oils ain't oils?

[humanbeing]

...
I would have enjoyed your rave more if it had ended up convincing me that basic ordinary lube of the type millions of cars and bikes ran on for decades at supermarket prices would be OK in the Klingon. I shall not get fully synth at up to $20 litre of any brand or type, not convinced there at all, but will also play safe and compromise using the cheaper mineral + designed for bikes at approx $12 litre rather than $4.50 litre automobile 20/50 off the supermarket shelf.

Traditional diesel "motor oil" (w/o the additive cause cltch slip) runs fine on m/c. ***Beware of the newer API: CI oil that had additive cause cltch slip ***
"red" Shell 20/50 is one of those "traditional" oil ( CF / SJ ) & had somebody in china tested in the bike
Many motorcycle "taxi" runs fine w/ Mobil Delvac 1300 in Sothern China.

[jape]

Thanks for that mate. My Chinese is very poor, sorry, but I tried a translation of that page. I think it means that shell helix auto is fine in motorbike taxis and the Nanfang 125?

[Shell Oil Company red Xili], has run 20 kilometers.
That feeling power is full. The sound is full.
Highest speed 115 yards
The green light shines, the quick accelerator, can begin slightly.
On the machine oil chart, helps to have a look at this machine oil to be what kind of??

Looks pastes the receipt, is one kind of moral excellence

Domestically produced vehicle. Must eat the coarse edible grain.

Lou Zhu black vehicle. Very attractive. .

[ChinaV]

I'm not doubting the collective wisdom of you folks that want to use car oils, but.... My comments were made based on fancy propaganda and test data that people at Motul, Maxima and Spectro oils showed me back when I was working in a motorcycle shop. This was also reinforced by Honda and Suzuki when I went to their tech schools. No doubt these people had a vested interest in selling their product, call me successfully brainwashed.

I would love to see a test of two China moto's and the LONG term effects of auto vs moto oils, then we would have data and not opinion. Being that we have no (few?) members here with high mileage China motos, (say 50,000 km) it's rather difficult to know what the long term effects or financial benefits of car oil is. It would be interesting to have a few motorcycle taxis run various brands and blends and then tear down the engines after a couple years for a comparison.

That said, I'm a little puzzled with folks that live in free market economies and have access to perfectly good motorcycle oil at reasonable prices. I agree with CC when he talks about lack of choice in the wilds of China, but hey, I just bought 4 quarts of PJ1 Silverfire 4-Stroke Premium in Hong Kong for $27.00 USD. Perfectly good stuff for my QingQi and Galaxy motos, less than $7.00 USD per oil change, and I can sleep well not worrying about having the wrong kind of oil floating around my crankcase. Heck, even most of the Wall-marts, Metro, and Carrefour stores here in China have Shell Petroleum Motorcycle oil for $7.00 USD per liter.

I do pay about $100.00 USD for the good stuff in my V-Strom, but again, it's probably because I'm brainwashed into thinking that she deserves a high quality synthetic motorcycle oil. And I don't really trust the local brands, as I have seen what they put in the milk here, so I can't imagine what they do to oil. I have tried local oil like the red shell in my car and it usually comes out like something from Starbucks, thin and black with foam on top after only 5000 kilometers, so again, I usually pick up a gallon of whatever import is on sale at Wall-mart etc.

Just my 2 cents... the kind of people that read these threads aren't usually going to suffer from oil issues as they actually maintain they're bikes and frequently change their oil. When I did my first USA tour back before I knew anything about motorcycles, I ran 18,000 miles on one change of Golden Spectro motorcycle oil and that bike was still running fine after I sold it with 45,000 miles. Was it the oil... who knows Moral of the story is that I was very poor but I got 4 times the life out of oil that was 4 times the price of the cheap stuff. Discount the labor and oil filters, and I probably saved money by running very expensive oil.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[davidqc]

I know a guy who swears by Silkothene. Heck, he uses just about every product they make. In fact I'm sure he anoints himself in the stuff every Sunday.

I don't think it's a matter of one oil is 'better' than another oil as in say car oils are not as good or are better than bike oils. It's just a matter of producing an oil to meet differing operating conditions (e.g. moving surface separation under load, heat dissipation, longevity, viscocity alteration with temperature change).

Oil for a sewing machine has different properties than oils used in say marine and aerojet engines. Fancy engines need fancy oils. All a mater of the application. Horses for courses as it were. That's why I use simple plain mineral oil for me bike (changed every 1,000km) and fancy synthetic stuff for the car (chnaged every 28,800km).

But of course, beware of snake oil in an alluring can!

[humanbeing]

...
I have tried local oil like the red shell in my car and it usually comes out like something from Starbucks, thin and black with foam on top after only 5000 kilometers, so again, I usually pick up a gallon of whatever import is on sale at Wall-mart etc.
Cheers!
ChinaV

These "red" local brand is SF ONLY,
http://www.sinopec.com/products_serv...asoline_eng_o/
http://www.kunlunlube.com.cn/03product_kl.asp
even local cabbie don't use it Wait a minute, unless bought in gas station, it maybe also a FAKE. TIC

[hugemoth]

I've always used regular old automotive oil in all my bikes and have never had a problem. That's over 40 years, close to 1 million miles, bikes from 50cc to Goldwing. As long as the oil bottle doesn't state that it contains "friction modifiers" it'll work just fine. For the last few years I've been using Shell Rotella 15/40 for diesel engines because of a quirk with old Goldwings where oil sometimes seeps into the downhill cylinders when parked on the sidestand. For some reason Rotella doesn't get past the rings.

Q

[stevecb]

Regarding breaking in information, have a read here: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Very interesting stuff, I used the same method on my bike and it seems fine (had it for 6 months).

[ChinaV]

Regarding breaking in information, have a read here: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Very interesting stuff, I used the same method on my bike and it seems fine (had it for 6 months).

Read that article before and it makes a lot of sense, but he's pretty specific about its application being for modern, advanced engine designs. Most of the China moto's are using 20+ year old technology and manufacturing methods so I wouldn't go pushing the bike too hard when it's fresh out of the crate. I wonder if the honed crosshatch pattern he talks about is used in our motos? Probably nothing wrong with giving it a few healthy rips through the rev range and I definitely agree with changing the oil after the first 20 minutes.

I did break in my V-Strom using his method because several mechanics used to tell me to "break it in just like you ride it" and his article seems to prove their theory.

Cheers!
ChinaV

[slabo]

Exactly what i was thinking. I heard this about modern engines not needing the traditional slow break in first 5000 km. I will buy a can of 10-40 car oil and change after first ride.
On a motorcycle, is the oil filter changed like on a car? I remember i did change the oil filter on my VLX 400 Honda. How about on the Shineray Long March?
Back home i had a mechanic that i trusted, i did not worry much about the bike. Here in China i have learned to do everything by myself. If i want to get something done properly that is. So i have to start learning.

[ZMC888]

I just run 10-40 winter, 20-50 summer, mineral, no problems, elf, castrol and Shell seem fine. I'm not keen on the Yamalube or Honda offerings, or local cheapo stuff. I can't see any advantage in terms of performance with synthetic or semi-synthetic oils certainly with Chinese made singles and twins that do not rev over 10,000 rpm, although with higher revving sports bikes it seems obvious that synthetic oils are superior. There is however longer time between oil changes with synthetic oils as the oils seem to beak down slower. IMO doing hot oil changes and doing them earlier is more important than anything else. I'm often inclined to spend money buying imported mineral like Repsol.rather than synthetic.

Many of the smaller Honda based engines do not have oil filters, so I always change oil at 1,500 kms with a 233/234cc and 1,000kms with a 125/150cc bike. Maybe that is a little early, but not taking chances and a very dusty environment around here. Small Suzuki based engines can go longer between changes having oil filters.