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Thread: JH600 stalling

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  1. #11 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion regarding octane levels. With the one huge caveat that the bad tanks of gas that I've suffered were both 93 octane, I have not sensed any difference in actual performance from 93 to 97. Meaning that "good 93" seems to perform no worse than "good 97". So Lao Jia Huo's Canadian buddy's comments do ring true. Perhaps this is why these grades were called "regular" and "premium" back in the day (in the US, where I'm from, anyway). Is it possible that because it costs more, the 97 octane fuel gets a bit better filtering and handling during refining, while 93 is refined to a lesser level of purity?

    One belated suggestion regarding these stalling/backfire/ignition issues with the JH600: Upgrade to an Iridium plug. The Jialing stock plug is seriously inferior, and you'll get a palpable improvement in ignition with a better plug. Next step for me: An Iridium cable.

    Finally, any word from our friends in Chongqing about the ECU firmware upgrade? They've only ever told me "October", which now is just a couple days away. Anyone have it yet? Or heard of plans to release it? Might be worth a call to Lao Zhou or Tang Wei...

    cheers
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  2. #12 Re: JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru milton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphonius View Post
    ...Is it possible that because it costs more, the 97 octane fuel gets a bit better filtering and handling during refining, while 93 is refined to a lesser level of purity?
    cheers
    This notion that "97 octane fuel gets a bit better filtering and handling during refining" is a bit odd, don't you think. Just picture that big Laoban at the refinery telling himself: "Ha, now I get to produce this great 97 octane fuel, which will be expensive. I'd better filter it more so our customers can get their money's worth. This is my 为人民服务 (serve the people) time!" I kind of doubt it, not just because TIC. :-)
    I also upgraded my spark plug on my Jailing. It didn't do anything on the ECU issues, but was a noticeable improvement on the bike's performance overall. It runs much smoother on lower gears than previously.
    Havn't heard anything on the new ECU release. Don't believe that it will come out before the end of the big upcoming 10/1 holidays.
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  3. #13 Re: JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru milton's Avatar
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    Had a conversation with 刘志东 last night, Jialing's Shanghai contact. According to him, we should all stop holding our breadth for a revision of our ECU. Jialing just released the ECU 3.0 recently, for supporting which Jialing had to redesign the head block and a few other things (big and confusing words). All versions prior to 3.0 will not be able to upgrade due to the lack of hardware support. Jialing is not offering a hardware upgrade path for older JH600 either. So there you have it, we all have to live with our stalling problems forever.
    If there is any comfort in this, I was told that the new design and the matching software do indeed solve the stalling problem.
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  4. #14 Re: JH600 stalling 
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    Quote Originally Posted by milton View Post
    Jialing is not offering a hardware upgrade path for older JH600 either.
    Not offering means not possible at all?

    About a month or 2 ago when ordering parts I asked about the ECU and was told I would have to replace more parts than just the ECU and it would cost me about RMB 2000. However I have no idea what version they had at that time!
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  5. #15 Re: JH600 stalling 
    C-Moto Guru milton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Not offering means not possible at all?

    About a month or 2 ago when ordering parts I asked about the ECU and was told I would have to replace more parts than just the ECU and it would cost me about RMB 2000. However I have no idea what version they had at that time!
    Sounds like they probably were talking about this 3.0 thing. 刘志东 did not think it is advisable or even possible to upgrade due to extensive hardware changes to various parts of the bike. Also, RMB 2000 is a bit steep for fixing a problem which should not have been there in the first place.
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  6. #16 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Senior C-Moto Guru euphonius's Avatar
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    This is discouraging and vexing and annoying.

    I think we should form a picket line -- with our bikes -- outside the Bosch offices in China, wherever they are.

    I've tried in the past to contact the AVL people here in Shanghai, who co-designed the JH600 engine, but got no reply.

    Another source would be Tang Wei at Jialing. I'll ring him.
    jkp
    Shanghai
    2010 JH600 "Merkin Muffley" (in Shanghai)
    2000 KLR650 "Feezer Ablanalp" (in California)
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  7. #17 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Something doesn't seem right.

    I think the issue was hardware related, FIRST, and then the software was accommodated to the redesigned/replaced hardware. It doesn't make any sense that a software upgrade would require different engine components. I do know that there was a faulty throttle sensor sending confusing info to the ECU in the earlier versions - the Jialing-recommended "fix" was to disconnect the sensor!

    One thing I sorely miss about home is a genuine, decent, well-equipped shop with factory trained personnel. A decent tuner with the correct computer & plug-ins should be able to remap the ECU to anything we want.
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  8. #18 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    ** UPDATE **

    Both of my JH600s are stalling, persistently, in all conditions. I own the 2-wheeled "A" and the 3-wheeled "B".

    Both are 2010 models.

    As it stands, the bikes are simply unsafe to ride, given the ridiculous amount of stalling. They stall everywhere (traffic lights, while shifting up/down, while pulling in the clutch, when slowing down, etc). And although they are usually easy to restart, this is a problem that is completely unacceptable. Imagine leaning through a curve, then hitting your kill switch. Imagine getting ready to pass, shifting down to 4th, and hitting your kill switch. Changing lanes and backing off the throttle - imagine hitting your kill switch. That is exactly how BOTH bikes are behaving.

    Very recently, I took the "B" into the Jialing Service Center in Beijing and demanded that the problem be fixed.

    EVERYTHING was replaced - new sensors (genuine Bosch); complete throttle body assembly; the decompression valve & cam; the entire ECU unit; new plug & wire; and so on, and so on, and so on. The bike was essentially brand new, again, with presumably updated parts.

    Result? It has improved the stalling, but it still stalls. Instead of 2 or 3 stalls per km, my mileage is about 1 stall every 3 kms.

    I've spoken to some owners of the new 2011 "A" model and they are experiencing stalls, albeit uncommonly. Interestingly, that was my experience when my 2010 bikes were new. The stalling really started showing up after a few thousand kms.

    And, before anyone claims "it's the rider" (typical Chinese logic), it should be noted that I lent my JH600B sidecar to Jim Bryant (owner of jimbo's classic bmw sidecars) for a prolonged test (a few months) ... and his overwhelming comment was ... "this thing stalls way too much. It would certainly be a safety issue."

    So, Jialing ... are you listening? Probably not. Jialing, do you care? Most certainly not.

    By the way, I had my "B" up for sale (knowing that I was having the entire bike redone to solve the stalling problem), but since it isn't adequately repaired, it is coming off the market. I'm probably going to research putting a Japanese engine in it. Because, aside from this crappy Jialing stalling issue, the JH600s are really fun bikes.
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  9. #19 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Senior C-Moto Guru bigdamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lao Jia Hou View Post
    ** UPDATE **

    Both of my JH600s are stalling, persistently, in all conditions. I own the 2-wheeled "A" and the 3-wheeled "B".

    Both are 2010 models.

    As it stands, the bikes are simply unsafe to ride, given the ridiculous amount of stalling. They stall everywhere (traffic lights, while shifting up/down, while pulling in the clutch, when slowing down, etc). And although they are usually easy to restart, this is a problem that is completely unacceptable. Imagine leaning through a curve, then hitting your kill switch. Imagine getting ready to pass, shifting down to 4th, and hitting your kill switch. Changing lanes and backing off the throttle - imagine hitting your kill switch. That is exactly how BOTH bikes are behaving.

    Very recently, I took the "B" into the Jialing Service Center in Beijing and demanded that the problem be fixed.

    EVERYTHING was replaced - new sensors (genuine Bosch); complete throttle body assembly; the decompression valve & cam; the entire ECU unit; new plug & wire; and so on, and so on, and so on. The bike was essentially brand new, again, with presumably updated parts.

    Result? It has improved the stalling, but it still stalls. Instead of 2 or 3 stalls per km, my mileage is about 1 stall every 3 kms.

    I've spoken to some owners of the new 2011 "A" model and they are experiencing stalls, albeit uncommonly. Interestingly, that was my experience when my 2010 bikes were new. The stalling really started showing up after a few thousand kms.

    And, before anyone claims "it's the rider" (typical Chinese logic), it should be noted that I lent my JH600B sidecar to Jim Bryant (owner of jimbo's classic bmw sidecars) for a prolonged test (a few months) ... and his overwhelming comment was ... "this thing stalls way too much. It would certainly be a safety issue."

    So, Jialing ... are you listening? Probably not. Jialing, do you care? Most certainly not.

    By the way, I had my "B" up for sale (knowing that I was having the entire bike redone to solve the stalling problem), but since it isn't adequately repaired, it is coming off the market. I'm probably going to research putting a Japanese engine in it. Because, aside from this crappy Jialing stalling issue, the JH600s are really fun bikes.
    Husqvarna's had/have a problem with there fuel pumps sounds a little similar.Not saying that is the problem but reading up on this and searching the web site might help.There fuel pumps used to sometimes come loose in the tank and cause stalling.

    http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/201...r-is-it.19613/
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  10. #20 Re: JH600 stalling 
    Danger, Will Robinson! Lao Jia Hou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdamo View Post
    Husqvarna's had/have a problem with there fuel pumps sounds a little similar.Not saying that is the problem but reading up on this and searching the web site might help.There fuel pumps used to sometimes come loose in the tank and cause stalling.

    http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/201...r-is-it.19613/
    Thanks for the info. It is definitely worthwhile learning about the myriad of possibilities.

    One problem facing us JH600'rs is that our bikes are "under warranty" (well, ok, take that at face value). We can't yet rip the things apart. At present, we must rely on the expertise & willingness of Jialing to address this serious issue.

    In fairness to the Beijing Service Centre, it appears to have tried everything possible to help me out. But it, as well, is constrained by what options it has.

    Jialing (Chongqing) needs to step up to the plate. We'll see what happens in the coming week, or so.
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