Greetings from Beijing!

Hey fellows,

I'm a German studying in Beijing for a year. Since I'm in the process of obtaining a chinese driver's licence i also stumbled over this board during my research - thank's a lot for all the useful information i already found!

Back home i got a Suzuki GSR600 and i really miss driving. So i thought about combining my travels in semester break in Jan/Feb or after my studies in july with biking. Travelling for 2-4 weeks by bike, maybe with a tent, sounds like the perfect way for me to both see a lot of this country (probably more than by public transportation, especially less "mainstream tourism") while also curing my cold turkey :clap:
Buying a bike is out of question because of the plate issues and my limited time for selling afterwards, so i'm looking for rental only. Already got in contact with ridechina, seems like a decent business with good bikes (Jialing 250 or 600 seem like exactly what i'm looking for) at fair prices. If anybody has additional hints for me where to get good bikes (legally!) or information about common and reliable models (don't know much about the domestic bike market) i'd be happy to here about.

Other more general questions:
What are the best places to go to for late january/february? So far i only looked into the southwest but i'm not that familiar with chinese climate.
What is the situation with TAR, is the "only with guide"-policy still in place?

Thank you! If you got any questions about me feel free to ask :)
Cheers,
Andy

Hi and welcome... to get your juices flowing pay a visit to this thread on motorcycle rentals and tours and for riding ideas check out Amy and Bucks the great ride of China

Andy, welcome to MCM & Beijing

Buying a bike is no problem, as you will be in Beijing > 6 months. Have you just arrived in China? Or are you leaving China in February, and the bike tour is the pre-departure fun? One problem, however, is the price of 京A plates (currently around 60,000 rmb). However, if the main purpose is to tour around, you can acquire a 京B plate for a few hundred rmb. Another problem would be the illegal bikes, which have illegal plates (impossible to make them legal).

A B-plated bike should not be difficult to sell afterwards. Whether you buy new or used, the bike will be used when you are finished. Also, B-plated bikes are a little easier to sell because potential buyers do not have to come up with the extra 60K rmb. If a buyer wants an A plate, he/she can simply switch the B plate, after acquiring the A plate in the secondary market.

If the plan is to tour late January/early February, you have to head into the far South for warm weather. That would mean shipping a Beijing-plated bike, either via train or truck. That can get a little expensive, and risky. You might want to search around for bikes-for-sale which are already down South.

Cheers

Thanks for the responds.

@bikerdoc: that's the thread that made me find ridechina :) Most links are about guided tours though, not about rental places. But i should probably just contact them and ask about renting.
The tripreports are really great, can't stop reading.

@Lao Jia Hou
I'll be in beijing til end of July. February is an option because we got semester break till early march, july would be pre-departure fun.
Didn't know B-plates where that much cheaper. nevertheless, with buying i see too many problems:
-No use to have a bike in beijing in february because of the weather & transportation issues you mentioned
-Hardly any time to sell if i tour in july
-no safe place to park since i live on campus (on which only electric scooters are allowed)

Another question about the vehicle registering: Can i just buy a B-Plate in beijing, take it with me to wherever to buy a bike and then just put the plate on? I just assumed there would be paperwork to be done in beijing to register the vehicle, but then again their system is so diffrent to what im used to :)

ridechina makes a good impression on me, just wanted to know if there are other rental companys around with good reputition. Simply don't want to end up with a bike in bad condition putting me in uneccesary danger or having to pay unrealistic laowei-prices ;)

Welcome!

"Another question about the vehicle registering: Can i just buy a B-Plate in beijing, take it with me to wherever to buy a bike and then just put the plate on? I just assumed there would be paperwork to be done in beijing to register the vehicle, but then again their system is so diffrent to what im used to :)"

Well, here in Beijing you cannot plate anything that is not new, as I understand. With the plate, there is a little "blue book" that is the registration of the bike, in it comes a picture of the bike and all legal details like chassis number, and, I guess, engine number and things like that, therefore you cannot separate this two things unless you send the bike to scrap, get some paperwork done, etc... After a quite difficult and tedious procedure, I understand that you are allowed to legally transfer the plate to another bike, but I also heard that it is not 100% guaranteed or problem free. If you take the risk of taking the plate with you to another province and use it on other bike, you will most likely end up riding an illegal bike, which, in case of accident will bring you A LOT of trouble. I personally wouldn't recommend you doing this, but it is totally up to you.
If you are going to ride it elsewhere, maybe you should check that place's market, as it probably will be cheaper and easier, if not, you can always buy some cheap rides, usually up to 150cc here for around 5K up, a Jing B plate is cheap and would let you ride everywhere outside the 4 ring road. There are lots of nice mountain roads out here and the traffic inside the 4th is pretty aggressive and dangerous...

I forgot to mention that different provinces in china have different policies and regulations about motorbikes...:bs::bs:

"If you are going to ride it elsewhere, maybe you should check that place's market, as it probably will be cheaper and easier"

Do you mean i can just buy a plated bike where ever and ride it legally? I thought i had to transfer the plate to my name and that this would only be possible at my place of residence. Guess i still haven't understood everything about the plates/registration ^^ Is the plate registered to a specific vehicle AND a specific person or just to the vehicle? (I mean, in terms of surveillance, speed traps ect registering a plate to a vehicle only wouldn't make much sense)

As said before, i actually don't want a bike for within beijing/daytrips around beijing but for a longer tour to experience some other areas of china. So it doesn't make much sense to buy anything here for me.

The more i try to learn about buying the more problems i see, i guess i better stick to the inital plan of renting :D Thank's for your hints on transfering plates in beijing though anyway.

The plate belongs to the vehicle, that is why you can say: it was not me driving/riding the car/bike and somebody else can pay the fine. (Of course, you will pay that person)

But still the plate got to be connected to somebody (guess the person who got the plate in the first place)?
Doesn't really answer my question though: Is it possible to buy a plated bike without having to do any paperwork at my place of residence, supposed you find a seller willing to do so (&if it is common practice)?

I'm really sorry if i ask stupid questions answered several times already, tried to search the board but only got to threads about transferring plates to your name or getting new plates in the first place (both things i do not want to do since they would require me to do it in beijing).

I don't know how "legal" it is to buy a bike and not to transfer it to your name. I know that you can do it, people do it with illegal bikes, meaning that those plates and the registration are both fake, altered or who knows. If you want to do it just understand that in case of an accident you will be FULLY LIABLE, even if it is not your fault, and your insurance will not cover the expenses, of course not to mention the legal actions you would be facing.
I think you are totally right about the registration, meaning that you have to be registered at the nearest police registration office within the area you are living.

Sabine, I think you are wrong, if the bike is not registered to your name the police can't fine you unless they stop you, and if they stop you, then you wouldn't be able to say that it was somebody else driving. They simply cannot find you if your vehicle is not registered in your name and residence, right?, that is why people hire agents to help with the procedures and paperwork, legwork, etc. Again, that's only if you want it legal.

There are some posts here about registration agents, maybe you can contact one that can help you to solve your concerns

If everything is registered properly, even if you are riding outside your resindence's province, you should be ok, unless you are riding on a highway (most of them are forbidden for motorcycles) or in a city with motorcycle restrictions.

If I were you, I would make a list with more or less the places you want to visit and let the people that post in the forum tell you about the possible restrictions you may face, users here are very glad to help.

Cheers!

Just imagine the bike is in somebody else's name and you happen to have an accident or do something really wrong. The former owner to save his ass could say, for example, that you stole the bike from him, which will add into whatever wrong happened. Unless you leave the scene like a bat out of the hell, which would make it even worse, specially if you get caught. in this possible scenarios you will end up doing time in a chinese prison. I don't know, to me, riding illegally is just not worth it. I wouldn't do it in my own home country and certainly I wouldn't do it here, but many people don't give a sh:::t about it, mainly because they are unable to see the consequences, or they don't care, disrespect or simple ignorance...

If you get stopped by an agent in possession of an illegal bike, plates, etc... Your bike will be impounded, your driving license revoked and you will have to pay a fine of up to 2000 RMB., if you add that to the price if a bike.... I think it is not worth it. All of that if you are NOT involved in an accident, because then it will become even worse.
Of course, in Beijing I have been witness to a miriad of exceptions, but this does not mean that it couldn't happen to you, as far as I know, policemen are no longer avoiding Irresponsible laowais as before, it could be a matter of good/bad luck.

Thanks for your thoughts.

But i think you got me wrong. I'm aware of this all, that's why i'll either ride legally or not at all. I was just looking for legal options beside buying a bike & registering a plate to my name here in beijing and renting.

Sorry about that, it was not my intention to lecture anybody, although rereading my latest posts looks like it, he he he....
Many people, even people that have spent some time here are not completely aware of the consequences, specially when it is actually cheaper/easier to choose the dark side... Sorry if I was overstepping, I was just exposing some facts I was not aware of when I first arrived Beijing.
That being said, hope you find something suitable and enjoy the ride. I feel quite jealous! I have small kids so I won't be able to do some riding like that for a while...:taz:

The vehicle and registration plate are tied to both a person (or business name) and their drivers license/ID card/passport number etc. This explains why the person (or business [aka work unit]) whose registered the plate appears in the PSB Traffic Management IT system, and is included on the motor vehicle registration card included in the 'blue' wallet. Anything official concerning the vehicle and it's plate often requires or needs the registered owner whether that be an individual or business, to either be present when dealing with matters (most of the time) and/or have someone (acting as an agent with appropriate supporting documents) present their drivers license/ID/Passport or other relevant documents etc. This doesn't need to happen with speeding or red light camera infringements as the person presenting to pay the said infringement is claiming to be responsible. This can depend naturally on the type of alleged violation, and importantly points being administered.
Keep in mind that every town, city, district, province is in actuality its own little kingdoOm slash empire, so what applies in one jurisdiction may not apply in another. See the example about Taizhou below.

When a vehicle is sold, the actual registered owner (individual/business rep) has to be present (presenting their ID card/passport) when completing a transfer to the new owner. If the new intending owner (buyer) is from out of the city or province then usually the original plate will be surrendered and the whole file related for to the registered vehicle held by that Traffic PSB will be provided in a stamped and sealed envelope which will be given to the new owner, who must present this envelope unopened to the relevant Traffic PSB authorities in the intended jurisdiction. There is a time limit allowable for this to occur (between 21-28 days from memory), and the envelope containing the file must not show signs of being tampered with. A temporary paper plate is also issued to cover this time period by the Traffic PSB from where the vehicle is being transferred from. Obviously this differs if the both the seller and buyer are individuals versus businesses etc and are located in the same jurisdiction. As does the rights of the owners where plates can be transferred and/or reassigned from one vehicle to another. That's why it is misleading to think that simply paying for a motorcycle or vehicle with a current valid and legal plate can simply be bought, paid for and shipped to the buyer without the two parties coming together, as both the registered owner and potential buyer MUST present to the Traffic PSB where the said motorcycle or vehicle is registered and being sold. The caveat to this being if the seller/owner is a business entity that may specialise in such activities.

If the vehicle is due for an inspection, it will be done at the time the bikes 'registered' ownership is being transferred, at the time of the transfer formalities. A transfer fee is also payable at this time. When I did this earlier this year it was a set flat fee, irrespective of the bikes 'declared' value.

This might also explain why it is problematic when attempting to deal with vehicle mandatory inspections, most of the time the registered owner has to be present, though a nominated person (e.g. car workshop/agent) can sometimes handle the re-inspection on the registered person's (owner's) behalf. After all any workshop/dealership 'worth its salt', requires a signature on a work order, which probably would suffice allowing the business to 'act as the owners agent', given that both copies of drivers license and passport are usually required - at least this is the case with my car. This is what I have done with my cars inspection years past including this past August. I have had the same done with a couple of my motorcycles in the past, where the local Suzuki motorcycle dealer/workshop have handled the inspections. However sometimes this is not allowed. As is the usual case, Guanxi plays a significant part as does one's location, as not all things are the same in all parts of China.

For example, in Taizhou, one can register a 150cc bike/scooter without needing a motorcycle drivers/riders licence. The Traffic police issue the bike/scoot with a white plate with black characters and alphanumerics. This plate is of slightly different dimensions compared to the standard yellow plate issued for motorcycles, and is for all intense and purposes legal. Not sure what would happen if one rides a bike with this type of plate into another jurisdiction. The plate though still needs to be obtained with suitable identification e.g. ID card/passport. In the areas connected to Ningbo that allow motorcycle registrations/plates, no such allowance is provided meaning all motorcycles with a regular petrol aspirated engine of any displacement require the user to have a motorcycle endorsed drivers license, despite Ningbo and Taizhou being in the same province.

Hope this clears any confusion...

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Hope this clears any confusion...

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Thank you a lot, this certainly does!

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Originally Posted by AndyCCAA

Another question about the vehicle registering: Can i just buy a B-Plate in beijing, take it with me to wherever to buy a bike and then just put the plate on? I just assumed there would be paperwork to be done in beijing to register the vehicle, but then again their system is so diffrent to what im used to :)

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There are two "types" of B plates in Beijing:

1) Privately registered. The B plate/bike is registered to an individual person. For an individual to do this, that person must have a residency registration in one of the outlying districts of Beijing (e.g., Pinggu, Tongzhou, Hairou, etc). You probably live within the 6 major districts of Beijing, so this could not be done by you.

2) Company registered. The B plate/bike is registered to a company that has a main business address in one of the outlying areas of Beijing.

The 2nd option (company registration) is very common among motorcycle owners, both Chinese persons and foreigners. The reason is price - people do not wish to spend 60,000 rmb for an A plate (Nov 2013 price). A company-registered bike is 100% legal, anywhere in China, aside from locations with specific restrictions (e.g., in Beijing, you cannot ride a B-plated bike within the 4th ring road).

A company-registered bike is (of course) owned by you, and you will have paperwork showing that, despite the bike's registration being in the company's name.

The major motorcycle dealers in Beijing each sell thousands of motorcycles each year. About 60% of the bikes they sell are with company-registered B plates, about 20% with private B-plates, and about 20% with A plates. These large dealers know what they are doing, and have set up their sales operations so that they offer a one-stop purchasing/plating/insurance. They take care of everything for you, usually for a small "service" fee. As one example, Dadihengtong (the largest dealer in Beijing, with 8 outlets) charges about 800 rmb for company-registered B plates, including insurance & initial bike inspection. Another very large dealer (Qili Motors) is about the same. Stay far away from the smaller shops, unless you have a knowledgeable person with you.

When you want to sell your B-plated bike, you simply create a Bill of Sale between yourself and the buyer. MCM member Jaycee has kindly provided a template (click here). The bike remains registered in the company name, and does not have to go through the registration transfer process. If, by chance, you bought a used B-plated bike that was due for its inspection, you can easily do it yourself in Beijing (you do not need a company representative to appear). Alternately, the shops/agents charge a small fee to do it for you.

To answer your specific question about buying a B plate and taking it with you to a shop. No, you cannot do that. It is not necessary, though, because the reputable shops are set up to handle everything for you (as noted above). You could purchase an A plate, in advance, but that is a completely different situation, and should only be attempted by knowledgeable buyers.

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Originally Posted by AndyCCAA

ridechina makes a good impression on me, just wanted to know if there are other rental companys around with good reputition. Simply don't want to end up with a bike in bad condition putting me in uneccesary danger or having to pay unrealistic laowei-prices ;)

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I do not know anything about ridechina, nor the rules that apply in the province in which it operates. What I do know, however, is that in the 3 years I have been struggling to get approvals for a WFOE (Wholly Foreign Owned Enterprise) that covers motorcycle rentals and tours (among other things within the business scope) ... we have researched several provinces and discovered that none have any existing 100% legal operations (that we could use as a reference). Recreational motorcycling is a very new thing in China. As one example of the struggles ... although we have WFOE approval for rentals, we cannot get the Traffic Management Bureau (a completely different government department) to register the bikes for business use (you will see on a bike's registration whether it is for personal, or business, use). We need business use, of course, to get the proper insurance. And in our research of insurance, PICC could not find any examples of motorcycle renting insurance, anywhere in its system (i.e., PICC didn't know how much to charge us, so it pulled a ridiculous number out of the clouds).

Lots of rental places operate outside the law, to varying degrees. But again, I do not know anything about RideChina - it wasn't operating when we first started our research.

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Originally Posted by AndyCCAA

Is the plate registered to a specific vehicle AND a specific person or just to the vehicle? (I mean, in terms of surveillance, speed traps ect registering a plate to a vehicle only wouldn't make much sense)

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The plate belongs to a specific person (or company), but is attached to a specific bike. The plate stays with the bike for the bike's entire lifespan (in Beijing, it is now 13 years), unless the bike is sold to a buyer from another province (again, another confusing situation). Because the plate belongs to a specific person, when the bike is destroyed at the end of its mandated lifespan, you can take the plate and move it to a new bike. Not very important with an inexpensive B plate, but crucially important with a 60,000 rmb A plate.

When you sell a plated bike, the new owner transfers the existing plate registration into his/her name (except, as noted above, B-plated company registrations).

Traffic fines/points via cameras are the responsibility of the registered owner. If you ignore the traffic notice (sent by mail), and/or refuse to pay the fine, you will not be able to have your bike inspected (required on a periodic basis). If you were not the driver when the infraction occurred, you need to convince that other driver to fess up and pay the fine (and perhaps accept the penalty points). Because it is possible to say "someone else was driving ... and here they cooperatively are ... give them the points, and get the money from them", a cottage industry has developed where you can hire people to say he/she was the other driver. The going rate in Beijing, these days, is 300 rmb/point.

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Originally Posted by SabineHartmann

The plate belongs to the vehicle, that is why you can say: it was not me driving/riding the car/bike and somebody else can pay the fine. (Of course, you will pay that person)

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Incorrect. The plate is attached to the vehicle, but the plate is "owned" by the registered owner (obvious case-in-point ... A plates). Like most western countries/states/provinces that also attach a plate to a vehicle, for the vehicle's entire lifespan, the plate's ownership transfers with the registration transfer between a buyer and seller. Again, with A plates, when the vehicle is disposed of (either through mandatory scrapping, or the permitted sale to another province), the registered owner keeps the A plate (he/she has 6 months to attach it to a new bike).

Finally, as noted by both Desmo & Bikerdoc, the rules/procedures vary from province to province, across China. Sometimes, widely varied.

Hi AndyCCAA,

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you: I'm German, came to Beijing three months ago to study Chinese (at Beiwai/BFSU - where do you study at?), will stay here till end of June at least, and just passed the driver's license test today. I also don't want to get a motorcycle to ride it around Beijing, but for traveling. So I'd appreciate if you share any further findings here.

@Lao Jia Hou: Thank's a lot for the detailed explanatioN!

@Kette:

Sure, will keep you informed when i got something new. Because of all the registering issues i'll probably won't buy but keep looking for rentals. Just PM me your wechat/weixin.
I'm at Tsinghua. You are also kindly invited to tag along if you want, already got 2 friends (both also german) on board as well (making buying even more difficult). We'll probably go for 2-3 weeks in Yunnan/Sichuan in february. Aren't quiet sure about the dates yet since we are not all certain about when we are requiered to be back to university for reregistering for next semester.
If everything goes well i'll probably go riding in july again :D

How long did it take for you between taking the test and signing up for it? Haven't scheduled mine yet but hope to get everything done within this year.
Where did you do the medical exam? Gonna try tomorrow with the hospital on campus, but since it's not on the offical list it would be good to know one in the neighborhood which definitly does it.


Another general question:
For January/February, does the weather allow to go to northern yunnan (Dali, Lijang) & sichuan (liangshan/leshan/chengdu) or would you advise me to stick to the south?

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Originally Posted by AndyCCAA

@Kette:

Sure, will keep you informed when i got something new. Because of all the registering issues i'll probably won't buy but keep looking for rentals. Just PM me your wechat/weixin.
I'm at Tsinghua. You are also kindly invited to tag along if you want, already got 2 friends (both also german) on board as well (making buying even more difficult). We'll probably go for 2-3 weeks in Yunnan/Sichuan in february. Aren't quiet sure about the dates yet since we are not all certain about when we are requiered to be back to university for reregistering for next semester.
If everything goes well i'll probably go riding in july again :D

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Thanks for the invitation, sounds good. Unfortunately, I won't have time to join you in Jan/Feb, but maybe in July.

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Originally Posted by AndyCCAA

How long did it take for you between taking the test and signing up for it? Haven't scheduled mine yet but hope to get everything done within this year.
Where did you do the medical exam? Gonna try tomorrow with the hospital on campus, but since it's not on the offical list it would be good to know one in the neighborhood which definitly does it.

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I signed up for the test on Nov 22nd. Then they told me I can do the test on Dec 2nd.
I had my medical examination at a hospital in Chaoyang. It was done in less than 5 min.
I was told that it is impossible to sign up for the test without the "registration of temporary residence" stamped by the local police station. My university usually doesn't hand this form out to students who live on campus; so I had to ask for it, get it stamped by the university and then by the local police station.

P.S.: Do you want my study material to prepare for the test? I don't need it anymore.

I did the health examination today and got my "registration form of temporary residence" stamped today.
So just some quick information for whoever may find this thread in the future:

The Hospitals on Campus of neither Tsinghua nor Beijing Daxue do the health examination. We went to Beijing Haidian Hospital instead. It's right at the Subwaystation Haidianhuangzhuang. You enter, go to the "examination area" to the right, first door is registration for the examination (10 kuai). If you don't have a form you'll get one there. If you fill it in beforehand make sure to do it in black ink. We didn't know and use blue... Since neither me nor my friend speaks good mandarin (and understand even less) it took us some time to figure out what was wrong - first we thought she said we forgot to fill in something / filled something in wrong because she kept pointing on our forms :D
The examination itself is just a simple eye test, you look at some Es over a mirror and got to say the direction they point. Seemed like she didn't care about our answers anyway though ;)

The Police Station responsible for you when you live on Campus of Tsinghua Daxue will be Zhongguancuan Police Station - went to the wrong one first but got very kindly directions to the right one.

By the way, this is the route we planned so far:
goo.gl/TVk0If
Still pretty rough, especially the part from chengdu back to the south. But if you got any hints about must-do-places or roads to ride (or better not ride) i'm eager to hear. Also im still unsure if the route is fit for january temperature-wise - cold temperatures are ok, but i'd rather not get into icy conditions.

Quick update:
Got my drivers license by now :)

General Information for people who want to get their license in Beijing:
Contrary to some guides on the web you do not need to fill out any "application form". You just show the Health Examination, your foreign license & translation & your passport and you'll get a date for the test ~10 days later.
On Test day you actually get 2 tries ride away (lucky me, got 89 on first try :D). After second failed try you get a new test date.

Our plans changed slightly due to lack of time, we'll make a roundtrip with start and finish in kunming. So no Lugu Lake, Emeishan or Chengdu but on the other hand more southern yunnan.

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Originally Posted by AndyCCAA

Quick update:
Got my drivers license by now :)

General Information for people who want to get their license in Beijing:
Contrary to some guides on the web you do not need to fill out any "application form". You just show the Health Examination, your foreign license & translation & your passport and you'll get a date for the test ~10 days later.
On Test day you actually get 2 tries ride away (lucky me, got 89 on first try :D). After second failed try you get a new test date.

Our plans changed slightly due to lack of time, we'll make a roundtrip with start and finish in kunming. So no Lugu Lake, Emeishan or Chengdu but on the other hand more southern yunnan.

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Did you get the C1E (permits you to drive cars and motorcycles) or C1D (cars, motorcycles and three-wheelers)?

C1D (which includes C1E). My friend only got C1E though - he has the same german license class as me but is still in probation time. Didn't hazzle with arguing since C1E is enough for our plans.

Congratulations. Another mystery to puzzle -- why one guy gets a C1E and the other a C1D. Did you have to go through the whole ritual of them telling you that it's not safe to ride motorcycles, so please just get a C1 car license? Or are they starting to understand that some people would actually WANT to ride a motorbike?

Yunnan sounds excellent!

Actually no, it went really smooth.

The Problem with my friend was, my german license just states that i have the car&motorcycle license, but on his there is an remark that he is not allowed to ride more than 34hp until next year (german legizlation, young drivers are limited to 34hp for 2 years). I got no clue what that has to do with being allowed to drive 3-wheelers. But we didn't try to argue because we feared they may not give him C1E at all if we explain the remarks on his license :D