Ni Hao, newb here

Hi all.
Been reading this forum for a while and today decided to join. I have no bike at the moment but am considering a purchase as i do miss my chances to blow out the cobwebs in the evenings or at the weekend.
Last bike in the UK CBR 1000F and i miss it so much, great in the twisty bits and a comfortable long distance ride.
Riding here in China can be a challenge with more crazies on the road than anywhere i have ever been (maybe with the exception of India.....oh and Paris!). i am considering a 250 up as i think anything smaller has enough power to get you into trouble but never enough to get you out.

I have ridden (borrowed) both imports and local bikes with various degrees of satisfaction during my time here, local bikes normally have less power and the bits fall off a little sooner than the imports but they are getting better, imports generally overpriced, hard to get parts for and you are more likely to get stopped by the boys in blue (maybe blue, or yellow, or whatever colour trainers the policeman decided to wear today) riding something they have not seen before.

First ride in China was a Susuki 125 rr sprot almost 20 years ago (no i did not spell it wrong, that is exactly what it said on the tank).
Now i am thinking of delving back in recommendations regarding reliability, safety, price, warranty, etc. would be welcome from people with experience of local bike manufacturers. Help on registering would be useful too. I have my license already.

I am located in Kunshan, Jiangsu province. if there is anyone also located around this area i would love to meet for a beer....i mean coffee. Kunshan is located between Suzhou and Shanghai for those that know China and for those that don't, its a fair walk east of Manchester.

Nice to have some new people on the site...so welcome!

Are you sure you'd really want a 250? Just that they perform in a bit of a car like way in terms of acceleration, so I find that if you have something with over 400cc you can keep clear of the cars much better, safer overtaking and getting away from the lights really quickly. Although there are some fairly nice 250s for fairly reasonable prices such as the Haojue Suzuki GW250. Also don't forget the Thai made Kawasaki Ninja 250 and its unfaired brother the Z250, import tariffs on those aren't too excessive.

Hello, hello!

Let's take note: one... more... Briton... :deal:

Oh man, it'll be a shock for you to downgrade from intercity bike to small calibre thumper. :icon10:

Get a 600cc or 650cc bike since you are used to CBR1000F. Benelli, CF Moto, and Jialing all have options that are not too bad. I went with a Jialing JH600 because I am fat, tall, and like dual sport bike riding position over a sport bike riding position. I am only thinking of selling the JH600 because I bought a BMW F800GS. You will be fine. Some very nice mountain road riding on the opposite side of Taihu lake from you. That is where I keep my bike as I hate riding in the rat race city of Nanjing. Shanghai is worse but you can probably skirt around the lake if you wanted to take a ride.

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the info. One of my mates has just ordered a Benelli 600 but i've not seen it yet so i will take a look at that. He has had a Honda 150 for the last couple of years and tried to sell it to me. He said it was very quick for a small bike but it's not, i have been on much faster 125 bikes. He will probably scare himself to death when the 600 arrives if he thought the 150 was fast.
I am not in any great rush to run out and get a new bike, i have done without one this long so i am sure i can manage for a while longer while i collect info and look around. Although i would love to get on one today as the weather is great. i know someone who got a Jialing 600 around 2011 or 2012, for the first year it spent more time in the repair shop than it did on the road and he got rid. I know a few owners and they are either sick of it breaking or singing it's praises as a great bike. Its seems a bit hit and miss regards to quality but i don't know anyone who has purchased in the last year or two and China build quality is getting much better.
If they are being recommended now they must have improved a lot.

What about second hand bikes? Does anyone know a place close to me where i can take a look?
Not really interested in importing myself. its not complicated and as was mentioned by ZMC888 the tariffs on small bikes are not that bad but it does put the dealer a plane ticket away if anything goes wrong.

Retro seems to be the thing now in the auto industry. You can buy a mini with modern upgrades, a beetle, etc, so when are Yamaha going to do a modern version of the RD350 LC (with either adjustable front suspension or at least a bit stiffer than they were to stop the forks bottoming out when you brake hard), that i would buy. Fast, perfect balance, beautiful and if you are so inclined very easy to tune.

Keep the advice coming, its all useful info.

There are several used rides (including mine) @ "Bikes for Sale-Classified" forum here on this site. I think Bikerdoc has a CF650 still for sale and there seems to be legal Kawasaki in Shanghai. I would caution one to stay away from those not presently licensed/registered.

There are a few dealers in Shanghai. You can find some information on some of them on Advriders dot com in the Asia forum.

Hi Aggie,
Shanghai plates are as expensive as the bike. As i live in Kunshan, not Shanghai, which is in Jiangsu where i would do most of my riding then i would prefer a bike with a Jiangsu plate. In Kunshan it is not possible to register a new bike so dealers will get it registered for you in some other district in Jiangsu (for a large fee), so a used bike with Jiangsu plates just seemed to be the easiest option.
i tried the website advriders dot com but it does not seem to be working.
I want to take a look at a few different bikes and if poss try them out before i make a decision so any info on dealers local to me of new or used bikes would be greatly received but i preferably want to stay away from Shanghai.

thanks for the info to date.

Sure, but the bikes I saw for sale on the forum in this website are all Non Shanghai "A" plate. I understand the "B" plates are not that expensive. My plate is Jiangsu "A", it is nothing like Shanghai "A" plates but still worth much more than the bike is. Good luck with the search.

You might try this sight for dealers....

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...al-etc.925334/

But the smaller bike is definately more maneuverable and easier to split traffic lanes-not like anyone on this site ever do that type of thing for safetys' sake. But I am not used to riding huge moto's personally. But I do like the nimbleness of my little 250. Just my 2 cents

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Originally Posted by TexasAggie

Get a 600cc or 650cc bike since you are used to CBR1000F. Benelli, CF Moto, and Jialing all have options that are not too bad. I went with a Jialing JH600 because I am fat, tall, and like dual sport bike riding position over a sport bike riding position. I am only thinking of selling the JH600 because I bought a BMW F800GS. You will be fine. Some very nice mountain road riding on the opposite side of Taihu lake from you. That is where I keep my bike as I hate riding in the rat race city of Nanjing. Shanghai is worse but you can probably skirt around the lake if you wanted to take a ride.

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Originally Posted by scratchndent

But the smaller bike is definately more maneuverable and easier to split traffic lanes-not like anyone on this site ever do that type of thing for safetys' sake. But I am not used to riding huge moto's personally. But I do like the nimbleness of my little 250. Just my 2 cents

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Not sure if that is the case because we would all ride a 50cc bike? around town, IMO it's all comes down to the rider and how he fills on a bigger bike in town.
For me I can get around city's quicker on a bigger bike (without side box's) then I can on a small 50cc.

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Originally Posted by scratchndent

But the smaller bike is definately more maneuverable and easier to split traffic lanes-not like anyone on this site ever do that type of thing for safetys' sake. But I am not used to riding huge moto's personally. But I do like the nimbleness of my little 250. Just my 2 cents

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Valid points for sure. My suggestion for 600cc plus was simply based OP's former CBR1000 experiences.

Whatever you ride, as long as it has two wheels, I applaud.

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Originally Posted by scratchndent

But the smaller bike is definately more maneuverable and easier to split traffic lanes-not like anyone on this site ever do that type of thing for safetys' sake. But I am not used to riding huge moto's personally. But I do like the nimbleness of my little 250. Just my 2 cents

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I've spent years on smaller bikes and on mid-sized bikes and I don't really agree with you. Maneuverability is down far more to bar and peg position than weight or engine size. For example trying to ride in a city on a Fireblade CBR1000 for me was an embarrassment, not because of the weight of the bike just because it puts you in a 'superman' race position, great for track leaning and knee downing low wind resistance but terrible for me in a metropolis, at least in my hands.

A well designed mid-sized bike like a CB400, ER6 or CB500 gives away very little or nothing in a city to the average 250. A GW250 has some balls but is just too weighty for it's size so you'd gain nothing in a city over a mid size machine. Although light YBR 250 is just a bit too gutless and the brakes too poor for there to be any overall advantage. For an intermediate or newb rider possibly the smaller lighter bike is preferable, but for a skilled rider the mid-sized is best overall. You can see the proven by looking at the bikes that London motorcycle dispatch riders use CB500s are the most popular bike.

Honestly, I think you're just using wishful thinking to make having a 250cc bike OK. The fact is the engine is less powerful, the brakes are weaker. The bike IS more maneuverable, but it's only by a tiny percent in the right hands. Mostly what is better about a 250cc bike compared with a mid sized bike is the new sticker price, fuel economy and the prices of spare parts. Although a Kawasaki Ninja 250/300 or Z250/300 is certainly getting nearer the sweet spot than a YBR250.

This is just my opinion after 20 years riding and riding and about 20 bikes.

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

I've spent years on smaller bikes and on mid-sized bikes and I don't really agree with you. Maneuverability is down far more to bar and peg position than weight or engine size. For example trying to ride in a city on a Fireblade CBR1000 for me was an embarrassment, not because of the weight of the bike just because it puts you in a 'superman' race position, great for track leaning and knee downing low wind resistance but terrible for me in a metropolis, at least in my hands.

A well designed mid-sized bike like a CB400, ER6 or CB500 gives away very little or nothing in a city to the average 250. A GW250 has some balls but is just too weighty for it's size so you'd gain nothing in a city over a mid size machine. Although light YBR 250 is just a bit too gutless and the brakes too poor for there to be any overall advantage. For an intermediate or newb rider possibly the smaller lighter bike is preferable, but for a skilled rider the mid-sized is best overall. You can see the proven by looking at the bikes that London motorcycle dispatch riders use CB500s are the most popular bike.

Honestly, I think you're just using wishful thinking to make having a 250cc bike OK. The fact is the engine is less powerful, the brakes are weaker. The bike IS more maneuverable, but it's only by a tiny percent in the right hands. Mostly what is better about a 250cc bike compared with a mid sized bike is the new sticker price, fuel economy and the prices of spare parts. Although a Kawasaki Ninja 250/300 or Z250/300 is certainly getting nearer the sweet spot than a YBR250.

This is just my opinion after 20 years riding and riding and about 20 bikes.

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250cc bike is OK, if it is enough for you. Bigger is not better, else some sort of 5000cc bike with an engine from a car would be the best. There is no "sweet spot" either. It all depends what is enough for you. The next bike I would buy would be 150cc. That is smaller than I have ever had, but I know it would be enough for me and get its job done. I know also a few people who think that 50cc is enough for them.

I have driven with street legal racing bikes and all between them and 50cc. Powerful racing bikes are fun if you can race with them. But if you can't, then they are not fun. They are boring and frustrating beyond words when driven according to normal speed limits. They are abused if driven like that, to say the least. No point to drive them outside racing tracks, if one is going to not exceed speed limits.

Some 700cc bike is annoying too because it pretty much asks more throttle all the time, and if you give it more, you notice it should have more power, which is annoying. It is easier to be content with small bike and just enjoy the no rush ride. Not saying rush ride would be bad, it is great fun too, but it is very dangerous after all and illegal too.

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Originally Posted by moilami

250cc bike is OK, if it is enough for you. Bigger is not better, else some sort of 5000cc bike with an engine from a car would be the best. There is no "sweet spot" either. It all depends what is enough for you. The next bike I would buy would be 150cc. That is smaller than I have ever had, but I know it would be enough for me and get its job done. I know also a few people who think that 50cc is enough for them.

I have driven with street legal racing bikes and all between them and 50cc. Powerful racing bikes are fun if you can race with them. But if you can't, then they are not fun. They are boring and frustrating beyond words when driven according to normal speed limits. They are abused if driven like that, to say the least. No point to drive them outside racing tracks, if one is going to not exceed speed limits.

Some 700cc bike is annoying too because it pretty much asks more throttle all the time, and if you give it more, you notice it should have more power, which is annoying. It is easier to be content with small bike and just enjoy the no rush ride. Not saying rush ride would be bad, it is great fun too, but it is very dangerous after all and illegal too.

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Sorry but I don't understand this opinion.
I can ride my 650cc bike exactly like a 150cc if I simply chose to open the throttle less, also I can maneuver my 650cc bike about as well as a 150cc bike in city traffic.

However if I need to use it I can use the massively more powerful engine to get out of trouble and the massively more powerful brakes to stop in an emergency. So for an experienced rider with a mature attitude a mid-sized bike is best.

However I still think it is better to build up to a bigger bike, from 125-250-500 and bigger from being a new rider, but to limit yourself because you think the 250 is more maneuverable is a mistake.

If someone told me I had to stick to a 250cc single cylinder bike I'd probably just quit riding (unless it was a 2 stroke dirt bike).

Cars do not need power steering, however in a parking lot it makes maneuvering allot easier. But once they are moving the power steering is not really needed. It is similar with motorcycles and with repect to size and maneuverability, size and weight, smaller and lighter is easier to move around, however at speed the maneuverability is a matter of the geometry of the design, a larger bike can be very maneuverable and responsive.
As for power it should be smooth and linear, from what I have read the new generation of 250-300cc bikes have that. I believe the new R3 has that, so does the CBR300. However as you move up into and above 500cc prices go up with that and so does insurance.
The thing is that all bikes have a power band, often many ridders stay under it, so if it is a 300cc or a 500cc up to that is not much difference, once in it the differences become apparent and in some cases not as different as you would expect.
The point of saying a 150cc is enough, would be a person that is not interested in the power, just the experience of being on two wheels. The 150 can get up to speed, it just that there is no power band, lots of screaming to top speed but nothing that would be considered a burst of power.

MJH explained things very well, just have to mention that I like the /motorized/ two wheels experience. I hate bicycling, it is a distraction which does not let my mind roam freely. Also need to add that small bikes are more forgiving. You can make a lot mistakes which will not be biggies as opposite with powerful bikes, for example, you can go full throttle and nothing serious happens, but with a big bike you can get rather wild uncontrolled wheelie ending into a bike drop.

Also small bikes cost less, can get a bit better MPG, insurance is less, parts costs less. They attract less thieves too. That's why WHAT IS ENOUGH is THE BEST for why pay more?

All those things being said, if I drive a big modern so called quality bike, it feels like I would be on a train. I like to travel in trains a lot, but I don't want to drive a train. Small crappy bikes are totally different, and I enjoy of that difference.

Anyway, no point in arguing here. There is nothing to argue. Each does have a subjective opinion on what is the best, which is good. When I was young I was in big and powerful is the best train, by the way. So very glad I am not in that train anymore! It is about the best, hehe, what has happened to me.

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Originally Posted by MJH

Cars do not need power steering, however in a parking lot it makes maneuvering allot easier. But once they are moving the power steering is not really needed. It is similar with motorcycles and with repect to size and maneuverability, size and weight, smaller and lighter is easier to move around, however at speed the maneuverability is a matter of the geometry of the design, a larger bike can be very maneuverable and responsive.
As for power it should be smooth and linear, from what I have read the new generation of 250-300cc bikes have that. I believe the new R3 has that, so does the CBR300. However as you move up into and above 500cc prices go up with that and so does insurance.
The thing is that all bikes have a power band, often many ridders stay under it, so if it is a 300cc or a 500cc up to that is not much difference, once in it the differences become apparent and in some cases not as different as you would expect.
The point of saying a 150cc is enough, would be a person that is not interested in the power, just the experience of being on two wheels. The 150 can get up to speed, it just that there is no power band, lots of screaming to top speed but nothing that would be considered a burst of power.

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Watch Japanese police doing a motorcycle gymkhana. You can see that in the right hands heavier big bikes even at lower speeds are highly maneuverable.
Also most riders on the street ride the torque band. Simply put more torque equals more fun. Smaller engines have less torque. Smaller bikes have weaker brakes.