Another China to Europe thread. How to prepare old"ish" bike for this trip

Hi everyone,

For last few years I was thinking of riding to Europe on a bike but never had the time. This year I sorted out my work and everything and the trip will finally happen. March 31st is my last day in the office and I dont have to go back there for next 5 months.
I will leave as soon as I can and go to Mongolia first, After riding there for few weeks Ill come back to China, pair up with another MCM user and together we will ride to Europe. I will be on my YBR250, he has YS250.

I thought a lot about getting a XTZ125 for the trip for many reasons. Mostly because its a better offroad bike and because my YBR is not so new anymore. In the end I decided to go with my old bike which has nearly 40k km on it, and this is why I started this thread. Id like to know what would you guys replace/change/upgrade/modified in this bike with this mileage. I have some ideas but it never hurts to ask

So far I have heated grips, windshield, hand guards, fake pelican boxes, power outlet, battery changed 3000km ago, chain and sprockets changed 1000km ago, oil, filters and sparks all changed when needed to be

Id like to replace the parts that might be worn, Im thinking of replacing cam chain, clutch plates, wheel bearings, rear suspension, cables.......

Is there anything else I should be thinking of?
Also, Id like to check the compression so if you guys know a good mechanic somewhere is Zhejiang or Shanghai please let me know

Cheers

From what I can tell many of the roads are not so great sometimes to deliberately force cars and trucks onto the Gaosu, sometimes because they have been smashed apart by overloaded trucks or they are being rebuilt. I remember one German guy who made the trip two years ago or so said that he wished he had put at least a road/trail front tire on the bike as he had a bunch of lowsides where the front wheel lost grip on bad road surfaces.

Yeah, Ill be putting this on
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/5...!!59735186.jpg

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Originally Posted by modron

Yeah, Ill be putting this on
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i2/5...!!59735186.jpg

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A wise investment esp on the front. If you can find a set in the right sizes, even better! :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by modron

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Also, Id like to check the compression so if you guys know a good mechanic somewhere is Zhejiang or Shanghai please let me know

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If can't find 1 , DiY https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=18999111369

Check every little electrical thingy on your bike... and take with at least one of each, as a spare... you know.

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

If can't find 1 , then DiY https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=18999111369

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What compression should this engine have? Google says that healthy engine should have above 120psi

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

A wise investment esp on the front. If you can find a set in the right sizes, even better! :thumbsup:

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I used a set before on my China trip and they were good. Lasted forever

Id like to put these on but they are bit cheap, better go with reliable

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Originally Posted by Zorge

Check every little electrical thingy on your bike... and take with at least one of each, as a spare... you know.

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Hence my question about a mechanic ;)


p.s. I forgot to add this in the first post. My bike is running a bit hot and we will go through some really hot areas. I want to replace my small (3 layers) oil cooler with a bigger one. like this for example
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/1...1029287864.jpg
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm..._u=79f03miebe1
The mod is quite straight forward I think. I will try to push the cooler high on the frame so it doesnt take air flow from the cylinder.
Are there any downsides of having a big cooler that Im not aware of?

The compression can be calculated off the compression ratio...

Firstly, good luck with your trip.

May I advise that you check the fluids in your shocks if you haven't already? 40k on a bike usually means a lot of abuse (in the right sense) so the shocks might want checking. Spring a leak in one of those and your handling goes to poop.

As for the extra cooling, it's a personal choice, but not one that seems necessary unless you're already having overheating issues. From personal experience an air-cooled engine at full chat through scorching desert managed to survive without any damage; a bike with more advanced cooling methods should not have a problem. But, as always with this kind of thing, go with your gut - if you feel you need it they you probably will.

Also it might be worth taking the bike to a bicycle shop (assuming you're in China) to have the wheels trued and the spokes tightened. Those are often over-looked during regular maintenance.

Aside from the obvious mechanicals may I advise you take photocopies of your documents? It is the case that some foreign authorities will take and withhold the real documents to extort bribes or deny the return of them for other nefarious reasons. If you are requested to provide documents handing over a photocopy for close inspection while holding onto the real article could save from some awkward situations.

May I inquire as to which route you plan to take to Europe? Russia (Via Mongolia & Kazakhstan into Europe) require specialist documents and the Middle East has its own well known problems. I ask from the position of somebody who would some day like to attempt this same journey.

Again, good luck.

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Originally Posted by MJH

The compression can be calculated off the compression ratio...

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Ref to shop manual http://www.comunidadmotoquera.com.ar...E_SERVICIO.pdf 3-16/17
Most mainland Chinese mechanic uses kg/cm². Minimum limit is 10.5 as in the pdf

Every bearing on the bike. Wheels, suspension, swing arm, steering head. Grease the shit out of everything.

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Originally Posted by humanbeing

Ref to shop manual http://www.comunidadmotoquera.com.ar...E_SERVICIO.pdf 3-16/17
Most mainland Chinese mechanic uses kg/cm². Minimum limit is 10.5 as in the pdf

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http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/at...id=18102&stc=1

Ill look for a mechanic with the gauge but if cant find will buy that thing and check by myself. thanks

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

Every bearing on the bike. Wheels, suspension, swing arm, steering head. Grease the shit out of everything.

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I will get new bearings, rear shock and linkage fitted so a ton of grease is already being delivered ;)

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Originally Posted by W3HS

Firstly, good luck with your trip....................................

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I thought about it long time ago but the mechanic I usually go to simply wouldnt do it cos its a long job and he is very busy haha Anyway, there is a new bike center opened up in my town so I will go there and check or I might do iy myself. Id like to replace/upgrade springs too but all I can find on taobao are these 40kuai springs which Im not sure are genuine. I know that the spring should be 480.4mm long but not sure of the diameter so cant really find anything. I might buy the above spring, measure it then send back and try to find some better aftermarket ones.

As for the photocopies I know its a good idea to have many and its also a good idea to scan your documents and put somewhere secure online.
I plan to go to Mongolia and then back to China as Russian visa is nearly impossible to get. Then Kirghistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan then cross the sea into Azerbaijan, Georgia Turkey and to Europe. Now this is a rough plan but that can be adjusted if needed ;)

"are these 40kuai springs". There fork springs and for $6.00 US I'd be very wary. Anyways You need to match the the fork springs with the rear shock spring. Ok you need to set your sag. Load your bike with all the shit your taking put your riding gear on get on the bike rest yourself against a wall or a mate then set/ check your sag. Go from there on what weight springs and valving needs to be.I'd say you will need heavy springs.

Ps If I'm replacing the cam/timing chain I would be doing a top end rebuild and checking the piston slop and what the barrel is like(probably pull the barrel off and see how the big end bearing is holding up as well). Thats just me though. I wouldn't trust any local legend Chinese mechanic to do this job though. Past experience has taught me they can't even do a wheel alignment and service on a car with out f### ing it.

or just get on the bike and ride the damm thing. Plenty of people have done that for many miles watch all the Chinese hop on crap bikes load beyond the max put new wife aboard and head home next month and most make it.Classic one is when they tie rope around tires and rims when they hit snow on the trip home to Northern China.Hats off to them.:thumbsup:

About those "electrical thingies" I mentioned: buy rectifier, CDI (or it is TCI on YBR?), ignition coil, starter relays, etc. and stuck them somewhere under the seat. Those you can not find easy on all of those "-stans" on your itinerary. Also, I think that some voltmeter (or some multi functional... "thingy") would be nice addition for instant observation of electrical system.

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Originally Posted by modron

What compression should this engine have? Google says that healthy engine should have above 120psi

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Those 120 psi are 8 Bar and change - too low. As "Humanbeing" wrote, 10,5-11 Bar is bottom line, but you can use "old school" trick to check worn of the cylinder/rings - do first measuring by the book, and after that, squirt some oil (lets say - 20 cc) through spark plug hole into cylinder, hit the engine start button for a sec or two and after that do another compression measuring. If these two results are significantly different (one Bar, for example), then... things are not ideally good.

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Originally Posted by modron

Are there any downsides of having a big cooler that Im not aware of?

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Of which you aware of? :icon10:

IMO, whatever you decide to do, you should use oil cooler hoses with the same type of fittings on both ends. Why? If cooler start to leak or one of the hoses bursts, you can simply make bypass with the good hose and cut off rest of the oil cooling system.

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Originally Posted by Zorge

As "Humanbeing" wrote, 10,5-11 Bar is bottom line

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1 bar = 1.0197 kg/cm² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_atmosphere

That... that is significant difference. :lol8:

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Originally Posted by Zorge

About those "electrical thingies" I mentioned: buy rectifier, CDI (or it is TCI on YBR?), ignition coil, starter relays, etc.

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I changed ignition coil few months ago when it was stalling in the rain, I will take starter relay as there is no kick start on that bike (or will replace before the trip). I will leave that bike in Europe (sell it prolly) so I dont need lots of extra parts laying around.

Going back to that cooling system,
I had a closer look at the radiator and there is no way to install a bigger one without taking some airflow from the cylinder. Is it ok for the engine to cover the cylinder partially? Im thinking, whatever benefit Ill get from bigger radiator Ill loose overheating my cylinder.....is that so?
Im talking about something like on the pic here
https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/2...!!25665657.jpg

IMO, it doesn't matter when you fitted brand new ignition coil, some relay, rectifier or something else. If something of aforementioned details suddenly breaks in the middle of nowhere, because of being exposed to a moonlight, exhaust fumes of Klingon's "Bird of Pray", delicate cobweb on a wheel spokes, or some other better or worst reason - you will lose your hair almost instantly. I would take with me those vital parts on a such a long haul.

About oil cooler: it looks to that you have more than enough room on a "YBRahim" to fit pretty big chunk of "honeycomb", just above exhaust port, in front of the frame. That way, nothing would interfere air flow to the engine's head and at the same time, cooler will get his portion of the cold air. Only lack I see is cooler's vulnerability - I would make some sort of sturdy frame/crash-bar/guard for the cooler oneself. So, you attach this contraption on a frame, oil cooler on a contraption and drop your bike as much as you like - cooler will stay intact.

Or you can fit one or two oil coolers sideways, also with mandatory guard.

I wouldn't waste my time with an oil cooler. I've given this pitch before....

You should run oil like Spectro Platinum 4 Full Synthetic 15W50 Oil @ USD$18.00 per liter. Or some other insanely expensive MOTORCYCLE oil designed for air cooled engines.

http://www.spectro-oils.com/platinum-full-synthetic/

I think your YBR250 needs 1.5 liters. Your trip will probably be about 15-20,000 Kilometers. If you change the oil every 5000~7000 Kilometers, you will only need 6 liters of oil for the entire trip. If you follow this plan, you will make minimal oil changes and be assured of having high quality oil.

Get two of those 1 Liter MSR fuel bottles, carry 2 liters of oil with you (don't carry it in plastic bottles). This will give you extra for topping off if your bike burns a little, which is not at all uncommon when you are pulling long rides day after day. I've also seen people lose a few cc's from tip overs etc. It also gives you one complete oil change if something happens. You're going to need it later on anyway. Purchase a couple of high quality oil filters and don't forget to purchase the o-rings and crush washers that are used when doing an oil change.

Oil Change 1 - At home the night before you depart.
Oil Change 2 - Western side of China. Send the oil ahead via post and have it waiting for you.
Oil Change 3 - 5000 Kilometers after change #2. (This is that change of oil you have been carrying)
Oil Change 4 - Upon arrival in Europe at a reputable shop.

Lot's of people I know seem to enjoy changing their oil every 3 days at pikey little shops as they meander across China. Don't do it! It wastes time, you never know what you're going to get for oil, and the more often you change, the more likely the chance something can go wrong. Read the ride reports here... people have had MAJOR problems with stripped oil drain bolts and over/under filling.

Air Filter:
Brand New the night before you leave.
Remember what I said about sending oil to western China? Send a brand new air filter with it and change it.

Chain:
Get brand new OEM sprockets. Don't f*^& with gearing too much. You're probably going to be slightly overloaded, so taller gearing for highway speeds is not going to help things.
Spend ¥800 ~ ¥1000 On the most insanely awesome Tsubaki X-Ring Chain you can get. Put it on the week before you leave and adjust it the morning you depart (check alignment!). If you keep it lubed correctly, you can probably make it all the way to Europe without another chain adjustment. Yes, you read that correctly... Maybe 1 or 2 chain adjustments the entire trip.

Buy 2 cans of super awesome chain lube NOW, you won't find it on the road. Carry one with you, send the other to western China with the oil and air filter.

So let's re-cap. There are 5 things you really need to worry about on a long trip, and the route you're traveling is not going to have a great selection of quality replacement and maintenance products. A huge chunk of your trip is going to be crossing China, so why not freshen up your bike at the Western border.

#1 Tires & Tubes - I would ride China on one set and change at the western border. I even cary a little baggy of grease for the bearings and axels in case you change the tire or remove for a flat.
#2 Brake Pads - If you get high quality EBC/SBS/Ferodo etc. you can probably make the whole trip on one set. I would carry a set for the disk on the bike and send a set of rear shoes to western China.
#3 Chain & Sprockets - A high quality set will last the entire trip. Every evening as you approach where you're going to stay. Stop, lube the shit out of the chain while it's hot. Let it sit overnight. Lubing a cold chain in the morning is not as effective as hitting it when it's warm and letting the lube work its way in.
#4 Oil & Filter (plus o-rings and crush washers).
#5 Air Filter - A clean air filter will help prolong your oil changes.

Perform all these maintenance tasks by yourself at home. When you're done, notice all the tools you used to do it, this is a good start on what you should carry for a tool kit.

TL/DR (Too Long Didn't Read) = Buy very expensive high quality parts to start with, they will save you time and money. Find a place you can send a "freshen up" package to in Western China and plan a day of maintenance before departing the country.

Cheers!

One other handy tip... Check your cables and buy an extra set. Zip tie the extras onto the existing cables. If you break a cable, the replacement will already be routed in place and all you have to do is connect it. Also saves room in your luggage.

A few comments to compliment what's been mentioned above; China had a great network of prepped mechanics so if you speak Chinese you can get in with the club and those guys stick proper parts. Don't touch oil unless you know the brand, 40rmb Castrol seems like a good deal until it's completely burnt out 500km down the road. A heavy weight 20-w40 Motal or Repsol (~140rmb) will give you a good 3k without issue. The problem is that it's only found in 'real' garages' which are hard to find without proper knowledge.

Every time you change your oil make sure to grease the chain and check your tyre pressures. There's no need for fancy chain lube, you can just slap a load of engine oil on the chain for good measure.

High altitude plugs are a lie, it's the carb needle that upgrading at altitude. I've bought into triple header spark plugs before and they really don't make too much difference at all; we're talking thousands of km of latitude and standard plugs run fine. It's the carb that you should attend to.

If you have any serous issues feel free to email me@ sjskerr@gmail.com for in particulars.

I do apologise if my English is poor or I've missed something because I'm on a very slow phone and I'm slightly drunk due to Bowies death.

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Originally Posted by W3HS

There's no need for fancy chain lube, you can just slap a load of engine oil on the chain for good measure.

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No No No .... That is one of the worst possible things you can do to a chain. The used engine oil contains all kinds of contaminants that quickly destroy o-rings and the rollers. That little bucket of used engine oil with a paint brush sitting outside every rinky dink moto shop is a chain killer.

My 3rd world back up plan for no chain lube... go to a truck stop, get some heavy duty GREASE, smear the chain completely. Ride for 15 minutes, pull over, wipe the excess off.

Cheers!

New word for today - "Scottoiler". :icon10:

BTW, no one fitted some full chain guard on bike like YBR? This thing and grease are "winning combination". :riding:

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Originally Posted by ChinaV

No No No .... That is one of the worst possible things you can do to a chain. The used engine oil contains all kinds of contaminants that quickly destroy o-rings and the rollers. That little bucket of used engine oil with a paint brush sitting outside every rinky dink moto shop is a chain killer.

My 3rd world back up plan for no chain lube... go to a truck stop, get some heavy duty GREASE, smear the chain completely. Ride for 15 minutes, pull over, wipe the excess off.

Cheers!

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+1:thumbsup: good chain lube is a must ??? sorry to ask W3HS are you Thail ??? because i am in Chiang Rai just now and i have seen how you guys work on bikes not much better then the Chinese yes bettter but JUST ??? IMO

"Look after your chain, and your chain will look after you" ??

Old engine oil contains nasty carcinogens and teratogens (eg dioxin). Avoid skin contact. If its very used it can also be acidic and cause corrosion when mixed with water, which can happen on a chain.



P.S. After reading some of your post and it seems you are not Thail so please forgive me my wrong but with a remark like

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There's no need for fancy chain lube,you can just slap a load of engine oil on the chain for good measure.

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you just sounded like one of them Thail famer I see on their Honda waves LOL

Thanks ChinaV for taking the time to write such an informative post.
It would be awesome to be able to replace oil after 6-7k km but I recon its impossible on my bike. Even when I used most expensive 15w50 Motul oil, my bike started to complain at about 3-3.5k km, is Spectro oil really twice as good to double the intervals? . I My bike does run a little hotter then it used to. I probably am going to stick with changing the oil cooler though I noticed the way the tubes are attached to the engine is a bit funny and Ill have to find a way to attach the ones from taobao.
However, didnt have time to dwell on this much as am trying to sort out the legal issues. I hit the wall contacting customs about documents Id need to leave the country and enter again. Nobody seems to know in my little town, they are busy drinking their green tea and posting selfies on wechat.

Their is a friend of a friend in Urumuqi to whom Ill be sending tires and some other stuff. I remember reading on MCM that Urumuqi Yamaha center is nice and helpful so I will visit them for sure. I recon Ill need a check up after Mongolia.

Nice tip about the cables, Thanks.

@W3HS
Thanks for the info on carbs. YBR250 is fuel injected so no problems here. It does run like a 50cc scooter at around 3500-4000m ;)

Modron, do you need more "things to thought about" concerning your journey? I'm convinced that forum folks can collect buck or two by giving their two cents. :mwink:

What you mean by "the way the tubes are attached to the engine is a bit funny"? As Chris Rock said - "ha-ha funny" or "this milk tastes funny"? What, fittings are not common?

Two more issues that no one mentioned so far: fuel filter and inner tubes.

What kind of fuel filter/s you have on YBRahim? It seems to me that you'll need really good filters, because no one can guarantee you that you'll fill your bike with decent gasoline in some God-forgotten gas station in some of those #####-stans. I believe that it is not so easy to tamper with clogged EFI as with carb is. Plus, it would be good to find out what is the crappiest gasoline YBRahim's EFI system can digest - in ex-USSR countries you can find RON 76 or 80 gasoline.

Are YBRahim's stock tires tubeless or with inner tubes? I any case, take with you set of matching inner tubes. Also, patches, tools and even can of tire sealant wouldn't be a "dead weight".

BTW, did you checked so far is it all OK with injector, pressure regulator, pump, fuel lines and all those sensors - 40k kms is decent mileage.

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Originally Posted by prince666

sorry to ask W3HS are you Thail ??? because i am in Chiang Rai just now and i have seen how you guys work on bikes not much better then the Chinese yes bettter but JUST ??? IMO

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I'm in Thai for the next few days, yeah. Have been here for 2 years and had a proper mechanic see to my bikes, not one of the guys by the roadside. Luckily I had* a belt driven scooter for much of my time here and only had to replace that belt after 15k.

My comment about using old engine oil on the chain is what I had to do before finding any proper lube in China while on the road. It wasn't until the bike had already done 20k that I was able to get some proper spary-on stuff. Still, the chain managed close to 50k before the bike went into retirement.

*Had. Had a nice little scooter until a local cut a corner on Tuesday night and we hit head on. So long scootercycle. :(

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Originally Posted by W3HS

I'm in Thai for the next few days, yeah. Have been here for 2 years and had a proper mechanic see to my bikes, not one of the guys by the roadside. Luckily I had* a belt driven scooter for much of my time here and only had to replace that belt after 15k.

My comment about using old engine oil on the chain is what I had to do before finding any proper lube in China while on the road. It wasn't until the bike had already done 20k that I was able to get some proper spary-on stuff. Still, the chain managed close to 50k before the bike went into retirement.

*Had. Had a nice little scooter until a local cut a corner on Tuesday night and we hit head on. So long scootercycle. :(

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Sorry to hear about the crash hope the rider is ok , just one of the problem we encounter when riding in Asia...... next time you find yourself in China and need a good Chain lube just shop on Taobao.

Much better then old engine oil.

What part of Thailand are you based just now

W3HS
Hope you are ok


Zorge
Thanks man. I will be updating this thread as I go along with all my preparations. Will got to the technical details later as they are usually easier to solve.
I have a problem on a legal front now.

I want to leave China to Mongolia, then return, go ti Xinjiang and then leave again. The officials told me I need an ATA which is a Carnet. This thing being a Carnet, I recon, is very expensive. Im not sure yet how much it costs but from what Ive found its USD250 and a deposit of 150% of the value of the bike. Now, I can stomach 250bucks but if I get ATA here (Zhejiang) I probably will have to claim my deposit in Zhejiang too. Im not planning to come back to Zhejiang after I visit Mongolia.
Is there another way to leave and reenter the country on a bike?
I know many of your ride out and in. prince666 and bikerdoc you guys always ride between China and Thailand. What paper do you get?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by modron

W3HS
Hope you are ok


Zorge
Thanks man. I will be updating this thread as I go along with all my preparations. Will got to the technical details later as they are usually easier to solve.
I have a problem on a legal front now.

I want to leave China to Mongolia, then return, go ti Xinjiang and then leave again. The officials told me I need an ATA which is a Carnet. This thing being a Carnet, I recon, is very expensive. Im not sure yet how much it costs but from what Ive found its USD250 and a deposit of 150% of the value of the bike. Now, I can stomach 250bucks but if I get ATA here (Zhejiang) I probably will have to claim my deposit in Zhejiang too. Im not planning to come back to Zhejiang after I visit Mongolia.
Is there another way to leave and reenter the country on a bike?
I know many of your ride out and in. prince666 and bikerdoc you guys always ride between China and Thailand. What paper do you
get?

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Hi

For Loas and Thailand only bike documents and Chinese DL is needed ! I will be takeing the same route as you back to the UK in June this year with 2 Chinese riders we are getting a Carnet to be safe but the cost is only 50% deposit to be held as security for the bike so in our case with the CF650G cost US 54,000 Rmb we need to leave about 27.000 rmb + the cost for the document .
Sorry I can't give much more detail on this matter as the 2 Chinese guys are sorting this out now back in Shandong , but if you need further details I can find make a call and find out more for you.