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Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Hi Everyone, I've been lurking on MCM for about two years now. I moved to China about three months ago. (Yantai, Shandong) I'm in the process of getting my license and intend to be 100% legal. As far as experience goes, I've been riding for around 10 years, 1 of those years in Korea. According to some, this puts me within the minimum amount of required riding experience to handle Chinese driving. And God, is it scary. Anyway, Getting my license is taking some time and I don't have the money saved up yet. It should be here in the spring. But, I've been shopping around and am wondering what people think of some of my choices so far.
What I am looking for:
-a 250 CC dual purpose. 250 is important as I want to go into the Golden triangle and getting a 250+ bike into Laos gets tricky.
-a wide backseat. My wife is going to be riding with me and she is far from an iron-ass. So the seat must be more than just a cloth wedge... you know what I'm sayin?
-able to offroad and able to do long distances. I plan on doing both.
-a large enough clearance between the front fender and the tire that mud doesn't get stuck in between.
I realize that short fender clearances tend to mean wedge-pillion seats. Maybe there is such a thing as a compromise? Maybe TIC and I should pick one or the other.
Beyond that, any general pointers regarding quality or things to avoid would be appreciated.
I've found a few bikes that catch my eye.
The Jialing 250GY looks good.
Zongshens RX3 looks super cool, but perhaps a poor track record?
I'm also a fan of shinerays options.
Does anyone have any recommendations? And thoughts? Experiences?
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
Rx3 without a doubt
Might want to consider the qingqi 200 or 250. Also going under the name pioneer.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
I've never really heard it's harder to bring a 250cc plus bike into Laos, are you limiting yourself on heresay or reality? I think you should really think about a Jialing JH600 if your buget allows, seems like the right bike for all that touring. :thumbsup:
Some people have the warped view that big (bigger bike than they have) bike equals death, and do everything to possible to steer people onto some commuter single, but the reality is larger displacement bikes in the hands of a prudent rider can be safer as they can get you out of trouble especially with cargo and a passenger, and are just more fun when the road allows. Also renting in Thailand is so easy and cheap, worst case senario you can stil ride the golden triangle anyhow.
Also don't limit yourself to a Chinabike just because they fit the 'dualsport' bill. The reality is a Jianshe Yamaha YBR250 kitted up with road/trail tires is a much more reliable and trustworthy 250cc companion than some cheapo Chinabike Honda copycat 'we couldn't be bothered to assemble it properly becuase we only care about money' machine. They just don't put enough effort into small domestic bikes, because the locals want cheapness not quality, and they deliver that in spades. For most Chinese guys a small motorcycle is just a stop-gap measure while they are saving up for mianbaoche.
Honestly if you find China riding scary, that's good for mental health, but to be honest in terms of safety that's the wrong attiude, you should be highly defensive and hostile. When you find yourself making dozens of calcualtions a second ready to give idiots a tonge-lashing you're ready to ride on the Chinese street. :lol8:
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Here is why the RX3 gets my vote.
Not a copy of anything
Four valve head
Good power
Injected
Two year warranty
Comfy
Stylie
Not too expensive
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
Not a copy of anything
Clearly a design influenced from BMW GS models.
Attachment 16593
and a reverse engineered Honda engine. So not really.
Also it's Chinese. It might be not bad, but I'd still prefer to re-purpose a YBR250.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
All the bits of plasticie will break off eventually leaving a rough diamond I reckon. Its so long since I saw a bmw out on the road I have forgotten what they look like .
not sure this engine is a copy , sohc 4 valve watercooled, copy of what ?
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VroomVroom
Might want to consider the qingqi 200 or 250. Also going under the name pioneer.
These bikes haven't been mentioned from you guys in China much. I do think they deserve a look.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
culcune
These bikes haven't been mentioned from you guys in China much. I do think they deserve a look.
This company are near me, in the next city. Maybe 10 or so years ago they got some new management and practically all worthwhile (to our mind) development was stopped and the company started to manufacture Peugeot Scooters and 125-150cc Suzuki badged scooters and singles. As far as I can tell their 250s were a half baked proposition until only a short time ago. Yes they are a good choice with the Suzuki licensed engines and match up pretty well in power to the YBR250 with actually dual sport models. They could have (and really should have) done all this ten years ago meaning that they are now heavily overlooked by the Chinese and expat community alike.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
not sure this engine is a copy , sohc 4 valve watercooled, copy of what ?
Honda NX 250 1989
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gal...NX250%2093.jpg| Displacement: |
249.00 ccm (15.19 cubic inches) |
| Engine type: |
Single cylinder, four-stroke |
| Power: |
26.00 HP (19.0 kW)) @ 8500 RPM |
| Top speed: |
128.0 km/h (79.5 mph) |
| Compression: |
11.0:1 |
| 70.0 x 64.8 mm (2.8 x 2.6 inches) |
| Fuel control: |
DOHC |
| Cooling system: |
Liquid |
| Gearbox: |
6-speed |
Transmission type,
final drive: |
Chain |
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZMC888
This company are near me, in the next city. Maybe 10 or so years ago they got some new management and practically all worthwhile (to our mind) development was stopped and the company started to manufacture Peugeot Scooters and 125-150cc Suzuki badged scooters and singles. As far as I can tell their 250s were a half baked proposition until only a short time ago. Yes they are a good choice with the Suzuki licensed engines and match up pretty well in power to the YBR250 with actually dual sport models. They could have (and really should have) done all this ten years ago meaning that they are now heavily overlooked by the Chinese and expat community alike.
The YBR would and should be considered based on its reliability..l just wish they would make a proper adv bike out of it at the factory! My guess it would absolutely take over the Chinese market!
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZMC888
Close but no cigar RX3 is single cam NX/AX 250 is DOHC engine as used by Shineray in the X2
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
Close but no cigar RX3 is single cam NX/AX 250 is DOHC engine as used by Shineray in the X2
OK, then whatever. But your ideas that the RX3, a good bike or in any way original is a seriously flawed proposition.
Up against genuine made in China Japanese technology an RX3 doesn't make much sense.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
culcune
The YBR would and should be considered based on its reliability..l just wish they would make a proper adv bike out of it at the factory! My guess it would absolutely take over the Chinese market!
Im with you on this one.
They should bring the XT250 Tenere to China. Its the same engine as YBR250 and since they already make them here it shouldnt be too difficult
http://www.yamaha-motor.com.mx/xt250tenere.html
http://www.yamaha-motor.com.mx/image...ere250_bco.jpg
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
they should and they could build the xt 250 in china
but they don't
As for the YBR 250 as an adventure bike, it needs a fair bit of work on the suspension front and rear as it has short travel and quite under damped for any kind of load.
Great engine though
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
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I've never really heard it's harder to bring a 250cc plus bike into Laos, are you limiting yourself on heresay or reality? I think you should really think about a Jialing JH600 if your buget allows, seems like the right bike for all that touring. :thumbsup:
I am going off of things I've read on the golden triangle website and on unlimited horizons. The evidence that I have that gives me the most confidence is this official(?) website regarding imports and exports into Laos. (http://www.asean.org/communities/ase...ty/item/laos-2) Near the bottom, it talks about about vehicles prohibited for import. Below that it mentions that all vehicles brought into Laos must have a temporary vehicle import license. I am assuming that the same restrictions apply to vehicle imports as to temporary vehicle imports. I have heard that that border is easy for larger bikes with one of those fancy Swiss documents that says you have prepaid any taxes or damages that may occur if the vehicle is somehow left in the country. Those, however, are pricey. Other than that, I can't get any solid sounding first hand accounts.
Does anyone have any information about the NEW Jialing 250GY designs. I look for images of them and those images never match the images on the website.
This is the image from the website.
Attachment 16594
I cannot find a single place where a jialing bike has that wide passenger seat. If I can find this bike with that seat, this would be my preferred choice.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Riding/driving Chinese plated bikes/vehicles across borders to (most) ASEAN countries is not that complicated. As an example MCM member Prince666 is today riding (for the second time this year Hainan-Laos-Thailand-Laos-Hainan) across the Boten border crossing (PRC-Laos) on his PRC plated YBR125GK. Actually he should be almost to the other side of Laos just about now, and I expect to hear from him later on this evening when he makes it into Chiang Rai (lucky bastard!). I was speaking with him around lunchtime today by phone when he was about 100km or so away from the PRC-Laos Bolten border crossing. If I didn't have as many commitments as I do at this time of the year, I'd be riding along too on my GS. However for now, I have to see another month through before I too make the longer ride from Ningbo - Laos - Thailand for a couple of months riding out of this madness.
The main issue OP is that PRC's increasing economic power makes it easier than previously for PRC plated bikes to cross many ASEAN borders (but not all) than it does for ASEAN plated bikes to cross into PRC. It seems that many of the ASEAN countries are so willing to jump on the PRC cash cow gravy train, they have seemingly sold their own citizens short when it comes to any reciprocity of arrangements. A PRC legally plated bike for example, can be ridden from PRC - Laos - Thailand and other bordering countries without major hindrance, provided the bike in question is legal. However, Thai legally plated bikes can cross into some boardering countries fairly simply however that does not extend to PRC without a prearranged (PRC government approved) tour guide, should the rider want to ride into PRC. One of the Thai border customs officers was complaining about this inequity and inequality earlier in the year, the complaint being that it was unfair that Ch!nese vehicles and drivers etc can cross from PRC through Laos into Thailand fairly easily, but not so for a Thai plated vehicle and driver wanting to do the reverse trip.
Aside from the border crossings...
The major issue I see is that there are not that many choices in the <250cc dual sport category, fewer if one really wants a bike of reasonable quality/manufacture. But each to his/her own. I'd also suggest sticking with one of Japanese JV partner companies products here, but few if any make a 250cc dual sport model, so you may have to consider a more road orientated ride and swap over the tyres. Still as stated, there are the inherent problems with limited suspension travel and ground clearances.
As has also been suggested, maybe you might want to consider a bigger displacement ride and open up your options and budget.
YMMV
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
modron
You and Culcune are absolutely correct, it's a no brainer. Also Sundiro Honda should be manufacturing the CB500 as well.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
As for the YBR 250 as an adventure bike, it needs a fair bit of work on the suspension front and rear as it has short travel and quite under damped for any kind of load.
Great engine though
I think if you are riding in China you're going to be 50% good tarmac, 30% potholed/smashed uneven and 20% lunar landscape. You can see with bikes like the YBR125K or G that they have the clearance, some road trail tires and maybe handguards and box paniers, you'd be fine. Sure ideally off road you could have more travel and if only and ideally a XT250 Tenere, but that travel just isn't needed 80% of the time, so buying a Chinabike with all the potential cheap parts and mediocre assembly is IMHO a poor decision. Many people have gotten pretty much anywhere on a YBR250, most of the time they end up dropping them because they use the original tires off-road, which is a pretty simple fix.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Alright. I'm convinced. I'll bite the Yamahook. But I'm a little scared about the price. How much am I looking at for a XT250 Tenere? (In RMB, and including the cost of importing and registering)
How bout a YBR250 Chinamade.
Next, how do I go about buying one of these pretties. Who do I talk to? How good does my putonghua need to be? Do I have to go somewhere to pick it up?
When it comes time to sell, will I get anything for it. I plan on staying here between 2-5 years.
BTW, I really appreciate all your advice on this.
Looking forward to reading more.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZMC888
I think if you are riding in China you're going to be 50% good tarmac, 30% potholed/smashed uneven and 20% lunar landscape. You can see with bikes like the YBR125K or G that they have the clearance, some road trail tires and maybe handguards and box paniers, you'd be fine. Sure ideally off road you could have more travel and if only and ideally a XT250 Tenere, but that travel just isn't needed 80% of the time, so buying a Chinabike with all the potential cheap parts and mediocre assembly is IMHO a poor decision. Many people have gotten pretty much anywhere on a YBR250, most of the time they end up dropping them because they use the original tires off-road, which is a pretty simple fix.
Agree on the percentages there but here is the thing...
You wont be fine on a Ybr because the first few times in the day when it tries to spit you off you will save it . 300 km and 10 hours later you wont save it and it will spit you onto the road, if you are lucky you will walk away cursing the shit shocks.
To the OP you will be shocked how much an XT250 would cost you too import. I would say you could then just go ahead and buy a new JH600 for less money. Not a bad bike as it happens but you originally asked about 250's.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
What about the Jialing the poster is also asking about? I remember when the founder of this site, 'CrazyCarl' did his ride on a Jialing 150, and filmed it for his documentary, it seemed to do everything and go everywhere he asked it. I know before he moved back, he was kind of tied in with Qingqi, and did several rides on a bike they loaned him. But as was mentioned, apparently their quality has gone downhill from about 10 years ago (which, ironically, included the time Carl was there and riding one of their enduros?!). I seem to recall mostly favorable, or all favorable, reviews of Jialing 150 enduros from the few posters who in the past few years have posted about them (including Carl), so would the 250 naturally be as reliable? Or have they had a major management change, ala Qingqi, the last few years?
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cryptographicide
Alright. I'm convinced. I'll bite the Yamahook. But I'm a little scared about the price. How much am I looking at for a XT250 Tenere? (In RMB, and including the cost of importing and registering)
How bout a YBR250 Chinamade.
Next, how do I go about buying one of these pretties. Who do I talk to? How good does my putonghua need to be? Do I have to go somewhere to pick it up?
When it comes time to sell, will I get anything for it. I plan on staying here between 2-5 years.
BTW, I really appreciate all your advice on this.
Looking forward to reading more.
The XT250 is not officially imported/distributed in PRC.
Buying and importing a XT250 Tenere into PRC? Hmmm buying overseas - easy, importing it... likely near on impossible to get it landed and officially passed through PRC Customs and then certified (CCC'd). Even if you could, factor it costing you 100% of the full MSRP from the jurisdiction of purchase. So the whole exercise would be cost double the purchase price.
Sorry to say but PRC is almost a closed shop for private imports, unless your employer has a import license that covers vehicles and you can find an agent to handle the complexities. I know as I've been down this road. This can change if someone you know has all the right connections (serious Guanxi). Plus it can depend on other factors such as the port of landing etc. Shanghai Customs are thought of as being more fair and reasonable when applying duties and taxes compared to other ports e.g. Ningbo - which apply duties to almost everything. Keep in mind that PRC is one country with many little kingdo0ms all administered differently. No one rule applies. What works here may not work there.
For the moment, importing a motorcycle which is restricted to brand new models with zero (0) mileage. Imports from anywhere other than ASEAN countries or countries of origin which have a FTA with PRC, receive 100%+ import taxes and duties. Hence why HD's, most Ducati's, BMW's made outside ASEAN cost at least double the equivalent in most other jurisdictions. MC's built in ASEAN countries attract approx 30-35%, and FTA countries are on a sliding scale down to 0% over time e.g. NZ.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
There you go then
Import a bike made in NZ and 0% duty to pay.
Oh no wait...
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
There you go then
Import a bike made in NZ and 0% duty to pay.
Oh no wait...
I wish. Very exclusive and limited production Britten motorcycle made in NZ.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
I think you can only buy the T-Shirts now
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
What about the Jialing the poster is also asking about? I remember when the founder of this site, 'CrazyCarl' did his ride on a Jialing 150, and filmed it for his documentary, it seemed to do everything and go everywhere he asked it. I know before he moved back, he was kind of tied in with Qingqi, and did several rides on a bike they loaned him. But as was mentioned, apparently their quality has gone downhill from about 10 years ago (which, ironically, included the time Carl was there and riding one of their enduros?!). I seem to recall mostly favorable, or all favorable, reviews of Jialing 150 enduros from the few posters who in the past few years have posted about them (including Carl), so would the 250 naturally be as reliable? Or have they had a major management change, ala Qingqi, the last few years?
This is great. I would appreciate any anecdotes or ideas about how the Jialing brand is currently. Does anyone know if they have the contract to produce honda engines? Is this a myth? Does that mean they are capable of created a bike of approachable (?) quality to a Honda? I'm not sure what it means when a factory in China makes another brands product? Do they apply typical Chinese practices but use the Japanese template or is the Japanese company heavily involved in the manufacturing process from beginning to end? Anyone have any knowledge about this?
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Shineray is offering a copy of a Yamaha Tricker with a 223cc Honda type OHC single.
http://img.newmotor.com.cn/UploadFil...6142975269.jpg
Good site to do some shopping
You can rent Honda Bajas in Laos, it probably be less trouble. There are RFVC 249cc engines in those and very common in Vietnam and Laos and real Hondas.
http://motoquest.smugmug.com/Destina...baja-250-M.jpg
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhu
You wont be fine on a Ybr because the first few times in the day when it tries to spit you off you will save it . 300 km and 10 hours later you wont save it and it will spit you onto the road, if you are lucky you will walk away cursing the shit shocks.
So according to you a Chinabike Zongshen has well damped shocks, but a Yamaha YBR250 has badly damped shocks? Hmm, I disagree, I suspect that the difference is just suspension travel. YBR250 is about 120mm travel and the Zongshen, not sure maybe 150-180 range. That suspension travel makes a more comfortable ride and faster ride over rough ground, I just can't buy that it has much to do with the situation. That is really all down to rider skill and tire choice.
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Re: Recommendations for a Dualsport bike
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cryptographicide
This is great. I would appreciate any anecdotes or ideas about how the Jialing brand is currently. Does anyone know if they have the contract to produce honda engines? Is this a myth? Does that mean they are capable of created a bike of approachable (?) quality to a Honda? I'm not sure what it means when a factory in China makes another brands product? Do they apply typical Chinese practices but use the Japanese template or is the Japanese company heavily involved in the manufacturing process from beginning to end? Anyone have any knowledge about this?
Jialing had a joint venture with Honda motorcycles. I doubt the Jialing motorcycle company use much Japanese manufacturing processes these days, but I would have thought that their power products division do. They currently have the right to manufacture some of Hondas branded power equipment such as small generators and power washers. Most of the small singles that you see manufactured by China brands came though Jialing, such as the CA/CMX/CB250 twin engine, the CB125 twin engine and a few others such as the CG125 engine. I think these designs were leaked by someone at Jialing and that is why Honda pulled the plug.
However the JH600 is a different engine, designed for them by someone else. But a JH125 is just basically a Honda engine, and not reversed engineered. That's why I categorize the bikes differently. So I have the lowest rung reserved for the likes of Zongshen, Shineray and Loncin who have gotten rich from basically just stealing other peoples designs, CFMOTO, Jialing, Haojue Qingqi have or had JVs or have paid others to design engines for them, that in my view puts them in a different bracket to the bottom feeder thieves.
You'll only get anything near a Japanese level of manufacturing when the company has a joint venture with a Japanese company and they are exporting the bikes. Lots of people buy Chinabikes and they really want to believe that they have bought the right bike. But honestly having owned plenty of both the Japanese bike makers are streets ahead, sure the Chinese are catching up, but there's still no comparison.
Bikes like the Zongshen look OK, maybe they actually are, but you can never guarantee that any bike will or wont be a lemon, it's just that the Chances with a Chinabike are just much more likely, especially in the first few months where something can fail, and then again after the first two or three years. A YBR 250 will probably do you over 10 years and have good resale over that time, a Zongshen might do 3-5 years and after a year or two depreciate badly. As far as I know a Zongshen RX3 is 20,000 RMB new and the YBR250 24,000. So you save 4,000 RMB, but the bike will have like 90% chance of having some kind of small problem in the first year, and then again in year two or three maybe game over, a YBR250 probably about 5-10% chance of anything other than a leaky fork seal or other very minor thing, then you add the depreciation, a properly kitted out YBR250 is an obviously better choice, plain common sense. Yes, you'll spend more and probably have 50mm less suspension travel, but it surely will be worth it.
If I were you and you have decided on a 250 (which I don't really think is enough power for two plus luggage) then buy a YBR250, put good imported road/trail tires on it, optional sump guard, optional crash bars, hand guards, a rack and hard paniers, you'd be perfect. Or a JH600.
What's your budget?
