Shanghai to Tibet.....and back again?

Now finally in possession of a motorbike, I intend to make a trip from Shanghai to Lhasa, and ideally back again, this September / October. Having done no serious driving in China, I'm wondering about lots of things - modifications, luggage, road-side repairs, entry permits etc, so hopefully the biking community on this site will be able to provide some good tips on how to prepare.

(I did get a little 100cc scooter from Hanoi to Saigon in about a week, 2 years ago, but Vietnam is just one of those places where you ignore everything about preparation - and rules, and see how you get on...)

Things to consider:
- entry permit for Tibet; only for the person, or also for the bike (like a "carnet de passage")
- mods; I think the Benelli will be okay with a set of allroads and some sort of luggage set... am I missing something?
- roadside repairs; puncture kit, standard toolkit, can of WD40...?
- maps / GPS; any good reliable GPS systems that can be recommended? Should you double up on map and GPS in case of trouble with the electronics or lack of battery power?
- tent / camping gear; this would give more flexibility for driving through, but is it really necessary?
- timing; how much time would it take to get to Lhasa from Shanghai? Google maps shows the route through Xi'an and down from the north as the shortest, which I find a bit incredulous. But then I have also heard something about foreigners not being able to enter Tibet from Sichuan?
- return leg; I have read a lot here about how practical it can be to get your bike on the train and fly home, so the idea of only riding back to, say Chengdu, might be quite appealing after having weathered the storm. Has anyone tried to ship this connection of cities before?

I am starting to get excited about the idea of some snaking mountain passes, fresh air and scenic views, but I am aware that all that can fade quickly when things turn out differently than expected...

Thanks!
Mark

i would rethink that. will get cold at that time!!

Mod:
- increased front fender space or easy disassembly kit.
- suitable tire set for rough road condition

ShuBen is right, most probably you will find snow and ice also.
as a newbie on China roads why don't you start with smaller tours, like 1000 Island Lake and the coast down south? most of your questions you can answer yourself afterwards. when I design our longer rides I keep the day distances between 300 and 400 Km/day because you never know what happens with or on the roads

300 - 400km in developed areas with wider roads.
For remote areas I would not exceed 250km as daily planning.
Especially curvy mountain roads on a full loaded bike are exhausting and slow you down. On good mountain road condition without construction you will need 9 - 10h for 350 - 380km incl. fuel and recreational stops I can say from my experiences. Better plan conservative because of weather, construction, flat tire, etc.
For the worst case (you cant make it as planned) I would consider a sleeping bag, a tarpaulin/tent and rope for backup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mblank

Now finally in possession of a motorbike, I intend to make a trip from Shanghai to Lhasa, and ideally back again, this September / October. Having done no serious driving in China, I'm wondering about lots of things - modifications, luggage, road-side repairs, entry permits etc, so hopefully the biking community on this site will be able to provide some good tips on how to prepare.

(I did get a little 100cc scooter from Hanoi to Saigon in about a week, 2 years ago, but Vietnam is just one of those places where you ignore everything about preparation - and rules, and see how you get on...)

Things to consider:
- entry permit for Tibet; only for the person, or also for the bike (like a "carnet de passage")
- mods; I think the Benelli will be okay with a set of allroads and some sort of luggage set... am I missing something?
- roadside repairs; puncture kit, standard toolkit, can of WD40...?
- maps / GPS; any good reliable GPS systems that can be recommended? Should you double up on map and GPS in case of trouble with the electronics or lack of battery power?
- tent / camping gear; this would give more flexibility for driving through, but is it really necessary?
- timing; how much time would it take to get to Lhasa from Shanghai? Google maps shows the route through Xi'an and down from the north as the shortest, which I find a bit incredulous. But then I have also heard something about foreigners not being able to enter Tibet from Sichuan?
- return leg; I have read a lot here about how practical it can be to get your bike on the train and fly home, so the idea of only riding back to, say Chengdu, might be quite appealing after having weathered the storm. Has anyone tried to ship this connection of cities before?

I am starting to get excited about the idea of some snaking mountain passes, fresh air and scenic views, but I am aware that all that can fade quickly when things turn out differently than expected...

Thanks!
Mark

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You might find some useful information and insights from Buck and Amy's great ride of China - if you haven't already read it...

Hi Mblank
When you plan a trip we all have great expectations on how
many KM you can do in a day !! On my present ride I needed to ride
from Hainan to Thailand , checked all the routes and checked the total
KM on Google maps and I worked it out at 2400 km door to door!
So surly I can ride 12 hours with a average speed of 50 km = 600 a day!
Yes I said do that in 4 days !! but in real terms the distance was 2650 km
got loosed a few times, bad road works,rain so the trip end with 5 days
with 4 nights and I done very well and one day was in the seat for
over 18 hours , didn't take in or have time to stop to see the local
main attraction , but hope to stop on the way back. As other people has
posted please expect the unexpected ! when riding in china, a good
target for day riding is as posted by other members 300/350 km a day
or use the range of you fuel tank! as a daily target.
But the main thing is to ride safe and don't try to exceed your expectations.
Here are a few pictures

First the bike and load, had about 70 kg on the back.

Attachment 15677

Now road condition .

Attachment 15678

Attachment 15679

Attachment 15680

The good bits

Attachment 15681

More good bits

Attachment 15682

Attachment 15684

Attachment 15685

Could post 20 pages of the good bits

The ride back hopefully will be better as the 125cc YBR is now 150cc . With 10 kW and a massive 22 NM.
OE is 7 KW and 9.2 NM can't wait for the ride back now lol

:riding::riding::riding:

@bikerdoc: have you chosen?
we still are still in the paper processing time and I dare not to plan the October Holiday Ride

Hey Mark -

Sounds like a great trip! It looks like most of your questions have been answered - but to hit a couple of the others:

If you do a quick search on "Tibet" in the forums you'll find tons of information - but basically it's really expensive to do alone. You need permits and to arrange a guide - which is a vehicle that will escort you the entire time. The good news is if you want to experience the plateau you don't need to enter Tibet proper, but can ride through western Sichuan and southern Qinghai and experience Tibetan culture, cities, wildlife, etc. If you do want to go - you can hire a tour agency to arrange all the details. Last I checked, you can only enter from Qinghai - but the agency will have the most up to date info.

On GPS - you can get a Garmin for around 800 RMB on amazon.cn or at electronics stores. I'd recommend getting it mounted to your bike and wired into your battery for power. People use cellphone GPS too - but there's often no 3G in remote areas, so you'd need to download the maps ahead of time. I'd recommend an atlas too - you can get it at a bookstore or online. I find it easiest to plan with an atlas and then plug destinations into the GPS.

Tent and sleeping bag - even if you're not planning to camp, it's a nice insurance policy to have - but any town of any size will have hotels or basic truck stops (rooms with a bed) - and given how much ground you can cover on a motorcycle it's easy enough to route plan in a way where you finish the day in a place with a hotel.

Other stuff to bring: rain gear - waterproof yourself from head to toe and be able to cover your bags. Cold weather gear - including gloves, scarf - the plateau is cold.. I'd expect snow if you're there in October.

Shipping - I think it's safe to say you could ship the bike from any big city back to Shanghai. Train and truck are both options - I just shipped a bike via train from Tianjin to Kunming for 1800 and via truck from Urumqi to Kunming for 2400 (train was same price, but no guarantee on damage). Both places came and picked up the bike from my hotel and crated it for me.

Savor it - take pictures - and post a ride report!

Hey

Pat alerted me to this post, I haven't been on the site for a while...cheers Pat!


I'm off to base camp on August 9th, I've been planning this trip all year and it is an unrelenting pain in the arse! Riding in Tibet is already pissing me off and we haven't even left yet. All our permits and guide fees are going to cost around 25k, for your first trip I'd recommend doing something simpler. I will post more details about the whole process when I write the RR. If you want the name of a fixer/guide send me a PM and i'll hook you up.

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SabineHartmann

@bikerdoc: have you chosen?
we still are still in the paper processing time and I dare not to plan the October Holiday Ride

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yes, by default.
PM sent.
:thumbsup:
Back to regular programming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by futianshenzhen

Hey

Pat alerted me to this post, I haven't been on the site for a while...cheers Pat!


I'm off to base camp on August 9th, I've been planning this trip all year and it is an unrelenting pain in the arse! Riding in Tibet is already pissing me off and we haven't even left yet. All our permits and guide fees are going to cost around 25k, for your first trip I'd recommend doing something simpler. I will post more details about the whole process when I write the RR. If you want the name of a fixer/guide send me a PM and i'll hook you up.

Tom

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Sorry to ask but the 25k is that RMB .

Prince,
those pictures look pretty amazing. That sort of driving is what makes big trips worth it. How did your bike fare? Are the offroad tyres standard?

Pat,
thanks very much for the tips and information. I have thought about the Tibet part being somewhat fraught with red tape and additional expense, and considering dropping down into Yunnan once I hit Sichuan instead. I definitely never planned to go up into Qinghai on this trip, if that is what it takes.

In any case, I can play it by ear once on the road, and there will be plenty to see in any direction no doubt.

Lastly, I have just had my bike confiscated by the Jing'an police last Wednesday night (reason = Jiangsu plate). Now, I have heard from several people that have been stopped for the same reason about what happened to them, usually a fine, but none of that seemed to apply this time. I was as polite and apologetic as can be, and offered to pay the fine right there, but they said it wasn't an option. It needed to be impounded, and I could only get it back today... plus 3 points on my license.
Well, then I may have lost it a little bit and started pushing people, and now I may get it back in a few weeks... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mblank

Prince,
those pictures look pretty amazing. That sort of driving is what makes big trips worth it. How did your bike fare? Are the offroad tyres standard?

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Hi Mblank
Bike done very well bit down on power
and more so when I hit close to 2000
meters at some points ,yes the nobs come
as Standard on the bike and did I need
them at times lol , can't wait to do the
return leg as I have had the YBR modified
a lot in Thailand with the end result being
40% up on KW and over 100% up on
NM ! so it should be interesting to see
how the YBR profoums .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prince666

Sorry to ask but the 25k is that RMB .

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hey,

the total guide and permit fees come to 20k RMB, split 3 ways. that does include a hotel in Lhasa and a dinner.

sorry to hear about your bike mblank...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by futianshenzhen

hey,

the total guide and permit fees come to 20k RMB, split 3 ways. that does include a hotel in Lhasa and a dinner.

sorry to hear about your bike mblank...

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20k for how many days?