Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Zongshen makes a clone of them called the Rapido, but not sure if they are available in China? There are a few videos of the clone on youtube, but most are from what appear to be Thai online magazine. The Chinese company TMEC has just released what appears to be the Rapido here in the US, called the Denali 125FX. Not sure if they buy Zongshen knock-down kits and assemble them as their own brand, but I am pretty sure they are not 'stealing' Zongshen's Rapido outright, as I have a few years old TMEC 200 enduro which features a Zongshen engine, meaning I know they have worked with Zongshen in the past, and still sell the TMEC 200 with the same 200cc Zongshen engine today.
The distributor's site show the TMEC's MSRP as $1599 which is about half of a Grom's price. That makes a lot of sense to me since I, or many others, could purchase one for cash, while the Grom makes sense for Honda (and new buyers) at $3k purchased most likely on a loan.
http://www.sunright.net/linhai-scooters/denali-125%20FX
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
The cheaper price of the Rapido does make it worth considering if the engine mounts are the same, since then you could swap in high quality aftermarket parts made for the grom. But honestly I prefer quality and would be willing to pay a bit more for a genuine Honda product, having owned many genuine Honda products in the past and can attest to their durability.
Since the grom was such a hit, Kawasaki has got in on the action to with the Z125.
https://world.taobao.com/item/527403....b8LaTr#detail
It's about the same price and spec as the grom.
Maybe next year we could even see an offering from suzuki or yamaha.
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RyanDuke390
The cheaper price of the Rapido does make it worth considering if the engine mounts are the same, since then you could swap in high quality aftermarket parts made for the grom.
All those Chinese so called "small bore" horizontal engines (50-110 cc) are "Honda" clones, so engine mounts are the same, and those same engine mounts were kept on "big bore" horizontals (125 and bigger), regardless of engine design/component layout. Of course, rest of the big Japanese four also makes engines with horizontally orientated cylinders and possibly different engine mounts, but as much as I understand, they are not widely popular among Chinese moto manufacturers.
So, buying genuine "Grom" or some Chinese clone (or any other mini with horizontal engine), you are not limited to "Grom's" aftermarket parts. Just take a peek at some pit-bike forum and you will be amazed how big is aftermarket offer for those horizontals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RyanDuke390
But honestly I prefer quality and would be willing to pay a bit more for a genuine Honda product, having owned many genuine Honda products in the past and can attest to their durability.
Don't worry about durability. Even assorted Chinese made parts will be good enough, not to mention those who come from Japanese performance parts factories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RyanDuke390
You currently live (and ride) in China? Right?
At least, there you can find "assortment" of minies (compact bikes with 12-13" wheels). For example, "Motrac" offers interesting bunch od minies - http://motracmotorcycles.com/
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Skyteam also have their own version of Grom:
http://www.skyteammotor.com/Motors/Urban/
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Krasi
It is possible that Jiangsu Sacin “Skyteam” manufactures the Motracs minis, however that website from Queens Garden is a distributer’s site. They have more than Sacin’s manufactured models listed on it.
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
A Thai Honda MX 125 Grom retails for about $1,800.00 in Thailand. That is its primary market
Copies of it sell in China for around 7000 RMB.
If a list of who sells a similar design in China was created it be a long list and so would after market parts.
Also altering off originals, like dropping in a high output engine in most countries makes it no longer street legal. For example in the US the engines are sold but for racing, only because some some people race tiny bikes. If you get caught with one that is modified on the streets they can confiscate it and the crime is falsification of registration and a felony in most states.
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MJH
A Thai Honda MX 125 Grom retails for about $1,800.00 in Thailand. That is its primary market
Copies of it sell in China for around 7000 RMB.
If a list of who sells a similar design in China was created it be a long list and so would after market parts.
Also altering off originals, like dropping in a high output engine in most countries makes it no longer street legal. For example in the US the engines are sold but for racing, only because some some people race tiny bikes. If you get caught with one that is modified on the streets they can confiscate it and the crime is falsification of registration and a felony in most states.
In Taiwan the groms are registered by VIN number only. For some reason they do not put imported motorcycles engine numbers on the registration here, only Taiwan made products get the engine number put on the registration card. So swapping in say a Thai performance 235cc 4v finbro engine putting out 27hp is not problem here, even if pulled over. Most likely most readers could give two sh&ts but who knows might be good to know if coming to Taiwan.
In China I have noticed a lot of electric Grom clones. Those seem to be semi-popular and not all that uncommon.
I still remember seeing the first mini, it was the KSR 110 in Thailand.
But interestingly enough I learned of one most people haven't heard of,
and it's pretty much one of the best mini's out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY0uRNIaGaA#t=119.161
The KSR 80 was a two stroke, making it lighter and more powerful.
It looks like a blast to play around on.
Attachment 18386
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Mini bikes have been around for a while, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Minibikes
That is why I refer to them as a cyclical fad, the Chinese are jumping on the band wagon and nearly every manufacture makes one.
There are manufactures in China making high output horizontal engines, those engines all of them have potentially short lives.
There was a member on the site that used to race them TB for tiny bike.
Buying a real Honda and then pulling the engine seems like a waste, its the engine and PMFI that makes it better. Do they use the EFI or do they use a carb on the race engine, seems a good way to learn mechanics and part of the fascination with the minis is in that cheap and lots of parts that are not always cheap but relatively speaking much cheaper then what it would cost do the same on a full size race bike.
As far as the engines and swapping, the problem is when and if you get caught speeding or worse an accident, because under scrutiny you default to ridding an illegal vehicle.
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MJH
Mini bikes have been around for a while,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Minibikes
That is why I refer to them as a cyclical fad, the Chinese are jumping on the band wagon and nearly every manufacture makes one.
There are manufactures in China making high output horizontal engines, those engines all of them have potentially short lives.
There was a member on the site that used to race them TB for tiny bike.
Buying a real Honda and then pulling the engine seems like a waste, its the engine and PMFI that makes it better. Do they use the EFI or do they use a carb on the race engine, seems a good way to learn mechanics and part of the fascination with the minis is in that cheap and lots of parts that are not always cheap but relatively speaking much cheaper then what it would cost do the same on a full size race bike.
As far as the engines and swapping, the problem is when and if you get caught speeding or worse an accident, because under scrutiny you default to ridding an illegal vehicle.
I know the original Honda monkey bikes have been around for ages. I think the first new age mini bike was the KSR 80.
For some reason that one went under the radar, and a few made it to U.S. shores to be legally plated. (limited production?)
Then when I was in thailand the KSR 110 became a big hit, still no plated KSR 110's in the states at that time.
What did become popular around that time in the states where all those illegal to ride on the road pocket rockets.
It seemed like everyone and their mom jumped on the bandwagon a bought one, and everyone and their mom had one confiscated
for riding on the road since they never met road legal specs for being to small to see on the road.
Finally Honda did a mass produced, road legal, in showroom floors mini and it created a big cult like following of owners in the states.
It was what everyone wanted but waited about 10 years for after the disappearance of the short lived ksr 80.
So I guess in the states the grom was the first new age mini to make it after the original monkey bike.
Asia kind of did it's own thing, and Thailand got spoiled with street legal KSR 110's around 2005.
Why didn't Kawasaki make a U.S. street legal spec of the KSR 110 and export at around that same time?
That is the million dollar question I have yet to figure out.....
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
The popularity is primarily Asian and it’s likely rooted in their real needs for affordable daily transportation. They also have Kei cars and trucks.
Suzuki made the RV in the 1970-80 and then reintroduced it again in 2003.
Then there were the ST Honda that came to the US and Canada as a CT.
They were all street legal motorcycles, real popular with campers most often seen strapped to the back of a bumper on an RV.
Real sales numbers are considered proprietary, however all motorcycles are annually registered in each state and the MIC compiles numbers each year, and they call it the motorcycle population.
MIC is a Not-For-Profit that sells that report each year, stands for the Motorcycle Industry Council. The results of that should be the bible for stating sales statistics however we rarely see real detailed numbers out of that report. What we get is marketing manipulation and lots of subjective comments as Grom sales could be causing the loss of scooter sales in the USA? My guess would be that the MCI cannot identify Chinese scooter sales in its data, or nobody is willing to report on the sales?
Anyway there are copies of the original Honda minis sold in the USA and all made in China.
http://www.pitsterpro.com/bikes/list/cat/6
A company called SSR will be offering a model made by a company called Yingang.
http://www.ssrmotorsports.com/news/w...-1-768x885.jpg
This company is planning on selling five versions of minis, one of which is electric.
http://motracmotorcycles.com/
The list of manufacturers in China making minis is a long list.
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
MX 125 with 150cc engines.
Wonjan
Dayang
KSR 110
Yingang
Kayak
there are more...
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
The TSR 150 grom clone is being sold in Taiwan with an upgraded 250cc engine.
Pretty interesting.... about 2000usd but only for offroad : / not sure it's license-able here...
http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21523673244773
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
TSR is an aftermarket supplier, for some reason your link does not work for me?
It’s the same scenario swapping out engines, they get registered with the stock engine and swapping is at your own discretion…you can buy engines that shares the same mounting points for either horizontal or vertical engines.
By the way the 250 are really 223cc and offer about 17hp. It’s the engine in the CRF230 Honda.
Re: Honda grom 125/MSX 125
If I was going to get a Chinese made mini bike with 12 inch wheels I think I would go for the Lifan KPmini.
I have heard that Lifan quality is pretty good, and long lasting. Can anyone else confirm Lifan bikes durability?
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=...r.1.0.0.yhpZA8
