Harley-Davidson in China

**euphonius** · 06-01-2010, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by sabertooth_buterfly

I just noticed the luggage caring capacity on the front, that’s not a motard that’s the enduro model.

Now that was a sabertoothed smackdown! LOL!! I'll never again mistake a microenduro for a micromotard, especially if the luggage is pink with a Mickey Mouse logo!

**bikerdoc** · 06-01-2010, 08:23 AM

while I agree to a certain extent here with some of the comments regards to many of the bikes that are being bought in PRC and the purposes and use for which they have been bought by certain sectors of those buyers I think there's one aspect not being given enough consideration. It is simply that if one want's to buy a quality product motorcycle that is not going to break down in the middle of gawd knows where, then there are really few limited options here. The way I see it is simple, if one likes fairly sizeable displacement motorcycles (as I and loads of others do) then what real options exist in PRC.
1. Buy a illegally imported grey market bike, that may have been stolen from HK, is landed in Shenzhen and then has either a new or copied identity. Sometimes the histories of said motrobikes can be suspect so beware! is paramount with this kind of purchase. Not exactly 100% comforting, but the positive side is that the prices are fairly realistic.
2. Buy a fully legal bike that has a well deserved reputation for build quality, reliability etc. and that limits ones options, to the likes of HD, BMW and Ducati (more are likely to follow, but until they do this is it for now). I for one would like to have many more choices, but hey there are more today than there used to be here. While these brands are expensive, at least I know what I'm going to buying.
3. Buy a Chines brand.... um big bike. Hmmm hold on just how many 600cc+ bikes are there that are made by Chinese manufacturers, um let me see... one? Seems only the JH600 fits my criteria. Now if it wasn't for sites like this and others I'd be sceptical as hell to buy such a bike.

Perhaps I have some prejudice (though I been here far too long to not see incompetence all around me, that is cleverly coated as something it is not). Like many here (Chinese and foreigners alike) most of us know the issues concerning QA/QC and all the ISO, TQM mantra that companies claim to have, but demonstrate little of, especially Chinese manufacturers. Thats partly why many Chinese will buy a foreign brand over a local brand, and can you blame them... personally I don't!

**bikerdoc** · 06-01-2010, 08:37 AM

So my point above is, while granted some people will buy some of these at times ill suited bikes for use in mainland China because of brand prestige, exclusivity etc., some will buy because they've the purchasing power to do so, something they didn't have not so long ago. Also they now have access to brands from which they were excluded and never had available only a few years back. Perhaps even more importantly, they want a quality/reliable product which they know hasn't had corners cut -there are no inferior parts etc, that will still be usable and desirable years from now, is that any different than some of us want elsewhere. At the end of the day what other choices do they have. Not many.

**euphonius** · 06-01-2010, 08:48 AM

well, yes, all three options basically suck. but for those of us who are not made of money or not oblivious to unacceptable risks, option 3 sucks the least, which explains my JH600.

things certainly cannot get worse (knock wood), and could get better. to wit, in category 2, there's a recent addition to BMW, H-D and Ducati. Benelli has launched in Shanghai and Beijing, courtesy of Benelli's new Chinese owner Qianjiang Motors...

Benelli China
Benelli in Wikipedia

And I heard this interesting rumor in the Ducati shop on Sunday: Chunfeng Motors, aka CFMoto.cn, is planning a dual sport with a 650cc twin. I see from their website that they run their quads on a 650. Anyone else know anything about this project? The Ducati guy seemed to think this would not be just for export, but he didn't know much else.

And surely Loncin could stretch that BMW 650 thumper IPR into what Beijing now likes to call an "indigenous innovation" and launch a fresh ride of its own. I did meet a Loncin exec out in Sichuan. Mebbe I'll give him a shout...

**euphonius** · 06-01-2010, 08:55 AM

There are quite a few reports in Chinese that Chunfeng will launch a 650 twin this year...

amazing the things you could do with one!

**ChinaV** · 06-01-2010, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdoc

though I been here far too long to not see incompetence all around me, that is cleverly coated as something it is not

And I thought I was the only cynical one here... I must agree that the Cmoto industry takes incompetence to a whole new level. But, if it was any other way, we probably wouldn't want to be here. I take comfort in consistent chaos.

And regarding the topic of HD's, I just talked to a friend this morning that has 600,000 miles on his (yes six hundred thousand miles) and he's only on the second motor. Nothing wrong with Harley's

.

Cheers!
ChinaV

**ZMC888** · 06-01-2010, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by euphonius

your comment about the appropriateness of CBRs and other big-displacement street bikes in China. Of those 11 bikes you've listed, how many are actually with you in Zibo? And what do you ride most of the time in China?

Euphonius the bikes on my sig are ones I've owned or long term rentals, just a list to give people an idea of my riding history. I only ride the Regal Raptor 250 here. If I had a Yamaha RD350 I wouldn't go any where near any of the rest, or maybe a ride on the 2000 Honda CB400 super four if I were taking the wife on a longer tour!

**bikerdoc** · 06-02-2010, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by euphonius

well, yes, all three options basically suck. but for those of us who are not made of money or not oblivious to unacceptable risks, option 3 sucks the least, which explains my JH600.
things certainly cannot get worse (knock wood), and could get better. to wit, in category 2, there's a recent addition to BMW, H-D and Ducati. Benelli has launched in Shanghai and Beijing, courtesy of Benelli's new Chinese owner Qianjiang Motors...
Benelli China
Benelli in Wikipedia
And I heard this interesting rumor in the Ducati shop on Sunday: Chunfeng Motors, aka CFMoto.cn, is planning a dual sport with a 650cc twin. I see from their website that they run their quads on a 650. Anyone else know anything about this project? The Ducati guy seemed to think this would not be just for export, but he didn't know much else.
And surely Loncin could stretch that BMW 650 thumper IPR into what Beijing now likes to call an "indigenous innovation" and launch a fresh ride of its own. I did meet a Loncin exec out in Sichuan. Mebbe I'll give him a shout...

Well I also "heard" Chunfeng aka CFMoto might manufacture a bigger engined motorbike, but as yet it appears as only a rumour. So to try to make some sense of that I have arranged a colleague to call some contact at Chunfeng to ask. I'll post back the reply later when I have the answer. It's likely that Loncin will be instrumental in manufacturing or assisting to manufacture a motorcycle powered by a 650cc single cylinder engine not too dissimilar to the one that powers the G650GS. It's not a question of if, but when. I guess we can say watch this ____________ space.

**euphonius** · 06-02-2010, 03:21 AM

Ah, nothing like a good motor mystery!

I'll try ringing the guys here in Shanghai at AVL GmbH, the Austrian firm that designed the JH600's thumping heart.

Click here to see AVL's contribution to the JH600

cheers!

**moilami** · 06-02-2010, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdoc

It's likely that Loncin will be instrumental in manufacturing or assisting to manufacture a motorcycle powered by a 650cc single cylinder engine not too dissimilar to the one that powers the G650GS. It's not a question of if, but when.

I am waiting keenly for that! Rotax assembled by Loncin in China is a much praised engine.