Performance CDI for Qingqi QM200GY (Qlink XF200, STX, etc)

A cursory search for alternative performance CDI (capacitor discharge ignition) control modules reveals that the market is flooded with them. Unfortunately they're for the horizontal Honda clones used on everything from commuter bikes to ATV's, pit bikes, monkey-bikes, etc, some of the vertical 125 to 200 cc engines, and for lots of scooters.

There is power and improved running to be gained from an alternative advance curve which is programmed into the CDI's processor.

What I cannot find is an alternative unit for our bikes. The Suzuki DR units are different, at least physically (Why?), and there are no performance units for it anyway. The only bike that shares our unit appears to be the Suzuki EN125. I have done a lot of research into this, including trawling through lots of parts lists. I'm willing to be proved wrong...please!.

There must be a market for this sort of mod, Qingqis and their derivatives with the same 125/200 engines are selling like hot cakes all over the world, and yet, to my knowledge no-one has thought of this lucrative after-market item.

There's even a performance CDI available for my PGO Bugrider 250 road legal buggy and they can't have sold as many of those as the Qingqi bikes.

This is what the original factory unit looks like: Qingqi QM200GY CDI box

I have ben in touch with Gareth at Xian racing. I know he has contacts in the Far East with after-market CDI manufacturers, (they have jointly developed proven good units), and he's looking into it for me. Will let you know if the maker thinks it's a viable proposition and puts this into production. I have of course volunteered for testing, even if I have to pay for the prototype unit.
My sort of test will, of course be subjective, using the "butt dyno", but either the maker or Xian racing could arrange proper rolling road dyno tests.

It's sad that I, being an industrial electronics manufacturer have to do this. I have tried to get our Chief Engineer interested in the fascinating (?) world of magnetos, CDI's, rectifier-regulators, etc, but no dice. He's too set in his ways to change tack now. Perhaps I should fire him...:icon10:

The rest of our staff are willing, adventurous people. Just check out my Customer relations and complaints Manager.

If anyone is interested it would help to make our wishes known here, so I don't look like the only one in Christendom that wants this item.

in Brazil is a model of rounds without limitation specific to stx200 manufactured by servitec
htvenda tp://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-87078462-cdi-sem-limitador-servitec-stx-200-e-stx-motard-200-idi-_JM

Amazing. You've got everything in Brazil...:icon10: I don't know what the revs are limited to on mine. I only take it up to 8000 rpm. I don't really want to rev it much higher, but would welcome a revised advance curve that'll give a little bit of a performance increase.

The problem with this is that what could give better performance is to advance the OVERALL ignition timing. This would mean doing the sensor pick-up coil moving trick. A lot of people have done it on other bikes with good results. It involves filing the holes of the pick-up and moving it 2 mm clockwise with respect to the magneto rotor. I might have a go and do that next time I drain the oil for a change.

Thanks for the link. I might ask Servitec if they've done anything to the advance curve as well as removing the rev-limiter.

I've checked out SERVITEC web page. They make CDI units for all sorts of bikes, including the STX Sundown (Brazilian Qingqi QM200GY). This alternative unit just removes the RPM limit. Its part number is 50.147.15 . Not really what I'm looking for.

What I (We?) really want is something like this one for the Honda CBF250, also called CBX250 Twister in Brazil, part number 50.105.77 that has a choice of 3 rpm limits and 10 different ignition advance curves to try out. All these are selected by a remote control unit similar to a key fob...clever eh?.

http://www.servitecmoto.com.br/zoom/...em%20chave.jpg

This is their CDI page: http://www.servitecmoto.com.br/ignicoes.htm

This is the manual that shows the method of adjustment and the different curves:
http://www.servitecmoto.com.br/Manua...250eCBX250.pdf

The Excel file detailing the different advance curves of another CBF250 unit (part nº 50.105.84) with 24 curves !!!:
http://www.servitecmoto.com.br/Curva...o50-105-84.xls

I have sent them an email asking if they have plans to introduce such a unit in the future for our bikes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forchetto

I have sent them an email asking if they have plans to introduce such a unit in the future for our bikes.

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I'm quoting myself here, but deep down I KNEW I was pissing against the wind...this is the reply I received today:

"Hello Ernesto.
We do not want to introduce a new product for Sundown STX200. In Brazil
there are few owners of this model of Sundown.
We appreciate your contact and interest in our products.
Regards,

Eng. Elet. Marcelo José Rodrigues
Departamento de Engenharia
e-mail: engenharia@servitecmoto.com.br"

"Few" owners of the STX Sundown, when they have a factory in Brazil?, are they aware of all the other names these bikes are sold with all over the world?. Would Sundown have published such an expensive service manual to sell just a "few" of these bikes?. The potential market must be considerable. As manufacturers they should know. Agree?.

It is shameful the way the Brazilian businessmen treat consumers but yes there many QM200 in Brazil and has developed a sevitec cdi fully programmable with data cable and softwere for pc that can be used in many engines they must know they are losing a huge market

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luis Carlos

It is shameful the way the Brazilian businessmen treat consumers but yes there many QM200 in Brazil and has developed a sevitec cdi fully programmable with data cable and softwere for pc that can be used in many engines they must know they are losing a huge market

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I've seen that CDI that is programable by PC as well. They talk of using a sort of universal box and an adapter for different bikes. There's a picture of the adapters and one of them looks as if it would fit the QM200.

Once they have developed the unit that removes the RPM limit on the STX, it can't be that difficult to alter the processor circuits inside the unit to give a different advance curve. This processor is usually one of those PIC16 type and easy to program and alter. The hard work, that is making the alternative box, connector mouldings, etc and the coil firing circuits, is already done. I'm a manufacturer and, we do custom changes to our standard products all the time to suit the whims of different clients. It is called "creating gooodwill" and keeping a customer for life.

It's a shame as I liked the company, it seems young and technically very advanced and adventurous. I even thought about using my company and its structure to distribute their products. Looks like good engineering let down by bad marketing. A little research would have told them how widely these bikes are sold all over the world.

Come to think of it, if they've sold so few, why do they list an alternative CDI with no RPM limit on their site?. Was it worth making one for so few?.

There will be NO demand for a product if it's not advertised and marketed in the proper way, through forums, magazines or just through the Internet using Google ads. Just google for "performance CDI" and thousands come up but no-one has used Google-ads service and without using the word "servitec" they don't come up. This means their very good web page is not being found by search engines.

It's 80 percent marketing. Marketing has the amazing power to sell total crap to millions of people. Woe is to any new or small business that doesn't try to understand and use the fundamentals of marketing...this certainly includes manufacturers.

CC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forchetto

I'm quoting myself here, but deep down I KNEW I was pissing against the wind...this is the reply I received today:

"Hello Ernesto.
We do not want to introduce a new product for Sundown STX200. In Brazil
there are few owners of this model of Sundown.
We appreciate your contact and interest in our products.
Regards,

Eng. Elet. Marcelo José Rodrigues
Departamento de Engenharia
e-mail: engenharia@servitecmoto.com.br"

"Few" owners of the STX Sundown, when they have a factory in Brazil?, are they aware of all the other names these bikes are sold with all over the world?. Would Sundown have published such an expensive service manual to sell just a "few" of these bikes?. The potential market must be considerable. As manufacturers they should know. Agree?.

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I received a response from Servitec:
Good afternoon,
First thank your contact and ask forgiveness for the delay in responding.

In time for the Sundown STX 200 make the original model and the model without the spin limiter.

Anyway, I will forward your e-mail to the engineer to evaluate the possibility of developing a programmable CDI for this bike.

Regards,

Vanessa Cicconeto.
Sales
Servitec Electronics Industry Ltda.

:rolleyes1:

Fantastic.:clap: Thank you Luis Carlos.

Perhaps if we send them the list of alternative names the bike is sold with all over the world, they'll realise how popular this range of bikes has become.

Xian Racer is getting one developed at my request by the usual supplier of theirs in China. Gareth has informed me that it will be available for testing in about two weeks and will be sending me a unit for trials.

The problem is that this speed has been achieved by the usual Chinese method of "development". This has consisted of me sending Gareth a photo of my CDI unit, he has forwarded it to his Chinese supplier, who, in his tea break, went by the Qingqi spares depot and bought a standard factory unit.

From that he says it has developed a "Racing" version and made ten prototypes. One of them is on the way to Europe (and me!) right now.

They haven't specified what they have done to the advance curve to warrant the "racing" label though, but I suppose they know what they're doing...:rolleyes1:

The list of alternative brand names is at this thread, post number 2:

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76