Wuyang 五羊-本田摩托（广州）有限公司粤

August 25, 2015, Honda introduced its new sports models the CB190R, CBF190R.
11.7kw @8000 rpm, manufactured by Wuyang, market price:

16,700.00 CNY = 2,627.27 USD

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...nda_cb190r.jpg

CB190R
Vehicle length x width x height	1982 x 744 x1041	Maximum torque (Nm/RPM)	15/7000
Wheelbase (mm)	1356	Induction	PGMI-FI
Ground Clearance	138	Fuel Capacity	12L
Seat height	771	Transmission	5-speed
Engine	184ml	Front suspension	Inverted
Bore and Stroke	61*63	Rear suspension	mono
Compression	9.5:1	Front tire	110/70R 17”
Power	11.7kW/8000	Rear tire	140/70R 17”

This demonstrates how slim the profits are in the Chinese market. Honda took the 150 they already have in production and bored it out to 184cc. The bike is likely spirited and it is stylish, also fuel efficient. So they now have a new made in china flagship model and it only moved up slightly. They did what they can with respects to cost to manufacture and what the market will pay for the bikes.
China made people rich but were the industries per unit of production that profitable, I do not see that, I see high volumes and low unit margins. Sometimes the margins went negative and some loans were used to cover the cost to keep operating and also stocks were sold to do the same.
Honda uses real numbers and the prices of their offering are real market prices, they represent covering all real costs with full support and a profit per unit that encourages investment by shareholders.

I would not expect any new real growth in production out of china, I would expect inflation and a overhaul of many industries.

Holy cow. They gain about 25cc every 10 years!
If Suzuki can make money with a 250cc bike they could certainly build a CB250/CB300 or CB500 in China. Of course they would be mostly for export, but there would be a healthy demand in China as Honda is a pretty popular kudos brand and could possibly outsell the GW250 and YBR250. It's not about a slim profit margin in China, it's about lack of vision and an overly conservative attitude. The want to get rich but they don't really understand the market and they don't want to invest. Giving away market share to Indian and Thai manufacturing for no reason. I think they can match India for price and Thailand for quality.

If I was in control of Honda I'd be manufacturing a Zero SR type ebike based from a CB500 and have a CBR600 type ebike and hydrogen bikes in prototype with production due to start in China this year. I'd also already have been manufacturing CB250/CB300 and CB500 in China through Wuyang and Sundiro for years. More risky but what are long term profits going to be if you don't invest in the current market trends?

Price of a CBR300R in Thailand

133,000.00 THB

=

3,690.96 USD

Price of CBF190R in China

16,514.00 CNY

=

2,591.26 USD

The situation is that Honda already has a global production center for their current offerings. Most of the manufactures are considering Asian expansion, in that they choose the countries that offers them the most, China offers the least. Potential for domestic sales and unrestricted exports. The countries getting the most are Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam.
I would say the Thai sales are larger simply because they have no restrictions, it is better to be selling highly taxed Thai made into China, then highly taxed Chinese made into Thailand.
They set up second production centers in India, simply because India has higher domestic sales potential and also allows independent operation. India wins on independent operations, less restriction on riders, however they have high import taxes.
China is attempting to force investment, they also force the probability of losing that eventually to a competitive partner that the investor creates. Honda plays along, they import and into that and consumers pay the tax.

Price of CBR300R in China

36,497.00 CNY

=

5,726.86 USD

Price of GW250 in China

26,653.00 CNY

=

4,182.21 USD

I really doubt that the GW250 made in China global sales are as profitable as the CBR300R that is made in Thailand.

I just bought a CBF190R while out riding around with my wife on the Jialing, kind of on a whim, actually. I haven't picked it up yet from the dealer, but we got in unboxed and they're working out the license plate.

I did ride the demo one they had and it is a lot of fun... I will start a new thread with pics/videos/info once I get some seat time on mine. Now here's a question: Why doesn't Honda export the CBF190R to the States and market it as an alternative to the Grom?

I think it's gonna make a sweat little bike, anyway... here's a first glimpse, and I think it's quite stylish and sharp-looking:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...R/IMG_0393.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...R/IMG_0394.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...R/IMG_0396.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...R/IMG_0398.jpg

Not too bad, it looks nice, should be an excellent commuter.

Honda is working up for the release of the SFA 150 in India.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tesZzlDrMk

I am still unhappy with Honda.
I my opinion they should bring the CRF250L into the market.
My prediction is it would be a real good seller. And want one too!


Ok, i also take a 450 as L configuration :-)

You really think that a model with a 35” seat height would sell well into demographics that have an average height of 5’4”?

A real good size model for the North America demographic:
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...ster%20821.jpg
Problem is that in order to get the power to weight respectable you typically need to increase the displacement. You as the rider are a part of the formula.

Oh MJH .... you are right. For China we need mainly a 12 inch wheel configuration for the CRF.
.... or some super plateau boots :lol8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmAmzsjNHd4

If you are short and really want to ride a tall dirt bike you can, people do, just that not that many, most prefer to have their feet flat on the ground. Not all dirt bike riders are tall.

I see allot of manufactured models that are on the smaller side to accommodate the mean rider sizes and also typical ridding behavior/conditions across all markets.

In North America there is no filtering, the only passing that is going on is in an adjacent lane. Also most commuting is on the highway at speeds at or above 65mph, so small wheelbases are of no real advantage, they lose stability at higher speeds, if they are only single cylinder air cooled engines, they are less than ideal for most commutes. You do not have too many areas where you’re driving in a congested urban area like in most of Asia and parts of Europe. Take away the lane splitting and there is no real value for a small bike and commuting. It takes a bigger bike that is more stable at highway speeds, with plenty of power to get up to and maintain those speeds.

Was rather interesting how he turned the bike around on a penny :lol8: Never seen anyone do it like that :thumbsup: