Two flat tires, need help picking new ones...

So I hit a nasty pothole *hard* and blew both tires.

There's a series of small bridges that are about 1 meter too high for the road of which they are a part and the road rises up to meet them at a relatively steep angle. Local civil engineering being what it is, there's also nice square edge of concrete which stands 2 cm proud of the bitumen where each bridge abuts the roadway.

It's always been that way. It's clearly visible and makes for a nice bump. I drive over it several times a week in both the car and on the bike without issue. And the Duke 390 soaks up bumps like a champ so no need to slow down below the allotted 60 kmh.

Unless... the pavement has broken away, exposing a 5 cm square edge of concrete. Which is of course obscured by traffic that can comfortably straddle the broken pavement. So I hit the square edge, at speed, and my Duke now needs new sneakers.

The wheels appear to be ok.

The results:
Attachment 18835Attachment 18836

So now that you've read my tail of woe, gather my mychinamoto brothers and bestow your China tire wisdom upon me...

I've needed a more trail capable tire, but my bike came with perfectly good Conti Sport Attack tires and I wanted to see where they could take me. They actually did great on hardpack, but they can't handle any moisture off pavement and no loose stuff.

Stock tires were Conti Sport Attack in 110/70 R17 and 150/60 R17
Rear Rim is 4.00" wide

I've been looking on taobao and tmall. This being China most of the great tires aren't readily available. I wanted a set of Pirelli MT60 RS, but everyone in China seems to be out of stock on the 17" front tire with no ETA.

The other options I have found on Taobao are:

Pirelli Scorpion Trail, Pirelli Scorpion Trail II, and Metzler Turance NEXT all in 120/70 R17 and 160/60 R17

And of course Cheng Shin Tire (CST) in 110/70 R17 and 140/70 R17



Pirelli Scorpion Trail
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...ucket=2#detail

Attachment 18837



Pirelli Scorpion Trail II
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...4775211429&f=e

Attachment 18838



Metzler Turance NEXT
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...ucket=2#detail

Attachment 18840



CST
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...a-d11f39262d50

Attachment 18839

I've searched fairly thoroughly in these sizes and this is all I could come up with in China for mixed use Road Trail tires. Are there other sources? I want to get back on the road ASAP.

I'd go with either of the Pirellis, I'm not sure that the Metzlers are even available looking at the web. Go with the pattern you like best, and stick with the original sizing numbers if possible, some people advocate going wider, but if the original engineers chose a width why 2nd guess them?

I use the Metzeler Tourance next on my GS for 2nd time and am satisfied with it.

Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L07 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZMC888

...and stick with the original sizing numbers if possible, some people advocate going wider, but if the original engineers chose a width why 2nd guess them?

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Unfortunately none of the majors make road-trail tires in my stock sizes. So let the second guessing begin!:icon10:

Only the CSTs are optimal from a sizing standpoint, but I feel from reading on here the rubber and tread will only offer middling performance.

I know the larger tires won't take the optimal shape when mounted on narrow wheels resulting in a smaller contact patch and thus grip at extreme lean angles, plus they're heavier, slower to turn in, etc.

I think the wider heavier tires might be nicer off-road, more stable, protect the wheels from rocks, and add just a bit more ground clearance.

Supposedly, the profile of the Tourance NEXT is steep and narrow offering quick turn-in so it might be the best compromise.

Also Metzler rates the NEXT 2/5 for gravel and trail, whereas Pirelli markets the Scorpion Trails as "Road" only in the US market, "Road" and light "Off-Road" in global markets

The Scorpion Trail II is the better of the two Pirelli's (improved wet and wear), but the original Scorpion Trail is the only one I can find in the official sanctioned retail channel in China. So availability alone may decide it.

Just a heads up. After reading through several forums. Most 120/70/17's will fit the Duke 390. That really opens up the Dual Sport tire availability. You can also fit a 160 on the back with out issue. I know when I was looking at tires almost nothing came in the 110/70/17 front tire. Everything seemed to be 120/80/17 or fatter.

That being said I was thinking about going with the Pirelli MT90's when it comes down to changing mine out. They were on taobao last i checked.

Did you mean Pirelli MT60? I don't think MT90 has any sizes close enough for the DUKE. In any case, my advice is to purchase ahead.

The MT60 was my first choice, there are several listings but nobody actually has the front tire we need in stock, not even Pirelli China. No ETA either.

Similar for the Scorpion Trail II, active purchasable taobao listings, but the sellers don't actually have my sizes instock and don't know when it would ship. Its a bit maddening.

Scorpion Trail and Tourance NEXT are instock, but I realized the NEXT listing was for 150/70 and I want to see if they have 160/60 before deciding. Waiting for them to be back online in the morning.

Did you check with the shops in Hong Kong? Most of them have ways of arranging delivery in China now. Be careful on going wider, it actually makes the bike handle worse in many off road conditions.

No, I hadn't thought of that. Do you recommend any shop in particular? Is there a better way to find/contact them other than start calling HK distributors?

Regarding wider, I don't have much choice. Is it better to go taller instead?

Say to go from 150/60 R17 to 150/70 vs. 160/60. +15mm seems like a big jump in diameter for the 150/70 vs. +8mm for the 160/60

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mot

No, I hadn't thought of that. Do you recommend any shop in particular? Is there a better way to find/contact them other than start calling HK distributors?

Regarding wider, I don't have much choice. Is it better to go taller instead?

Say to go from 150/60 R17 to 150/70 vs. 160/60. +15mm seems like a big jump in diameter for the 150/70 vs. +8mm for the 160/60

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I've never had a problem going up one size on height, but it's hard to say without seeing the clearance on your bike. The other negative effect of the taller tire can be more lean on the kickstand when parked. The place I always got my stuff in Hong Kong was Sanwa. They have a small shop at the Zuhai track so they would usually drop my tires there for me.

Thanks! Clearance isn't an issue for either size and I'd like more lean on the kickstand.

I was more concerned about the change in gearing/acceleration, cornering ability due to side wall flex, and wheel RPM for ABS function.

My underlying assumption was that I need to balance the change in both front and rear. I have no choice in front tire sizes. I am stuck moving to 120/70

To that end, going from:
110/70 to 120/70 in front is 10mm wider and 9.1% increase diameter
150/60 to 160/60 in rear is 10mm wider and 8.8% increase in diameter

150/60 to 150/70 in rear is 0mm wider and 16.7% increase in diameter

Does anyone/everyone still think going taller in the rear instead of wider is the better choice?

Tire availability is in...

I can get a pair if the Pirelli Scorpion Trail with the wider rear 160/60 for 1550 RMB

or I can get a pair of the Metzeler Tourance NEXT with a choice of rear 150/70 or 160/60 for 2200 RMB

Here are the judges' scores from Motorrad's tire match-up in 2013:
Attachment 18841

The Tourance NEXT won the competition overall. The Scorpion Trail came in fourth due to weakness on wet and wear tests, but offers marginally superior dry grip.

I rarely ride in the rain, but I haven't tried to tour yet. The difference in money offsets any difference in wear.

Anecdotally, the Scorpion Trail may be better off-road and the Tourance NEXT may be more "nimble" due to the profile which may help offset the effect of up sizing.

Which would you choose? Any comments vis-à-vis rear tire size?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mot

Did you mean Pirelli MT60? I don't think MT90 has any sizes close enough for the DUKE. In any case, my advice is to purchase ahead.

The MT60 was my first choice, there are several listings but nobody actually has the front tire we need in stock, not even Pirelli China. No ETA either.

Similar for the Scorpion Trail II, active purchasable taobao listings, but the sellers don't actually have my sizes instock and don't know when it would ship. Its a bit maddening.

Scorpion Trail and Tourance NEXT are instock, but I realized the NEXT listing was for 150/70 and I want to see if they have 160/60 before deciding. Waiting for them to be back online in the morning.

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Indeed, I fail (cries) Yes the MT60's

What they look like on the duke:
http://www.ktmduke390forum.com/forum...i-mt60s-2.html

If you do find a place to have these shipped to you let me know. I would like to switch to these. I really wanted the metzeler Karoo 3's but I don't think they have the correct front tire size. So sad...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mot

Tire availability is in...

I can get a pair if the Pirelli Scorpion Trail with the wider rear 160/60 for 1550 RMB

or I can get a pair of the Metzeler Tourance NEXT with a choice of rear 150/70 or 160/60 for 2450 RMB

The Tourance NEXT won the competition overall.

---

None of those tires look like they will be great on wet mucky clay and construction roads. I was thinking something a little more aggressive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asymptomatic

Indeed, I fail (cries) Yes the MT60's

What they look like on the duke:
http://www.ktmduke390forum.com/forum...i-mt60s-2.html

If you do find a place to have these shipped to you let me know. I would like to switch to these. I really wanted the metzeler Karoo 3's but I don't think they have the correct front tire size. So sad...

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Will do. Note there are two versions the MT60 and the MT60 RS. The RS is what everyone carries, but it is a soft sticky compound. People reporting of having to replace the rear within 1,500 miles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asymptomatic

None of those tires look like they will be great on wet mucky clay and construction roads. I was thinking something a little more aggressive.

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That's what your Shineray is for :icon10:

Agreed on the clay, but as usual I'm forced into the same TIC compromise that led me buy the DUKE instead of a real adventure bike.

I haven't encountered any serious mud or deep sand. That requires a true knobby tire. Even the MT60 doesn't stand up to wet clay. The Continental TKC80 is the only knobby tire with our sizing, but it's too aggressive and I would burn up the knobs on the tarmac.

Something in between like the Karoo 3 would be nice, but that requires different wheels or a different bike.

The stock street tires got me through gravel, grass, bare dirt, light mud and light sand, these can only be an improvement.

What about the Shinko 705 DS tires? They have the right sizes and looked like good reviews on a few forums.

Attachment 18842

Or if you do want something more street the Shinko SR 880's?

Attachment 18843

As far as the wet clay goes, Changchun is always under construction. Every other road has clay from them digging up the roads strung out across the road. If not that then they filled in a large section of the road and never black top over it so it is just hard packed clay which is real slick after rain. Then I also have tons of roads that are dirt and gravel mixes that I ride down every week. Those are also hell on my continental tires in the rain.

Shinko 705 rear tire review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtp-wMlhS18


PS My Shinray does not run...yet

Shinko? Youtube? :beerbust: TIC

Seriously though, yes I like them, but if they're available here I don't know where to buy them. On Taobao there's a single used Shinko 705, same for Conti TKC70, and TKC80. No Shinko China distributors or website when I searched.

If I am being clueless, somebody clue me in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mot

Shinko? Youtube? :beerbust: TIC

Seriously though, yes I like them, but if they're available here I don't know where to buy them. On Taobao there's a single used Shinko 705, same for Conti TKC70, and TKC80. No Shinko China distributors or website when I searched.

If I am being clueless, somebody clue me in.

---

Um I have a vpn router, i forget about stuff being blocked.

Front

https://world.taobao.com/item/535637945744.htm#detail

Rear

https://world.taobao.com/item/44442403136.htm#detail

I see at least 30 links for the tire on taobao

What sorcery is this?!

Shinko as far as the eye can see! Your taobao even looks different. I've never seen world.taobao.com. It's much less of a cluster and shows the USD conversion too.

So my problem appears to be search terms... ”Shinko 705 摩托车轮胎“ returns that one used tire. Searching just "Shinko" returns a bunch of unrelated crap with a couple of odd ball tires buried in there. Searching "摩托车轮胎" alone or with sizes returns pages and pages of tires but no Shinkos.

Also somebody is going to have to school me on getting unfettered access to the outside world. I'm not sure what's ok to discuss in a public forum, but... My connection gets throttled to zero within seconds. Two different services. Its automated, the ports I am using get closed. I gave up long ago.

world.taobao.com takes US credit cards too!

120/90-17 that's a super tall front tire... jumping from 74mm stock side wall to 108mm. I don't think will clear the front fender will it? It's actually a even a bit taller than the upsized 150/70 rear tire.

In fact, that 120/90 is a rear tire. I'm not sure about running it on the front.

...and bias ply construction too.

I am confused, that first link I sent you was for a 120/70/17. So that tire should be fine. It says front tire right in the picture.

The second was for a 150/70/17 rear. Had several options on taobao though so you should be able to get a 150 or 160/60/17

Attachment 18846

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mot

What sorcery is this?!
Also somebody is going to have to school me on getting unfettered access to the outside world. I'm not sure what's ok to discuss in a public forum, but... My connection gets throttled to zero within seconds. Two different services. Its automated, the ports I am using get closed. I gave up long ago.

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First of wall... What VPN do you use? Who is your ISP?

The best isp for leniency and using a vpn seems to be China Unicom. I have tried at least 5 isp's now and they seem to be the best.

Next, get a good VPN like express. Yes it costs more but significantly improves your life experience. I have tried everything. Viper, smart, pure, nord etc... nothing compares to the quality of express vpn. If you do get it, let me know. If I refer you we both get a free extra month.

With those two things I get about 15m down and 3m up and everything is available. Without vpn though, my connection is 50m fiber.

The next thing you can do is change to a good Korean DNS, I have the best luck with Korean DNS's. US and Chinese DNS's seem to lag terribly.

Feel free to shoot me a message if you have trouble with that sort of thing. I am happy to help sort it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asymptomatic

I am confused, that first link I sent you was for a 120/70/17. So that tire should be fine. It says front tire right in the picture.

The second was for a 150/70/17 rear. Had several options on taobao though so you should be able to get a 150 or 160/60/17

---

It's me that was confused. I went to the Shinko Korea site to look at the sizes and specs, thinking it would be the most comprehensive.

120/90 was the smallest 17 inch tire they listed, so I went back to the open taobao window to confirm the size and apparently flipped to the wrong one. In my excitement I had too many pages open.

http://www.shinkotire.co.kr/02produc...ode=AA00050044


The Shinko US page lists more sizes including the 120/70 front and further clarifies the 120/90 is front/rear tire. I am just having dumb luck.

http://www.shinkotireusa.com/tire/705-series

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asymptomatic

First of wall... What VPN do you use? Who is your ISP?...
Feel free to shoot me a message if you have trouble with that sort of thing. I am happy to help sort it out.

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Thanks for the info! That would be a massive increase in my quality of life.

Viper and Private Internet Access, China Telecom. 50M fiber similar to yours. If there's one thing we have out here in the sticks it's fiber. It's a mangled rats nest strung from house to house, but it works.

Ended up with the Pirelli Scorpion Trail due mostly to price and availability. Very little experience, but so far I am impressed with the wet adhesion. I presume due to high silica content.

To park at home I must ride up a semi slick granite slab that serves as a "bike ramp" to clear 5 stairs. The intention of course is to push your bicycle up and down the ramp as you walk alongside on the stairs.

If there's any moisture you'll bust yourself attempting to walk up or down the ramp itself. The neighborhood kids make a sport of it. The electric scooter spins all the way up. My Duke's stock Conti Sport Attacks required a good rolling start and would still slip the rear enough to scuff the tire all the way around. The Pirellis just dug in and climbed right up the wet ramp, no discernible slip.

I might try the Shinkos next time if I find I need more off-road capability, but even the most glowing reviews were qualified with "great tire for the price". Unfortunately the Shinkos are priced like a premium tire here。

Round and Black:

Attachment 18912
Attachment 18910
Attachment 18911

I also installed a USB power port:

Attachment 18909Attachment 18913