Regal Raptor DG-350E-6

[LH1953]

LH1953,

I have ridden in Nepal, India, Thailand and Laos, but not Pakistan. I can certainly tell you that in China unfortunately people seem to have less situational awareness and understanding of road craft than in other countries. There are some massive differences, such as the Indians, Nepalis, Pakistanis and Thais, all drive on the left! The Thais are streets ahead of most Chinese in terms of spatial awareness. Indian cities are quite often busier than Chinese cities, but the Indians have a much better understanding of the speed and direction of other road users, and are constantly looking around and making calculations about where other people are. Certainly stray animals in the road are a danger all over developing Asia. The main difference seems to be education, other Asian countries teach some version of safe road use from childhood where the Chinese do not or do not teach it properly.

In England we have the green cross code:

1. THINK! Find the safest place to cross, then stop.
2. STOP! Stand on the pavement near the kerb.
3. USE YOUR EYES AND EARS! Look all around for traffic, and listen.
4. WAIT UNTIL IT'S SAFE TO CROSS! If traffic is coming, let it pass.
5. LOOK AND LISTEN! When it's safe, walk straight across the road.
6. ARRIVE ALIVE! Keep looking and listening.

This simple code taught properly to young children, saves lives. It may be confusing that even adults in China don't know this, they just run out into the road.

Everyone is telling you, that the rake on the Spyder is too long for Chinese roads. So are you going to chop the frame and buy new shocks to give it less rake? The problem with the bike you have chosen, is that it is heavy and too raked out be usable on Chinese roads most of the time. You can ride the bike here safely, but you will be forced to ride really slowly through every city, village, and down every road with a questionable road surface. Most of the time a good rider on a 125 will be quicker than you in nearly all situations, other than going up a hill, on a slight curve, or in a straight line.

With these Chinese bikes, what makes the difference is stuff like putting proper springs and fluid in the forks, getting imported tires, changing brake pads to a better compound, getting better wheel bearings etc etc, not trying to find a few horses that probably aren't there, and that you'll probably be unable to use anyway.

No, I'm not going to chop the frame. Apparently, you are trying to tell me about a bike that you know nothing about. The neck is 37 degrees. To get the 42 degree rake, they use an offset triple tree. To reduce the rake back to 37 degrees, all it takes is a set of matching (not offset) triple trees. This would be done if I decided that 42 degrees is too much rake. One of the biggest problems of offset trees is that it makes the bike very unstable at low speeds. The forks want to flop to one side or another with very little enticement. Once the rake and trail are back in alignment, the bike becomes stable again regardless of the rake. There are states in the U.S. that outlaw raked trees because they are dangerous. The stock rake of 37 degrees is plenty and it is an easy and cheap modification and looks-wise, it will be hard to tell the difference....but low speed handling will improve by leaps and bounds.

I understand your point about China and motorcycles. I'm not a newb to riding. 40 years of riding and still alive gives me the experience and the right to make my own choices. I would dare to say that I have more experience on a bike all over the world that 99.9% of everyone that has even rode in more than one country. I have been riding since I was 12 and I have ridden extensively on every continent.

I just spoke to one of the other owners of a Sypder here in Chengdu. I am going to go ride his bike around tomorrow and see if I like it. He has two bikes so we are going for an all-day cruise.

As I have already said, I'm not going to be riding all over China. Just Chengdu and the closely surrounding areas. Probably will never make it more than 100km from city center. I'm just not into long distance riding anymore. Too old, too tired, too lazy.

As I said in a much earlier post, I am not doing anything until I know everything there is to know about the bike I choose. Today, I go back to the dealer, tomorrow I go riding, then there will months of more research to follow; more questions, more riding, more questions.

Thanks for the info on the motor. Now I know exactly where to go to chase down the specs.

One other question....cars in China have a pre-set life span. 12 years, if I was told correctly; then you have to scrap them. Do bikes also have a pre-set life? Does anyone know what that is?

[ZMC888]

No, I'm not going to chop the frame. Apparently, you are trying to tell me about a bike that you know nothing about.

I have actually ridden the Spyder 300, it belongs to the boss of the local Regal Raptor dealership. I didn't notice the offset rake, just that there was a lot of rake! I don't have much interest in cruisers, to be fair. I can't imagine enjoying riding the bike in the mountains, or trying to use the front brake on a dirty road, but I like to push on, and lean the bike around in tight mountain bends, with a few knee and peg scrapes now and again.

I understand your point about China and motorcycles. I'm not a newb to riding. 40 years of riding and still alive gives me the experience and the right to make my own choices. I would dare to say that I have more experience on a bike all over the world that 99.9% of everyone that has even rode in more than one country. I have been riding since I was 12 and I have ridden extensively on every continent.

I'm not saying you are a newb to riding, and you may be a very experienced rider, but you haven't ridden in China, so you still have a lot to learn about riding here. Lots of experience, particularly in Asia does put you at a massive advantage when compared to those with none in Asia, or worse are trying to learn here. You are somewhat damaging this advantage, and putting yourself at more risk with a bike that is so heavy and raked out, but that is just my opinion.

....cars in China have a pre-set life span. 12 years, if I was told correctly; then you have to scrap them. Do bikes also have a pre-set life?

Probably less than cars, but then again, if your Chinese bike lasts 12 years, well done!

[LH1953]

HAHA...did you notice that the front wheel had a mind of it's own at low speeds? THAT is the instability caused by the raked trees! Get rid of those raked trees and it is an entirely different bike.

Riding a raked front end bike is very different than what is needed to ride a corner carver, that's for sure. I did my corner carving in my younger days and if that is your thing, more power to ya and I hope you stay in one piece. No matter what you ride or your riding style, the same rule applies...Shiny side UP!!!!!!

I will give you that China is a different beast..a different planet if you will...I think I'll be OK with whatever I decide to buy.

Yes, tires, shock oil, springs, suspension tuning will do wonders for any bike, even a chopper and that is the first thing I should look at no matter what I buy. Power is nice to have, but it is useless if you can't get it to the ground and will in most cases, get you into trouble if you aren't set up to handle it. I don't think power will be an issue with this road toad (Spyder). There are ways to get a chopper to handle well, it is not overly expensive, but it can be done. It will never handle as well as a sport bike or even a standard street bike, but it can be made to be predictable and stable at any speed. Fork braces, good tires, the fattest tire you can get on the front rim will improve it immensely. Proper shocks, spring rates, etc. All doable with a little research and some trial and error parts swapping.

One thing I have always done to any bike I have ever bought or built is to adjust everything to my height and reach. If this means swapping handlebars, risers, ride height, peg locations, then so be it. If the bike fits you, you are always in a better position to control it no matter what and it is infinitely more comfortable.You can't alter your body, but you can make the bike fit you. Becoming one with the bike instead of sitting on a machine that you have to contort yourself to ride is always better.

When I get back from my ride tomorrow, I'll post my thoughts on the Spyder and it's ride through and around Chengdu.

[ZMC888]

did you notice that the front wheel had a mind of it's own at low speeds?

I noticed serious instability, but my main worry was the position of the controls, especially gear shift and rear brake in places I'm not used to!

It will never handle as well as a sport bike or even a standard street bike

In fact sports bikes are as useless in a city as fully-laden, fully raked-out Harley FLT with a fat chick and a dog on it. They are really good at what they are for which is taking a pre-planned corners on an empty road or racetrack, but that superman riding position doesn't help avoid a sudden pedestrian or bicycle well at all! A poor choice of machine in China, in the unlikely event one could be found with real registration and insurance.

[LH1953]

As promised, my results of the trip to the dealer and my impressions of the Spyder after an all day ride.

First, the dealer...no Daytona in stock, couldn't look at anything but the picture. Secondly, the 350cc bikes are not legal in China yet. The 300cc bikes are, and they are currently being sold in China. The dealer told me that the reason they don't have a Daytona is that it is a new model and the factory is exporting them all. They can't get one. Can't even get on a waiting list. So, the Sypder is the only choice if I want a Regal Raptor cruiser/shopper. The Spyder 300 they have in the showroom is a 2007. I checked out the VIN plate. Clear as day..2007. Been sitting there for almost three years...don't want that one!

Ok, now the ride. I met Lucas at his home and we had a cup of coffee and then headed out. I, on his Spyder 300 and he on his wife's Raptor NAC 250.

He lives in the SW part of the city, so we headed out of the city to Xinjin and rode around the streets there for awhile. Then we headed back through Chengdu and out to Dujiangyan. It is still a mess from the earthquakes in 2008 and the roads are OK, but crowded as there is still a lot of roads closed. The parkway from Chengdu to Dujiangyan is nice, very smooth, not crowded and we opened them up a bit for a nice cruise. Got up to 125 KPH for a bit and then settled down quickly as town was coming up fast..

After we left Dujiangyan we headed back to Chengdu and rode around the 3rd ring and then into town from the opposite side of the city. I think we did about 320 Km in 10 hours.

Now, my impression of the bike. First, the front end since that is the main concern as related to China riding. The rake is OK, but I think the raked trees got to go. I can do just fine with a 37 degree rake. Don't need that extra 5 degrees that the raked trees give. At anything over 20 kph, you don't notice any difference, but below 15 kph, the front end has a mind of its own and it can't make up its mind. The slightest imperfection or flaw in the pavement makes the front wheel want to turn...quickly! Riding with both hands on the bars is a must at that speed. This could get a beginner in big trouble very quickly. Low speed stability would be greatly improved by getting rid of the raked trees.

Second, I noticed that the front end is light. This is to be expected from a raked front end. The front wheel is just too far away from the mass of the bike to be supporting much of the weight. A quick and easy fix for this is what we did back in the 70's. Increase the unsprung weight of the front end by dropping lead bars..about 10 pounds down each fork tube. If I remember correctly, that would be a 100% lead bar 1/2 inch diamter and about 10 inches long. Now, by doing this, the weight on the front wheel is increased and the more downforce is applied to the front tire. Before doing this, the raked trees have got to go or the problem becomes worse.

The ergonomics of the bike is good, but for my height and arm length, the bars need to come up and back about two inches for supreme comfort. Easily done with taller risers. The risers are rubber mounted and the "buzz" is not even noticed in the bars with the addition of the foam grips. You can see the vibration in the mirrors, however. They are useless. You can tell something is behind you and that it is moving, but that is the extent of it.

The seat is good. This bike has a two-up seat. For long distance riding, I would get a gel pad to stuff under my butt.

The rear shocks are full of butter. They are mushy to say the least. Two-up would bottom them out almost all the time. They definitely need an upgrade.

Didn't really push the bike...how do you push a chopper? The tires seemed OK, but they are a hard compound. Maybe last a long time, but better tires are something that would improve the safety margin in a hairy situation. The rear tire is too big for the weight of the bike. It makes the bike look good, but it also has so much traction that it wants to push the front end when going through a curve. The weight I mentioned adding to the front end would help this problem, but it won't make it go away. Perhaps a one size larger front tire would help if it would fit. This is a common problem with fat tired rear wheels and skinnys up front. If you own a bike like this, you know it and you take it into account when going through a curve.

Shifting was smooth and easy. Never missed a shift and the feel is very positive. You can feel when you are "in gear". There is a positive stop on the shifter ratchet. The clutch pull is soft. You would never get "clutch hand" no matter how long you stayed in heavy traffic. While the clutch springs are soft, the motor cannot overpower the clutch. I did my best to force it to slip and couldn't do it.

The engine (300cc) is not bad. It is small and you know it is small when you are trying to accelerate, but its really not that bad. Throttle response is crisp. You can more than get away from the traffic that is with you at lights and it really picks up after 6,000 RPM. However, you get to 8,500 RPM damn quick and then it runs out of steam. Besides some good head work, fuel injection would do wonders for this thing!

From my experience with motors, I can tell from the torque curve that when they made the engine displacement bigger, they didn't do anything with the valve size, runner sizes or cam. There is more power there. A lot more power if the work is done right. I could easily take this motor and get a reliable 35 HP out of it. Probably not needed in China, but those in the U.S. and Europe could benefit from the increased power. A good machinist could port match/gasket match all the mating parts and smooth out the runners, possibly put bigger valves in it and it would really wake it up!

This motor/tranny combo would really benefit from a 6th gear. 5th gear is not overdriven and even a .90 overdrive would really settle the bike down to a comfortable RPM when cruising at freeway speeds. Can also be done by changing sprockets, but that changes everything in every gear.

All in all, I liked it. In town, I didn't have any problems dodging pedestrians, although I'm sure that one day I will encounter the pedestrian that thinks he is in a circus shooting gallery and turns around and goes the other way just as I am thinking I am clear of him. Stop and go traffic wasn't a problem. The brakes are good. rear brakes are enough to stop very quickly at anything less than 30 KPH and the front brakes are too big. They haul you down in a big hurry. Easy one finger pressure is all that is needed during normal stopping.

As I said, the 350cc is not available in China yet. It may be available when the 2010 model comes out. I will not be ordering until probably February or March, so I will wait and see. If still not available at that time, the 300cc will be fine. I like it!

[ZMC888]

the 350cc bikes are not legal in China yet

Maybe haven't done the CCC certification yet, or would cost 5000 to register due to their displacement size.

The Spyder 300 they have in the showroom is a 2007

You could try for a massive discount on it, but they'd probably prefer to wait for some schmuck, and chance a good price. Also 2007 model probably has loads more things wrong with it than a 2010 will.

the raked trees got to go

Amen to that!

The rear shocks are full of butter. They are mushy to say the least.

I think Regal Raptor have added some extra coils to the springs of their latest models. Hopefully your 2010 will be firmer, enough to cope with two. Still a good upgrade though, if you can find suitable shocks.

[LH1953]

According to the lady I spoke to on the phone at the factory, the paperwork is in process and it should be soon. China is 18,000 years old, so we all know what the definition of "soon" is! The dealer couldn't answer my questions so they called the factory and a nice lady gave me all the info on the Sypder and the Daytona that she had.

I don't want a bike that has been sitting for three years, no matter what the discount. I can just see the warranty hassles that come into my imagination.

The raked trees are only an extra 5 degrees, but that is enough to change the personality of the front end to the point that I'm not wanting to have to be so "on guard" about it at slow speeds. If I'm going slow, there is a reason. I don't need additional issues to have to deal with at a "surprise!" rate. Going back to the neck degree of 37 degrees will be fine. It is an easy (maybe one hour of work) fix.

Like all bikes, I think there is probably something that each owner would change if/when they can. Whether it be handlebars or shocks or whatever. In this case, I hope the shocks are better on the 2010, but if not, I'm prepared to go shock shopping.

Equal matching trees, handlebars/risers, mirrors, shocks and lead bars would be the first order of business...

Now we wait until spring..if nothing better hits the market, then I will be a Spyder owner in March...

[CrazyCarl]

Shock shopping in China is great fun! Since everything is so "open source" there's tons of different shocks available esp. if you have a dual shock rear end... you could even lift/raise the back up a little if you wanted to make the steering a little quicker.

CC

[ZMC888]

Where I am there appear to be many of types of shocks. They look good, but on inspection they all seem to be the same length (320mm), but I need 280mm. If anyone knows the effect of adding 40mm onto the rear end of a twin shock bike, please tell me. They are probably made in the same factory but have different colors and stickers on them. One Chinese biker suggested the best twin shocks for my bike available in China would be second hand shocks from a CB400 or something similar.

[CrazyCarl]

To be honest, one of the best bikes for China would be a Nighthawk 250. My first Chinese bike was basically a Nighthawk 250 frame and plastics with a 150cc Honda type push-rod engine, cast wheels and front disk brake. Great cruiser/standard geometry was comfortable in traffic and on the highway for my 1.8 meter height.

Before leaving on my summer trip I put on new fork legs which were maybe 10mm longer and swapped out the rear shocks for stronger units at least 20mm longer. I really appreciated the extra travel on the back end which was wonderful to have on bad roads carrying a load - not to mention coming off curbs or broken pavement.

The Chinese/Taiwanese shocks aren't the best in the world but they are cheap to replace and usually stronger and better than the garbage that comes with the bike. Japanese bikes don't even come with good shock at times ...same with some premium European bikes as well.

Only down side was the Nighthawk's design doesn't allow a really solid luggage rack...which caused serious problems deep in the hinterlands. Even still though, she was a great bike for China...sigh..good ol' Cannonball.

Jialing makes a JH-250-2 Which is basically a Nighthawk 250. Worth looking into if you're at all interested.

CC