JH600 stalling

[Barry]

I'm now a former prospective JH600-A purchaser. In fact I find it amazing. Jialing think that they should become the 'Honda of China'! They are just losing future customers and damaging their long term reputation.

Even if you still where a prospective purchaser, you would probably wait until there are several JH600-A's with serious mileage and no stalling issues anymore!

I'm still happy with my JH600, and fortunate not to be experiencing stalling issues like some others do. Just sad to see my only Beijing JH600-buddy turning his back on his JH600's!

Apparently he doesn't like the replacement I suggested either:

[bikerdoc]

I'm now a former prospective JH600-A purchaser. In fact I find it amazing. Jialing think that they should become the 'Honda of China'! They are just losing future customers and damaging their long term reputation.

Ditto!
Another issue is that many of the Chinese motorcycle manufacturers care little of any the after sales service and support. Many do not offer any inservice technical training for any of the sales/distributors mechanics. CFMoto do have a such a course and one of the mechanics I visit has the CFMOto Jetmax Authorised course attendance plaque displayed on his wall, but even he takes a few liberties and short cuts at times which has made me shake my head in bewilderment on more than one instance.

Recently I complained about some hardly audible popping (backfiring) on low revs when decelerating that I asked him to connect his ECU management module to so as he could perhaps alter the fuel/air ratio mix. He does a few things, checks and cleans the air filter box, checks the air filter element (foam - which he maintains should not have a light oil impregnated into it as I'd done with the first couple of filters; to which I still beg to differ). After not being able to find the cause of the popping so he decides to cut the end of the engine breather hose which admittedly was full of oil (hose is like 10cm long) which proceeds to dump a small amount of oil on the workshop floor. No issue there since the floor is black with dirt and grime. But now I have a bike that never dropped 1ml of oil anywhere, now dropping 5-10mls after every ride. I can't park the bike just anywhere like I used to (eg. hotel lobbies etc). I regret even bringing it up with him to look since the popping sound one can't here well at all since the muffler is so baffled up. Now to replace that hose I have to remove the seat, the underseat storage compartment etc. a bloody big job. Yet on the other hand this same mechanic did a great job making up a flange and connection for the aftermarket muffler I wanted to attach to the Jetmax to give it a richer/louder exhaust sound. It was after fitting this and riding it for a week or more that I noticed this popping backfiring. I've since gone back to the stock muffler.


Going back to the foam air filter, it is widely known in places like OZ that foam air filters should and are always provided a small light oil to impregnate deep into the fibers as it is this that actually filters out the fine grit particles and the like from the air. Take the XT1200Z Super Tenere, the model for the Australian market has been fitted with a reuseable foam filter element in place of the standard air filter by Yamaha, for this very reason. The recommendation is to use a light grade oil on the foam air filter element.

Sorry a bit of topic, but just serves to show that TIC and the locals won't believe there is an alternative and sometimes more ideal way (for a good reason), unless it comes from another locals mouth/brain. What gives with that?

How does that saying go again...'you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy!'

[euphonius]

...Do I think Jialing is responsible for fixing 2.0 stalling problem. Of course, yes! Does Jialing think they are responsible for them? No, not according to what I heard this morning, especially for those bikes out of warranty, even after their realizing that it is also a safety issue.
...

Jialing are serious frigging wankers, and don't deserve to sell a single bike anywhere. As an owner, I can say this really clouds my sunny day.

[MotoKai]

Nonetheless the JH600 is still a fucking great bike for all your EPIC RIDES across China.

- Yes, I am drinking the Jialing Cool-Aid

- Yes, I did say Epic after I vowed to take that over-used word out of my vocabulary. This was the FIRST and LAST time you'll hear this crappy word from me!

- Thanks to Milton, Eric & LZD to get to this point with Jialing to agree to swap-out the ECU. I'm cool with paying the costs for components (TIC). Actually it's a bargain - my buddy just got his Ducati back from the SH service shop and spent twice this amount just for a few basic parts/tweakings on his Monster. After all is said and griped, I am glad to have a Chinese bike - and the JH600 is the best [value] bike for the roads that China throws at you!!

The JH600 does it all: S-Roads, G-Roads, Expressways, Dirt Paths, Mud Roads, High-Traffic, Low-Traffic, Grasslands, 1-up, 2-Up, Long-Haul, Short-Haul, Road Construction, Wet/Dry.

骑车乐趣 (Click here) Fahrvergnugen in Chinese! (Milton in Zhejiang)

See Ride Reports Below

[MotoKai]

And if you missed the earlier post of JH600 links in this thread - here you go:

Impressions
My New JH600Buckin' Bronco -- breaking in my JH600 in rural Sichuan
JH600 impression
JH600 Impression (2)
The first JH600 in Nanjing?

Ride Reports
Zhejiang to Fujian - JH600 home ride
Shenyang - Mohe
Yunnan Ride 2010
Hubei, Sichuan and the Three Gorges of Yangtze River
Weekend Trip From Shanghai -- QianDaoHu
Rapeseed Blossom
Motokai's Inner Mongolia Ride 2011
Jialing riders visit the West of Beijing
National Day Ride 2010 (Anhui + SW Zhejiang)
JH600 - Wet and Muddy in Fujian
Slabbing to Moganshan (and back)
My first mountain run-JH600
JH600 Off-Road: West Suzhou Tank Grounds Run
Solo Ride to Shaoxing & Xitang (Mid-Autumn Festival 2010)

Mods
My New JH600
Shanghai Muffler Man -- modding my JH600
Jialing JH600 muffler & pipe upgrade

Other
Jialing JH600 sidecar uncovered
What The Hell Is That? (JH600 Experiences)
Jialing JH600 in Brazil
Jialing JH600 Parts/Prices

[998S]

Yes, I am drinking the Jialing Cool-Aid

They must have poored a lot of that stuff in you recently

[bikerdoc]

Amazed, No! TIC. Astounded, No! TIC. Bemused, Yes, but still TIC!!!

That's the problem, most Chinese manufacturers rely on the fact that the few vocal enough given time will settle down, tow the party line and learn to except that incompetence is acceptable. Put it another way, in any other circumstances would any of you with a bike from another manufacturer that was behaving in a way similar to the JH600 find this whole episode acceptable? I doubt it, as I wouldn't yet, here we are, someone happy enough to be offered a fix at the customers expense. That's just what Jialing and the like hope for, is a dumbed down client/customer. My advice for those suffering from this stalling issue, take the JH600 down to Chongqing, park it outside the Jialing factory, pour a litre or two of fuel over it, and throw a match to it. Make sure to issue a press release beforehand with a press invite to the event, including the foreign reporters that are always up for reporting exclusive real China news

[Lao Jia Hou]

There was another thread started that claimed the "fix" was to disconnect the camshaft sensor.

Those following this thread might recall that this "fix" was what JL recommended to me, last month, for my two-wheeled JH600. I refused to accept this ridiculous "fix."

One thing I have not posted before, was that when my three-wheeled JH-600B began its serious stalling issues (last year), the Beijing Service Center "fixed" it by disconnecting this camshaft position sensor. At that time, the Service Center told me that it had replaced a sensor, but I later discovered that was not true - all it had done was disconnect the sensor. That was one of the many times I had been lied to.

Anyways, it never eliminated the stalling problem, it only reduced its severity. Over time (and a couple thousand more kms), the serious stalling issue on my JH-600B returned, complete with the disconnected camshaft position sensor. Hence, this is definitely NOT a repair.

Because of my experience with the three-wheeled "disconnect the sensor" fix, I refused to accept JL's identical solution with my two-wheeled JH600, recently proposed by CQ and BJ.

Frankly, I think us JH600 owners have become so desensitized & frustrated by Jialing, that we are kinda hoping for a simple, "silver bullet" fix. In essence, we are grabbing at straws.

If Jialing had made the Ford Pinto, it would probably be suggesting we "fix" the problem by zip-tying fluffy pillows on our rear bumper.

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My next comment concerning the JH600 - I agree, it is a great bike when it is running properly. The problem is ... it isn't running properly. And it appears that JL won't help us have our bikes running properly.

JL has obviously known for a very long time that there was a serious stalling problem, and that is why it changed the "old" 2010 models into the "new" 2011 models.

To now claim that warranty will not cover the assumed "fix" of replacing the ECU with the 3.0 version, etc, is completely ridiculous and FULLY demonstrates that JL is just trying to screw us. They were selling these "old" bikes in late 2010, fully aware that they were faulty. It is obvious that JL was lying to us, time and again, as a delay tactic to get us out of our warranty periods.

As for the argument that it is a relatively low cost ... well, in the four wheeled world back home, one of my cars is an expensive exotic. Repairing that car is prohibitively expensive, when compared to a Honda car I also own/use. Simply because the Honda is much less expensive to repair doesn't in any way excuse Honda from being responsible for faulty manufacturing. My argument is that Jialing is not excused from its responsibility of manufacturing a faulty (and, frankly, UNSAFE) motorcycle because its parts are comparatively cheap.

And, yes, I have had lots of fun on each of my JH600s when they were running properly. Similarly, I am sure lots of people enjoyed Ford Pintos before being tragically converted into crispy critters.

I don't want to be a bug on some bus grill because my JH600 stalled at a bad time.

Come on JL, quit the BS and step up to the plate. IF the 3.0 ECU does indeed "fix" the stalling problem, and IF the 3.0 ECU can be accessed and reflashed, then show us what kind of company you are. If you really want to be one of the big players in the market, then give up this ridiculous proprietary attitude, and open up the ECU to everyone. All the other big boys do it. Don't be afraid. We won't hurt you.

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Finally, JL's "technicians" canceled the Beijing meeting this last weekend - they were probably too shy to meet more foreigners after their Shanghai meeting.

Well, there are still the forthcoming motorcycle shows where us JH600 owners can stage our own "display" for both Chinese & foreign observers. The advantage we have is ... we speak English, and French, and German, and Spanish, and Portuguese, and so on. No need for filtered translations with prospective buyers.

[TB-Racing]

IF the 3.0 ECU does indeed "fix" the stalling problem, and IF the 3.0 ECU can be accessed and reflashed.

G'Day,

Just curious, how much $$$$'s / RMB would a new JL ECU and reflash cost?

[euphonius]

G'Day,

Just curious, how much $$$$'s / RMB would a new JL ECU and reflash cost?

While I fully support LJH's view that these costs should be entirely borne by Jialing, the answer to your question might be: About what BMW, Ducati or H-D China charges for an annual service check and oil change.

cheers!