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  1. #21 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    iamcanjim,

    I agree with you, on most points!

    They are all based on Honda CMX250 Rebels, specifically the Japanese Domestic Market edition. Therefore, unlike US Rebels, they have twin carbs and the disk brake is on the right on the single disk models.
    Correct! Unless they are the Regal Raptor road bikes, in which case they are based on CB250Ns, with some home grown technology inspired by later Hondas such as CB400 or Hornets.

    As you go along the line, various mods have been made to the original design. Water cooling, boring the engine out ot 300 or 350 cc's, etc.
    Maybe, but there were some original Honda 350 twins (320cc), many years ago. Could be simply bored out 250's though, not sure. Water cooling is fairly orginal with these engines though.

    my suggestion would be to try sitting on a DD250E, the air cooled basic Honda Rebel clone. Simpler (so less to go wrong) and the frame and chassis are definitely properly engineered. My Rebel easily hits 120 km/h, so it is certainly fast enough. Having ridden the water cooled 250, I found the increased mass and complexity did not make up for the slightly increased power
    Possibly, my suggestion would be that Regal Raptor engines are inferior to the Jialing/Honda engine in your bike (when new), and ideally need at least oil cooling to give optimum power in hot weather. But water cooling may be too much weight, agreed.

    The Spyder is probably too raked out to be able to avoid brain dead Chinese pedestrians.
    So true!

    Finally, the monoshock RR's just plain don't seem to have the rear shocks to deal with the weight 2 up.
    Very true, disk brakes and a monoshock may seem ideal, but in reality it really depends on the quality of the parts used, much less than what 'it is' in theory. But the twin shocks aren't that wonderful either!

    So, in short, I think you should consider forgoing the water cooled 350 engine for the aircooled 250 and should forgo the spyder for the twin shock 'chopper.' This is based on riding my rebel and trying a water cooled chopper.
    If he was able to test ride the Daytona, Spyder, and 'chopper', for at least 10 kms each, I'm sure would be able to make a good judgment about which bike is right for him, sadly, this is China and this may prove impossible .
    Without consciousness, space and time are nothing; in reality you can take any time -- whether past or future -− as your new frame of reference. Death is a reboot that leads to all potentialities.
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  2. #22 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
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    It's actually funny, my Rebel is actually not as nimble as my previous Suzuki GZ150. I think it's the higher weight and the increased rake. I know when I ride the bike lanes (I know I shouldn't, but it's China!) I am working a lot harder than Nuhaus on the GZ.

    I have noticed Jialing is producing bikes with GZ copy frames and CMX copy engines. I wonder how well that will work.

    I actually ending up replacing the Honda engine in my rebel with a Chinese engine. The crankshaft had about 3 mm of play, and the rings were shot. I would have preferred to replace the rings, pistons and crank journals, but I didn't think my mechanic would be able to do it right. So I got a new engine for the same money.
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  3. #23 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMC888 View Post
    iamcanjim,

    I agree with you, on most points!



    Correct! Unless they are the Regal Raptor road bikes, in which case they are based on CB250Ns, with some home grown technology inspired by later Hondas such as CB400 or Hornets.



    Maybe, but there were some original Honda 350 twins (320cc), many years ago. Could be simply bored out 250's though, not sure. Water cooling is fairly orginal with these engines though.



    Possibly, my suggestion would be that Regal Raptor engines are inferior to the Jialing/Honda engine in your bike (when new), and ideally need at least oil cooling to give optimum power in hot weather. But water cooling may be too much weight, agreed.



    So true!



    Very true, disk brakes and a monoshock may seem ideal, but in reality it really depends on the quality of the parts used, much less than what 'it is' in theory. But the twin shocks aren't that wonderful either!



    If he was able to test ride the Daytona, Spyder, and 'chopper', for at least 10 kms each, I'm sure would be able to make a good judgment about which bike is right for him, sadly, this is China and this may prove impossible .
    Anyone care to nail down exactly what motor is in the Spyder 350? Anyone got any experience with these? Where can I get a technical manual on this motor in English? I tried going to the Raptor club website, but it ain't in English so it does me no good.

    Is there a upgrade to the rear shocks that will allow for comfortable one-up and two-up riding? Care to share that mfg and part number?

    Power for the bike is not a concern. I am an experience machinist and engine builder. If there is more power in there, I can find it when/if I want to. If there isn't, I know how to modify cams, headflow, stoke, bore, etc. to get more. I also can do a complete transplant of a bigger motor. There is plenty of room in the engine cradle.

    The Daytona is nice, but I prefer the longer front end. I'm not worried about the brain-dead Chinese pedestrians. The amount of riding in dense population will be very minimal and loud pipes will help. I know it will not be a cure, but it will help. I'm not a crazed biker. I pay attention to my surroundings and do my best to anticipate the stupidity of the masses.

    I greatly appreciate the help!
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  4. #24 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
    Senior C-Moto Guru culcune's Avatar
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    LH, have you contacted Johnny Pag? They are in the US, and have a good reputation for their re-badged Regal bikes here (although they are a little pricey), so should be able to shed some light on the bikes for you.
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  5. #25 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
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    Yea, I sent an email. Also, reading his site info, JP's have a JPM 300 engine. Does this stand for Johnny Pag Manufacturing? Is it the same engine as is sold in the bikes inside China? Questions! Questions! Questions!

    I like to know what I am getting into before I get into it. Nothing is happening until I can find the info I need to make a logical, fact-based decision.

    For those that have one of these bikes, where did you get a repair manual?

    I have searched for hours and hours and have not come up with a site that has any repair/technical related material. It is all "fluff and wow".
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  6. #26 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    Anyone care to nail down exactly what motor is in the Spyder 350?
    Just did that, it's a bored out CMX250 engine (bored to 320cc).

    The amount of riding in dense population will be very minimal and loud pipes will help
    If you think that avoiding pedestrians is a city only problem, you are misleading yourself. Many rural areas have chickens, dogs, children, old people and so on, who may run out into the road at any time, plus the surface of the road is covered with gravel, sand, dust and so on. This is why most people who choose to ride in China, do so on a dual sport, motards or regular road bikes.
    Without consciousness, space and time are nothing; in reality you can take any time -- whether past or future -− as your new frame of reference. Death is a reboot that leads to all potentialities.
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  7. #27 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
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    ZMC...I have ridden all over the world. I seriously doubt that anything I will encounter will be any different than riding in rural India or Pakistan, Thailand, the P.I. or even most places in S.Am.

    I am well aware that there will be obstacles. I didn't hit any in the other countries, so I am fairly confident that I can avoid whatever gets in my way in China.

    One thing that would help this bike immensely is to get rid of the raked triple tree. It throws the rake and trail way off. It adds 5 degrees to the rake. A 37 degree rake would be easier and safer.

    And yes, I was riding a chopper, not a little baby light-weight one as this is, but a full size Harley with a 38 degree rake and before that a KW 900.

    I'm going back to Jin Mo tomorrow to see if I can order a repair manual in English and to look some more. Perhaps I will take a look at a Daytona if they have one. I will also discuss deposits, licensing and other concerns with them if I can get them to understand what I am saying.

    I may have to enlist the help of a bi-lingual friend to go with me if I am unsuccessful.
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  8. #28 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
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    Sounds like you know what you doing. Keep in mind many questions on this site about riding in China are asked by newbs to motorcycling who have not experienced different types of bikes and/or 3rd world roads. Therefore, were are not being condescending, we are just trying be informative.

    Sound like you know roughly how much power you will get, have an understanding of effects of rake and trail as well as ground clearance.

    Back to your specific questions.

    The engine one that bike is a reversed engineered and then enhanced bored out CMX250 engine. Somehow the Chinese have added water cooling, using the expedient of adding a water jacked to the cylinder sides. It's a SOHC 2V per cylinder design. Cam is powered by a chain on the right side. It's a 360 degree crank, non counterbalanced. It's vibey, and not in a cool way like a vtwin. It should have a reline of around 9000 rpm.

    It will have dual carbs, copies of a Keihn design, same as on a JDM Honda Rebel. In fact, virtually any Honda Rebel part will fit your bike, including crankshafts, valves, cams, etc. The exception are the pistons, as these are larger. I have heard rumours that the pistons are actually copies of another Honda
    engine.

    Parts in China are a bit of a problem, as generally mechanics don't use part numbers, etc. To upgrade my rear shocks, I took the bike to the mechanic and had him show me shocks, which I inspected and played with until I found ones I liked.
    The engine stock will put out about 20 hp at the crank (if the stars align). The engine is made by Dadyw.

    Johnney Pag is the US distributor for RR, and have a lot of resources about them. In the UK the distributor is AJS.

    Assuming you have lowered you expectations (this isn't a harley, or a big4 bike) it's a damn good bike, especially for the money.
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  9. #29 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    LH1953,

    I have ridden in Nepal, India, Thailand and Laos, but not Pakistan. I can certainly tell you that in China unfortunately people seem to have less situational awareness and understanding of road craft than in other countries. There are some massive differences, such as the Indians, Nepalis, Pakistanis and Thais, all drive on the left! The Thais are streets ahead of most Chinese in terms of spatial awareness. Indian cities are quite often busier than Chinese cities, but the Indians have a much better understanding of the speed and direction of other road users, and are constantly looking around and making calculations about where other people are. Certainly stray animals in the road are a danger all over developing Asia. The main difference seems to be education, other Asian countries teach some version of safe road use from childhood where the Chinese do not or do not teach it properly.

    In England we have the green cross code:

    1. THINK! Find the safest place to cross, then stop.
    2. STOP! Stand on the pavement near the kerb.
    3. USE YOUR EYES AND EARS! Look all around for traffic, and listen.
    4. WAIT UNTIL IT'S SAFE TO CROSS! If traffic is coming, let it pass.
    5. LOOK AND LISTEN! When it's safe, walk straight across the road.
    6. ARRIVE ALIVE! Keep looking and listening.

    This simple code taught properly to young children, saves lives. It may be confusing that even adults in China don't know this, they just run out into the road.

    Everyone is telling you, that the rake on the Spyder is too long for Chinese roads. So are you going to chop the frame and buy new shocks to give it less rake? The problem with the bike you have chosen, is that it is heavy and too raked out be usable on Chinese roads most of the time. You can ride the bike here safely, but you will be forced to ride really slowly through every city, village, and down every road with a questionable road surface. Most of the time a good rider on a 125 will be quicker than you in nearly all situations, other than going up a hill, on a slight curve, or in a straight line.

    With these Chinese bikes, what makes the difference is stuff like putting proper springs and fluid in the forks, getting imported tires, changing brake pads to a better compound, getting better wheel bearings etc etc, not trying to find a few horses that probably aren't there, and that you'll probably be unable to use anyway.
    Without consciousness, space and time are nothing; in reality you can take any time -- whether past or future -− as your new frame of reference. Death is a reboot that leads to all potentialities.
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  10. #30 Re: Regal Raptor DG-350E-6 
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