haven't, maybe the Japanese management haven't wanted it or the Chinese management haven't pushed for it. Or maybe the they think the Chinese will just use politics kill off the entire market if the Japanese have dominance.
I think Haojue might be the first as they are having success with the Inazuma 250.
Why make it in China if it cannot be sold in China? There are probably allot of Chinese mothers that really do not want their only son on a motorcycle, seriously on those streets.
Anyways…
Who was it that brought back Morris Garages?
http://www.saicmg.com/
I suppose the reason that there are not really any great websites for motorcycles in China is in part do to the lack of interest and not really wanting to encourage it? Its odd isn’t it them not being all in, could be that all the talent goes to other industries.
I’d like an MG please. but not a 7 though, would like a midget though and really cheap thanks.
Make it looks like this please.
http://content.worldcarfans.co/2012/...1734569537.jpg