ChinaV's Galaxy XTR250 & TGR250!

[ChinaV]

Thanks for the update China V, i really appreciate it
Hmm fuel injection eh ? Hope that won’t over complicate things ?
I notice on Franki’s bike it has what looks like an up rated red rear brake pedal...do you know if that’s standard on the new bikes now, or an upgrade specified by Franki ?
I really love the look of that TGR 250 as well , it wasn’t on their website when I placed the order for my XTR, if I’d have Known about it, then I would have ordered one instead of the XTR...oh well, never mind
Cheers
Andy

Andy, they do have special CNC brake and shift levers, the price was around 30 USD each, I tried to get some, but the red ones are out of stock at this time. You could buy the TGR for motocross, but it can not be registered in Europe yet because of emissions. I think the air cooled is a much better choice for reliability at this point. No idea about the FI, but a small single cylinder engine should be pretty easy to dial in the FI. On the good side, you won't have to worry about re-jetting for those massive 5000 meter mountain passes in the UK

Nice to the see the racks on there with the extended tank. Couple of comments though...

1) Are they going to level out the rear rack?
It levels out a bit when the suspension compresses under load. As far as I know, the boys will be using soft luggage instead of hard cases.
2) How about widening the last 3/4 of the seat?
The seat is a little different than stock, but still pretty narrow for touring. I bought an extra and intend to make it wider, I have seen some nice DRZ400 seats that look good for touring.
3) The saddle bag standoffs may perform better if they are several inches forward.... 2 main reasons being better weight distribution/mass centralization and less danger of the exhaust pipe hitting any saddlebag material coming over the rack.
I don't think they will have any problems with the exhaust, but you're right about the position. Unfortunately the bike is so short in the seating area there is not much room to move things forward.
4) Does the alternator have enough output for auxiliary lighting?
Franki said they boosted the alternator, I'm going to try and get one today.
5) Much of the extended range fuel tank looks like it's below the carb/fi unit. Is there a fuel pump on the bike?
Yes, the bike uses a pump.

Here is my stock XTR with no racks or exhaust to give you an idea of the sub-frame. Not a lot to work with for making rack mounts.





And this is the fuel pump.



I think franki is on a trial run to Hainan this week. Be interested to hear his thoughts when he returns. I will be over at Galaxy today, feel free to let me know any questions etc.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[Andy Hird]

Hi China V

Thanks for takeing the time to give such a detailed reply...it's much appreciated Mate

I love the CNC'd brake and gear lever option, I think I'll go for that option on my bike, if you see Lydia could you ask if she'd put those on my bike ? If she gets in touch with me I'll sort out the additional payment.

I haven't heard from her for a week or so, so I'm a little concerned how my bike's coming on

Cheers

Andy

[CrazyCarl]

Andy,

While it's definitely good to keep following up with the factory, don't expect stellar communication from these guys. Have you gotten any firm ship dates yet?

CC

[Andy Hird]

Hi Carl,

No, not yet. I sent an email to Galaxy this morning asking for an estimated completion date.

Hopefully I'll have a reply waiting for me when I return to work tomorrow morning.

Cheers

Andy

[CrazyCarl]

CV,

You're right about the mountain bike like frame. Now that I've seen the seat rail design, I'd seriously question it's true enduro capabilities.

My main concern would be in carrying the tremendous amounts of luggage we haul into the hinterlands on those 2 part aluminum seat rails. How thick it that metal?

With only four bolts holding that last tail section to the rail, I'm thinking after 20k kilometeres of bad roads and up to 100lbs of gear bouncing up and down on the top rack and side bags, these would eventually snap like toothpicks (or at least bend) and leave someone without a way to carry their luggage to a place for repair. Another wonderful alternative is the bolts could shear and would need to have new ones welded on since they're only single sided. For motocross or day-trip trail riding I'm sure it would be fine but long distance is long distance and the rules are different.

Maybe they could weld the rails together after the bolts are installed?

Just my .02...
CC

[ChinaV]

CC, you hit it right on the head.... way too much leverage for just a couple of bolts. Although the aluminum is nice, a steel subframe would be much better for making luggage mounts. Also much easier to repair with standard welding tools out in the wild. We'll see how it holds up on franki's bike I'm sure he'll give it a good thrashing.

Another little progress report......

I finally received my registration, insurance, plates etc today. Many thanks to the people at Galaxy for helping out. If your residence permit in China has less than six months remaining time, you can not register a bike . In other words, if you live here full time on a working permit and residence visa, you can only buy a bike during half the year. Seems a bit strange to me, but that was the hoop the registry made me jump through.

I've got a bit of a tire collection going for the QingQi and the XTR. Franki got some Kendas I hadn't seen (K280) so I grabbed a set when I visited Galaxy last week. Gave them a test over the weekend and really like the performance. It's shocking that you can buy an entire wheel, hub, spokes, bearings, brake disk, sprocket and tire for less money than one Bridgestone or Metzeler for my V-Strom .



You can find the Kenda K280's online for around 500 RMB a pair, slightly more expensive than some of the other Chinese DS tires, but maybe worth it. Franki had a bit of bad luck and punctured his, so the jury is still out on the long term value of the K280. We do agree on the Eternal Rise / Kings Tire KT966 still being an all around decent DS tire for China.

Next on the agenda was trying to sort out the sprocket and gearing issue. One of the things we all like about the QingQi QM200 is its clear connection to the Suzuki DR200. It's easy to find aftermarket parts when you're referencing almost any model from the big four Japanese companies. The lineage of the XTR is not quite so clear with it's 5 speed 223cc engine.

I'm guessing the motor is made by Loncin, and the design is based on a Honda. Exactly which Honda is a long story that started almost four decades ago when they introduced the 90cc Benly CB/SL series. Over the years, the same basic design was bored and stroked across the various CB ATC XL XR SL TLR FTR CRF families of 125/185/200/230cc motors. So far, I've found five models that are the likely "inspiration" behind the XTR powerplant. Based on designs from Honda Brazil, the FTR223, SL230, CB223, XL230 and CRF230 all share the 65.5×66.2 bore and stroke of the XTR, but depending on year and location, some are 6 speed and some are 5.

A little more digging and I found the SL230, FTR223 and XL230 share the same engine ID of MD33E, the CRF230 is ME09E. The FTR223 and XL230 have the same 5 speed gearbox so I believe these are the closest match to the XTR engine. If this is true, then the countershaft sprocket for the XTR should be the same as any Honda FTR223 or XL230. Why go through all that just to change a sprocket? We'll get in to that tomorrow when I share the results of some various gear ratios.

And for any of you agreeing with this or still reading along… I wonder if the 6 speed tranny from the other engines will work in an XTR?

Cheers!
ChinaV

[ZMC888]

I think you are probably right about the engine's Honda history, but is it definitely Loncin who make it? Still could be one of many manufacturers!

If you are keen to use the bike as a street motard maybe some Cheng-shins might be good. Or maybe Sakura, if they have the right sizes.

p.s. Does the bike wheelie easily, or does it need clutch?

[ChinaV]

I think you are probably right about the engine's Honda history, but is it definitely Loncin who make it? Still could be one of many manufacturers!

If you are keen to use the bike as a street motard maybe some Cheng-shins might be good. Or maybe Sakura, if they have the right sizes.

p.s. Does the bike wheelie easily, or does it need clutch?

It takes a bit of clutch, but it does get there.

I'm still puzzled as to the origins of the engine. There are dozens of articles about the QingQi partnership with Suzuki and many mention it as a selling point. If these engines are based on Honda technology, why don't the factories promote or even mention it?

I have 17" motard wheels for my QingQi and the XTR. What do you think is the stickiest thing I can get that's produced locally? Don't really care about mileage as they would just be for fun.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[ZMC888]

If these engines are based on Honda technology, why don't the factories promote or even mention it?

Honda designs are either out of patent, stolen blueprints or leaked blueprints. Remember that Jialing had the first joint venture with Honda? Then they stopped making Honda badged bikes. But then lots of engines such has Honda 125cc singles and the 125cc twins and 233cc singles and 234cc twins started popping up all over China. Did Jialing sell off Honda blueprints? Or did Honda sell the blueprints themselves through Jialing? There are even 125 and 150cc twins in China. Nobody would bother to copy those engines unless they had blueprints for them.

I have 17" motard wheels for my QingQi and the XTR. What do you think is the stickiest thing I can get that's produced locally? Don't really care about mileage as they would just be for fun.

I'd go for Cheng-Shin, my rear will probably do about 10,000-12,000, so that must be pretty soft. Remember Cheng-Shin are part of Maxxis, so those tires have some worthy technology in them. My rear is 15 and front 18, pretty wierd for a street bike so obviously your tires will be different. I did see some very pretty Cheng-Shin tires on the Shineray 233cc Road bike recently (the unfaired version of the Ninja-esque looking thing). They are marked CST not Cheng-Shin (but they are Cheng-Shins though!)

A friend of mine has used Sakura on his rear and says he thought it was pretty sticky. I have to say I find the name 'Kingstone' a little disturbing! But the tires could actually be OK!

[kingdm54]

Not to hijack this but i have not seen an update from Franki(or I missed it). Have you heard how the bike is holding up?

I saw one of the new Shineray 250's in town last week and it looked nice, But it might be a little to new for long rides.

http://www.shineray-atv.com/dir.asp

Sometimes simple it the bast way to go.