Chinese Hardley - what is, who makes, where get?

**Oengus** · 01-25-2010, 01:33 AM

LOL

It does not look so good in this picture

**davidqc** · 01-25-2010, 10:02 AM

WOW! This thread has suddenly exploooooded with new posts....what button did I press?

**ZMC888** · 01-25-2010, 01:47 PM

The Shineray 250c deos not really have a 250c engine, it's actually 233cc or 223, similar the website is kinda broken, but I have seen this bike in a shop. It's actually the same bike as the Ninja 250cc copy just un-faired. I have to say it does look better constructed than my Regal Raptor. As a result it only puts out 12KW, which is inferior to a 249cc bike like the Qingqi.

**Oengus** · 01-25-2010, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by davidqc

WOW! This thread has suddenly exploooooded with new posts....what button did I press?

sorry my bad.

**Oengus** · 01-25-2010, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by ZMC888

The Shineray 250c deos not really have a 250c engine, it's actually 233cc or 223, similar the website is kinda broken, but I have seen this bike in a shop. It's actually the same bike as the Ninja 250cc copy just un-faired. I have to say it does look better constructed than my Regal Raptor. As a result it only puts out 12KW, which is inferior to a 249cc bike like the Qingqi.

Which raptor do you have? I like the FX-3 I really wonder how well they are selling in the US? Pag is only selling the choppers, and they have or claim 300cc bored out versions? http://www.johnnypag.com/

I like the Shineray, the naked version and if it was under $3K out the door with a 2yr warranty and supported by a dealer I would consider one.
But I would also need to hear good things about it....not all raving but somethings that would compell me to buy it. Like fun to ride and relatively problem free or just that any problems were quickly resoved without undo grief.

**Oengus** · 01-25-2010, 03:07 PM

I’m not of the school of thought that something needs to be more than what it is, a 1973 Vega can hold a 3.5 liter engine but its designed to hold a 1.8 if I wanted a Camaro then I would get one.
Why say they need to make 400cc or 500cc bikes if they have QC problems with the 200cc bikes? Bigger investment for the same scenario?
Then all these brand names, wow good luck building a reputation I think.
I would say test the hell out of it, and not in the American consumers hands. Then put your name on it and stand behind it. If that bike is reliable then it would sell in the US if priced low to get the name out, to get it moving. Rushing faulted products into the market and profit seeking will result in being chased out of the market. The consumer has a big mouth and can type into global forums.
We are not getting the best they have are we?

**ZMC888** · 01-26-2010, 06:35 AM

Oengus, we on here have been trying to buy/find out about/ test ride/help develop for free/ Chinese bikes for years. The fact is that most Chinese companies sell the cheapest bikes possible and improve their bikes by drip feeding processes over the years and provide minimal backup overseas, many are reluctant to remove the plastic cover from their seats for a test ride particularly at dealers, and even at the factory!

There are however exceptions and the knowledge exists to make bigger bikes that people in semi developed countries such as Brazil and Russia are very interested in, as well as riders in western countries who are looking for commuter bikes, or a bike to learn stunts on. How many Ducati riders would want a 250cc single as a 2nd bike, but a 500 single? Anyway the exceptions are that the Chinese already manufacture loads of reliable 400-650cc single engines, mostly for quads, Loncin for BMW, Jialing for their own bike and so on. So no, there is not much difficulty in making bigger bikes, if people are willing to buy them for the extra cost.

**ZMC888** · 01-26-2010, 06:52 AM

Oengus, about the Shineray, certain bikes' popularity takes hold in different countries. I think the Shineray has taken a foot-hold in Indonesia. Anyway it looks good, but not much is known about it.

In China the market is even more narrow for Chinese bikes than what they actually export. My choice was limited, but as I wanted a twin after years of singles I got the Raptor DD250G-2. There was a Galaxy 233 single, Zongshen 233 single and a Qingqi 249cc single as alternatives, and obviously the Shineray. I'd love to test all the bikes first, but it's unlikely here! Also the dealer backup is also very important over here, as many are reluctant to provide adequate service.

Yes there are certainly some quality issues with my regal raptor, but consider it was cheap. Also the choppers they make are much better quality than my road bike. $1,400 (US) OTR.

**Oengus** · 01-26-2010, 03:41 PM

They do send bikes over for testing? They send samples to prospective distributors. Your interests are not interesting to them?
They want to know if you will buy part of their excess production capacity, they will some that is make what you design. But that comes from the top not from the bottom.
They have been dumping not the best on the US actually the worst, I can see it. They have been dumping the excess production; they use third party traders to do it, it’s a numbers game for them.
Some have gained access in different ways, it’s the highest volume buyer that can and does control and influence them, not the grass roots consumer feed back. Which is actually what is killing them.
Increasing the displacement changes nothing, is the Hyosung selling more GT650’s or GT250’s seriously that is something to consider. Why did they change the riding position on the 2010 GT250? Why did they increase it performance? The number one selling new bike in the US is the Ninja 250. How does the report compare to the larger Ninja? Is it 2:1.…10:1 it costs what for that data? It’s free if you can hack in…LOL
If you want to see the sales in the US count models on the show room floor. The mid range is very fat and very competitive and rotates a huge volume of well made garage trophies. The mileage low and the condition great.
It’s about small commuter bikes, low prices and being able to order them online. It’s a refined version of what the multiple brand distributor are doing.
Demming might call for a pull systems with JIT , MRP and ERP….it’s a process before it’s a design or a new design. EOQ’s and poisson tables that’s what is missing white collars not blue collars they have the later in droves.

**ZMC888** · 01-30-2010, 01:09 PM

Clearly you have an understanding of the American market Oengus, but thinking that relates to the rest of the world is a bit of a leap of imagination....

Using the Ninja 250 as an example is not a good argument, this is because the Chinese cannot make high revving sportier multiple cylinder modern type Japanese engines. To compete with a Ninja 250 they need to manufacture 500cc singles. 40 year old Honda engine designs, which make good generators and water pumps and are usually 223 and 233cc not even really 250cc will never be able to get anywhere near a Ninja. A Chinese 233cc single produces almost exactly half the amount of power of a Ninja 250, that's on a good day!