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Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
So much to do, so little time to post. Yes, I realize my Buckin' Bronco thread is hanging unfinished, but here's the reason why: The past couple of weeks have been consumed with getting my JH600 registered and street legal here in Shanghai, where I live. Oh, and a little ride out to Huangshan and back to continue the breaking in process... So I've got some homework to do -- finish one ride report and write another. But with quite a few Shanghai residents already purchasing big-bore bikes or planning to, I thought it might be useful first to report on how I got my bike legal. I'll see if I can do this in one simple shot and not string it out over days.
Though Shanghai is not particularly friendly to big bikes, neither is it outright hostile. There are surely hundreds of thousands of sub-250cc bikes prowling the streets, many inside the Inner Ring Road which is subject to the stiffest restrictions but most in the huge region outside the Inner Ring. To ride legally inside the Inner Ring one must have a plate designated 沪A, rather than 沪C, 沪D or 沪E (沪, pronounced "hu\", being the nickname for Shanghai). Ride a C, D or E plated bike inside the ring and expect a 200 RMB fine. The price of this exclusive 沪A access is high: about 20,000 RMB for sub-250cc bikes and -- drum roll please -- a staggering 43,000 RMB (US$6,300 at current rates) for anything bigger, with no discrimination between Chinese and foreign-made rides.
Here's the logic for the high price of admission: In its infinite wisdom, Shanghai has decided to limit the numbers of motorcycles in the city center, while not banning them outright. While every month there is a new but limited allocation of car plates to the general public, which are priced through an auction system, there are no new allocations for motorcycles. I've never seen an authoritative estimate of how many 沪A motorcycle plates are in circulation, but the number surely is shrinking. This is because existing motorcycle plate can be transferred over to a car, whereas it's not possible to transfer a car plate to a bike. And this explains why the price of a plate for a bike tracks that of the prevailing auction price for car plates -- i.e., 43,000 RMB in May.
How to justify paying 43,000 for a plate for a bike that only cost 30,000? You suck it in, cross your fingers, knock on wood, burn some joss sticks and hope that the system stays intact and that when you a) sell, b) decommission or c) export your bike, you'll still have a plate that's worth at least what you paid for it, which you then can sell in the open market. This assumes there's no policy change or major alteration of the system. Like I said, it's the price of admission. Clearly a lot of folks don't think it's worth the trouble. As others have pointed out in cautionary posts, many expats are riding bikes with plates that are outright fake, or purchased illegally in other provinces (Jiangsu and Hebei being favorites), or registered in suburban Shanghai with 沪C plates, usually not in their own names because of the presumed hassle of registering a bike as a foreigner.
There's a bit of good news here. Unbelievably, I was told that I was the first foreigner to openly and legally register a big-bore bike here in Shanghai. Ever. And it seems there is now a clear path to accomplish this. Here's how I did it:
Because Jialing has no retail outlet for the JH600 in Shanghai, you have to purchase directly from the factory in Chongqing. After my Buckin' Bronco ride in Chongqing and Sichuan, I returned the bike to Jialing where it was crated and trucked to a forwarder out in suburban Jiading district, where we had to fetch it from a vast empty warehouse. These guys are my new best friends -- Liu Zhidong and Fan Peisheng aka Xiao Fan, the Jialing support team in Shanghai, and you'll be seeing them a lot in this thread.
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Unbelievably, the crate just fits in a breadbox taxi.
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And we unload at Xiao Fan's Changjiang 750 repair shop in Honggu Lu.
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Button up my sleeve, a wave of the magic wand (actually a 12mm box wrench), and Presto! -- it's a motorbike!
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And so here she is, safely inside the Inner Ring, replete with a nice layer of Sichuan dust! But still no plate.
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One of the reasons that expats typically opt to register in Shanghai under a spouse's or friend's name is that vehicle registration rules require that the registrant be a legal resident of Shanghai. If you are in China on a long-term assignment and have a one-year or multiple-year "Residence Permit for Foreigner" stamped in your passport, this unfortunately only establishes that you are a resident of China, not of Shanghai. What the Shanghai motor vehicle registrar is looking for is something closer to a hukou -- an explicit official statement of Shanghai residency. No, your police registration document is not enough. It only says where you live, not that you are a "legal resident". The key is something called a Shanghai Residence Card, called 申请上海市居住证 or simply B证 (B zheng) in Chinese, which most expats have never heard of, much less obtained. It's a bit of a pain to get, requiring that your employing company not only vouch for you but also present its business license and other key corporate documents. The card is issued by the Entry-Exit Bureau of the Public Security Bureau, but is processed by a strange bureaucracy called the Shanghai Human Resources and Social Security Administration.
Here's mine, front and back.
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Here are instructions (in Chinese) about how and where to get the B Zheng:
B Zheng application info
Why is the B Zheng essential? Vehicle registration in China is done only in Chinese language, and, unless you are from Singapore or Taiwan or Hong Kong, your passport and residence permit are likely not in Chinese. So you need a single document that officially designates that you, John Doe and the name you use in Chinese, 张老外, are one in the same person. In my case, all of my motoring documents -- driving licence, motorcycle purchase receipt, vehicle registration, insurance, taxes, etc -- are all under my Chinese name, and the B Zheng affirms that this is the same guy wielding that foreign passport in a foreign language that is unacceptable to celestialdom.
It took me about four weeks to obtain the B Zheng, a process helped along by administrative staff in my company. There was one setback when the sorry bureaucrats at the Human Resources and Social Security Administration rejected my company's letter of introduction because the chop was not in the proper location on the page. That added a couple of days to sort out.
Vehicle registration is a fairly straightforward process, but you'll waste tons of time if you don't have someone to help. I actually had two layers of help -- Liu Zhidong handled the initial applications, but then when it came to actually bringing the bike to the registration authority in Pudong, we hired another guy who does this full time, and I assume keeps the bureaucrats happy with meals and other favors.
Registration is actually a multiple-step process, involving:
1) Identifying a plate that is available for purchase, and agreeing a price with the seller
2) Application and approval of the transfer of the plate from the seller to you
3) Purchasing a one-year insurance policy on your bike
4) Passing a vehicle inspection
5) Registering your bike under the plate that you just purchased on the open market.
To start the registration process you'll need the following:
1) B Zheng
2) passport
3) vehicle purchase receipt
4) roadworthiness certificate (supplied by the manufacturer)
This allows you, or your designated agent, to enter the open market and shop for a plate. Liu Zhidong did this for me by hanging around the registration center out on the Hunan Highway in Pudong.
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In late May, Liu was able to find only two available plates, and learned that almost a dozen had been snapped up by the local H-D dealer for use on the many hogs that it's been selling. The seller agreed to a price of 43,000 RMB, which was precisely the official auction price for a car plate in Shanghai in May. The seller also agreed to pick up the transfer fee, which is several hundred RMB.
A word about the "market price" of these plates. If you are registering in a month when Shanghai allocates a particularly large number of car plates, the auction price may come down substantially. In recent years it's varied between the mid-30s and low 40s. But this does not necessarily ensure that you'll get lucky in a month with a lower auction price. Because the average in the past year has been around 40K or more, and because motorbike plate are outside of the car auction system, most sellers are likely to just wait out the low tide and not sell until a month with a higher auction price. With this in mind, I saw no reason to balk at the 43K asked for my plate. The price is what it is: a reflection of the average price of a car plate over time. Again, it's just the price of admission, and, with any luck, you'll get it back later and maybe with some appreciation.
How is the transfer handled safely with so much money involved? The motor vehicle authority licenses a number of escrow agents who mediate between buyer and seller, which is important since motorcycle registration is subject to approval. So we placed a 10K deposit with the escrow agent, who also held my passport and B Zheng and also the license permit from the seller, while we submitted the transfer to the authorities for approval. This took about four days. Once the transfer was approved, I paid the balance to the escrow agent who handed over the license permit and my documents. Meanwhile we purchased an insurance policy.
While registration is centralized in Pudong, vehicle inspection can be done at many locations around the city. We did mine at the Minhang station. Because I still didn't have my driver's license, and no one else wanted to take the responsibility of riding it there, we had to transport the bike. OK, how to fit a big thumper into a breadbox taxi?
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You pull off the lid and lift it in. No pix of the lifting, since the photographer was among the lifters. At 200kg the Jialing is no featherweight, but it lashed down nicely.
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"Motorcycle inspection please enter here."
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Given the heavy rain, we begged the inspectors to do their inspection in the back of the taxi. No luck.
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Lord knows what all these tests where, but the law's the law, so we had no choice but to comply.
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To prevent people from registering multiple bikes under a single Vehicle Identification Number, the inspectors require that you paint your VIN with vermilion ink and take an imprint on a piece of cellophane tape, which is then pressed onto the inspection form like a tattoo stencil.
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And so we prepare to hoist her into the taxi one more time.
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Not a lot of inspection going on today.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
We reserved a full day for actual registration, delayed by one day so I could retake my driver's license exam. This time I passed, and on Friday 11 June we caravaned out to Pudong, an hourlong drive that was my first official ride in Shanghai. By the time we got there I was drenched in sweat in my riding gear. All the Gear, All the Time.
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So here's an inside look at the registration office -- actually one of about six different offices at the registration center where we had to do our rounds. This was the tax office, where I forked over 10% of the purchase price (minus the 17% VAT that was included in the sale price from Jialing). The bloke in prison stripes is our fixer, who I calculate saved us about 4 hours there.
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Can't be registered without a photograph, which is included in your registration book. This guy was able to shoot with one hand and hold an ice cream in the other.
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More vermilion imprints of the VIN and engine identification number.
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Did you know there is a rule that all vehicles in China must display the brand name in Chinese on both flanks? But my bike is the taller "European edition" made for sale for apelike foreigners in the west where Chinese characters would only confuse the primitives there. No worries. Mister Stencil Man to the rescue!
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There we have it. This must be a 嘉陵! It says so right on the tank!
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Believe it or not, my bike also had to be measured to ensure that it was the same size as the specifications listed in the roadworthiness certificate, which was supplied by the manufacturer. So here comes an inspector with his measuring tape.
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Then a final 360-degree lookaround by yet another inspector, whose comment was: "Nice bike. This is the best bike made in China. But it's no Harley." I told him he was welcome to give her a spin, and that this might change his opinion. He declined, saying, as most Chinese do: "It's too tall for me. Harleys fit us Chinese better." OK, so now we have the benchmark for motorcycle quality: Not too tall.
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Now off to yet another office where all the various certificates, documents, receipts, approvals and photographs are brought together for a final submission. There were several other bikes being plated that day, including this Regal Raptor. We were in this office for a hour.
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And we reach the final act: The selection of a plate number and issuance of new plates. But didn't I buy an existing plate on the open market? Well, no. What I bought was the plate permit -- permission to possess and use a plate. When it comes to plating, this permit is submitted and you go to this big hall where there are three chambers with touch-screen machines that look a bit like slot machines. You touch the screen to activate, then wave a bar-code receipt in front of a scanner, and it then sets up a random number generator. You touch the screen again and the numbers start whizzing furiously by -- far too fast to see. You have 90 seconds to touch the screen again to freeze the spinning and the system presents you with six randomly generated plate number choices. At this point you have another 90 seconds to make your selection. In other words, you control the point at which the random number generator generates the six number from which you will choose. You then choose the most auspicious of the six. The process is called 6选, which perhaps was inspired by the Pick Six lottery back in New York.
I made my choice, and the machine spat out a receipt printed with with my data and the number I selected.
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With this we were able to go and retrieve my precious 沪A plates!
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I'd like to say the process ended here, but that would have been too easy. We were now, to use ChinaV's preferred term, punished with a two-hour wait in a sweltering waiting room. We don't really know what we were waiting for, but wait we did. We got to sit there watching hundreds of available plate numbers scroll by on big digital readouts.
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Actually, this is the document that we were waiting for.
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Finally the moment of truth -- actually affixing the plates to my bike, a privilege I gave to Xiao Fan.
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And we are legal!
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If anyone has further questions, please don't hesitate to PM me.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Many thanks for your trailblazing effort in getting your jh600 through the paper maze in Shanghai. I've been waiting for over a year for just such a ground breaking event. I will put in my order next week for my own jh600.
Much like you I started my motorcycle career at about the same age as you are now, which was 9 years ago when I first arrived in Shanghai. I quickly discovered that motorcycling is the best way to see China. I do lots of motorcycle tours with my Chinese friends as the language is not a barrier for me. Hope we can do some ride together also around Shanghai in the near future on our Jialings.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
What an amazing process, and I thought I had it hard and expensive enough to whinge a lot here in Aus! Well done with the trailblazing and the patience and in making the contacts, a lesson for all of us impatient outlaws ... Now just be very careful and enjoy the ride mate!
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Impressive feat! I guess it takes ten years experience of living in China in order to be able to go through all that hassle. Great reading and photographs also. It is nice to see how professionals do it. Thumbs up big time!
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
milton
I do lots of motorcycle tours with my Chinese friends as the language is not a barrier for me. Hope we can do some ride together also around Shanghai in the near future on our Jialings.
Dear Milton,
In the short while that I've had it, and with only one other steed for comparison (2000 KLR650), I'm quite pleased with the JH600. I'll be posting more comprehensively on this, but suffice it to say that the stock bike has given me everything I asked for, with no complaints. Unless you are independently wealthy and don't mind being fleeced for insulting import duties to buy a BMW, the Jialing is pretty much the only option right now -- and it's a good one.
So what have you been riding up till now? And is there a circle of local riders you've found who aren't timid about two-wheelers? (Many Chinese I know urged me to go for a sidecar instead, citing safety, though I think they're more afraid of dropping or otherwise failing to control a bigger bike.) I'll PM you with my contacts. Do give me a shout. You are not the only Shanghai expat who's leaning toward the Jialing. One other has already been delivered, and at least one other is in train. Would be great to meet up and plan some rides.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Euphonius, what a remarkable achievement! If anyone has doubts about where the most tedious place in the world is to ride a bike legally, they should be refered to this thread.
Congratulations on your shiny legal bike and also for putting it alongside pfaelzer's in the running for "Most expensive JH600 in the world"!
If you're ever bored for a day and don't want to ride too far out of shanghai, this is a pretty nice ride. Gimme a shoult if you're in the area!
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
felix
"Most expensive JH600 in the world"!
Try as I might, I don't think I'll ever surpass Pfaelzer. It was pointed out to me that my plates probably are worth more than their weight in gold, even at current prices.
Thanks also for the route. I'll be riding southwest into Jiangxi to Nanchang (via Yongkang) later this week, and returning to Shanghai via some still unknown route that likely will involve traveling north and east out of Nanchang. This could well pass through Suzhou, on or about 29 June.......
And, yes, we're always looking for decent excursions outside of Shanghai. Our trick is to ride early and escape via the prohibited elevated highway (高架 gaojia), which saves tons of stop-and-go in Shanghai's interminable industrial exburbs.
cheers
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
euphonius
Try as I might, I don't think I'll ever surpass Pfaelzer. It was pointed out to me that my plates probably are worth more than their weight in gold, even at current prices.
Thanks also for the route. I'll be riding southwest into Jiangxi to Nanchang (via Yongkang) later this week, and returning to Shanghai via some still unknown route that likely will involve traveling north and east out of Nanchang. This could well pass through Suzhou, on or about 29 June.......
And, yes, we're always looking for decent excursions outside of Shanghai. Our trick is to ride early and escape via the prohibited elevated highway (高架 gaojia), which saves tons of stop-and-go in Shanghai's interminable industrial exburbs.
cheers
Enjoy your trip. Me and a mate rode through Jiangxi extensively and YongKang and NanChang were both included in our route. The females in NanChang were absolutely stunning. Me and my mate had found a McD's and parked our Dragstars 1100's outside and our heads couldn't stop spinning there was so much talent to look at. I swear I fell in lust multiple times over. Our route came into Jiangxi via NanFeng, then south to NingDu, west towards XingGuo then north to JiAn and up to FengCheng, Xiangtang then the capital NanChang where we stopped for refuelling bodies and bikes before LuShan with an overnighter in JiuJang. Definately hit LuShan, it's a nice area to ride, green and mountainous and the roads are way better than the lower areas on JaigXi. Not that will matter for you with your bike, but it was hell on the Dragstars! The roads in JiangXi are third world... From JuiJiang we headed east ferry across the YangZi river then rode into JingDeZhen, before riding down to ShangRao before off into Anhui and then HuangShan.
If I had the right ride (dual purpose) I'd drop everything to come join you... lucky b@st@rd!
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bikerdoc
If I had the right ride (dual purpose) I'd drop everything to come join you... lucky b@st@rd!
Thanks very much for the route advice. Where did you say that scenic McD's was again?
As for getting a dual sport, what better time than now? :clap: I'll be posting about our Huangshan trip, but suffice it for now to say the Jialing performed very well. Took everything I gave it, and gave everything I asked for.
cheers
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
That was more exhausting than my tour through Yunnan and Sichuan. :lol8: Thanks for sharing all the details, I'm sure others will benefit greatly from this report. :thumbsup:
Disgusting that Shanghai can extort those fees from people, but I would probably bite the bullet and make the same decision as you if I lived there.
Cheers!
ChinaV
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Sounds like a great trip! I'd love to try jiangxi. Unfortunately i'd be working on the 29th so you won't be getting an escort, i only have weekends to ride.
The goajia is undoubtebly the best way to get out of town, even in suzhou. I use it every now and then on the sidecar, but generally avoid it on two wheels unless it's very early or very late. I was once driving my sidcecar on it when a police car pulled up alongside me, but all they did was wave with big grins and give me the thumbs up! Ah china....
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
ChinaV,
I'll trade you my ordeal for yours any day. Well, yours minus your little wipeout!
As for the cost, I'm looking at that fee as something like a certificate of deposit. Regardless of what happens to the bike, as long as the rules don't change it's like, er, money in the bank. Yes, that's a big "as long as"...
At least Shanghai hasn't banned bikes outright, as quite a few cities have. I'm guessing you are far from the Guangzhou CBD, right?
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
jkp,
Good to see you got thru the ordeal. Shanghai is different from Nanjing for sure. My costs here in the Jing were RMB8000 for the plate here and another RMB4000 for taxes and miscellaneous charges. However, the system was very similar. I can definitely agree with your use of a facilitator. I used one for both my China motorcycle test and for the plate process even though my wife is Chinese. Money well spent as I am sure they saved us hours of back and forth! Anyway, enjoy and keep the rubber side down.
DT
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
jkp,
we are all waiting to see your Buckin' Bronco RR continue - but now I understand why this had to wait. Unbelievable you went through all of this but I bet there are a lot of foreigners in China, interested in the procedure of registering a bike. Good contribution... and fantastic report.
I am living in Hong Kong and procedures here are pretty similar, once it comes to registering a cross-border vehicle. The plates to cross from Hong Kong into Guangdong are also expensive, but same than in your case, they are not linked to the vehicle and do not loose in value. Good to read, that you like the bike. As I said, there is no real need for big modifications unless you are... - it runs well as it is -
Hope to meet up with you somewhen for a ride.
Cheers,
AW.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
euphonius
ChinaV,
I'll trade you my ordeal for yours any day. Well, yours minus your little wipeout!
As for the cost, I'm looking at that fee as something like a certificate of deposit. Regardless of what happens to the bike, as long as the rules don't change it's like, er, money in the bank. Yes, that's a big "as long as"...
At least Shanghai hasn't banned bikes outright, as quite a few cities have. I'm guessing you are far from the Guangzhou CBD, right?
Actually, I think wiping out is still more fun than dealing with Chinese bureaucracy :mwink:
I'm well outside of Guangzhou, but the ban on bikes now stretches from Guangzhou all the way to Shenzhen. JH600, out the door with plates, insurance etc. is 37k. I wonder why Beijing, Shanghai, and Nanjing allow motorcycles, yet Shenzhen and Guangzhou do not. We have a better riding season down here, and Shenzhen was the first major city opened for foreign trade. :confused1:
Cheers!
ChinaV
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
I find this interesting. Once upon a time I was involved for a while in small town road and parking planning, very complicated and many factors most wouldn't think of (delivery needs, noise, pollution, rights of way, emergency vehicle access and more).
I haven't heard of anything similar to total motorbike bans anywhere else in the world but I don't have a broad knowledge. I think in UK and Aus such ideas can start at local government level and spread. Often such local government regs, ie parking, vehicle access and times can be far away from the usual major political party positions, a local quirk because of local conditions such as in London.
The nearest thing in Aus so far is toll roads which no-one likes but which are growing and necessary if you want fast access into major city centers. So far you can always circumvent these routes but only by knowing the side roads and suburbs well otherwise you are forced into main bus/tram and local traffic routes. That may change over time if the idea of travel zones spreads. The need for safe streets for locals, often with residential parking and speed bumps etc. contrasts with the need for through routes, shopping centres and so on.
Do you have any idea why motorcycles are banned over there? Is there an official reason given and does it extend to scooters, mopeds and electric bicycles? Is it on all roads in a region including for locals in villages that surely rely on such transport or just in city centres and express roads?
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jape
Do you have any idea why motorcycles are banned over there? Is there an official reason given and does it extend to scooters, mopeds and electric bicycles? Is it on all roads in a region including for locals in villages that surely rely on such transport or just in city centres and express roads?
Each city has its own rules on which two wheelers and which areas. Officially they are banned because:
Noise pollution
Air pollution
Traffic crashes and fatalities
Illegal motorcycle taxi operation
Impact on traffic order
Impact on the image of the city
Theft and security
If you read this document , I think it makes a pretty strong case for removing motorcycles from Chinese Urban areas.
Cheers!
ChinaV
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
ChinaV. That's an interesting article that raises quite a few valid points which tend to support banning motorcycle use in Chinese cities. It's unfortunate that such bans though infringe upon those who chose to ride motorcycles for recreation purposes or for those that prefer to ride motorcycles to/from work/shopping etc. The key word here is choice and individual freedom of choice. That's one of the negative aspects of a political system like communism; based on idea of the collective rather than the individual and that the will and greater good for the majority (collective) supersedes the rights and will of the individual. Me thinks that rather than outright motorcycle bans, that higher priced licensing would be an alternative measure with a special designated plate, such like what applies in Shanghai. It seems to work in Shanghai so surely such a measure could work elsewhere, after all the article tends to argue that people have increasing incomes etc., so it seems like a sensible viable alternative to complete motorcycle bans - which in of itself is discrimination. Indeed there needs to be some co-ordination, perhaps a plate that has a higher cost and can only be used on motorcycle above a certain displacement or horsepower that then can use expressways etc. If there were to be more stringent enforcement on ALL road users and pedestrians then things would tend to work more smoothly...
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
It's all a cultural problem, Chinese people often do silly little trips on the most 'face getting' vehicle they can, instead of riding a bicycle or walking... This is what made motorcycles seem to be a such a menace, and also why the roads are so congested with cars now.
I can see why people want to ban polluting unregistered, uninsured small motorcycles and scooters, but banning big recreational bikes and giving them no way to be legal is ridiculous and goes against China's WTO commitments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc
perhaps a plate that has a higher cost and can only be used on motorcycle above a certain displacement or horsepower that then can use expressways etc
+1, hopefully...............one day..............!
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
I looked through that bit of research too, and must say I could feel its bias from the outset. The report talks ONLY about the huge increases in numbers of motorcycles as Deng's reforms generated rapid rises in income, but does not mention the rise in numbers of cars, especially in the mid-1990s as China under JZM made car-making a "pillar industry" of the economy. Surely the number of cars in Guangzhou is now in the millions, and, like all other cities, GZ is spending billions and billions to pave ever more roads to accommodate them -- often at the expense of pedestrians and bicyclists, who (I hope) are not subject any bans.
I've not spent much time in GZ in recent years, but over my 20 years in China I've spent lots of time in Beijing and Shanghai. Beijing has taken a path of almost zero resistance to cars, and the result is really awful (chinabiker may disagree!). In the past five years, Beijing's laughably low car registration fees (a few thousand RMB, unless something has changed) have encouraged rapid growth of the car population into the low millions, triggering an orgy of roadbuilding. My flat in Beijing once was in a quiet part of town, between the east 3rd and 4th rings just off Chang'an Jie. Now my compound has become an island surrounded on four sides by greatly expanded roads -- all of which become saturated with slow-moving traffic as soon as they are finished. At rush hour, Beijing's major arteries are little more than parking lots, with the exception that every engine is idling (polluting and wasting petrol and creating an incessant drone of noise pollution). Yes, government bureaucrats, who are highly concentrated in Beijing, very much enjoy their (Chinese-made) Audis and Buicks, and because they have drivers I guess they don't mind the glory of sitting in traffic snarls. If they are senior enough the police come out and clear a path for their motorcades.
Shanghai has handled the situation very differently, and, in my opinion, far, far more intelligently. Here, plates for all vehicles are restricted in number, and thus ALL private vehicles are subject to highly burdensome fees. This approach has been used in Hong Kong and Singapore to very good effect, though of course it makes cars and motorcycles cost FAR more than they would elsewhere. In other words, private motoring is an expensive privilege rather than a right, and you have to pay to play. The result for quality of life is impressive. With some exceptions for major arteries, rather than bulldozing and widening all of its streets as Beijing does, Shanghai has tried to retain a human scale of its neighborhoods. In most older parts of town, roads remain two laners, with nice wide lanes for bicycles and amazingly low numbers of cars in circulation. Traffic does stall at rush hour up on the elevated roads, but it generally flows nicely in neighborhood streets.
Vastly improved subways in both cities have helped a lot. In Beijing people are desperate to escape the wonderful cars they've bought; in Shanghai, cars are out of reach so few had cars to begin with. In both cities, the new subways are a valued option.
Footnote: This is not to say that Shanghai is a paradise. Far from it. The roads teem with millions of ebikes and small-bore motorbikes, often modified to achieve great horsepower, most with no license plates or other registration. And the effect is a bit sobering to the uninitiated. Clearly there is a huge task at hand to step up regulation of existing vehicles, and enforcing the regulations. I've asked lots of people for the rules on small-bore bikes, ebikes and the like, and have not gotten consistent answers. Surely an electric bicycle or electric moped capable of running at 40kph should be licensed, and its driver too. But most seem to run with impunity. No helmets. Slippers or flipflops. No mirrors. Etc.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
- and then just foreigners and the uncaring, 'face' conscious' rich will have them, while a decent bloke working to raise a family and save up so gets a 'bike rather than a car, can't? Call me a commie, I believe in 'fair play' not regulation by wealth. All or none.
The so-called enshrined 'rights' of the individual have had a looong run in this world and have caused and increased only greed and bloodshed. What about the rights of the innocent (they do exist), the poor (by misfortune or chance), the injured and disabled? What about the rights of society and community?
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jape
What about the rights of society and community?
At risk of turning this thread overtly political, which I suppose I've already done with my long comment above: Hear, hear, Jape! Hopefully yours is the wisdom of this new century!
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
euphonius
At risk of turning this thread overtly political, which I suppose I've already done with my long comment above: Hear, hear, Jape! Hopefully yours is the wisdom of this new century!
I think we should split this part of your thread into a different topic as there is probably plenty to discuss from the document link I posted. Sorry about that. I agree with your statement Jape, but I think what the document points out is that the Chinese could not handle a situation where everyone was given access to cheap transportation. The simple answer to this is not expensive bikes and expensive registrations, it's a thing called laws. If they fined every idiot 1000-2000 Yuan per traffic offense, you would see a big change in the traffic habits of Chinese people.
The scariest part of that, somewhat biased, document is how much it is being sighted and cross linked throughout the internet. A lot of people see motorcycles as a bad thing.[/highjack]
Cheers!
ChinaV
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jape
- and then just foreigners and the uncaring, 'face' conscious' rich will have them, while a decent bloke working to raise a family and save up so gets a 'bike rather than a car, can't? Call me a commie, I believe in 'fair play' not regulation by wealth. All or none.
In Australia I absolutely agree, but China has its own conditions, most small displacement riders in China don't play fair. No license, no insurance, no registration or helmet are the norm in many places, then there are the journeys of a few hundred meters being common. If the police could enforce the rules properly and fine those whose bikes are illegal more often, and charge a higher registration fee so as to encourage frivolous motorcycle/scooter users towards ebikes. There would then be few enough motorcycles on the road for any need to ban them in any city unnecessary, meaning that everyone in the end has more freedom.
China needs a having motorcycle to be a privilege, most 'decent blokes working to raise a family' are perfectly happy on ebikes, they just don't switch over due to the cost and want to run their machine into the ground before moving over to an ebike, and their sometimes careless and inconsiderate attitudes damage motorcycling for the genuine enthusiast, for whom not having a motorcycle damages their quality of life.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
jpk,
a really good "how to" you've written down here :thumbsup:
Procedure is time consuming and nasty but at least it seems to be re-produceable.
Good job
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZMC888
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bikerdoc
perhaps a plate that has a higher cost and can only be used on motorcycle above a certain displacement or horsepower that then can use expressways etc
+1, hopefully...............one day..............!
That kind of plate would create another source of doubtful income for some officials :lol8::lol8::lol8:
Otherwise a good idea :deal:
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jape
- and then just foreigners and the uncaring, 'face' conscious' rich will have them,
Rofl what a word, "face conscious", a very good one. Will have to remember that. Have to admit I have become more and more face conscious as I have grown older. Have to say it haven't made my life better at all.
I think I understand the pros of Shanghai way. The registration process there was like going to lisence plate stock exchange. Private motorcycling and car driving can a be a serious problem in China, and one way to deal with it is to apply enormous taxes and limit the number of plates. However fair play is important too. Whose money is used to build and maintain roads? Is it 100 rich persons who pay them or 1 000 000 poor who never can get a vehicle?
My solution for the problem could be to make a lisence plate lottery. The solution is based on a principle that there is no privileges in getting a vehicle. So if you want to get a vehicle you have to be lucky or you have to really pay of it.
The vehicle lisence plate lottery would happen annually and everyone could participate on it. If you win you could sell the rights to register a vehicle or you could register a new vehicle by yourself. This is how you do it if you do it in a fair waỵ. If there must be limits, then better put everyone on the same ground.
In my way both rich and poor could get lisence plates, as it should be. In practise many poor might sell the rights to buy lisence plates to rich, which would benefit both rich and poor as opposite to current situation where the poor people gets nothing except negative concequences.
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Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
Quote:
Originally Posted by
euphonius
ChinaV,
As for the cost, I'm looking at that fee as something like a certificate of deposit. Regardless of what happens to the bike, as long as the rules don't change it's like, er, money in the bank. Yes, that's a big "as long as"...
I paid 8K RMB for my yello A plate 8 years ago, which is now worth over 40K. Best investment I've made in China. You might just make some money on this thin piece of metal.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Getting legal: Registering my JH600 in Shanghai
A while ago I came across a white paper, released 10 years ago by Shanghai city planners, titled “Shanghai traffic development, a white paper”. I believe this paper officially started the “motorcycle discrimination” in Shanghai.
It has 4 pages divided in 2 chapters, with the first one describing the background of the paper and the second “Traffic development strategy”. Most thoughts in the paper are visionary and sensible, aiming to offer to its subjects “fast, safe, comfortable and clean” traffic services. Then it singles out motorcycles in the last part of second chapter as follows:
Attachment 1771
Translation:
“Motorcycle as a means of transportation is flexible, convenient and speedy. Due to these characteristics it grows fast in numbers. However, a large number of motorcycles on the road would disturb the normal traffic flow and in turn become a threat to the safety of city traffic. It would lower the operational efficiency of the traffic and produce a relatively larger share of harms to the city environment as a whole. “
This is rather bizarre. Even when motorcycles are accurately described as the preferred means of transportation of the people, they are not treated as part of the normal traffic, to be managed and protected equally as all others on the road. Instead they are considered menaces to the general traffic. In short, they are singled out and discriminated against. It was unscientific. It did not invite feedbacks from the “people” which it is supposed to serve. This short paragraph in the white paper created the most expensive motorcycle license plate in the world as a direct result.