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Was just reading through some old things and came across this seems like a Ninja 250R pre-2013 just rebodied interesting but never heard anything about it.
http://www.hisunmotors.com/VETTURINO...l#.VVUCvflVgSU
http://www.hisunmotor.com.cn/list-81.html
Attachment 17161Attachment 17162
It does look interesting. Same specs? :scooter:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennon
Power is a little down could be the injection system, quality or fuel octane rating for this reason. It wouldn't surprise me if it the older Ninja 250 design was sold.
It is possible. The original owner can earn $$$ and ensure some continuity by getting the new owner to purchase other items along the way. Keep the suppliers going too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennon
I would say it has the frame and engine of Ninja 250, not the induction system though. Hisun added EFI and in that could not attain the original performance specs.
The Ninja 250 evolved, from carbureted to EFI, in that consider the price differences between the Hisun and Ninja.
The 250 has evolved in most markets to either 300 or the 250SL the former twin is $1,100.00 above the Hisun price in the US.
The good people at Hisun should wake up, I wonder if they have even sold one of those in the USA?
Consider what Lifeng is doing with a 320cc twin that is not as nearly as good of an engine, theoretically it’s not as good of an engine as the actual real Kawasaki engine. Hisun is only offering the engine in one model?
If there was a line of models focused on that engine it do well, but only if they had a talented design engineer, unfortunately those seem to be rare…few and far between.
Then you have Bennche that claimed quality problems out of Hisun and solved that by checking them in a warehouse in Texas slapped them with images of a Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders and American Flags, they shot Hisun in the foot, it’s like a hurray for us but it’s also a fuck you to the supplier. Then you have the whole Megelli debacle, they lost the contract to OEM those.
I am not saying that Hisun should copy Lifengs models, what they could do is work with either Jiajue or XGJAO to develop models around the engine.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0_engine_8.jpg
Maybe they did buy a license from Kawasaki for the engines, if they did and in that are limited that make sense as to why they are holding it like it some precious gem. Zongshen is much more strategic, they sell their engines to everyone, getting them out into the markets is imperative, it lowers the costs of production and also quickly recovers development costs.
The Ninja 250R is still made for 250cc license markets such as Indonesia, Japan and others. To me the frame looks to be the 2008-2012 model Ninja 250R that started as carb only and stayed that in the states but was changed to EFI for other countries, I doubt it is running a Kawasaki EFI system even so some time tuning the injection and better fuel quality should bring it to that of a carb Ninja 250R.
I agree the design needs to be better Megelli is kicking about again would be cool to see this engine in a new Megelli sports bike would shake of all the bad deals of the previous Megelli bikes. As a motorsport engineer I would happily convert someones design into a model if Hisun would be interested in hiring me to do so.
Megelli is no longer associated with Hisun , they shifted production to Zongshen last year. Which makes sense, since Zongshen was already the OEM for the NC250 engine. Zongshen developed the EFI, with Delphi. They in return evidently got retail rights in China for the bikes, they sell them as a Zongshen Lighting and Thunder in China.
Megelli is working on its channels, their functional chain to the markets. Unfortunately the bikes got some bad reviews for quality and product support.
Some concepts…for the EX250
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...8134f51445.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...de78e6f364.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...55e13a3077.jpg
This one is my favorite...
to me its like a poor mans R9
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...b892db8d19.jpg
This one is interesting.
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...e31b43bd45.jpg
Looks like the ongoing changes made the bike less than what it should be. Not all changes will work if one does not test them in application.
The original Megelli concept has been around for so long I was 14 when it was first shown at the NEC Birmingham show, I was looking to get a 125 one when I was 17 but the bad quality had affected the supply so I ended up not getting one. I wish they had spent more time ensuring quality like CCW do would of been a better choice.
Attachment 17222
A good engine for those would be the KSR DOHC 125cc, for the EU Market. Maybe the people at Megelli could strike a deal with the people at KSR? They could get bikes as knock down kits from Zongshen and then configure them with their water cooled 125cc engine. Didn’t you say that KSR has a facility?
I think the standard 125cc is too weak an engine for that design, the NC250 is fine for it but will never garner any volume sales in Europe. If they got the 15hp six speed in those they would get more consideration, maybe the Austrian could refine them to the level of the KTM Duke and Yamaha MT-125?
KSR could co-distribute/support with Megelli and in that build a stronger retail network. Also it seems the people behind Megelli may have some access to design to production skills, KSR should not be married to QJ and or Kiska.
In Zongshen having production and also selling the models in China, they get the needed economy of scale, which keeps costs down per unit. In order to further that, there is a need for a suitable 125cc for all the EU nations, they all I believe are moving towards a common 125cc learner class standard.
Ideally having a retail network in each EU nation is the goal, which is a common interest for both Megelli and KSR. Also KSR should consider the costs of the 125cc production, they already have and strive to also attain a better economy of scale for it, that is what Zongshen did with its NC250, they sell the heck out of it and also use it in their own models, proliferation in the market wins in many ways.
The KSR is a QJ made engine it's got reasonable reviews but much like the Derbi/Aprilia 125 4 stroke engine revvy but not as torquey as a SOHC engine like the Yamaha. in regards to the KTM Duke 125 engine it looks nice but the quality is below what you would expect problems with fork seals, gearbox jumping out of gear and a fair few reports of the allows cracking on potholes not denting but actually cracking apart. Megelli used SYM 125's which are very low stressed low output engines possibly getting a Yamaha Minarelli engine would of been a better option many companies in Europe this engine "Rieju, Motorhispania, HM, Fantic, Beta and Husqvarna before the KTM takeover."
To afford a Minarelli engine and sell it on will be expensive a QJ engine range would be better having a suitable LC 125cc and 250cc singles and a 250-300cc twin engine.
From China the only relatively interesting 125-150cc engine is that of the CFmoto 150NK which was styled by Kiska the designers of KTM road bikes but this is a little low powered too comparably to the best 150cc bikes on the global market place.
And nobody shows interest to use late MZ's 125 cc engine seened on their new "Reichstyp"...
There may be a water cooled 125cc version in the works at Jianshe? Jianshe recently put their 150cc four valve into production. I cannot imagine that Yamaha would appreciate them selling any engine that was intended to displace the Mineralli sales in the EU though.
Is the MZ 125 engine made in Erzgebirge? Did MZ stop production? They went bankrupt in 2013.
The 125 market has been starved of new breakthrough. Maybe most manufacturers looking at other sizes where they can make more impact and sales
As I know, MZ doesn't make anything anymore, but certainly someone has rights and documentation for that preety contemporary engine. Even that is a commodity that can be sold on the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
IMO, that is long past time - 125 cc reached his zenith in late 80's and early 90's. That was era of faisty two-strokers without or with some not so strict limitations. Today "the thrill is gone" (God rest B.B.'s soul) - you got only lazy four-strokers with up to 15 HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC
The Mz 125 is a interesting engine it was updated a few times I remember a few years ago it had a new valve system developed and was placed in a Blata 125 bike under the Mz name. speak for yourself when I had a 125 in 2011 it was a Yamaha engine with a Keihin carb when the air restriction and ECU restriction taken out it produced 20bhp and when I big bored it the power was up to 26bhp.
Mz filed for bankruptcy a few years ago the market in Europe wasn't ready for the electric scooters they were producing and the development costs they were undertaken ultimately killed the company yet again Ideally if it was taken under BMW as a cheaper marque it could do well.
According to this report since 2011 has the Hisun 250 twin been produced I have seen a few things posted from South america of them being sold and for sale the report below is from France.
http://www.turbo.fr/actualite-automo...-250-chinoise/
There is a patent on the valve train.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennon
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080245325
Based off the RT125...Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...7959aa53b7.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...687f06bc85.jpg
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...9301406839.jpg
MZ manufactured a line of 125 cc four-stroke motorcycles using an engine that was designed in-house. The MZ 125 produces 15 bhp (11 kW) and nearly 10 lb·ft (14 N·m) of torque. It is a liquid-cooled, dual-overhead-cam design with four valves, high-voltage electronic ignition and an 11,000 rpm ignition cut-off. This engine was used in four models, all of which share a common frame. The frame is a tube-steel backbone with the engine as a stressed bottom member. Differences in the suspension, fascia, gearing, and equipment make the four models relatively distinct, despite the shared platform. All four bikes feature a six-speed transmission and dual disc brakes.
The base for the water cooled with a variable timing head, is the RT 125cc DOHC that is rated at 11hp.
That means there are two engine that share allot of components. I wonder what the cost would be to acquire them? That Blata frame is really good too and they seem to be hardly utilizing it.
I know word in English for this valvetrain - over-engineered.
Worm gear!? What it is, an hommage to old "Sunbeam" S7?
Jokers...
The Blata was a nice bike if under powered with the Czech designed AC engine I was tempted to get one back when I was 16/17 in the end when I got round to buying a 125 supermoto the reviews had killed them off from the UK market place.
Back to a Kawaki looking bike it seems like Jonway have copied the Ninja 250R/300R right down to the chassis but what looks to be a CB 350cc twin engine, now if this had the Hisun 250 would be nigh on identical. If made with the Hisun engine could be like the CFmoto 650NK a cheaper version of a Kawasaki bike and be used for cheaper track use.
Attachment 17244
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...ucket=5#detail
Blue Collar Bobbers is offering kit to convert a Ninja 250, great idea. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7362/...8c7cf8cc51.jpg
Here is a Link to them and their image gallery...
The complete kit cost only $1,400.00...
What is impressive is that they had a new housing manufactured of molded plastic for the instrument cluster, so you reuse the internal parts and wiring of the original.
It does look good and tidy for a kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH
Yeah they did a real good job, the kits come with videos that take you through it step by step.
If I had the capital I would contract Hisun to make a poor man’s version of the BMW R9. Based on the 2007 Kawasaki 250 Ninja.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...ad762b4174.jpg
Maybe a value for money kit rather than a poor man's version.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJH