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  1. #1 JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru milton's Avatar
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    Hello fellow JH600 riders,
    Do you guys have problem with your JH600 stalling sporadically? With mine it usually takes place when I downshift from 3rd gear to 2nd or when i first cold start it. When starting it cold I have to give it a bit of gas to maintain the engine revolution above 1800 rev or it will stall. Sometimes it stalls on me when I wait at the traffic light in neutral. This gets pretty annoying and can be rather dangerous sometimes. Once I was forced to abort a left turn attempt due to stalling and almost run over by a 4-wheeler behind me.

    The local Shanghai service guy told me that this is a common problem with all JH600s and really not much I can do about it. "All single cylinder big bore has this same problem, including BMW's RS650". Is this an acceptable answer? Any feedback is appreciated.
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  2. #2 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Milton, I get both of these symptoms. With downshifting, it sometimes happens between 4th and 3rd too. I just pop the clutch in the lower gear and the engine quickly restarts. When I start cold, it typically dies once, but ONLY once. Once it warms up at idles reliably.

    These are known issues that are discussed in Chinese forums. And, yes, I've heard this explained as being typical of big-bore thumpers, including beemers. Last person who said this was a beemer owner, though I don't remember who it was.

    There's some possibility that this will be addressed with the Bosch firmware upgrade that is due in October. Have you heard anything from our Shanghai boys about how and when that upgrade will be distributed? Franki, in his JH600 Impression thread, said he went through three such upgrades, and each time it involved shipping the Engine Control Unit to Chongqing to be replaced. Be advised: The anti-theft circuitry is driven from the ECU as well, so we all need to make sure Jialing does not mix our ECUs up!

    EDIT: One more thing. I'm up to about 8k km on the clock, and have ridden in a lot of adverse conditions including deep mud and floodwaters that covered my feet on the pegs. Since then, my side-stand kill-switch circuit has been malfunctioning. Even with the stand up, I sometimes have to find neutral before the starter motor will engage, just as if the stand were down. This is quite an inconvenience. I expect the best solution is just to eliminate the switch so the engine starts regardless of which position the side stand is in.

    cheers!
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  3. #3 Re: JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru MotoKai's Avatar
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    I've had this happen a few times - not enough to say sporadically. When it has occurred, it's typically when downshifting (3 to 2 or 2 to 1), and while can be dangerous and not fun I do a quick electric restart with my right thumb and KEEP MOVING. Again, doesn't have often but I have noticed an increase since I changed to the Laser exhaust (lots of backfire with this puppy).

    I am wondering how the ECU upgrade can account for performance change with the exhaust change. Maybe the best bet is have the ECU fix and tweak done here in Shanghai with the electronics on the bike with its own unique mods and attributes considered.

    Any thoughts?
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  4. #4 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotoKai View Post
    I am wondering how the ECU upgrade can account for performance change with the exhaust change. Maybe the best bet is have the ECU fix and tweak done here in Shanghai with the electronics on the bike with its own unique mods and attributes considered.

    Any thoughts?
    Hey, MK, as far as I know the ECU upgrade is a black box thing, controlled totally by Bosch and merely purchased and implemented by Jialing. Not like tweaking a carb. Just slap it in and hope for the best. On/off. Yes/no.

    Any word on when this is coming?

    cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  5. #5 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Senior C-Moto Guru ZMC888's Avatar
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    Not saying this is the reason for the stalling, could be a contributory factor...but I talked to a guy a while ago who is a part factory owner in a fuel filter manufacturer here in Shandong from the US. According to him most Chinese fuel is not/not properly filtered by the Chinese fuel companies. He recommends that all car owners or motorcycle owners should use imported Bosch, K&N etc fuel filters to ensure smooth running of their machines, whether fuel injected or running a carburetor, that any gasoline based machine absolutely needs to be using an imported fuel filter. This idea is backed up I believe by Chinarider who with BMW Motorrad Germany have already found impurities in Chinese gasoline.

    He also suggests that using most Chinese fuel filters would be useless as most Chinese manufacturers are unaware about the micron-sized gaps required that should be used in fuel filters to filter particles effectively.

    If you have a good fuel filter please disregard this comment!
    Without consciousness, space and time are nothing; in reality you can take any time -- whether past or future -− as your new frame of reference. Death is a reboot that leads to all potentialities.
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  6. #6 Re: JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru milton's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the comments and suggestions.
    The idea of adopting an imported fuel filter may worth a try. Not so mechanically endowed, I am wondering if fuel filters come in standard sizes according to some spec and how I can match my JH600 with some Bosch or K&N products?

    About the ECU upgrade, I was told by our Shanghai boys that we need to ship our ECU unit to Chongqing for it. I believe that our key needs to be submitted as well so the factory can customize the anti-theft circuitry in the ECU individually. Originally they were talking about "sometimes in September" for this to happen. Haven't checked with them lately.

    By the way, 刘志东 plans to acquire a JH600 service computer for his "Shanghai service station", with which our upgrades probably can be carried out locally. Before that can happen, he needs to send Xiao Fan to Chongqing for a training lesson in order to be certified for operating that computer. Unfortunately the poor JH600 sales figure does not warrant Jialing offering many training lessons. Presently Xiao Fan is still waiting for the next yet-to-be-scheduled training lesson.
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  7. #7 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    I also experience the stalling upon initial start from time to time, but similarly find it goes away after I restart. Thereafter, it seems to idle just fine.

    Likewise, I have also commonly experienced stalls with downshifting (not sure which gears are most common, as it seems to be across them all). I have attributed it to quickly backing off the throttle and the ECU getting unexpected data - which then konks out the engine. It has been explained to me that the ECU might not be at fault, but rather substandard sensors & wiring sending flawed or interrupted info to the ECU ... which then kills the engine as a "protective feature". Right, it is not a flaw ... it is a "feature". I am not betting the farm that any ECU upgrade will solve the problem.

    I use the electric start to get going again, even mid-curve, which hasn't been a problem. I'm quite an old lady rider, at the best of times, and I am still getting used to the JH600's unique characteristics.

    I currently have a single BMW 650 back home, have owned a Yamaha XT550 single (the original single thumper), and a few other singles and don't recall this "feature". Senility, however, has its advantages - all memories are good ones!

    Nevertheless, despite the DSWCC ("dual-sport with Chinese characteristics"), I am still having a lot of fun with the bike.
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  8. #8 Re: JH600 stalling 
    grumpy old sod jape's Avatar
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    Huh, you guys are lucky! Complaining about little engine farts and stutters! My Kinlon never starts easily, however good the weather and fuel, and it runs unevenly with or without choke. But once it is warmed up ... nothing much improves, .
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  9. #9 Re: JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru TexasAggie's Avatar
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    My JH600 does the same thing as Lao Jia Hou and Euphonius. so far it has seemed to smooth out after it warms up. I also found 97 Sinopec seems to make it better. I know it often goes "stale" due to pricing but I figure I trade off in the fact the sediment has settled more. Anyway, it has not been huge issue for me but then again, my longest ride at one time has only been 375km.

    My Chang Jiang 750 runs with anything but I have been passed by people on bicycles so I am willing to trade up for the JH600 at this time.
    DT
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  10. #10 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    I've recently picked up my JH600B (sidecar) and its stalling problem is much more pronounced than my JH600. According to online forums, the culprit is most likely the ECU and this is what people say ...

    1) Clear the ECU fault codes
    2) Check all connections to/from the ECU and all sensors, especially the throttle sensor & idle control

    One guy said he swapped a JH600 ECU into a JH600B ... hmmmm, I don't know about that one.

    I've also enlisted the help of Jim Bryant, a local mechanical guru, and he suggested that it might be the knock-sensor getting confused with data from a thumper. Jim also recommended quality 97 fuel. He also suggested that the ECU be upgraded. The JH600B apparently has version 1.0.

    Additionally, a buddy of mine in Canada sponsors a motorcycle racing team, so I have the fortune of having access to his technical team. I spoke on the phone with a guy who heard my description of the problem (keep in mind, this is like doing a medical diagnosis over the phone). He told me a somewhat opposing view - that I should switch back to 93 octane, or even lower, and that unless the JH600 is a high compression engine, there would not be any advantage with higher octane fuel. In fact, he noted that IF the ECU mapping is designed for lower quality fuels in a single cylinder engine, a higher octane may actually be counter-productive (higher octane means less volatility, which means later ignition, but the ECU might be expecting an earlier ignition). He then began to explain it further, using really big & confusing words, so I came up with the excuse that my Skype account was running dry. But before we hung up, he also mentioned that the Error Codes need to be cleared. A very simple job IF the service centre has the electronics.

    I wonder what the army is doing? I doubt they'd be too happy with stalling motorcycles out on the battlefield.
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