Almost ready to open a dealership

Well guys, for the past few years I have been working towards opening a 2wheel dealership in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I've spent so much time networking, researching, riding, and writing business plans that I feel the time is at hand. I have an opportunity to rent half of an existing motorcycle shop that is two blocks from the Harley Museum near downtown. The price is right and the location is great. The focus will be service, storage, used bikes and some new sales.

We will need bargain Chinese bikes to sell as Milwaukee is a very frugal place Cruisers sell best here and Johnny Pags bikes will be one of the first considerations. For scooters, we will test some SYM (Tiawan) and JCL (China). And I'm not sure yet who to get Enduro/Motard/Street from yet.

I like the Shineray, Galaxy, Pitster, Qlink, etc. higher end stuff, but will consider Loncin, Zongshen, Jialing and others as well.

So...here comes the big question for all of you. What US availible street legal enduro/super-moto would you choose and why???

As you would expect, Chinese bikes are not very popular here in Harley-Town, it will take some work to improve the current mindset. Conversly, the economy has forced people to live with less. Also, 2wheel commuting is seriously on the rise...despite our harsh winters.

Thanks in advance for your insights.
PJ

gpPeej,

That's awesome news! I hope you've kept some kind of journal about the things you've gone through starting your business as I'm sure it's already been an interesting journey.

What models/maker you choose to fill the categories will be an interesting decision. Are you looking to import or buy from a distributor/importer?

C

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Originally Posted by gpPeej

So...here comes the big question for all of you. What US availible street legal enduro/super-moto would you choose and why???

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gpPeej,

Being a recent C-moto purchaser I am happy to offer my opinion, I am in Sydney but the USA and Australia are quite similar.

The main reason I bought a Chinese bike was the price. I was able to get a brand new super motard street-legal bike just a touch over $3k (AUD) ride away. That is below the price of similar second hand japanese bikes.

I was happy to buy a chinese moto because I like the idea of them, they have character and are a good opportunity for someone who has no mechanical know-how to get in and mess around with the bike without fear of losing re-sale value.

But, if the price had been more then I would have likely bought a second hand japanese bike. And that is a risk you will face in the USA. There is an active market for second hand japanese bikes, so if you get in Chinese bikes that are priced above that point you might struggle to move them.

Love our bikes as we do, there is a stigma attached to chinese bikes with regard to quality and that can be enough to push customers away to the perceived more reliable japanese bikes.

At least if you are selling a mix of both you can have the options available to them - "here is a 1998 Honda XR250, or you can have this galaxy 250 for only a little bit more" - could work quite well.

Thats my 2 cents. Good luck with it mate.

Marty.

I hope you don't mind me reproducing here an article that I have on my data on Chinese bikes in general. It's not mine, so I don't know if it's fair or not, but the author seems to know what he's talking about and it may help your new business to know this sort of thing. Let me know what you think:



CUT THE CRAP
THE TRUTH ABOUT CHINA WHOLESALERS AND FACTORIES

OK guys, lets cut the crap and get down to facts. We’re going to give you the nitty gritty on China importing and you should actually be paying for what were about to give you here for FREE.

There are Three types of organizations looking to use China as a way to make money selling UTV’s

Dealers and Wholesalers who want to buy directly from China

Dealers who buy from US wholesalers who are buying from China.

Consumers who buy samples directly from China

All three are dead ends but most have not thought it through enough or do not have enough experience in dealing with China to recognize the trouble they are headed for.

The biggest problem for both groups are that things will go well for 6 months to a year, but it’s inevitable that wether you buy China direct or through wholesale companies like Roketa, Qlinkmotors or fast global souce, at the end of the day, you're trying to sell a product that is manufactured by China factories that offer no rules, contracts or protection for those buying from them. In other words, the factory will sell to the wholesaler, but if they get a call from a dealer, they will sell to them also and even worse, if the customer calls them, they will sell a sample at a price cheaper than either the wholesaler or dealer can afford.

This means that you’re going to spend 9 months getting pregnant with a product that you or anyone trying to sell it to you can control. The worst of it is that once your good and pregnant with a few containers of machines and spare parts, your going to begin seeing your UTV’s on eBay for a couple hundred more than they cost you. Now who’s going to want your stuff.

IF THEY DON’T HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE – DON’T BUY IT

Every week we get a few calls about China nightmares. First off if you go to sites like Alibaba.com, GlobalSource.com or Importers.com your going to find lots of UTV’s that look good in pictures but actually are junk. If you really pay attention you will discover that the same machine is being sold by 20 different companies all pretending to be the factory when they are actually just a little broker or Trader as they call them in China. You can not know the difference without actually getting on a plane and going over there. After about the third guy takes you to the same factory, you will begin to get the idea. It’s actually humorous because you will find that the factory will play along and act as though the trader is the owner. Three owners later you begin to realize that something’s up. This is just the game they play.

In some ways, the factory likes it this way because most traders will lie steal and cheat to get a sale which yields them about 5% of the purchase. The factory wants to be at arms length so they don’t mind a few lies or misrepresentations. (Ever try to return a container back to china?) This is a ton of money in a country where the average person makes less than $5.00 a day. An even bigger problem that is becoming more common is for the trader to have you wire money for your samples or first container and then disappear. In most cases this is enough money for them to live on for years. The temptation is too much for many. Recently we were called about a company, Wellboom motors, which also has three other names they go by but the owner is from Taiwan and his name is Murray Lyn. All we can say is there are a lot of people looking for their money from this guy. who has ads all over the china import sites

Here, let us make it easy for those of you who still want to roll the dice in the China market. For the most part, the majority of the machines coming out of China are crap. They come from companies like TNS Machine, Feiya, Xin Yang, Kinroad and Tongli. All these companies are in the Zhejiang Province in Southern China. These are most of the factories that US wholesalers like Roketa or SUNL buy from. There are some better factories but it wouldn’t be right to give you all the parts of the puzzle. Were talking about years of learning all this the hard way and your getting it in one 10 minute read.

The bottom line is that whether you’re buying from the China manufacturer direct or a wholesaler, if they do not have an exclusive like perhaps Joyner or Ruesch Motor Company and a few others, you are investing in a product that will be sold directly to your competition across the street or as said before even your customer, however, the eBay guy is the worst.

This is the advantage of dealing with professional companies like Polaris, Yamaha or Kawasaki. They own their product, they control the retail price and, they protect their dealers with area protection. The problem is that they are very expensive to get started with and most the markets are already called for. This is where Joyner and Ruesch have really found their niche. Two seasoned companies that have figured China out, and are having their product manufactured exclusively. They aren’t for everyone because they actually have rules like the big boys but the protection they offer is priceless.

Be careful out there. What looks like a good opportunity all too often turns into a container full of junk in a hurry.

For more information on doing business in China email us at INFO@UTVIndustry.com

:lol8: We should all get together and write a book called "1,001 ways to not answer a question." :lol8::lol8::lol8:

:icon10:
CC

CCarl, yes, my journal is more like a file drawer. I don't want to import, but I do have some projects that I'd like to work directly with manufacturers in the future.

KMart, I totally hear you. That's why used bikes is before new sales in my list. We have no shortage of used bikes here. Also, most Big Four moto-dealerships turn away work on bikes that are 15 years old. It's common practice. I'll take that work. Now...here's the interesting thing, new riders and bike buyers are often torn as to ride the easy scooter or cooler motorcycle. They are comparing products across product lines. They are comparing apples to oranges. For example a Vespa LX50 cost about the same as a Kaw Ninja250. A simple new 150cc scooter and 200cc motocycle are similar prices but different complexities. I just need to provide good options and help them find their path.

And Forchetto, yes, yes, and yes. Any real brick and mortar dealarship needs exclusive territoy to thrive. The "New Brands" are just filler. People who opened shops with flimsy hopes pinned on flimsy brands were not doing their homework. And believe me I've searched through all the brands that give(and honor) exclusive territory. The opportunity comes from servicing the discarded customers of those failed efforts.

Now, what bike?

PJ

gpP,

As far as bikes go, you know I'm a fan of the QingQi/QLink 200's because of their DR200 heritage. Lots of people on this and other lists around the world have them and seem to be generally satisfied despite some minor quibbles here and there. In the motard version, I believe their seats are lower than the Pitster Pro (Galaxy???) motard, which could also be a tough competitor to the QingQi.

Also, even though I haven't heard to many positive things about QLink as a company, they have a new "Megelli" in their line-up as well as the QingQi's and CFMoto's so perhaps they're worth a look.

Lifans and the such seem to have a good following and consistent market presence but I'm sure you've heard they've also had some legal issues recently with their dealers/distributors. Also, I don't believe they offer a SuMo either.

The Shineray X2X would be awesome IF they were already on shore. There's a relatively new member on MCM named "Shineray" who works for the company (in the overseas sales dept. I presume) and may be able to answer some of your questions. Their revitalization of the old Honda NX250/AX1 engine is much welcomed IMHO and there's some folks on MCM in England which have had some taste testing sessions with it. Although I know it's not already available in the US, it could be worth looking at because it looks to be a strong product with great specs.

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=753

You mentioned Johnny Pag, who makes some good bikes and has a good reputation with dealers (over 100 natonwide I understand) but their designs tend to be a little outdated although, to be fair, they do seemed to be more pointed at the Western market (taller frames, wider seat). I don't believe they make a SuMo bike though.

I hope Culcune-a-fish will be along soon with his in depth analysis of the best "bang for your buck bike" in the US.

:goodtime:
CC

I would chime in and go with Carl on the Qlink. They seem to have an increasingly expanding dealer base, and their motard has proven itself (the Chinese part being taken into consideration), but as Carl has gone to the Qingqi factory where the Qlink enduro and motard are made, he can vouche for them (not to mention that he owned one or two while he lived in China). Qlink also has a niche market with their 250 automatic scooter/bike that they rebadge from CFMoto. Plus, they are adding an interesting 3 bike line from Megelli of England.

CFMoto is a good consideration, too, but Qlink is a full line company in that they sell a variety of product including UTV's, ATV's, scooters, enduros, motards, etc., while CFMoto sells a lineup of automatic scooters/motorcycles that have a following due to people not wanting to shift, and not wanting to look like they're on a scooter.

Pitster Pro is an OEM manufacturer that is seriously looking for dealers, and is known as a top notch company in the pit bike arena. As far as I can tell, they are an actual OEM as no companies appear to manufacture their product. I really like their full size XTR 250 enduro and motard that were recently added to their line-up that are a joint venture with Puzey of S. Africa and Australia. However, Puzey does have some bikes in their line-up that are rebadged bikes such as Galaxy and Xingyue, but the liquid-cooled XTR 250 Puzey and Pitster bikes are, or appear to be, OEM'd for both companies. I would suggest the XTR 250 enduro and motard to consider, even if you don't want to carry pit bikes.

Kingmarty had chimed in and he owns a really nice looking Loncin, but as far as I can tell, Loncin does not import to the US, and/or is not EPA legal. However, the liquid-cooled Loncin engines are what power the Pitster Pro XTR 250's and the 3 bikes of Megelli that Qlink will be carrying, and as those are top end (for Chinese) bikes, does prove that Loncin can make a good engine. But he does offer good advice as far as marketing.

Shineray's top of the line dirt bike and motard will probably not make it to the US any time soon, so I would not hold off on opening your store waiting for them to arrive here. They look like they will be in Pitster XTR 250 price territory or higher, so if you can move the Pitster bikes, when/if the Shinerays get here, you could start carrying them, too.

keep us posted.

Now that's the kind of industry and product perspective I knew you guys had. Thanks again for sharing.

The Qlink 200's are modern, road legal, and supported. And, I do like the look of their SuMo and Megelli bikes. That's a likely candidate. Now the Pitster XTR 250 looks really tasty, but I still am not sure it's road legal/titleable. I've been requesting dealer and product info from many sources. Pit bikes sell well around here 'cuz Road America Speedway is 50 miles north(Suzuki Superbikes this weekend).

I'll let you know what samples I order.

PJ

I bought a Qlink XF200 and am very happy with the bike. I did my homework at this site and others before I looked for a dealer. Buying a reliable motorcycle was only part of the equation; the dealer was the other. The dealer nearest me (30 miles) used to sell Yamaha motorcycles but sells China motos only now. I know he sells Qlink and I think I saw an Asiawing on his showroom floor. He also services what he sells. I also bought a 50cc scooter for my GF when I got the XF200. It is also a Qlink. We had a problem with the starter and called the dealer. He knew what was wrong and said to bring it in. It was fixed in about 15 minutes while still on the trailer. We have had no problems since but if we do I know that he will take care of it. The key to his success if not only selling bikes and scooters he knows are good but backs them up with great service.

Hell yeah, business is about maintaining relationships more than anything else. Making a quick buck may sound good to some people but in the long run it makes life miserable and your job harder. Glad to hear you got a good dealership and a good bike!
:thumbsup:
CC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpPeej

Now that's the kind of industry and product perspective I knew you guys had. Thanks again for sharing.

The Qlink 200's are modern, road legal, and supported. And, I do like the look of their SuMo and Megelli bikes. That's a likely candidate. Now the Pitster XTR 250 looks really tasty, but I still am not sure it's road legal/titleable. I've been requesting dealer and product info from many sources. Pit bikes sell well around here 'cuz Road America Speedway is 50 miles north(Suzuki Superbikes this weekend).

I'll let you know what samples I order.

PJ

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You really should shoot a e-mail to gary @ pitster. Seems like a nice guy, actually answers his e-mails too. Much better then me, takes me 2 weeks to send a mail if i'm lucky :goodtime:

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Originally Posted by chromedioxide

You really should shoot a e-mail to gary @ pitster. Seems like a nice guy, actually answers his e-mails too. Much better then me, takes me 2 weeks to send a mail if i'm lucky :goodtime:

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Gary will get you a good deal.

Johnny Pag claims to manufacter his own bikes, but they are actually made by a company called Lifeng using engines made by Dadyw? or something like that. The Choppers appear to be designed in the US, but a manufactered in China and are cheerfully sold in other countries under other names, usually 'Regal Raptor.'

That said, having examined many hundreds of Chinese bikes the seem to be among the best for fit and finish, and most of copies with some Honda Rebel DNA, from a perfect copy of and overseas Honda Rebel to strange derivatives, including 350 cc watercooled engines.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most Chinese bikes based on a small handful of outdated Japanese engines. If I was a dealer, concentrating on on engine lineage would be useful.

Example, Kinlons, Lifans and many others use engines based ont the old Honda XR185. I have seen many parts seem to fit on any bike, regardless of the maker. Another large group is based on Honda CRF150 engines. Already mention has been Qinqi`s love affair with the Suzuki DR200 engine, and Zongshen`s with the Yamaha XT225..TW200 engine.

I forgot about Johnny Pag--they have a good reputation among Chinese-made bikes, with a decent-sized cult following, and their bikes are found elsewhere, too, under different names in the US. But they are a "premium" Chinese bike, and their cost reflects this. My biggest complaint is that their twin-engines are not the 'decorative' v-twin, but are inline twins. If I was in the market for a 'custom' cruiser, I would seriously consider the Hibird cruiser just for the look of the v-twin. I wonder if Pag would sell me one of their police bikes?

Was just in downtown DC this past weekend seeing Gil Scott-Heron at BLues Alley in Georgetown. Cam outside and noticed a cop on a Johnny Pag. They've done well as police bikes and he's done A LOT of work to make his line successful. That said, the bikes are functional but not very modern, even for Chinese bikes.

CC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrazyCarl

Was just in downtown DC this past weekend seeing Gil Scott-Heron at BLues Alley in Georgetown. Cam outside and noticed a cop on a Johnny Pag. They've done well as police bikes and he's done A LOT of work to make his line successful. That said, the bikes are functional but not very modern, even for Chinese bikes.

CC

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I lived in DC metro area a long time, when did the cops switch from harleys to pags? Its news to me.

Well this is in DC itself, not the surrounding areas of VA or MD. They still have Harleys but use these smaller bikes for things like weekend patroling (when the streets are busy) and parking enforcement.

I'm not exactly sure when they started using them but there they are. It could have possibly also been a Honda Rebel I suppose but it sure looked like a C-Moto to me and I know Johnny Pag has been hitting the police agencies hard.

CC