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  1. #21 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Oh you know what the Daelim VJ250 is getting the water cooled 250 four valve with FI.
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  2. #22 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
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    http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automo...=true&AdOnTop=

    Again, nice bike but $au 6500 .... plus stamp duty and on-road costs!

    I can get a new Honda VT750 locally for $8900 plus costs ... and that is a 'made in japan' Honda what is more - so why wouldn't I save and get three times the bike for half as much again?

    I think some of these dealers are being stupid, they will get a few sales and then lose out as usual before creating any real market, hopefully having purchased themselves a nice big house somewhere. There are always enough fools wanting a flash-looking machine will buy from them.
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  3. #23 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    $5,999.00 in New Zealand
    http://www.recreationalvehicles.co.n...spx?ID=1069564

    Too much here in the USA; that bike is not worth that much….it would never even be considered at that price.

    The Hyosung GT250R sells for $3,799.00 http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/prod...e&model=GT250R

    The Kawasaki Ninja 250R $3,999.00
    http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/pro...ns.aspx?id=359

    Then you have the Meggelli 250R $3,399.00
    http://www.bennche.com/product/Megelli_250r.htm

    All things being equal what do those models sell for comparably in Australia?

    Daelim is unknown in the USA if they offered that bike here it would have to be priced well beneath these other similar bikes.

    I think that the 232cc naked model would sell if priced close to $2,300.00?
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  4. #24 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
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    Hyosung GT250R $au 6990
    Kawasaki Ninja 250R $au 7499
    Meggelli 250R $au 5000 - hard to find, this is a qlink UK/JAP/China mix apparently?

    I shall stick to the Kinlon, got it for $2000, it will do for now.

    I was in fact going to buy the naked Shineray before my China trip and take a run of a couple thousand Km as a practice for gear and well, me - but the reviews are so mixed and prices so inflated it isn't worth the investment, I shall maybe look again when I come back to Aus.

    We do not benefit from near parity of dollar unless we buy online ourselves 9and piss off the dealers even more), these prices are fixed from when it was about 65 cents. The dealers haven't heard of hedge funds!
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  5. #25 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    I doubt that anyone in the USA will ever have much confidence in the water cooled 250. That engine comes from many sources and its to difficult to trust the wholesalers in such huge production environment as they have in china.

    I like it and would like to see it with the water cooled engine and naked, but the price would take it to close to the other brand to be worth the risk. I suppose in production environs that crank out so many bikes and sell them all over the globe control and accountability becomes elusive?

    I found this and it made me think….bikes in the mall? One in every mall and one service center in each region. I think its possible to pick up and delivery too.
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  6. #26 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
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    I would indeed like to see bikes taken from the hairy-chested workshop/showroom we have in so many towns in Aus and displayed and sold like this. Perhaps if they were, a gradual sales increase to mainstream buyers would arise. I would also expect a modular repair/replacement system - "Something wrong? Certainly, no problems, we shall just slot in a new one, just have a coffee while you wait sir or madam."
    The workshop would then test, isolate problems in their own time or just scrap/return depending on component price. Labour is always the highest cost here except where prices are inflated on parts. If the engines etc. were serial numbered but not to any machine, then swap in and out would work.

    My local chainsaw shop was doing it for years with machines, until someone kept a record of the numbers and complained. They found it easier and cst effective to just have a few working models and spend any workshop downtime on fixing up where necessary! Customers were amazed at the fast service (always next day) and lack of problems, always a new/recon engine and only cost wa sfor new sprocket/bar/chain where necessary, always suggested clearly BEFORE the service/repair. It was found to be illegal now we have to wait a week or more for parts, wait for diagnosis, pay through the nose.

    Thus I devised my own methodology, a cheap chinese chainsaw, extra bar, six chains, five years work expectation (200 cubic meters firewood plus regular fire-danger brush/tree clearing). Then I found they actually last eight to ten years with that workload at least. so costs come right down for me. Thus I have gained two spares, one in car for clearing fallen trees (happens a lot in local tracks I use), one in shed ready to go. I never have to argue or wait, quality of these tools is almost on a par with well-known brands and they take the same size/quality consumables. Unit cost of production of finished product, firewood, let alone the other work is about 40% local retail if I include my labour!

    So, I am stretching the point but this could apply for motorcycles as a sales/service model and work! Sell in the Mall, instant service/replacement, very low fees or yearly 'extended warranty/contract' option for no-cost roadside service, etc etc etc. Also the sales of accessories would sky-rocket in such an environment and brand recognition would be instant and positive!
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  7. #27 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Dell used that business model for short period of time, they had kiosks in malls that held no inventory, everything was ordered online and then shipped.

    Before they could open or display in malls they would have to have centralized service centers. Then they could allow costumer to select service levels al-a-cart. From basic warranty to full service that included pick-up and delivery services with all scheduled maintenance pre-paid for a defined duration.

    Then it is also a matter of aggregate purchasing from a variety of manufacturers and consolidated distribution.
    One warehouse per state and then one service provider with certain populated geographical areas, basically wherever there are malls.

    Parts are stocked in service centers and also in central distribution centers. Central distribution could also operate a trade school and get access to federal education grants, basically training in small engine mechanics, inventory management and sales and customer service.

    Technical schools are nothing new they also often offer onsite housing and in this model they could also work in the warehouse and intern at various service centers across the state.

    Dell shut down the Kiosks and now sell their computers in big box retail stores. Gateway tried free standing stores and failed.

    These products that being small motorcycles and scooters may not offer enough volume in sales to cover the cost of mall space. But they could be located in walking areas old neighborhood storefronts in areas with high traffic. I would say retro scooters and CUBS as well as small displacement full size motorcycles.

    The service center could also offer rider training, if people want a test ride they can choose a model and take training on it for a fee.

    Low costs but with fees that are $50.00 to $100.00 slipped in for training and or scheduled service.

    So on the Chinese side it would be a matter of tailoring selected products for the North American market then the cooperative distributor would evaluate each models and then select the best ones to sell, they would also establish and work on technical documentation and inventory management of parts. Centralized warehosues and consolidated transshipping.

    One of the biggest problems is model changes and then support after that, the Chinese would be wise to create classics that are not to trendy, changes are disruptive interoperability of parts is a very good way to control costs.

    Unfortunately mainstream Americans call motorcycle riders organ donors, parent have a breakdown on children that want a motorcycle and many adults cannot operate a motorcycle they would crash, panic and then crash if they even tried to get on one. I am not sure if I would want them on the road with me?

    So malls and the mainstream is not likely but storefronts are possible and maybe very large superstores with a service center on a highway interchange? Online showrooms and a fifty mile service area with pick-up and drop off service.

    They would have to do local advertising, cable channels locally and local news papers. That is why distributing by state could be affective, learning and knowing the local markets and also state titling and registration processes.

    If the central distribution was in a state capital the could theoretically lobby for favorable legislation. Limiting direct shipping from outside the state with out proper support? They could also work to streamline processing of titles and registration.

    Then if linked to education...universities could analysis local markets for the potential to manufacture or perhaps assemble domestically.
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  8. #28 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    think the Chinese may not realize how small the north American market is for motorcycles. There is not enough room for to many players.

    200cc priced around $2,000.00
    250cc “ “$2,500.00

    That about the baseline for their market, going beyond that they would have to have better established distribution and brand name recognition.

    One entity could define that one consolidated international distributor offering services on both sides of the ocean.

    There is one advantage to state by state distribution, each state has it own legislative body, and part of that is a BMV that can and does offer statistics on registrations by brand and model, I can literally get a data feed of all models on the road in my state with a one year lag. I can see who buys what and where. That can be used to target tastes and models by region.

    A large national distributor with administrative and warehousing faculties in each state or the most densely populated states. Finding the correct mix to distribute to each, specially going after certain models.

    The under 250cc is limited but it has a defined number in each state. They could own that segment if approached strategically and then enter higher market after establishing brand name recognition. That will never happen with OEM brand and especially not with so many coming and going offering nearly identical models.

    This all calls for the Chinese government to finance it, and that is not illegal immoral or wrong. They could finance such a venture. The goal would be highest quality for the lowest costs, not-for-profit and to cycle capital. The underling goal is and would be brand name establishment and reputation. Those brand names should and could lead into automobiles.

    The key would be that the Chinese side of the distributor would act as the gate keeper, it would be open to all brands but limit what it allows to go across. The prices are limited to that of the other exiting brands however the ability to reach those prices limited by many factors such a system would be inherently devised to address.

    It strategic and if done well is respected by consumers and also governments, but not by the competition.

    Many of these manufacturers offer other products, generators, lawnmowers, snow blowers…

    That consolidated distributor should not re-brand, they should offer managed brand naming marketing and distribution. That would include information services, inventory management and quality control feed back loops. They can easily make these simple products to be very durable and reliable.
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  9. #29 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Time waits for no one.

    Mahindra Mojo






    Then there is Bajaj



    Honda plans to manufacture the lowest cost motorcycle….$600.00
    They are considering buying up Hero Honda of India.




    My bet is on Mahindra for establishing brand naming in the USA first. Before you will see a Chinese market share in the USA; you will more likely to see and Indian brands gain respect first.

    Last edited by MJH; 10-14-2010 at 02:27 AM.
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  10. #30 Re: SHINERAY IN AUSTRALIA 
    Senior C-Moto Guru MJH's Avatar
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    Here is the TVS Apache 160 it comes stock with a 159.7cc single
    15.7hp @8500 rpm ( that’s not bad for a stock 160cc bike)
    13.1Nm @8500
    Top speed 120kph (75mph)

    There is a performance kit available for that bike…

    It becomes 18.5hp @9000rpm
    15.5Nm@7000rpm
    Top speed 130km (80mph)
    0-60 3.8 secs

    That bike also has a racing version that has 20.6hp and has top speed of 140kpm
    0-60 3.2 secs (86mph)




    The TVS site is very well done….
    http://www.tvsapache.com/180-index.html

    That bikes retails in India for what 70,000 INR?
    That’s $1,580 American!









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