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Can anyone recommend a decent quality full face helmet that doesn't cost a fortune?
I'm looking for a cost effective helmet for riding that isn't just a plastic bucket. I'm talking a helmet that has a replaceable visor, and would be safe enough to save me at high speeds such as would be seen at the track. I'm sure there are decent enough helmets being produced somewhere in China that would be at least close to U.S. DOT standards?
There are a couple of threads in MCM about helmets, and where to buy them in Shanghai.
I'm a fan of the HJC IS-MAX, a modular helmet that is under $100.
Start with Flip Front Helmets You'll see these are available widely in Shanghai, with a large selection at Chemichen.
Then there's Bike Gear in Shanghai and leather, textile, mesh --a sobering report
Apart from the HJC's, you'll find Nolans and Cabergs and many others.
By the way, search and advanced search in MCM are not very good. I often start with a google search that includes what I'm looking for and adds the search term mychinamoto. Give it a try. There's a ton of excellent info in MCM just waiting to be discovered.
cheers
euphonius
Not related to helmets but a hint for your google search: Adding "site:mychinamoto.com" (or any other domain) to your google search limits the results to this page.
'Tanked' helmets are OK. They aren't DOT rated, but that's probably just because they haven't been rated. Reasonably light, very available not too noisy. Just make sure you blackmail the seller for at least three spare visors, usually 20-30 yuan each. Don't buy online because of the fitment issues. I'd much rather have a cheaper helmet that fitted well than a more expensive one that didn't.
Other than that buy something higher end, but then you have to spend lots of money on hard to find expensive visors, which won't be available unless pre-ordered. These days you can buy an exotic Arai helmet for a very reasonable price, because they know they'll gouge you on visors later. Printer and game consoles business model.
I have bought a couple of these LS2 helmets for about 300RMB for me and my wife that have the flip down sunglasses inside. A tad heavy, but very comfy inside. I also like how it dampens the noise of those blaring truck horns at times. There are some sellers selling them even cheaper. I think it is DOT certified?
http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm...d55e27b&pm_id=
Replacement visors 40RMB
http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm...d55e27b&pm_id=
It seems to have worked well for me, although my only real test so far has been slamming my head into the asphalt and sliding on my face at about 60km/h - not exactly racetrack speeds. If you're planning on racing then I wouldn't skimp on a helmet. Also what ZMC said about sizing is also true. You could get away with ordering and then returning a helmet you buy from Taobao until you find the right size I guess. A bit of a hassle but...
I think the Chinese head shape being wider more than longer, there is a real need to try before you buy. In most shops I found that all 90% of the helmets were large or XL. Pleading was needed to source small and medium sizes, with near commitment to buy. There is an advantage though as you can add your extra bonus visor order at that time. So it may be a case of trying on many helmets that are too big and then buying one on order from the shop or online the next size smaller and hoping it fits well.
I tried my helmet out at the shop before I bought and ended up with an XL. Bought my wife a L from the above shop and it seems to fit her well. It's just a little snug for me, but I can wear it. Her head is relatively smaller than mine too. I was thinking for sure she would be an M or S, but we using the sizing and measuring guidelines posted online and it seemed fine for her.
Very good to know about using good to search the forum.
HJC seems to be the lower end of my choice but a quite decent buy. I have a half helmet/bucket DOT rated I wear now that I can give to a pillian passenger.
Marushin helmets have a great safety rating and have alot of high quality features for around 450 to -650RMB. Higher end models go into about a 1000+ but that's still great for the helmet quality. A couple extra visors and I"m good to go. Here is the Marushin 888 I want.
If anyone can give me a good source of well priced visors for Marushin helmets that would be awesome. I want one mirrored/polarized, a yellow one if possible and a clear one.
Has any one used this LS2 Helmet
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-L...340798475.html
I found it also at this link http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm...aId=&q=ls2+455
I looks like it has adjustable air pump bags that you can use to get a custom fit?
I never liked the idea of a peak. I thought that it would add noise and drag. Three of my mates have the Zues
http://www.offroadexplorer.com/Produ...us_Review.html Which I can t find on the Zues website
They all rave about them as being quiet helmets and the visor is brilliant when riding into the sun. They all use them for both road and offroad.
The Zues reatail in Australia for close to AUD $300.
I figured the LS2 might be worth a try?
Regards
I cannot speak to things like half-helmets that leave so much of your head exposed, but I can speak to full-face helmets vs modulars: Once you've used a modular you'll never want to go back to a standard helmet. The convenience of being able to keep your helmet on yet being able to talk, eat, drink and see more widely during breaks cannot be overstated. As for safety, virtually every major helmet manufacturer has embraced the concept, and many have DOT and/or SNELL ratings.
There's been some good discussion here in MCM and elsewhere about the relative merits of paying more for a helmet, particularly those costing north of US$400. The general consensus has been that the difference between "helmet" and "no helmet" is far vaster than the difference between "cheap helmet" and "expensive helmet." Expensive usually means quieter, more comfortable, more features; whether it means greater safety is a question of some contention. Your brain is basically a big soft sloppy mush, and no shell no matter how expensive will prevent it from getting severely jostled and rammed up against the inside of your skull when your head goes from 60 to zero in an instant. But in a slide, or a glancing blow, or the kind of hit that comes when the bike comes out from under you, almost any helmet protects your head far, far better than no helmet at all. In all of my getoffs, most of them benign but a few of them rather violent, I've always been grateful to have been wearing a full-face modular.
So this question of "good quality" in a helmet is a lot more complicated than merely a discussion of price or features.
cheers!
euphonius
these LS2s have ECE 22.05 certification. They seem like a good value for money but i found some info that the weight is 1900g.... really bloody heavyQuote:
Originally Posted by whitworthsocket
I think these are worth a try and are DOT certified
In a high speed crash, above 40mph.... a modular helmet will not hold up as well... However, most of the time it is barely needed.
I have a modular LS2 and the HJC IS-Max (without BT compartment). The HJC is way better than the LS2, opening visor/front on HJC works much smoother, sun visor on LS2 can easily come down a bit by accident for example (impossible on HJC). Price of HJC is only slightly higher.
As for price vs quality: for example you can get the HJC IS-Max for about 600 RMB now, I came across it in Europe last time I went home for € 189 (about 1600 RMB). Prices obviously don't always tell everything about quality when it comes to motorcycle gear/equipment, and are often based on location.
As for safety I guess any approved helmet should be good enough. In my optinion most important are 1. comfort and 2. price! You can buy the most expensive high tech helmet because some motorcycle guru reviewed it as the best helmet he ever wore, but if it feels uncomfortable on your head then that is a distraction and you can forget about all the other details that make it a good helmet. I say: "go for comfort!"
So i dropped my HJC is-max helmet for the 3rd time (I know, Im an idiot) and the part thet you can flip slightly changed shape and now its bit windy inside. Well, normally it wouldnt be a problem but the stream of air goes directly into my left eye causing it to dry! F***ing annoying and makes it really uncomfortable to ride. So Im looking for a new helmet.
The HJC has been really good but bit noisy and windy. I found this Marushin helmet which looks interesting. Anyone had any experience with it? also do you think its genuine? Tmall supposed to be more reliable then taobao but TIC. Its cheap too. Found it in Europe for RMB1500
Actually seeing how much lighter and quieter a proper full face is, the comfort of being able to talk eat drink isn't worth the extra weight of the modular system.Quote:
Originally Posted by euphonius
My modular was Caberg Justissimo GT, maybe it's that model that's just heavy though... Wouldn't recommend those. And it was over 1000 RMB. A friend threw it to me but threw it short, the thing hit the ground bad. I actually was happy to go and shop for a regular full face after this.
- - -
Now regarding OP's post, don't u buy a Chinese helmet.
I don't get how saving 500 RMB is more important than saving ur head? What are u gonna do with ur 500 when ur head is a puddle, buy a gold spoon to pick it up? Nor do I get how 500 is more important than everyday's riding comfort.. No DOT certification => fake helmet, period.
Don't buy on Taobao either, trying it is essential, and even if trying all helmets in the shop u still may have noise level and poor aerodynamic fatigue surprises, crappy airflow...
To try it best, sit down in the shop, lean forward as much as when on ur bike, shake ur head; it should "stick" the skin of ur face and move only as much as that around ur skull. The top of the eye opening should cover ur eyebrows, then its chin shouldn't hit ur shoulders when u check ur dead angle with ur arms raised as high as if holding ur handle bars. Should feel light. Should be a TINY bit too tight as pads are gonna soften up a tiny bit with time. I like double D strap as they still don't do safest ones, although it's a pain to fasten with gloves at times, the time it takes gives u a few seconds to focus, to empty ur mind of everything else than the road, to enter the "I'm now riding my bike" concentration and state of mind, and I like taking those 10 seconds and fasten it slowly before I start the engine, as I crashed a few times within seconds after starting, not since this helmet though.
Read some reviews online! Then go and try as many as u can here and pick according to safety rating, then comfort, price should be the last factor.
I think 2000 RMB is the minimum u should be ready to pay to get a "cheap" real helmet.
It's not just having DOT certification, it's getting a helmet as close as possible from maximum safety rating for as minimum $ as possible.
Same thing goes for ur back plate, minimum 1000 RMB, and read lots of ratings.
Peace.
you could always buy 2 sizes on taobao and then send the one that doesnt fit you. I did that before and had no problems with the seller. I live in a small city......well its small in China but still bigger then capital of country Im from, there is no other option then buying online or traveling for few hours to a big city
Braillce, are you sure you know what you are talking about? DOT, Snell, CE are just various certifications for helmets used in different countries. Not having DOT simply means that the helmet hasn't been tested by that organization in the United States. So if I was selling a particular helmet domestically in China why would I go through the trouble and cost of getting my helmet tested by an American helmet testing organization?Quote:
Originally Posted by braillce
Helmets are just a thick layer of polystyrene with a harder outer shell made from plastic or fiberglass. Are you sure you are not just paying out money in the hope that more expenditure will protect you better? Surely the costs of many of the higher end helmets are to recoup the cost of fancy marketing and rider sponsorship?
Anyhow the smart money looks like getting a HJC helmet as they are made in China but have DOT and other certification (depending in what country they are sold). But maybe buying and fitting one in a shop back home (to ensure it's not a fake and to get the best fit), then buying new visors on Taobao for 45 yuan instead of being gouged for more than ten times as much in a western shop.
Oh.. I didn't mean Snell and CE are fake certifications, just that no certification at all is absurd. Although I don't really trust Snell (SMF) because of their history. CE is the same as DOT to me.
Helmets are NOT just a thick layer of polystyrene with a harder shell of random plastic... Come on.
Now to answer u, I'm not sure that I ain't paying more $ on the hope that it'll protect me better, how can I be sure? I can't before I crash the exact same way with each helmet on. Now I did read comparison in magazines and tests where people actually submitted different back plates to the same stresses before I bought one. I don't really remember how I picked my helmet, but I sure won't go for the coolest brand because it's out of price and fashionable, believe me I'm picky, and that's for foreign products.
Regarding Chinese products, I've bought some before, and so did you, they had all sorts of certification, what is ur general conclusion regarding these products?
To me they were cheaper, but lasted surprisingly little time and were much more prone to catastrophic explosive failure than any other product I bought that was designed in the awesome foreign world. So it ain't just cheaper cause hand work force is cheaper in China, it's also cause they have tendencies to flirt with the limit of certifications, with the limit of plastic needed for something to fill it's intended purpose and not any bit more, or managed to escape real testing somehow.
Even of certified DOT, SMF and CE, I'd never buy a Chinese helmet, if it was given to me I would say thanks but would never use it, nor give it to anyone I like, not to anyone I don't like for that matter, I'm not that cruel.
I guess yes it is belief, as I have no proof that DOT certified Chinese helmets are bad.
But I've seen where industry cuts short here, I'm not putting any $ in that machine anymore, ever, and even less than ever when it's a product that can mean life or death for me.
This isn't being responsive to fancy marketing. Although yea I have a nice AGV and bought an extra visor in the shop for 120 RMB.
Don't u make a thread crying out loud about ur unbelievable bad luck when ur 45 RMB taobao visor flies off and decapitates your pillion passenger.
Braillace, I sum up with: buy HJC. Now it's got a 45 rmb visor but it's not gonna fly off and kill my pillion because it's the same helmet as used by Jorge Lorenzo twice 250cc and twice Motogp world champion.
Chinese helmet, famous in western countries yet has western safety certification, sponsor a champion but Chinese visor prices=Have your cake and eat it.
Attachment 14965
Oh...
I just realized what have ur cake and eat it means..
Thought u meant smthg like shut up.
Which I will as u did make ur point.
if someone gives me a HJC I'll wear it with pride...
This isn't the first time we've covered helmet quality in MCM. There's a lot of serious research out there testing what actually happens to your head and your brain upon impact, and I can boil down the results with basically two conclusions: 1) wearing a helmet -- any helmet -- is infinitely smarter than riding without one and 2) the differences between helmets of varying "quality" and cost are more pronounced at lower speeds, while at higher speeds, these make less and less difference, especially in a blunt impact collision (as opposed to a sliding or tumbling getoff). Think of your brain as really just so much gelatine inside your skull. It's soft and squishy, not rigid like bone or fibrous and controllable like muscle. Upon impact, especially a blunt impact with extreme deceleration, inertia causes your gelatinous brain to get slammed up against the inside of your skull, causing intensive blunt-force trauma, tearing, ruptures, etc. Your helmet might take that collision with flying colors, and might minimize skull fracturing, but your brain inside probably will be hemorrhaging badly and swelling rapidly, thus causing even more damage. Yes, having the helmet helps, but all the expensive gel or soft padding in the world won't make much difference because it's the instantaneous deceleration that causes the damage.
Blunt impact at slower speeds probably can be better mitigated by the "superior" materials of a "better" (more expensive) helmet, but it's not really rational to expect a linear relationship between expense and protection. A 2000 rmb helmet surely is not "twice" as safe as a 1000 rmb helmet. Folks spending 5000 or 6000 rmb on a helmet are deluding themselves if they think this provides exponentially better protection than an 800 rmb HJC.
One final thought about full-face helmets vs flip-fronts, with the caveat that this is my own unscientific theory: While the full-face might provide marginally better protection in a violent collision because it doesn't have a flip front that might fly open, I think I'd rather be in the flip-front in the aftermath of an accident when paramedics (OK, this is strictly hypothetical here in China) want to get the helmet off of my head. With a full-face, there's probably no alternative to cutting it off, which probably costs a lot of time, while with the flip front it may be possible to remove it safely with minimal additional damage to my head, neck and spine because it DOES come open and perhaps can be pulled apart.
I remember ChinaV, myself and others posting about some of these issues in an earlier thread.
cheers,
euphonius
I Have that helmet and it is way nicer than I thought it would be . I ride all year round up her in Canada . So the only issue I am having is the outer shield tends to fog up . Not unexpected though , with the shield just propped open it stays clear . That is one thing that it has in spite of that . It does stay open even at 80 mph . They fit tight . I ordered a l and an xl . I had a friend who was interested he takes an xl . They fit one size small or at least half a size . I am in the xl as the large was to tight . and of course I have the large now , never been used . My wife uses a medium but i am not convinced yet we are going to try when the weather suites her . Everything works good on it though . Easy to manipulate the outer and inner shield while riding off road with gloves on .
Attachment 14977
I was about to buy a HJC Lorenzo.....
Attachment 14967
http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm...6f13c1de0bde55
TIC so I asked for 4 spare visors. Spare visors? No chance. What, I'm supposed to throw the thing away after the visor get's scratched in a month? So alas I'll not be spending my money on this.
I find that it isn't too hard to just show them the helmet you're looking for and you'll be able to get a pretty similar one. HJC are surprinsgly easy to find http://www.motorcyclehouse.com/hjc-helmets.htm
but higher end stuff is pretty much limited to boutiques. Of course you're not going to be riding as fast as you would normally so... I guess a reduction in quality might be okay.
So I decided to get the HJC Lorenzo. In the end the Taobao seller decided it was better to go to the trouble of providing spare visors in order to make a sale. :thumbsup:
According to my Chinese friends helmets in China break down like this.....
1. Imported. Made elsewhere in the world, helmets are expensive, and may even be fake, new visors will cost a a lot of money 400 yuan plus if you can find them.
2. Quite a few high end brands are made in China...HJC and AGP are amongst them. Much less likely to be fake than imported brands because those companies hate small timers trampling on their territory, and will send in the mafia. Also visor prices are held down to a reasonable 150 yuan level, DOT ratings etc.
3. Lower priced helmets made in the same factory, for example HJC has a junior brand Cirus or non exported not DOT rated helmets, visor prices for an even more reasonable 40-45 yuan.
4. Other cheaper helmets.
Clearly just because a helmet is 300 yuan doesn't mean it's any less safe that a 1200 yuan helmet. It may well be made in the same factory from the same or similar materials or even be the same shape. The cheaper helmets won't be DOT or CE rated, but that isn't any indication those helmets are unsafe, just that domestic models haven't been tested by those organizations.
One reason I'm buying an exported HJC is because I want the possibility of doing track days and having test rides back home.
I ordered the HJC Lorenzo and it arrived yesterday. Put it on...perfect around the crown (as I measured my head first) but about 2cm off from my cheeks so prone to flapping in the breeze. Sent it back. Smaller size wouldn't work as it would be too small around the crown. With it being that far off from the cheeks I think it could well have been fake.
So HJC is a no go for a westerner in Asia, as in the Asian market they have especially designed their helmets for people with heads shaped like deformed chipmunks.:icon10: May buy one back home and bring it to China as I like the cheaper visor option. In the end the internet is just not the place to buy a helmet, especially if you're the one paying postage.
Helmets are not only made to measure/fitted based on a wearers skull circumference but also on head shape referred to as 'helmet internal shape'... if you've poor understanding on the subject check out any number of sources such as webbikeworld...
Just because the HJC helmet you received didn't appear to fit snugly against your 'cheekbones' does not necessarily indicate that the helmet is a 'fake'.
'Could well have been fake' not 'was definitely fake', but 'could be fake' pretty much describes everything on Taobao. 2cm on each side? I'm taking about being able to shove a 400 page softback book under each cheek when wearing the helmet? In terms of helmet parameters it's a country mile, so much so that is an extreme internal shape. So far out that I worry there is some manufacturing flaw or it is fake. Now it could be that because many Asians have deformed craniums from parental deformation during infancy that extreme shape will in fact fit many Chinese extremely well, it's just not within any shape I've ever come across before and I've owned around 10 helmets and tried on hundreds.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerdoc
At the end of the day there is no point buying helmets online, imagine going to a shop and being asked to pay 60-100 yuan per helmet before you found one that fitted. Unfortunately that's what you are doing when buying online. The thing that sucks is there aren't really any local helmet shops with anything better than I already have in my area.