-
3 Attachment(s)
Mash (Shineray) XY 400
HI All
Well, I've owned one of these since July 2015
So, how does the bike perform?? Flawlessly, in a word.
The gear changes are very smooth, the acceleration is perfectly adequate, being a single, like my Enfield, whilst not super fast, you don't really slow down going up hills, either short and sharp, or long and steady !! The speedo appears to be relatively accurate, based on anecdotal evidence, as for example, when I slowed to an indicated 40mph for speed cameras, I kept parity with other vehicles around me doing the same.
So then, how does this compare to my other bikes, or bikes I've owned?? Well, I may possibly just have found my new favourite Chinese bike, finally pushing the Jinlun JL-250 off it's pedestal, no mean feat I tell you !! In many ways, Mash (Shineray) have realised the potential, that Enfield seem to be missing, by having an EFI 'classic' single at or below 400cc, and the difference in tax etc. It looks right, looks nice next to the enfield, and doesn't seem quite as flimsy as the Enfield, certainly gear changes are much smoother !! Obviously, for performance, it can't touch my since departed Honda XVS1300, or even my Triumph America, probably not the Diversion I got rid of either. It is however a pleasure to ride, it's a bit bigger than the 125's I've owned, and although probably not a huge amount quicker, has a much better road presence, and has that grunt that gives you the confidence to go up steep inclines, and not to mention, it has character in spades !!
Now then, interest from other road users and pedestrians. My Jinlun used to get plenty of interest, my Enfield still does, and based on my riding yesterday, so does the Mash, with a combination on thumbs ups !!, and some quizzicle looks, as people try and make out what it is !!
The big question is, would I recommend it, so far yes absolutely. 3000KM and no issues at all so far.
Anyhow, I think that's war and peace ended with !! So, have a look at some photos instead :)
Attachment 18121
Attachment 18122
Attachment 18123
Cheers
Tony
-
They must have improve the gear box at that engine. When I owned the X5 the gear shifting was undefined and after 10k km I had a second neutral between 3 and 4 as I remember. Also the clutch never worked smooth on my bike.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Hi
I hope so, honestly, so far, not even a hint of trouble.
Cheers
Tony
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
They most likely have a second assembly line for export bikes hence higher quality
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
I suppose they could, and perhaps Mash exercise some level of quality control?
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
For sure they do, the material used in making those is not going to be as good as the original Honda CB400SS. For example you will never see an original with yellowing down pipes on its exhaust, because Honda used double walled pipes.
I wonder if Honda has an issue with the copies or not and also if Mash secured the trademark for Von Dutch. Those issues do detract from sales, simply because if they do not have the rights they could be shut down and then the products have no support in the market. I suppose you could order any spares direct from China if that happens, but the availability would be based on how well they sell in China, the best Chinese bikes to buy outside of China are the ones that sell well in China, simply because you then can track down spares. Since the CB400SS was never sold outside of Japan getting original parts would be very hard to do also a Honda Dealer probably are not willing to work on them…if you ever need something done.
http://gd2.alicdn.com/bao/uploaded/i...pg_600x600.jpg
It’s tedious to follow the Chinese manufacturers in the markets, Jinlun as a brand had some past popularity in Europe and North America and since they seem to have lost that. The company behind Jinlun is called CIXI Kingring, they operate out of Zhejiang Provence, they may be associated in some way with Benda, and so your Jinlun twin may now be in a Romet in Poland? WK seems to also be offering a Benda product.
Romet also intends to sell the CB400 Shineray in Poland.
-
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Hi there
I do agree that the materials are unlikely to be a a standard Honda use, however, I can't guarantee that, the one I have is well put together, the chrome is good, if not exceptional, the nuts bolts etc are all stainless steel, so, i'm happy with the build quality, and, I could get hold of a 10 year CB400SS or pay less for the Mash 400, with 2 years warranty. Perhaps I'm lucky, as the dealership I got the bike from are very good, and nothing is too much trouble, and because I've offered to be a 'customner reference' I'm even getting cheaper servicing :-). I would have thought if Honda, or the owners of the Von Dutch trademark had something against these bikes, they've had plenty of time to do something about them. The Mash 400 (500) Roadstar, Von Dutch & Dirt Star have had loads of publicity in Europe, in various publications such as Classic Bike etc. However ..
Honda not having yellowing downpipes? Have a look here
Attachment 18125
Also, I remember the exhaust downpipes on my VTX1300 discolouring as well.
Anyhow, it's soon to be available in the states as well
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genu...ycle-for-2016/
So, no doubt, if the lawyers want to make some money, they will have every chance in the US. :-)
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Thats a CB400T, its a twin they never sold the SS super single outside of Japan. Honda is not an American Company so it be the Japanese that would be rasing any issues if they choose, not sure about the Von Dutch Trademark, it be a matter of reciprocity that being if the UK offers that for US Trademarks, its all a mater of due diligence, that being I would like to assume that anyone who ventures in would have done the research and not just do it without?
That’s interesting that Genuine Scooter will be importing those and the article claims some other models as well. They have yet to put it on their website…
There is a local dealer here so if they come round I check them out, that dealer also sells Royal Enfield’s. They also are Chinese bashers, so they are about to get into hypocrisy again if they sell these.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
I know, it was just a general photo, showing discolouring on a Honda exhaust downpipe. The CB400SS is now pretty easy to get hold of, there are currently 10 for sale on ebay in the UK, and looking through the ads, almost all of them show exhaust downpipe discolouring, and at least 1 has quite substantial rusting as well of the exhaust downpipes, much like this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB40...cAAOSw~otWctii
Also, not too sure what Jinlun has to do with topic. Yes, I owned one in the past, and loved it, I only stopped owning because it was stolen and burnt out. I thought, Jinlun effectively went to the wall, and the parent company predominently manufactures electric bikes now. I think over next 12-18months, there's probably going to be quite some consolidation of chinese manufacturers.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Huh, so they did import those to the UK and yeah the downpipes are not double lined or they just rust?
WOW, did you read this
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genu...cle-in-detail/
"While that is the bike’s future, it’s the G400C’s past that’s more interesting. From 2002 on, a version of this bike was produced by Shineray for Honda, who sold it as the Honda CB400SS, seen below."
They claim that Honda made the CB400SS in China through Shineray...
LOL so is that true or has the deception been taken to whole new level….some interesting revelations either way.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Hi
Not officially, not on general sale, but there are importers who import them from Japan etc.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Hi
Yeah, it quite an interesting article.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genuine_Scooters
I always question myself and hate it when I get it wrong, there is liability on the internet for making false statements.
I am fairly certain the CB400SS was made in Japan and can say that because it’s the truth. Only distributed in Japan to the best of my knowledge.
Hey everyone wants to feather their own nest, however they have to sleep in it as well.
What I know for certain is that there are national regulation in most every country for stating a COO as the Country of Origin since the CB400SS was only distributed in Japan as far as I can see...the article claims presents conflicting information.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Hi OK
You have doubts, that's fine, to be honest, it doesn't particularly bother me where my bike was made, afterall, I had a British Triumph America, oh, only except, it was made in Thailand. The country where it's distributed does not necessarily mean the same as country of manufacture.
I remember working in the clothing industry, where dressing gowns would be imported from Turkey, but due to a loophole. Marks & Spencer could market them as made in Britain !!
Also, don't forget, there's a lot on the CB400SS, engine etc, still used on current Honda products, including their ATV's
I'm sure there are commercial reasons why Honda chose not to market the CB400SS outside Japan, just as there were likely commercial reason that Yamaha didn't market the XV400 outside Japan, instead, opted to market the XV535 instead.
I'm not saying whether the CB400SS was or wasn't made in China, and to be honest I find that detail irrelevant, however there are many tie ups / partnerships between western and chinese manufacturers, and not just in the motorcycle industry.
Airbus have a manufacturing plant in China and local tie ups, Embraer and Boeing also, many car manufacturers have tie ups in China, the list is almost endless.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
About exhaust pipe discolorations mentioned here: it is normal occurrence. On temperatures bit lower than 200 deg. Celsius, you are getting this yellowish tone, some 10 deg. extra / brownish, and so on, up to approximately 250 deg. when you'll get bluish/deep blue tone.
So, if your bike's exhaust pipes suddenly turn blue, you should know that something is not right (for example, air/fuel mixture is too lean, and the engine overheats). In all other cases, it is matter of aesthetics, nothing more.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
It’s definitely a matter of esthetics, for example the Honda CB350 came with double lined exhaust pipes and they did not discolor if you see them with discoloration the pipes are not original.
http://www.motorera.com/honda/h0350/.../cb350-72d.jpg
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Not everyone cares that much about where something is made, if the CB400SS was for sale through Honda it could have any country of origin. Honda does not hide its manufacturing partners not in any way that anyone is aware of. Honda strives for consistency through its global manufacturing operations. Anyone that wants to know can find the information, it’s not a secret.
So claiming a factory as a one-time Honda OEM rides on that premise, it conjures a logical assumption. That being if they made the model for Honda then it would be up to Honda standards. The problem is that the claim is not substantiated, just words on a very small web blog.
For sure the model is a copy of a Honda and in that Honda has the rights to the design.
It’s the responsibility of the resellers (Mash, Genuine) to get assurance from the OEM (Shineray) that it has the rights to make the copy from Honda. Those are typically contractually negotiated before and sometimes after the manufacturing, the later would be a settlement.
Honda does not typically hide were its products are manufactured, the claim of Shineray being an OEM would mean they were doing just that and selling them in Japan and not disclosing they were made in China. Why would they do that, they do not do that with any other models. It all fall apart on the claim that the models made in China were exported to South Africa and other countries, if that was the case then they would be in those markets, if they were made from 2001-2009 there would be allot of them around and there are, but only in Japan.
So you have a blog out of Chicago, that is also were Genuine is located, that makes this claim and in an article that is leading and for a reason that being to conjure a logical assumption.
If genuine is going to import and sell the copy, they really need to make sure that Xinyuan really does have the legal rights to the design. I am pretty sure it’s impossible to hide were a vehicle is manufactured, to date I have never heard of any manufacturer attempting to do that, not any with any business sense. Yes there are loopholes, typically based on value added, based off inputs of material and labor, it varies by country.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
You must to take in account are exhaust pipes made of buffed stainless steel, chrome or nickel plated, wall thickness...
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Eh?? Many, many items are manufactured in one country specifically for a market in another country, and yes, Honda and I suspect others etc, all have models manufactured in not just China, but in Brazil, Mexico, India etc, heck, they even build cars for export here in the UK, cars that are definitely not for the UK market !! As I said, I really don't care where my bike or car for that matter is manufactured, just so long as I like it and it runs fine.
The issues I've had with non chinese bikes, have not typically been any different, and at times have been worse than those chinese bikes.
Eg, the VTX1300, exhaust shrouds rotted through and came loose in under 3 years, the Triumph America, again, suffered corrosion issues with the laquer after being caught out in the road salt just the once, and the engine would cut out randomly, even after the dealer remapped it !!
If Honda really do have a problem with Shineray and their XY400, they have had over 2 years to do something about it, and, from what I can see they haven't, so, I would hazard a guess it's a non issue. It happens in other industries as well, for example, De Havilland Canada used to build the Twin Otter, however, production ceased quite some time back, and then a company called Viking bought the rights and now Manufacture and sell it once again as the Viking Twin Otter. Likewise, in the US, McDonnel Douglas built a licensed copy of the BAE Hawk, Martin Baker did the same with the BAC Canberra, going on to make their own derivatives, Harrier etc, it happens all the time, and not everytime is down to some ill gotten conspiracy
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
yes that is what it is, I have a CB200T and a CL350, they are thick and double plated with Nickel and Chrome.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Damages are not limited, there is no statute of limitations, and they are accumulative. Honda has about 250 open IP violation case claims to date. It is in the reseller’s best interests to have proof of the rights to manufacture. Honda does not publicize such matters they will pursue based on potential recovery. So it is actually in their best interests to wait, more sales more potential recovery.
It’s not criminal in the USA its Civil Honda sends out letters called a cease and desist, simply stating you are violating our design and stop or we will sue you for the damages.
So sadly the more you sell the higher you move up on the list for the Honda legal department.
If Xinyuan bought a license from Honda that should be easy to substantiate, I always assume legitimacy as I am outside of it, if directly involved I would require proof.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
The CB400SS was only ever made in Japan. However it was grey exported worldwide, but never marketed or sold directly by Honda outside Japan. It was sold briefly in China, and it was probably reverse engineered poorly by someone or other. Since Jialing sold the official CG125, CB125 (twin) and CB250 (twin 234cc) engine blueprints to the highest bidder under the table to nasty Chinese copycat companies. I doubt Honda would have allowed any 400 single engines to be made in China. If they had every tom dick and Harry China idiot manufacturer would currently have a 400cc single cylinder in their lineup.
It does matter where a bike is made hugely. If you have three or four identical bikes, a could be YBR125, or CG125 made in China, made in India, Brazil, Thailand, Portugal, Spain or Japan (not saying a CG125 or YBR125 is made in all these countries, but maybe 4 or 5 of them). Those bikes may share the design, but the quality of the parts and assembly will vary and the local and export versions will differ (eg Sari guards in India).
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Any distributor could get knocked out of the market by losing an IP lawsuit, that is a concern. Then the OEM can come in and pick up the pieces, clean up so to speak. Take over the distributor after it is forced into insolvency. The OEM’s in China are not directly setting up affiliated legal entities in foreign countries and selling what they know violates the designs of others, they are doing it by proxy and in that staying protected as China only claims to inforce IP rights, as in practice they do not.
Xinuan is actively directly setting up operations in Italy developing altered designs of that model, calling it a 440 and subsequently they removed all the Honda design elements, they replaced them with SWM elements.
The distributors are nothing more than networks to the consumer, they do not have any factory production, and they can be taken over, simply bought out. They would be easiest to buy if they are under duress, that being fending off a very costly legal battle over IP design rights. The bigger the network the better, the manufactures have to have distribution.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
The best practice is to have lability insurance, there are policies that are specific for IP and work both ways protecting products and also claims against yours made by others. When purchasing out of China it is really the best practice to cover liability for IP yours and against violations of others. Do not operate on assumptions.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
The bike same style and appearance became quite popular in BJ last year.
I saw them a lot in the classic setup as well as cafe racer style.
So there should be plenty of spares in the chinese market.
Also the X5 gets more and more fans here as it a cheaper ADV bike and you find luggage racks, boxes, etc easily in TaoBao.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
I love the concept of this bike! The X5 I mean, Its pure perfect for my needs in China. If there were no quality issues Id have gone for it long ago.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Hi
As I said before, it doesn't matter to me who built or where my bike, or anything else for that matter, is built so long as it's what I want and is fit for purpose. I have to say the Mash 400, so far, fits that description perfectly. To be fair, I can pretty much say the same for any of the chinese bikes I've owned over the last 10 years or so. No major quality issues and they've pretty much done what they've said on the tin !! Back to the Shineray XY400, I haven't had a single issue yet and I love riding it.
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Quote:
I haven't had a single issue yet and I love riding it.
The important word you said was "YET" I hope you can report back in 30.000km time and say STILL NOT had a issue with the bike ? .
I hope this is the case but I don't very much likely it will .
-
Re: Mash (Shineray) XY 400
Too early to make any claims beyond initial quality, the only other reports we had on Xinyuan production bikes were indifferent some good some bad reports on overall quality. Also the validity of the review comes later and based on perception of members reading the content.