Notice that they have their own line that they contract out of Chinese OEM and also they are distributing other brands as well.
http://www.evopowerboards.com/home/index.asp
Smart and professional.
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Notice that they have their own line that they contract out of Chinese OEM and also they are distributing other brands as well.
http://www.evopowerboards.com/home/index.asp
Smart and professional.
The OEM is also supplying ATV to this company...
http://www.velomotors.ru/
The OEM is also supplying this company...
http://www.goeseurope.com/site/site/index.php
The OEM is also supplying this company?
http://www.atvsweden.se/
At least they claim they are.....The OEM is Zhejiang Feishen Vehicle Co., Ltd.
http://feishen.en.alibaba.com/aboutu...companyprofile
They used to have Shuopu Science OEM their old XTR 250 enduro/motard/dirt bike with the liquid-cooled Loncin engine. A few years ago, one of the Puzey quality guys was a member here and bashed Shuopu Science, so my guess is they had a falling out. They had some sort of affiliation with Pitster Pro (Puzey did), and Pitster even had the Puzey USA website (which would link you to Pitster Pro's website. My guess is there was a falling out all over, and Puzey went on his own, found another OEM, and is offering some promising bikes such as the XTR4 with the 500cc engine.
I do remember a couple years ago, they also offered the air-cooled Galaxy XTR 250 (the time when the Shuopu Science XTR 250 LC was their top-of-the line bike). I think once they invested in manufacturing, they upped their game to the XTR 4 with the 300cc engine, and then all the way to the 500cc
You’re the king of conjecture…..
Alibaba is scary website….people set up “manufacturing” companies on that site all the time.
I bet that the 300cc that Puzey is offering is a decent product….but I am so sure they want nothing to do with the US market.
look at the drop down they are distributing the Jialing 600, which probably means they have the Jialing factory on speed dial? They also discontinued the XTR250, that would be the one Pitster also stopped selling.
They also offer some small pit bikes and likely are sharing Yinhe as the OEM with Pitster.
The STX are obviously Jinan Qingqi out of Brazil.
The 300cc is interesting, the Alibaba site has it with LONCIN in big letters across the head.
I do not think Megelli ever made the other two versions? They must be like whoa whoa stop nobody is buying these.
There was a member 'Tintin' a couple of years back. He was affiliated with Puzey, and he stated that Shuopu Science were not good (not exact quotes)...ok I dug out the thread
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...ghlight=shuopu
Read the thread to see what exactly he was talking about. My guess is Puzey himself got pissed off that Shuopu went and sold his bike behind his back as their own, so went to another OEM, or set one up himself. That new OEM manufactures the 300 and 500, and they probably sold out of the XTR 250 LC bikes as it shows 'discontinued' on their site. I do remember seeing Galaxy XTR 250 air-colled bikes as their more basic line (under the Shuopu XTR 250 LC bikes as their premium line-up) on Puzey's old site.
a quick Google of Zhejiang Feishen Vehicle CO., LTD
http://www.fs-racingart.com/index01.php
They sell RC cars?
There are a lot of “manufactures” on Alibaba that are actually only wholesalers, they set up relationships with factories and agree to sell their manufactured goods for them. They likely never see or have seen the products.
That is why you see familiar models being offered under some strange name you never heard of most of these people only answer emails and will send any order to a factory. I doubt they will even tell you the name of the actual factory, because the factory uses them as a sort of customer interface. Good luck getting any spares or warranty that way. I would say that they use groups that have relationships with transport/logistics/import-export agents, that is who is selling the motorcycles.
There really needs to be something better, a better system. I would like to see it all digital and then factories could enter lists of what they manufacture and then orders would be submitted electronically to the factory.
I think the system of identifying used by the SAE should be the source of entrance into a better system.
http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/groundvehicle/vin.htm
I think that any agency to an OEM should be disclosed and documented. That being what is between the actual manufacturer and the consumer detailed.
I think all the claims of being a manufacturer is unnerving, those behind it seem to believe that more selling translate to more buying?
What amazes me is that the all the related federal agencies are not linked, they do not even cross reference databases.
Basically the SAE (Society of Automobile Engineers) maintains a database of manufacturers, which includes motorcycle manufactures. They assign the WMI (World Manufacturer Identification) and it seems as of 2012 it is no longer free to register. That as a list of manufacturers can be called the primary source of identification of manufacturers of all motorcycles.
All factories requires an interface to the consumer, that primarily is a shipper or import export company. That is who picks up the order from the factory and navigates it through the gauntlet to the final customer. That is what the Alibaba “manufactures” attempt to do or at least arrange that through negotiations with import export companies.
A better model would be a interface that uses the real manufacturers names and then takes orders and then has a staff managing those orders.
The other side of that would be the buyers, they may be individuals or aggregated buyers so the agent could take a single order and price it, then offer delivery based on actual transport traffic, they would primarily be managing a transportation company. Basically filling containers, the key to expediting would be digital data in that pre-approved and linked to all relative agencies, what comes across identified in lists that would include reference links to the proper filings.
I like the idea of global products, that being models that meet all standards of all nations. Then it would be easier to distribute them. Production would feed a warehouse in china and inventory sold and distributed out of that central storage and regulated by a storage fee to discourage factories from over producing. That warehouse content would propagate a catalog from which orders would be submitted. The factory then sets its production to maintain that stock as par levels.
Then each factory should be required to maintain a parts warehouse, that warehouse located next to the actual production facility would feed parts to production and also process customer orders. So attached to the catalog of motorcycle should be the sets of digital documents that include parts diagrams and parts lists that are actual inventory in the linked parts warehouse also maintained at set par levels.
It would be a commodity driven system and with tiered prices based on order sizes.
The parts orders should all pass though a central server that exists as an interface in each parts warehouse for each individual factory. Then as order are placed they get coded and tagged as sold to end-user, sold for stock or production supply. If sold for stock then the vendor code would reveal a remote location and all orders would be filled through the use of distance metrics that being based on were you are located it would automatically submit the order to closest inventory, if no inventory existed locally or in closer proximity then the order would be filled by the warehouse at the factory. Then vendors could mange inventory and make profit because of relative volume discounts that automatically occur. However those vendors would also be required to be licensed businesses and also entered into the system. By doing that they become de facto satellite warehouses. however the factory warehouse would see total stock as total inventory on hand. It would be the central processor of all orders and all orders would be tracked and tagged, some assigned to individual vehicles and in that compile actual real world metrics on reliability. If an order was placed online it would require check boxes for failed part or spare part. Then compiling those and analyzing those it would flag them and then that information reviewed and acted on. High rates of failure would halt the sale.
The SAE list is downloadable, it is a data file. It could be managed as a subset of the WMI that only is used to manage global distribution and support of motorcycles.
I could set up such a system but the initial costs would be very high, the human resources would have very high labor costs, the skill set for such systems costs are primarily 60-75K USD annually per staff member The technology all exists it is a matter of managing the implementation of it.
The EPA is not utilizing the WMI in its annual lists of certified vehicles, in doing that they are disconnected from the NHSTA that requires a disclosure of the agent of process in the USA. The EPA refers to a manufacturer separately from the OEM which is the actual WMI that they do not utilize.
The EPA must use the WMI and also only propagate the “manufacturer” field with what information is recorded with the NHSTA in association or the agent of the WMI.
My contention with the EPA is that they allow any certificate for an OEM that is not legally filing with the NHSTA. In that they are party to the registration of illegal vehicles in the USA.
They are not cooperative or in agreement with that proposition, they claim no authority to mandate the use of the same information. I disagree because federal laws are not agency exclusive.
They are not responding to inquires presenting vehicles that they certified as EPA legal that have been registered in states that are not legal under NHSTA regulations.
I'm going to offer them some time before I send the information out to others, those others would be those that agree that federal laws are not agency exclusive they are actually federal laws and in that all inclusive.
The EPA is not responsible to enforce federal laws that are not specific to EPA regulations, they claim no authority, which is true. However they cannot operate as an agency of the federal government outside of federal laws and in that they cannot offer certificates to vehicle that are not meeting other federal laws. The EPA lists VIN numbers on test vehicles applications that are not a legal VIN under NHSTA regulations. They are or do not contain the leading prefix which is the WMI.
The use of a VIN is regulated and they are accepting a VIN that is not in an acceptable form.
The EPA in doing that is allowing vehicles to pass through a federal system that are not meeting other federal regulations. They need to verify the VIN and that the OEM is actually registered with the SAE and have the required filings with the NHSTA. If they are not then they cannot validate the VIN and they accept on the application.
There are and where quite a few vehicles registered in the US that are not meeting federal regulations.
All manufacturers have to register with the NHSTA and also they are required to label all vehicles as meeting all FMVSS Federal motor-vehicle safety standards.
The safety standards have to be meet and or exceeded for all imported vehicles.
The manufacturers have to acknowledge that and label each vehicle
49 C.F.R. PART 567—CERTIFICATION
Title 49 - Transportation
567.4
(5) The statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(e) The label for motorcycles shall be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post with the handle bars, in a location such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except the steering system.
This what the label looks like….
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/y...Picture006.jpg
Motorcycles have to have that on them and they have to meet all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
I just go on and on.....
Zhejiang Feishen Vehicle Co., Ltd. has an Audit report on Alibaba, they manufacturer. They have a pretty diverse product mix from RC cars to razor scooters to dirt bikes and ATV.
Not sure what the contract Puzey has with them reads but Feishen is offering the 300cc motorcycles for sale.
http://feishen.en.alibaba.com/produc...DIRT_BIKE.html
Interesting find...I hope that Feishen are allowed to offer the bikes. That seemed to be part of the problem with them from their old OEMs, Galaxy and Shuopu.
Well if Puzey has established some relationship with AsiaWing, that would be worth investigating. Not that a 38.5hp 500cc will change the industry but I for one think the Spark 500 is interesting. I would like to see it in a refined and respectable build and also supported.
It does have an EPA certificate….
So approaching Puzey would be best on that model, that being an inquiry as to if he is utilizing them and what are his experiences thus far.
The certificate for that bike is dated 2011 and held by SAMCO Corporation, the certificate number is BSACC.498MML.
Samco Corporation has a location in City of Industry, CA. Samco Corporation has no known officers.Samco Corporation filed as a Articles of Incorporation on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 in the state of California and is currently active. Chi Zheng serves as the registered agent for this organization.
Filings: Articles of Incorporation (CA - Active)
State of Record: CA
State Reference ID: 03249538
Registered Agent: Chi Zheng
File Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010
Active: True
Filing Type: Articles of Incorporation
Source: California Secretary of State last refreshed 10/18/2011
The entry in the EPA database is dodgy as all fuck, thank you EPA :gaah:
The field for OEM Engine is blank, as so are the fields for the source country, the vehicle OEM as well left blank and country as well. The models covered under the certificate are the DY500, FOX500, LD500, ROCK500, SPARK500, that is or would be the only way to find the actual certificate, that being if you new the model names. Is that allowed... to have a listing in a database that does not offer any information or is it something only certain people have and under certain circumstances?
The EPA out sources the management of the data to a private company…..I am looking very close at that! I am not exaggerating it may actually be intentional or unintentional the inconsistency in that data. But it is very suspicious that applications are being accepted and issued that are very very questionable.
I haven't been to Roketa's site for awhile, but they were featuring the Spark 500 a couple years back, although I am fairly sure they never actually sold any, or had any to sell. Shugrant Guo (maybe not the exact spelling) used to be one of the higher ups for Asiawing, and I had some (albeit, limited) communications with him. He had invited me to go to the Indianapolis bike show a couple years ago. I couldn't go, but I told Carl to go, which he already had tickets for. I don't think Asiawing ever actually displayed because Carl would have featured them. I remember one of our China based members here on mychinamoto visiting their factory and riding the prototype Spark and showing photos and videos. For a limited time, the Odes 250 enduro was actually an Asiawing bike that was sold in the US. It was, at the time, one of the very first Chinese enduros with an engine larger than 200cc. One of the chinariders.net members had one, and we never heard from him again (no, I don't think the bike was that bad to make him 'gone' but that has happened with members here and chinariders--they buy one of the new, interesting Chinese bikes, and they never really post again...). The engine might have actually been a Suzuki-sourced engine as they used to brag about a Suzuki connection, but the engines might have been Qingqi-sourced as we later found out about the connection.
http://www.asiawing.com/english/index.asp
What is needed in the EPA database is a field for testing, that being who submitted the application, that being who actually did the tests. Then as for the other identifiers they should be only propagated from the information that comes through the SAE and subsequently the filings with the NHSTA. That being the required legal disclosure of who actually manufactures it and who is the legal entity distributing it.
So that may require going into the federal regulations and adding a section, I could do that and eventually submit it to congress. Simply explaining that these agencies are at odds and this change would synchronize them.
Before getting an EPA certificate a product must have an assigned WMI and listed in the WMI database.
Then that certificate cannot be issued until that WMI has a VIN decoding document and a statement of the agent of process. That agent of process should also require validation in each state systems respectively. Which is typically a license issued by that states office of Secretary of State.
I cannot realize how they stay in business, I have yet to see one of their bike show up for sale through a distributor.
The engine showing up in a Puzey bike surprised me, but it has a carburetor the approved version for the USA has sequential fuel injection. The drop shippers will not touch it, it is to complex for them.
I wonder what they cost?
In the autumn of last year, I inquired Puzey about the XTR4 with the 300cc, liquid-cooled engine. Researching the bike brought me to this site, and the Skyteam Raptor 250 I bought eventually.
Anyway, here is the response from Mike Puzey himself:
Hi Krasi
Thanks for the mail. It is clear you do your homework. In short the XTR-4 is the 4th generation bike I have made, it is the limit of what is possible from china I can confirm that it is just not possible to get better parts and people good enough to make a better bike over there. The 300 is good but I have no plans to make XTR-5 in china yet. Yes we do all the RND in SA where we can test and race the bikes. I’m making the 300 2 stroke here next year.
This bike is “around 2100 US” (depending on the model) from the factory if we ship direct to you containers. It is significantly better that any other fongkong garbage that one sees out there from china.
Has shows forks – Copy KLX 300 engine – Ni Chrome barrel – 118 KG std with no fuel but had BIG battery, water bottle and fan STD – Copy WP rear shock – Molly steel frame and CNC parts holding it together – 7000 alloy rims and other parts – Water proof air box - Sport silencer STD with removable insets - Cam suspension to raise or lower the seat – Brake
Overall it is a great bike and NOT much different from any top brands. In short a great package for the money as you will see if you get one. Makes a fantastic MTD, in SA we sell 8 out of 10 in MTD trim
Hope this helps you
Yours
Mike Puzey
Then I went on to see if I can register it here, and was communicating with Kerry Puzey. She's top notch! Answered all my questions and sent me lots and lots of details: crate dimensions, VIN pictures, certificates for mirrors, lights, etc.
In the end it turned out that here, in Bulgaria, I can't register a new bike that hasn't got a CE certificate. Bummer! Last communication from Kerry was that the factory will finilize the CE certification in 2012.
As soon as they get the certificate I'm getting one of those 300cc motards :)
dear MJH
is this company ,puzey , a manufacturer or some sort of distributer or dealer ?
Nima I think Krasi clarified it?
It is interesting that they are coping the KLX300, the images posted on Alibaba have the engines labeled with Loncin on them.
I really doubt they licensed those through Kawasaki Heavy Industry.
This image is on the Puzey website.
http://www.evopowerboards.com/offroa...4300mx_zm1.jpg
KLX 300
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gal...097%20%201.jpg
It looks like they managed to put the 500cc single into the same frame. I heard that the Asiawing engine gear case breaks down.
There was an importer I believe in Ecuador that was selling them and went off on the engine being total crap.
I wonder how big of an empire can be built on stolen intellectual property?
$2,100.00?
I am not a patent attorney, but most things manufactured inside of the last 20 years may have a patent on them. So if manufacturing something that has an active patent, without rights, can in some countries get you sued in civil court. Then in some other countries, I believe France and Austria, it can even get you thrown into jail, I have read that in some countries it is actually criminal.
Considering that, you then can begin to understand in part why there are so many names being used, so many brands and so little documentation could be because providing that would bring about evidence of a patent violation.
Most of what is coming out of the Chinese motorcycle industry is old technology, I am not entirely sure of the length of patent rights but if they are 20 years then anything before 1992 would be considered open.
However patents have to be enforce, they have to be filed and maintained and are annually renewed.
You or any one could troll patents and even negotiate buying them and then offer only the rights to one manufacturer and subsequently sue the violators and their agents. Those are called Patent Trolls, they are waiting for critical mass to form and then will come out in force. They will suck the capital out of offenders, because violations are retroactive, that being once caught all proceeds for the entire durations are considered recoverable damages.
So it is possible that the KLX 300 was patented before 1992? Then if so they have to make sure it had no revisions and no new patents filed. That is why you sometimes hear the expression older version of an engine.
That being the copy is of a version that’s patent expired, but the original manufacturer updated the engine and subsequently patented the upgrade.
I think that small manufacturers fly under the radar, but if they are all sourcing out of one big one then collectively all of them can be sued.
What is needed is digital filing and to set scales and then analysis of specification to insure that nobody is stealing designs and also that new entrance is not prevented. Before any certificates get offered that should be done first, it should be the first order of operation check for a patents existence.
China dances on the line and crosses it often, it is boiling pot and eventually some are going to get burned.
now my question is : if we want to import this products (a sample up to 250 cc) which company is in charge ? who we need to contact with ? a name or an official website
It is in the first post on the thread the link is there.